Question:

Hi On, You seem like a very nice and very well informed (about IBD) person, but you’re missing a couple of things in this discussion because a)you’re a newbie to the ng and don’t know everyone’s background yet, and b)your English, while lightyears better than my command of any foreign language, isn’t quite at the level to grasp all the subtleties of some of the posts.  NA’s been around for months, he picks one person at a time to use as target practice and follows them around relentlessly trying to drive them off the ng.  Sometimes he uses blatant personal attacks, other times he’s more subtle and pretends to be solicitous.  The Turner/NA post you’re defending was, to anyone who’s been reading his posts for months, not an attempt to help Alan out but a thinly disguised attack. The most important rule on this ng is to always be nice, never flame. People come here for support and emotional succor, they need a refuge from the pain this illness is causing them in their lives.  Flaming, even in response to the flames of others, is against the ng charter. Did you notice the appearance and subsequent disappearance of Lisa Quinn on the thread about MAP?  She’s new, and the flames drove her off, and now she might miss advice which could really help her. I don’t know why Alan took Mr. Turner’s flamebait, he’s been very good about not doing so in the past, but we’re all human and slip up once in awhile.  You have shown yourself to be human too by not reading the ng charter in advance and refraining from flaming, not to mention not following standard Usenet protocol of reading a ng for awhile to learn about people like Alan, NA and Martin before posting replies.  No biggie, like I said, it’s obvious you’re an intelligent, nice guy who’s capable of engaging in debate without flaming or responding to flames, and as you continue to read the ng I’m sure you’ll figure out who’s who.  I’ll even bet that both you and Alan can debate each other respectfully- all you both have to do is not give Mr. Turner what he wants by letting him set the tone. Just in case you missed it before, here’s the ng charter: What is Alt.support.crohns-colitis? Alt.support.crohns-colitis was created in early 1994 as a forum where people suffering from ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s Disease, and irritable bowel syndrome can share their everyday struggles with these illnesses, as well as discuss medicines, treatments, surgery, diet, health care providers, related illnesses, and anything else anyone can think of that relates to these diseases.  In other words, this is the online equivalent of a support group, which means that no question is stupid and no condition embarrassing here.  It also means we’re all here to help each other out, so please be nice, be polite, and no flaming. Discussions of all types of medicine- conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever- are welcome here; however, any person discussing a potential remedy which he or she also sells must explicitly begin the "Subject" header of their post with the word "AD" or "ADVERTISEMENT" in all caps, regardless of whether or not they profit from such sales.  Spamming is expressly forbidden as violating the rules of netiquette as well as those of this newsgroup.  Finally, please keep in mind that no one knows what causes these illnesses, no one’s come up with a cure, and we need all the help we can get. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Always look at the bright side of life…. As an unappointed advocate for NA if I may say ‘objection!..’  NA was merely trying to suggest that the material that Alan is coming with is very interesting , and should he place it in an organized form in a web site, it would win plenty of creditability and maybe more people would take the research results he comes with more seriously. (A constructive suggestion…). Sorry for sticking my nose… On Elpeleg By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

On, it’s all a question of credibility.  If that recent thread was all I had ever read of the ng I would feel as you feel.  In fact, that’s a big problem with flaming, people lose credibility doing it, and as a result I don’t understand why people who have serious arguments to make do it.  The thing is, as I said in the other post to you, Alan has built up a big bank of credibility on this ng over the years by remaining calm, reasonable and not flaming- he even toned down Mike considerably over MAP by arguing with him that MAP was *not* the be-all and end-all of CD treatment.  People here are giving him the benefit of the doubt because not all that credibility can be lost by one mistake, especially when that mistake is taking flamebait. OTOH, Mr. Turner has, by flaming, baiting, stooping to personal attacks when proven wrong by someone, and yes even using some of the fallacious debating techniques he derides in others, lost most of his credibility with this particular audience – which is a shame as he posts a lot of worthwhile material too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your a strange one On. You’ll attack Alan Kennedy when he posts information on Crohn’s research and his view about where we are at with this disease. When Alans bonafides have been known to this group for several years. Hi John Science is not football Its not about being nice or not being nice… But if you are to put your self in a position of a judge and  give grades for who was the nicest one in the discussion…and you are to convince us that Alan is an innocent lamb…and everyone that disagrees with him is a bad woolf, I could only recommend you to go back to the discussion (MAP vs. genetics) from day one and read  it. I for one think that you are not looking at the things objectivly. But then, you’ll stick up for NA who in my view is a "loose canon" and I think thats being as nice as I can be regarding NA. I think it’s obvious that Alan’s got so much on his plate that to keep his website up to date is getting a bit ‘picky’ Again you are coming with the ‘who is the nicest one..’, I understand it… and fully respect and accept it, after all we are in some sort of support group. And people should be nice with eachother in a support group, now let me ask you something… how would you respond if I am to suggest that you are a confused, ignorant, inhuman, immature, anonymouse agitator? John you seem to have  a strong opinion of Alan being the nice guy… and NA the bad guy… Alan is the poor victim and NA is the victimizer… and you are fighting for saving the victim from their bad bad.. victimizer. You reckon it may be possible for you to try looking at things from a different angle? If Alan is to inform the world about his work, would you agree that this support group is actualy a drop in the oceane?  do you know how many IBD mailing lists exist out there? I found hundreds of them! some of them have thousands of members! But than again everything that NA says is wrong… because he is not nice. (by the way it doesnt cost anything today to run a complete website free of charge except few hours work, and i am certain that www.crohns.org would be happy to help Alan in starting such a site… or maybe you and the other fans could even contribute?). I just can’t work out where your coming from! Well since you have not asked I would answer in my culture a person that phrases another person as a ‘confused, ignorant, inhuman, immature, anonymouse agitator’ in a scientifical discussion.. is not taken seriously, but than again we all come from different places and cultures.. just as you suggested.  So maybe like you suggest its all a geographical problem and what one sees from here you can not see from there…  ;) Cheers, John H(I) Always look at the bright side of life…. As an unappointed advocate for NA if I may say ‘objection!..’  NA was merely trying to suggest that the material that Alan is coming with is very interesting , and should he place it in an organized form in a web site, it would win plenty of creditability and maybe more people would take the research results he comes with more seriously. (A constructive suggestion…). Sorry for sticking my nose… On Elpeleg By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

I personally think the comment was flame bait. . . . but, then, that is just my opinion. . . Rebecca <:-) foil hat on —-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

Epeleg and NA are cut from the same cloth i believe…..If someone has something to say that doesn’t coincide to there way of thinking they will try to bash it…   eg. I’m not for immune suppression…. I believe in building the Immune system up…we were given an immune system to protect us from diseases and whoever is responsible for it i believe he knew what he was doing. That fly’s right into the face of what NA seems to believe in so he tries to bash it whenever he can, even though most people who do good usually strengthen there immune ssystem by diet, nutrition, and exercise when fighting chronic diseases. Epeleg doesn’t believe in Companies being fair to there workers so he calls USANA a scam.  He much rather see the people on top making the money as compared to the people who do the work.  He likes the Corporate infrastucture where the CEo’s make more in a year then the employees will see in a lifetime! USANA’s CEO and founder Dr. Myron Wentz receives no wages or bonuses from USANA and yet he still has the audacity to call it a scam. But you won’t see him back up what he says…At least I haven’t. Ken.W  7 Years Med Free! Proud member of the USANA Family

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your a strange one On. You’ll attack Alan Kennedy when he posts information on Crohn’s research and his view about where we are at with this disease. When Alans bonafides have been known to this group for several years. But then, you’ll stick up for NA who in my view is a "loose canon" and I think thats being as nice as I can be regarding NA. I think it’s obvious that Alan’s got so much on his plate that to keep his website up to date is getting a bit ‘picky’ I just can’t work out where your coming from! Cheers, John H(I) Always look at the bright side of life…. As an unappointed advocate for NA if I may say ‘objection!..’  NA was merely trying to suggest that the material that Alan is coming with is very interesting , and should he place it in an organized form in a web site, it would win plenty of creditability and maybe more people would take the research results he comes with more seriously. (A constructive suggestion…). Sorry for sticking my nose… On Elpeleg By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

Thanks for the post, Alan. First, please know I am thinking about your mom — losing a pet is never easy, and especially one who has so brought much comfort for so many years. What a good son you are to spend some time with her. I’m sure she appreciated it. Second, I have always enjoyed your posts and contributions to the ng. You were one of the first posters I remember when I first arrived here and over the years you have given me much to think about. While I have to admit I don’t always understand all of what you post (ok, MOST of what you post <G) I appreciate your complete commitment to finding answers to our disease. Please, please, please continue to post both the technical and personal information you have to share. Many of us here (most, actually) applaud you for your tireless work! As far as the negative energy — yes, it seems to surface every once in awhile around here. The best thing to do is ignore it. Just give your foil hat a tug, so it fits nice and tight and send out a few (((((((hugs))))))) to the posters who need them, and we’ll make sure that negative energy goes away fast!  I always figure people who pick on others is really a sign of their own unhappiness and low self esteem — and that is very sad. I read a couple other ng — and we are quite lucky we don’t have more negative/hurtful people. Thanks again  — and again, my thoughts and prayers for your mom. Hope you are feeling well. Rebecca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

Your a strange one On. You’ll attack Alan Kennedy when he posts information on Crohn’s research and his view about where we are at with this disease. When Alans bonafides have been known to this group for several years.

Hi John Science is not football Its not about being nice or not being nice… But if you are to put your self in a position of a judge and  give grades for who was the nicest one in the discussion…and you are to convince us that Alan is an innocent lamb…and everyone that disagrees with him is a bad woolf, I could only recommend you to go back to the discussion (MAP vs. genetics) from day one and read  it. I for one think that you are not looking at the things objectivly. But then, you’ll stick up for NA who in my view is a "loose canon" and I think thats being as nice as I can be regarding NA. I think it’s obvious that Alan’s got so much on his plate that to keep his website up to date is getting a bit ‘picky’

Again you are coming with the ‘who is the nicest one..’, I understand it… and fully respect and accept it, after all we are in some sort of support group. And people should be nice with eachother in a support group, now let me ask you something… how would you respond if I am to suggest that you are a confused, ignorant, inhuman, immature, anonymouse agitator? John you seem to have  a strong opinion of Alan being the nice guy… and NA the bad guy… Alan is the poor victim and NA is the victimizer… and you are fighting for saving the victim from their bad bad.. victimizer. You reckon it may be possible for you to try looking at things from a different angle? If Alan is to inform the world about his work, would you agree that this support group is actualy a drop in the oceane?  do you know how many IBD mailing lists exist out there? I found hundreds of them! some of them have thousands of members! But than again everything that NA says is wrong… because he is not nice. (by the way it doesnt cost anything today to run a complete website free of charge except few hours work, and i am certain that www.crohns.org would be happy to help Alan in starting such a site… or maybe you and the other fans could even contribute?). I just can’t work out where your coming from!

Well since you have not asked I would answer in my culture a person that phrases another person as a ‘confused, ignorant, inhuman, immature, anonymouse agitator’ in a scientifical discussion.. is not taken seriously, but than again we all come from different places and cultures.. just as you suggested.  So maybe like you suggest its all a geographical problem and what one sees from here you can not see from there…  ;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, John H(I) Always look at the bright side of life…. As an unappointed advocate for NA if I may say ‘objection!..’  NA was merely trying to suggest that the material that Alan is coming with is very interesting , and should he place it in an organized form in a web site, it would win plenty of creditability and maybe more people would take the research results he comes with more seriously. (A constructive suggestion…). Sorry for sticking my nose… On Elpeleg By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

Who are you talking to?  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PPS: I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group Again, I urge you to take a more honest look at yourself.

Response:

Of course we do Alan.  I know you don’t visit the ng on a regular basis, so I doubt you know this, but Mr. Turner aka NA for months has been picking out one target at a time here and trying to drive him/her off with a patented mix of valid research info, sophistry and flames.  I believe the number of people who have completely screened out his messages actually exceeds the number of people who have screened out Ironman Tom the Watchman(who, interestingly since he learned to follow the ng charter and not flame appears to get more respect than Mr. Turner here).  You need to either filter him out like so many others do, complain about him to the Smithsonian Air and Space Mag along with copies of his flames, or do what you used to do in the past, what Ken W. has done so well even with NA, and that’s debate him without stooping to his level and flaming back.

Response:

Your a strange one On. You’ll attack Alan Kennedy when he posts information on Crohn’s research and his view about where we are at with this disease. When Alans bonafides have been known to this group for several years. But then, you’ll stick up for NA who in my view is a "loose canon" and I think thats being as nice as I can be regarding NA. I think it’s obvious that Alan’s got so much on his plate that to keep his website up to date is getting a bit ‘picky’ I just can’t work out where your coming from! Cheers, John H(I)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Always look at the bright side of life…. As an unappointed advocate for NA if I may say ‘objection!..’  NA was merely trying to suggest that the material that Alan is coming with is very interesting , and should he place it in an organized form in a web site, it would win plenty of creditability and maybe more people would take the research results he comes with more seriously. (A constructive suggestion…). Sorry for sticking my nose… On Elpeleg By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

hi alan, to be truthful, i really don’t know.  personally, i don’t read most of the map posts, i consider them about as speculative as any other "theory" going today on the "cause" of cd.  i don’t see the cause of cd coming around any too soon.  we don’t really even know how to treat the damn thing.  i think the majoity of us here would agree that of the treatments we have had or are on, it ain’t work’in.  some of us have been lucky enough to sweat it out long enough to finally fall into some form of treatment that helps, in varing degrees.  so, don’t take this as a yes or no, i really don’t know…i just don’t see enough evidence building up to prove any theory anytime soon. Jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

PPS: I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group

Again, I urge you to take a more honest look at yourself.

Response:

Always look at the bright side of life…. As an unappointed advocate for NA if I may say ‘objection!..’  NA was merely trying to suggest that the material that Alan is coming with is very interesting , and should he place it in an organized form in a web site, it would win plenty of creditability and maybe more people would take the research results he comes with more seriously. (A constructive suggestion…). Sorry for sticking my nose… On Elpeleg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site. I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

PS: some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions,

The essential nature of a newsgroup is interaction. People will always respond to your posts. You seem upset and shaken that people challenge your assertions, and post evidence that contradicts your posts, or point out errors you’ve made. If these challenges upset you so much, why not just post your MAP material on your own Website and be done with it? That way you won’t have to put up with disagreements and contradictory assertions. Every so often, you could post a simple statement on this newsgroup saying: "Please come to www.[whatever] and check out my latest MAP information." By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site.

Response:

By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site.

I think that was an uncalled for statement. I am not sure how much experience you have with website development but to put together a site that is well organized and easy to use takes a fair amount of time, to say nothing of updating it on a regular basis, while typing a response here can be done very quickly.

Response:

I don’t know if it’s just me but your link doesn’t work.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS: some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, The essential nature of a newsgroup is interaction. People will always respond to your posts. You seem upset and shaken that people challenge your assertions, and post evidence that contradicts your posts, or point out errors you’ve made. If these challenges upset you so much, why not just post your MAP material on your own Website and be done with it? That way you won’t have to put up with disagreements and contradictory assertions. Every so often, you could post a simple statement on this newsgroup saying: "Please come to www.[whatever] and check out my latest MAP information." By the way: I’m unclear why you have time to post multiple posts and responses here, but you say you don’t have time to update your web site.

Response:

hi—please continue the posts–also–wouldn’t it be nice if similar sentiments were sent by some of the "combatants?" mel

Response:

Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research?

Only if you stop relentlessly pitting MAP research against research into other avenues of IBD research, such as therapies based on immune suppression or cytokine regulation, for example. Realize that many people here are, in fact, getting relief through all sorts of non-RMAT therapies–and respect that. Enough with the "RMAT good!/conventional medicine bad!" crap. It’s tedious, and it turns people off. You only lose credibility when you indulge in your constant dark mutterings about the evils of conventional medicine, pharmaceutical development, epidemiology, etc., and your implicit claims only you and a few of your fellow MAP advocates are enlightened enough to see through the quagmire of corruption to The Truth. Frankly, the difference between your culture and ours is that ours is already exhausted by such conspiracy theories. Please also be honest with yourself, and realize that all your "I was only trying to help!" protestations have a strong whiff of self-pity to them. Not to mention self-beatification.

Response:

Your posts, reports, and other information you post are certainly of interest to me and I hope you keep posting them. Whether all, some or none of Crohns is caused by MAP is still to be determined, but I am happy there is research into more then one cause. The more research the better, and more likely finding a cause and then cure.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

I want to hear about every…EVERY…report relating to Crohn’s. The theory I have is that if WE can just live long enought they WILL find a way to fix all of our problems. Thanks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

I want to hear it. But let it be known that if I feel very strongly I will post a response. I have not and will try to never get personal. We are all on the same side here. Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research?

Yes, please continue to post. I am one who is skeptical that MAP is the "cause" of CD, although I believe it may well be one of many different triggers of CD in susceptible people. But I’m willing to reexamine my beliefs in the light of new scientific data. Wayne Marsh          Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Response:

Alan please forward my sincere sympathy to your mother for losing her close friend. Concerning the issue of your writing here, I am a new user here and regardless of that I would like to refer to an answer I wrote to Chancy when she asked everyone here to help expelling Tom Hennessey from the list (enclosed bellow). I have no problem whatever with you ‘posting information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research’, but should I come with critic and/or doubt concerning this information and will have to face baseless personal insults in return I would certainly have problems taking the information seriously. Regards On Elpeleg Chancy hi As long as Tom Hennessey doesn’t pretend to ‘have any of the diseases for which these groups have been set up to support, he does he care for anyone with them nor have any family with them. He has no recognised medical expertise and supports his thesis with glib quotations from NIH Medline and other sources which he dimly understands.’ I see no reason to

ban him, if he wants to argue for a certain treatment he better be good and better come with clinical trial documentation as well as references to articles in serious magazines. From what I can see he hasn’t done so yet. Reading his stuff here is harmless, but banning him may harm the list. Not just freedom of speech, but most important freedom of expression and discussion of any type of therapy. Regards On Elpeleg

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

Yes, Definitly keep on posting….  It’s all good! I’ve gone through my share of doubts…don’t let the NA ’s and the Flippers of the world turn you away from what you believe in. It’s pretty hard to refute good science…. and when they do they just make themselves look bad…eg. take NA and me as an example. He blasts falsehoods about USANA and I blast him right back with the truth and it doesn’t take one long to see what kind of a person he is. Ken.W  7 Years Med Free!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

Alan, very well put.  And I for one would like you to continue the update and information on MAP.  Sorry about your mothers friend dying (the dog)  It is very hard emotionally.   Maybe in a  little time she can get another companion. UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

Hi All, I’ve been away for a few days, staying out in my mothers. Her 15 1/2 year old dog passed away on Monday. She was quite upset about it, because she’s had the dog since her husband (my father) passed away 15 years ago. So I went out to keep her company. On Monday, as I spent an hour burying the beloved pooch in the back garden, I had much time to reflect on life and death, happiness and unhappiness, healthiness and suffering. It was a sad time. The conclusion that I came to was the one that I always come to: That we are all lucky to have our time in this world. Some of us are less lucky, in that health problems sometimes prevent us from realising the fullness of our potential. It is particularly sad when this affects children. I realised then that I have an important job to do, and that it is not yet finished. I also realised if I’m going to achieve anything, then I need my full emotional strength, so as to be able to handle the inevitable accusations of self-interest that always arise. When I started out my long journey five years ago, I knew that I would come under sustained personal criticism, suspicion and attack. There are just too many vested interests involved for that not to be the case. It is ironic that by far the most vitriolic and anti-personal attacks originate from within the very group that I started out to help. Ironic, but not surprising, however, since the destructive nature of Crohn’s Disease forces us all to construct world pictures, sometimes based on assumptions and hopes, that permits us to live life without going insane. If someone challenges those assumptions and hopes, then it is only to be expected that we will sometimes strike out against that someone with vigorous force. I am fully aware that this is a support newsgroup. People come to this newsgroup for "Discussions of all types of medicine — conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever — are welcome here;", according to the Newsgroup charter. http://ascc.healingwell.com/info/charter.html I make posts into the newsgroup about MAP and Crohn’s Disease related news because I believe that people want to hear about them. Sometimes these announcements result in extensive debates, in which I endeavour to always support my point of view with research and facts. Many times, these debates get personal, and though I dislike being personally attacked for my point of view, I endeavour to not let it get under my skin, and to reply in a sensible and mature fashion. But some of these discussions of the previous two weeks have resulted in heated emotional discussions, with plenty of negative emotional energy flying around. Although I don’t feel responsible for infusing this negative emotional energy into the group, I still don’t want it to happen. I don’t want this newsgroup to be polluted with negative emotion, not only because it’s against the newsgroup charter, but it’s a waste of my and others valuable emotional energy. So, the question I put to the newsgroup is this: Do people in this newsgroup want me to post information bulletins about the latest of Crohn’s Disease and MAP research? If people don’t want to hear about it, then I won’t post it any more. Sincerely, Alan Kennedy.

Response:

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