My Crohn's and Colitis Blog » Ulcerative Colitis Crohn's » It's me again – ready for more abuse!

It's me again – ready for more abuse!

Question:

You drink Lady Lee brand Rootbeer?  UGH! There is a store near by me that sells "Dr. Skipper"… guess what its supposed to taste like?  In reality it tastes like crap, but I guess Dr. Crap wouldnt sell.. Andy

Response:

Say whatever you like, Darryl.  You and "Bozo" won’t be seeing a penny of my money.

Response:

Darryl~ I was surprised that anyone would actually respond to my post after all this time.  Not that that really matters but frankly I feel a little flattered that it in fact did get responded to(the one who originally posted about it, citing how great the Shaklee products are–I think her name’s Bonnie–never took the trouble to do this). First I’m acually glad you provided some details I wasn’t aware of, namely that the Shaklee Co. CEO(Jim Whittam whose name I’d forgotten after having seen it in the obituary section of the L.A. Times)had cancer for a number of years before dying from it.  I would have been curious to know, then, whether he’d used it as a treament in place of or instead of chemotherapy, radiation, y’know the conventional approaches. I think though that you can see the objection raised by those of us with IBD is with the notion that the Shaklee products should work where the conventional medical approach either doesn’t or is fraught with so many problems i.e., drug side effects, surgeries that don’t cure. etc.  If someone is so bold as to claim that what they’re touting is superior we’d need clearcut clinical evidence of this, not testimonials or hearsay of some sort. When people are critically ill, they become vulnerable to any sort of "cure" in the desperate hope that it will finally put an end to their suffering, hence the thriving clinics south of the border in Tijuana that peddle laetrile for cancer and doubtless other sorts of treatments which if they work, do so as a PLACEBO effect.   This in fact happened to me many years ago when I consulted a chiropractor who made extensive use of accurpressure and aloe vera. For about a week or so I felt fantastic, only to re-experience the discomfort from CD afterwards. So even if the Shaklee products had any effect in helping Jim Whittam(which you apparently believe they did), this was a placebo effect, nothing more, nothing less.  And  I suppose we can appreciate that he was open to trying an alernative approach yet it was going to fail anyway. Mark Mandell

Response:

And as I posted on this topic before, If Shaklee’s so great, why did the CEO die of cancer about two months ago and he was only about 49? Obviously the product didn’t save him, did it??? MM He must have had bad karma. :=} Kathi Kathi

Sorry Kathi Kathi, but My Karma just ran over your Dogma. };) — -Regards, Darryl Perry Gryphon’s Eyrie BBS:Sacramento, CA.|916-363-1830 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

If I never seen another posting with the name Shaklee anywhere in the posting, Jerry

Response:

Personally I like my little ’soap box’ it is covered with foil and has flowers and is high up off the ground where all those little vitamins are..waiting to attack me…nope…I ‘m not stepping off my soap box.  I don’t want to have to choose between 20 million things that can cure me…it just gives me panic attacks and flares up my CD.  But hey, thanks for the input.  :-) — DAWN/Bonnie   who is not being very nice today at all but I did put a smiley face at the end.  :-) http://millennium.fortunecity.com/hibiscus/721/ http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/1304/corrigan.htm     in the Honor Role as Bonnie Chandler Darryl wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The choice is yours.  You could be dogmatic about it, you could put stand up on your ‘Soap Box’ and bar yourself from a possible source of relief solely because you don’t like the messenger, or you could open yourself up to the possiblity that message brings.

Response:

Well, who ever makes the thing puts its ingredients on the label. Tell us what is in it.  Anyone interested can then find their own source.  That should be above board enough for the nay-sayers and still give the curious enough information to investigate.

Clyde, On the surface, that mights sound like a good idea.  But if I told you that the other day I had the best hamburger at In and Out Burger, and then you went to McDonalds and ordered their hamburger thinking you would get the best hamburger, you’d prolly be very disappointed, and wonder why I told you that a hamburger was a good thing to eat. If I told you that Mug makes a very good root beer, then you went to the local Lucky’s to get the ‘Lady Lee’ brand root beer, thinking it was the same quality as Mug, you’d be very disappointed. If I told you that a Lincoln Town car gave a very smooth ride, then you went and putted around in a Yugo, you prolly wouldn’t have as smooth a ride. It’s the same way with nutritional supplement manufacturers.  Some are clearly better than others. Regards, Darryl Perry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marty, I am not familiar with Bonnie’s story or what she was taking, but surely most of us are trying to find an alternative to the drugs, which in my case, do not work to well. I suffer from UC, Arthritis and Psoriasis. In January a friend of mine suggested I take a Supplement for my arthritis. It helped him a lot. I wont go into details, but not only did my arthritis clear up but so did the UC and Psoriasis. I can put up with the pain of the arthritis and the constant itching of the Psoriasis, but the UC really got me down. That was over 3 months ago, in 8 years I have only had a few, short, periods of remmission. Here is the dilemma. I want to tell everyone about it, but how can I ? You see the supplement is only sold through a network marketing firm. If you want it, you have to join. If you join someone above you will have to receive a commission on what you buy. What do you do ? Regards Graham

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body. Bonnie,    First, my apologies to the rest of the group.  I have a weakness in my personality that makes me unable to resist a troll.  In general, I think responding to these posts is a bad idea.  More specifically, I think that squabbling about potential remedies on a SUPPORT group is a particularly bad idea. If somebody is legitimately suffering from IBD, and has had good results with anything – traditional meds, herbs, acupuncture, whatever,  then share it with us.  However, I really resent mislabeled advertising.  I think the group’s FAQ’s make exactly this distinction.  However, a couple points in response to Bonnie:    1)    I really don’t believe your story.  Who knows, it could    be true.  On the other hand, it is inherently implausible.    As most of the folks here know, there are few magic    remedies for CD.  I don’t have any idea whether you ever    had Crohn’s – for all I know you could have had an episode    of viral diarrhea.  Anybody with Internet access can post    anything.  While I believe almost everybody here, very few    of the rest of them are selling anything.    2)    Even if your story is true, it proves nothing.  IBD has    a fluctuating course.  People get worse and then get better,    often without any obvious cause.  The association between    your alleged improvement and the use of certain vitamins    may have been nothing but coincidence.  People also tend    to get better when they take something that they believe    may be efficacious – the placebo effect.  The placebo effect    is very real.    3)    The only scientifically valid way to prove efficacy of    an intervention is by a clinical trial – preferably one that    is randomized and controlled.  A clinical trial in humans    suffering from a given disease is usually the only way to    prove that an intervention gives better results than standard    treatment.  Theoretic reasoning, laboratory models, or    animal trials may give interesting insights, but the medical    literature is replete with examples of great pre-clinical    theories that were found wanting in clinical trials.    4)    Performing a clinical trial is VERY difficult.  Assume that    your vitamin company really wanted to do a study of the    efficacy of nutritional intervention in IBD.  They would    have to write a protocol which would define, among other    things, what patients would participate, what the standard    treatment would be, and what intervention would be used.    They’d also have to decide who’d be excluded.  For example,    would they use people with IBD who were also dying of    cancer?  How about pregnant women or nursing moms?    They’d then have to decide how to assess response.  Would    you do repeat endoscopy, lab measurements, or patient    reports of symptoms?   Once your company had a protocol,    you’d have to draft a consent form for the subjects, and then    have the protocol and the consent form    approved by the Institutional Review Board or boards    supervising the research.  I sit on one of these, and they    are not rubber stamps – you’d have to get a researcher to    present the protocol to the IRB, and then go back and make    changes required by the IRB.  Once the study was underway    they’d have to collect data.  Once the study was complete    they’d have to have a statistician analyze the data, write up    the results, submit it to a peer-reviewed medical journal,    undertake the editing process.    5)    I’ve asked before if your company has performed any    clinical trials in IBD.  If there is a reference I’d be thrilled to    take a look at it.                                                        MartyBL

– -Regards, Darryl Perry Gryphon’s Eyrie BBS:Sacramento, CA.|916-363-1830 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Mimi, I am fairly new to this NG, but I’ve seen quite a bit of posting regarding Shaklee products.  I’m puzzled…

I’m puzzled too. I thought it was obvious.  If anyone with IBD really believed their product would help, they would buy it.  Just that simple.

I thought it was obvious too.  You are responding directly to a post from somebody with IBD, who believed the products would help, and they did buy it.  It was very simple. Judging by the posts I’ve read, no one here is interested.  As a matter of fact, reaction seems to be just the opposite.  People are irritated by this constant bombardment and now wouldn’t try Shaklee products if they were free.

The part I don’t understand is when a fellow sufferer comes here to inform others of the success that s/he had with certain products, nobody wants to hear about it.  It seems that people just want to suffer, moan and complain about their illness.  Others actually want to do something about it.  If medical science were all that it was hyped to be, then there wouldn’t even be a need for this newsgroup, would there?  The medical profession would have eradicated IBD and it would have gone the way of the dodo. These begin to sound like religious converts – they’re right and everyone else is wrong.  (Hope none of my fellow IBDers are offended – if so, I apologize.)

Maybe it could be that they found something that worked for them, and they wish to share it with others who could also find relief.  To turn your back on a valid option like this only hurts only yourself. The choice is yours.  You could be dogmatic about it, you could put stand up on your ‘Soap Box’ and bar yourself from a possible source of relief solely because you don’t like the messenger, or you could open yourself up to the possiblity that message brings. — -Regards, Darryl Perry Gryphon’s Eyrie BBS:Sacramento, CA.|916-363-1830 http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

’cause he obviously didn’t consume the crap he produced. or maybe he did.  interesting conundrum. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am fairly new to this NG, but I’ve seen quite a bit of posting regarding Shaklee products.  I’m puzzled… I thought it was obvious.  If anyone with IBD really believed their product would help, they would buy it.  Just that simple. Judging by the posts I’ve read, no one here is interested.  As a matter of fact, reaction seems to be just the opposite.  People are irritated by this constant bombardment and now wouldn’t try Shaklee products if they were free. These begin to sound like religious converts – they’re right and everyone else is wrong.  (Hope none of my fellow IBDers are offended – if so, I apologize.) Love, Mimi (off the soapbox)

Mimi, My personal opinion on this (I’ve been working on the internet since 1988) is that people are not offended by these advertisements.  In fact if bonzo bothered to read and follow the posting rules for the group, I think most follow-ups to his posts would be positive..  It’s really annoying when a rule like this has been created to improve everyone’s enjoyment of the group, is completely ignored. People have a similar reaction to spam, even if it is a product they would be interested in purchasing. See the requirement for placing "AD" in the subject is to help those interested in purchasing products find those postings which offer products for sale. BTW, I now never purchase any product which is introduced to me via a mechanism that I dislike (e.g. telemarketing, spam, postings in newsgroups which are supposed to exclude ads).  It’s a principal thing.  If more people followed this example, I think we’d see a lot fewer of these sorts of marketing campaigns. Sincerely, — Jim Batka

Response:

And as I posted on this topic before, If Shaklee’s so great, why did the CEO die of cancer about two months ago and he was only about 49? Obviously the product didn’t save him, did it??? MM

Wow!  What a statement!  It’s very easy to point at an event such as this so you can poo-poo the products.  Let’s completely overlook the fact that lung cancer is a killer no matter what you do.  From my understanding, EVEN MEDICAL SCIENCE cannot cure cancer, but Shaklee get’s a black eye because it couldn’t either?  Wow!  That’s a reason for me to flock to, and adhere to medical science…. solely because the Shaklee products couldn’t cure a lung cancer patient.  Sure, if I were in a similar position, I would choose to be laid up in a hospital bed, with tubes and needles stuck in my body, solely at the mercy of the ‘Health Care Providers’.  Yeah, I would chose that any day over doing everything I possibly can to relieve me of my ailments on my own. Jim Whittam had cancer for many years before he died.  It was an automatic death sentance no matter what he did or did not do.  Who is to say that he would not have died at 46, or 42 or even 39.  Did the Shaklee products have a hand at improving his chances for a longer life, a better quality of life?  Who knows?  I don’t know, but I BELIEVE it did. — -Regards, Darryl Perry Gryphon’s Eyrie BBS:Sacramento, CA.|916-363-1830 Online Games : FidoNet Echos : Local Sacramento Discussions Running Telegard : Always free! : Never a Fee! : All Ages! http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Well, who ever makes the thing puts its ingredients on the label.  Tell us what is in it.  Anyone interested can then find their own source.  That should be above board enough for the nay-sayers and still give the curious enough information to investigate. I don’t know about results with Crohn’s and UC, but I know that my wife’s arthritis (AS) is helped by B vitamins and the avoidance of milk. You are HLA-B27 positive, I assume?  With UC, Arthritis, and Psoriasis I would certainly think that you would be HLA-B27 positive.  My wife is.  You can respond directly to me if nothing else. Best Wishes, CAD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marty, I am not familiar with Bonnie’s story or what she was taking, but surely most of us are trying to find an alternative to the drugs, which in my case, do not work to well. I suffer from UC, Arthritis and Psoriasis. In January a friend of mine suggested I take a Supplement for my arthritis. It helped him a lot. I wont go into details, but not only did my arthritis clear up but so did the UC and Psoriasis. I can put up with the pain of the arthritis and the constant itching of the Psoriasis, but the UC really got me down. That was over 3 months ago, in 8 years I have only had a few, short, periods of remmission. Here is the dilemma. I want to tell everyone about it, but how can I ? You see the supplement is only sold through a network marketing firm. If you want it, you have to join. If you join someone above you will have to receive a commission on what you buy. What do you do ? Regards Graham I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body. Bonnie,    First, my apologies to the rest of the group.  I have a weakness in my personality that makes me unable to resist a troll.  In general, I think responding to these posts is a bad idea.  More specifically, I think that squabbling about potential remedies on a SUPPORT group is a particularly bad idea. If somebody is legitimately suffering from IBD, and has had good results with anything – traditional meds, herbs, acupuncture, whatever,  then share it with us.  However, I really resent mislabeled advertising.  I think the group’s FAQ’s make exactly this distinction.  However, a couple points in response to Bonnie:    1)    I really don’t believe your story.  Who knows, it could    be true.  On the other hand, it is inherently implausible.    As most of the folks here know, there are few magic    remedies for CD.  I don’t have any idea whether you ever    had Crohn’s – for all I know you could have had an episode    of viral diarrhea.  Anybody with Internet access can post    anything.  While I believe almost everybody here, very few    of the rest of them are selling anything.    2)    Even if your story is true, it proves nothing.  IBD has    a fluctuating course.  People get worse and then get better,    often without any obvious cause.  The association between    your alleged improvement and the use of certain vitamins    may have been nothing but coincidence.  People also tend    to get better when they take something that they believe    may be efficacious – the placebo effect.  The placebo effect    is very real.    3)    The only scientifically valid way to prove efficacy of    an intervention is by a clinical trial – preferably one that    is randomized and controlled.  A clinical trial in humans    suffering from a given disease is usually the only way to    prove that an intervention gives better results than standard    treatment.  Theoretic reasoning, laboratory models, or    animal trials may give interesting insights, but the medical    literature is replete with examples of great pre-clinical    theories that were found wanting in clinical trials.    4)    Performing a clinical trial is VERY difficult.  Assume that    your vitamin company really wanted to do a study of the    efficacy of nutritional intervention in IBD.  They would    have to write a protocol which would define, among other    things, what patients would participate, what the standard    treatment would be, and what intervention would be used.    They’d also have to decide who’d be excluded.  For example,    would they use people with IBD who were also dying of    cancer?  How about pregnant women or nursing moms?    They’d then have to decide how to assess response.  Would    you do repeat endoscopy, lab measurements, or patient    reports of symptoms?   Once your company had a protocol,    you’d have to draft a consent form for the subjects, and then    have the protocol and the consent form    approved by the Institutional Review Board or boards    supervising the research.  I sit on one of these, and they    are not rubber stamps – you’d have to get a researcher to    present the protocol to the IRB, and then go back and make    changes required by the IRB.  Once the study was underway    they’d have to collect data.  Once the study was complete    they’d have to have a statistician analyze the data, write up    the results, submit it to a peer-reviewed medical journal,    undertake the editing process.    5)    I’ve asked before if your company has performed any    clinical trials in IBD.  If there is a reference I’d be thrilled to    take a look at it.                                                        MartyBL

Response:

Mimi- I for one am not offended by what you said – I certainly agree!!!  No apology necessary in my opinion….. Tracy : )

Response:

I swear that I am totally well.  But I do not eat at fast food places or use dairy products.  I only use Shaklee products.

Bet you sell them too. Kathi Kathi

Response:

And as I posted on this topic before, If Shaklee’s so great, why did the CEO die of cancer about two months ago and he was only about 49? Obviously the product didn’t save him, did it??? MM

He must have had bad karma. :=} Kathi Kathi

Response:

There are alot of foods out there in which there has been added either xanthum or guar gum. For instance, this fat free egg sold in small size cartons contains it. Was wondering if anyone other than me experiences problems because of it, namely pressure and/or diarrhea in the ileal area(which in my case was  surgically removed). Mark Mandell

Response:

Marty, I am not familiar with Bonnie’s story or what she was taking, but surely most of us are trying to find an alternative to the drugs, which in my case, do not work to well. I suffer from UC, Arthritis and Psoriasis. In January a friend of mine suggested I take a Supplement for my arthritis. It helped him a lot. I wont go into details, but not only did my arthritis clear up but so did the UC and Psoriasis. I can put up with the pain of the arthritis and the constant itching of the Psoriasis, but the UC really got me down. That was over 3 months ago, in 8 years I have only had a few, short, periods of remmission. Here is the dilemma. I want to tell everyone about it, but how can I ? You see the supplement is only sold through a network marketing firm. If you want it, you have to join. If you join someone above you will have to receive a commission on what you buy. What do you do ? Regards Graham – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body. Bonnie,    First, my apologies to the rest of the group.  I have a weakness in my personality that makes me unable to resist a troll.  In general, I think responding to these posts is a bad idea.  More specifically, I think that squabbling about potential remedies on a SUPPORT group is a particularly bad idea. If somebody is legitimately suffering from IBD, and has had good results with anything – traditional meds, herbs, acupuncture, whatever,  then share it with us.  However, I really resent mislabeled advertising.  I think the group’s FAQ’s make exactly this distinction.  However, a couple points in response to Bonnie:    1)    I really don’t believe your story.  Who knows, it could    be true.  On the other hand, it is inherently implausible.    As most of the folks here know, there are few magic    remedies for CD.  I don’t have any idea whether you ever    had Crohn’s – for all I know you could have had an episode    of viral diarrhea.  Anybody with Internet access can post    anything.  While I believe almost everybody here, very few    of the rest of them are selling anything.    2)    Even if your story is true, it proves nothing.  IBD has    a fluctuating course.  People get worse and then get better,    often without any obvious cause.  The association between    your alleged improvement and the use of certain vitamins    may have been nothing but coincidence.  People also tend    to get better when they take something that they believe    may be efficacious – the placebo effect.  The placebo effect    is very real.    3)    The only scientifically valid way to prove efficacy of    an intervention is by a clinical trial – preferably one that    is randomized and controlled.  A clinical trial in humans    suffering from a given disease is usually the only way to    prove that an intervention gives better results than standard    treatment.  Theoretic reasoning, laboratory models, or    animal trials may give interesting insights, but the medical    literature is replete with examples of great pre-clinical    theories that were found wanting in clinical trials.    4)    Performing a clinical trial is VERY difficult.  Assume that    your vitamin company really wanted to do a study of the    efficacy of nutritional intervention in IBD.  They would    have to write a protocol which would define, among other    things, what patients would participate, what the standard    treatment would be, and what intervention would be used.    They’d also have to decide who’d be excluded.  For example,    would they use people with IBD who were also dying of    cancer?  How about pregnant women or nursing moms?    They’d then have to decide how to assess response.  Would    you do repeat endoscopy, lab measurements, or patient    reports of symptoms?   Once your company had a protocol,    you’d have to draft a consent form for the subjects, and then    have the protocol and the consent form    approved by the Institutional Review Board or boards    supervising the research.  I sit on one of these, and they    are not rubber stamps – you’d have to get a researcher to    present the protocol to the IRB, and then go back and make    changes required by the IRB.  Once the study was underway    they’d have to collect data.  Once the study was complete    they’d have to have a statistician analyze the data, write up    the results, submit it to a peer-reviewed medical journal,    undertake the editing process.    5)    I’ve asked before if your company has performed any    clinical trials in IBD.  If there is a reference I’d be thrilled to    take a look at it.                                                        MartyBL

Response:

Graham, There is a really easy answer to this question, at least for this newsgroup- you put the word AD or ADVERTISEMENT in your subject heading, and then tell the story of the supplement.  The details are in the ng charter, which is reprinted below for your viewing pleasure. Bonnie has been informed of this very simple rule at least a score of times, and her choice to ignore marks her as a scammer, not to mention a spammer. What is Alt.support.crohns-colitis? Alt.support.crohns-colitis was created in early 1994 as a forum where people suffering from ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s Disease, and irritable bowel syndrome can share their everyday struggles with these illnesses, as well as discuss medicines, treatments, surgery, diet, health care providers, related illnesses, and anything else anyone can think of that relates to these diseases.  In other words, this is the online equivalent of a support group, which means that no question is stupid and no condition embarrassing here.  It also means we’re all here to help each other out, so please be nice, be polite, and no flaming. Discussions of all types of medicine- conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever- are welcome here; however, any person discussing a potential remedy which he or she also sells must explicitly begin the "Subject" header of their post with the word "AD" or "ADVERTISEMENT" in all caps, regardless of whether or not they profit from such sales.  Spamming is expressly forbidden as violating the rules of netiquette as well as those of this newsgroup.  Finally, please keep in mind that no one knows what causes these illnesses, no one’s come up with a cure, and we need all the help we can get. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marty, I am not familiar with Bonnie’s story or what she was taking, but surely most of us are trying to find an alternative to the drugs, which in my case, do not work to well. I suffer from UC, Arthritis and Psoriasis. In January a friend of mine suggested I take a Supplement for my arthritis. It helped him a lot. I wont go into details, but not only did my arthritis clear up but so did the UC and Psoriasis. I can put up with the pain of the arthritis and the constant itching of the Psoriasis, but the UC really got me down. That was over 3 months ago, in 8 years I have only had a few, short, periods of remmission. Here is the dilemma. I want to tell everyone about it, but how can I ? You see the supplement is only sold through a network marketing firm. If you want it, you have to join. If you join someone above you will have to receive a commission on what you buy. What do you do ? Regards Graham I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body. Bonnie,    First, my apologies to the rest of the group.  I have a weakness in my personality that makes me unable to resist a troll.  In general, I think responding to these posts is a bad idea.  More specifically, I think that squabbling about potential remedies on a SUPPORT group is a particularly bad idea. If somebody is legitimately suffering from IBD, and has had good results with anything – traditional meds, herbs, acupuncture, whatever,  then share it with us.  However, I really resent mislabeled advertising.  I think the group’s FAQ’s make exactly this distinction.  However, a couple points in response to Bonnie:    1)    I really don’t believe your story.  Who knows, it could    be true.  On the other hand, it is inherently implausible.    As most of the folks here know, there are few magic    remedies for CD.  I don’t have any idea whether you ever    had Crohn’s – for all I know you could have had an episode    of viral diarrhea.  Anybody with Internet access can post    anything.  While I believe almost everybody here, very few    of the rest of them are selling anything.    2)    Even if your story is true, it proves nothing.  IBD has    a fluctuating course.  People get worse and then get better,    often without any obvious cause.  The association between    your alleged improvement and the use of certain vitamins    may have been nothing but coincidence.  People also tend    to get better when they take something that they believe    may be efficacious – the placebo effect.  The placebo effect    is very real.    3)    The only scientifically valid way to prove efficacy of    an intervention is by a clinical trial – preferably one that    is randomized and controlled.  A clinical trial in humans    suffering from a given disease is usually the only way to    prove that an intervention gives better results than standard    treatment.  Theoretic reasoning, laboratory models, or    animal trials may give interesting insights, but the medical    literature is replete with examples of great pre-clinical    theories that were found wanting in clinical trials.    4)    Performing a clinical trial is VERY difficult.  Assume that    your vitamin company really wanted to do a study of the    efficacy of nutritional intervention in IBD.  They would    have to write a protocol which would define, among other    things, what patients would participate, what the standard    treatment would be, and what intervention would be used.    They’d also have to decide who’d be excluded.  For example,    would they use people with IBD who were also dying of    cancer?  How about pregnant women or nursing moms?    They’d then have to decide how to assess response.  Would    you do repeat endoscopy, lab measurements, or patient    reports of symptoms?   Once your company had a protocol,    you’d have to draft a consent form for the subjects, and then    have the protocol and the consent form    approved by the Institutional Review Board or boards    supervising the research.  I sit on one of these, and they    are not rubber stamps – you’d have to get a researcher to    present the protocol to the IRB, and then go back and make    changes required by the IRB.  Once the study was underway    they’d have to collect data.  Once the study was complete    they’d have to have a statistician analyze the data, write up    the results, submit it to a peer-reviewed medical journal,    undertake the editing process.    5)    I’ve asked before if your company has performed any    clinical trials in IBD.  If there is a reference I’d be thrilled to    take a look at it.                                                        MartyBL

Response:

I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body.  When I gave all my power to Drs, I stayed sick and almost died, but I became responsible for my body and went on a hunt and am totally well today because of it. I used a Soy Protein drink for my source of Protein twice a day…I took Vita Lea, I used a antioxidents A, C and E…B-Complex for stress.  Calcium Magnesium for muscles to work more efficiently. (E gets rid of scar tissue).  Alfalfa for inflammation and then I added Optiflora because it puts the good bacteria back into the colon.(bifidus and achidophilis). I swear that I am totally well.  But I do not eat at fast food places or use dairy products.  I only use Shaklee products. Bonnie

Response:

Bonnie, Have you not learned yet?  We have repeatedly asked you to put ADVERTISEMENT in the header of your messages, because that is what they are.  I am very happy that you are well, I hope that all of us will be someday, but if you know anything about Crohn’s, you will know that everyone responds to different things, so please don’t act as if what helps you will help everyone, because it won’t. To everyone else, I am sorry if I sound snippy, but I am getting frustrated by the continuous messages from these "S" people. Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body.  When I gave all my power to Drs, I stayed sick and almost died, but I became responsible for my body and went on a hunt and am totally well today because of it. I used a Soy Protein drink for my source of Protein twice a day…I took Vita Lea, I used a antioxidents A, C and E…B-Complex for stress.  Calcium Magnesium for muscles to work more efficiently. (E gets rid of scar tissue).  Alfalfa for inflammation and then I added Optiflora because it puts the good bacteria back into the colon.(bifidus and achidophilis). I swear that I am totally well.  But I do not eat at fast food places or use dairy products.  I only use Shaklee products. Bonnie

Response:

Welcome back Bonny I also avoid dairy products because it causes problem with my UC. And I generally use ’soy milk’ or ‘rice milk’ as a substitute. However, I have had good results from following my doctor’s orders. And, contrary to several other people on this ng, I believe I have a very good doctor who addresses my situation, who takes the time to listen to me and do a through exam. He took me off sulfasalazine when I was have a problem with it and switched me to Pentasa, which seems to work very well for me without side effects. I also take a number of vitamins including some that you mentioned. Contrary to several other replies you have received already, I do not consider this post to be advertising. You have told of your experience and what helped you. Howard PS: You do understand that there were several reps. that posted here since you were here last, who were quite rude, at least in my opinion. So there has got to be some left over hostility because of that.

Response:

I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness. I had Crohn’s disease for 14 years and am quite well.  No more cramping, bleeding, diarrhea for me. I went with the best supplementation company I could find and went on a program and healed my body.

Bonnie,     First, my apologies to the rest of the group.  I have a weakness in my personality that makes me unable to resist a troll.  In general, I think responding to these posts is a bad idea.  More specifically, I think that squabbling about potential remedies on a SUPPORT group is a particularly bad idea. If somebody is legitimately suffering from IBD, and has had good results with anything – traditional meds, herbs, acupuncture, whatever,  then share it with us.  However, I really resent mislabeled advertising.  I think the group’s FAQ’s make exactly this distinction.  However, a couple points in response to Bonnie:     1)    I really don’t believe your story.  Who knows, it could     be true.  On the other hand, it is inherently implausible.     As most of the folks here know, there are few magic     remedies for CD.  I don’t have any idea whether you ever     had Crohn’s – for all I know you could have had an episode     of viral diarrhea.  Anybody with Internet access can post     anything.  While I believe almost everybody here, very few     of the rest of them are selling anything.     2)    Even if your story is true, it proves nothing.  IBD has     a fluctuating course.  People get worse and then get better,     often without any obvious cause.  The association between     your alleged improvement and the use of certain vitamins     may have been nothing but coincidence.  People also tend     to get better when they take something that they believe     may be efficacious – the placebo effect.  The placebo effect     is very real.     3)    The only scientifically valid way to prove efficacy of     an intervention is by a clinical trial – preferably one that     is randomized and controlled.  A clinical trial in humans     suffering from a given disease is usually the only way to     prove that an intervention gives better results than standard     treatment.  Theoretic reasoning, laboratory models, or     animal trials may give interesting insights, but the medical     literature is replete with examples of great pre-clinical     theories that were found wanting in clinical trials.     4)    Performing a clinical trial is VERY difficult.  Assume that     your vitamin company really wanted to do a study of the     efficacy of nutritional intervention in IBD.  They would     have to write a protocol which would define, among other     things, what patients would participate, what the standard     treatment would be, and what intervention would be used.     They’d also have to decide who’d be excluded.  For example,     would they use people with IBD who were also dying of     cancer?  How about pregnant women or nursing moms?     They’d then have to decide how to assess response.  Would     you do repeat endoscopy, lab measurements, or patient     reports of symptoms?   Once your company had a protocol,     you’d have to draft a consent form for the subjects, and then     have the protocol and the consent form     approved by the Institutional Review Board or boards     supervising the research.  I sit on one of these, and they     are not rubber stamps – you’d have to get a researcher to     present the protocol to the IRB, and then go back and make     changes required by the IRB.  Once the study was underway     they’d have to collect data.  Once the study was complete     they’d have to have a statistician analyze the data, write up     the results, submit it to a peer-reviewed medical journal,     undertake the editing process.     5)    I’ve asked before if your company has performed any     clinical trials in IBD.  If there is a reference I’d be thrilled to     take a look at it.                                                         MartyBL

Response:

And as I posted on this topic before, If Shaklee’s so great, why did the CEO die of cancer about two months ago and he was only about 49? Obviously the product didn’t save him, did it??? MM

Response:

I always get beaten up when I come on here and talk wellness.

Of course, you’ve concluded that none of the following apply: – that you might have done anything that violates the charter of the group, like refusing to mark these Shaklee promotions of yours with AD in the subject line – that it has taken posting after posting to get you to spit out what suppliments that you actually used – that you asked us to repost responses to you instead of searching for them at deja.com – that many people here feel offense at people who post testimonials that may result in sales of things they have to sell – that you make claims to a unique approach that is not unique in the product literature at all Shaklee might have helped with your physical state.  Do they have anything that might help increase the accuracy of your understanding of reality? — Jason Smith Coping with IBD? Me too! – check out http://www.passport.ca/~pax Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I am fairly new to this NG, but I’ve seen quite a bit of posting regarding Shaklee products.  I’m puzzled… I thought it was obvious.  If anyone with IBD really believed their product would help, they would buy it.  Just that simple. Judging by the posts I’ve read, no one here is interested.  As a matter of fact, reaction seems to be just the opposite.  People are irritated by this constant bombardment and now wouldn’t try Shaklee products if they were free.   These begin to sound like religious converts – they’re right and everyone else is wrong.  (Hope none of my fellow IBDers are offended – if so, I apologize.) Love, Mimi (off the soapbox)

Response:

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