My Crohn's and Colitis Blog » Ulcerative Colitis Crohn's » Antibiotics

Antibiotics

Question:

I received a phone call the other day about participating in a study which involved intravenous antibiotics for p. My p is not bad enough for me to be included in the study, but I was wondering about the antibiotic angle. Anyone know where antibiotics fit into a treatment for p? John Stewart

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There is a common belief that P is an autoimmune disorder. If that is true, it raises the question: what is causing the immune system to go ballistic? If it’s being caused by a viral infection, the antibiotic would help to get rid of it. M, BATR.. ..Steve Bilan

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If it’s being caused by a viral infection, the antibiotic would help to get rid of it.

Uh, quick fact check there. Antibiotics kill bacteria. Viral infections are caused by viruses. Viruses are not bacteria. The only defence against a virus is a vaccine – and before you get it.

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Uh, quick fact check there. Antibiotics kill bacteria. Viral infections are caused by viruses. Viruses are not bacteria. The only defence against a virus is a vaccine – and before you get it.

There are a few antivirals around now, for colds good in the first few days, for AIDS best early but working whenever, for herpes after the fact, etc. J.

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Or if the p by itself might be minor, but secondary infections make it worse and keep it going. J.

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There are a few antivirals around now, for colds good in the first few days, for AIDS best early but working whenever, for herpes after the fact, etc.

Oh; acyclovir etc. Well, has anyone spread Zovirax herpes cream on P spots? What happens?

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If it’s being caused by a viral infection, the antibiotic would help to get rid of it.

Uh, quick fact check there. Antibiotics kill bacteria. Viral infections are caused by viruses. Viruses are not bacteria. The only defence against a virus is a vaccine – and before you get it.

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Uh, quick fact check there. Antibiotics kill bacteria. Viral infections are caused by viruses. Viruses are not bacteria. The only defence against a virus is a vaccine – and before you get it.

There are a few antivirals around now, for colds good in the first few days, for AIDS best early but working whenever, for herpes after the fact, etc. J.

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Or if the p by itself might be minor, but secondary infections make it worse and keep it going. J.

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There are a few antivirals around now, for colds good in the first few days, for AIDS best early but working whenever, for herpes after the fact, etc.

Oh; acyclovir etc. Well, has anyone spread Zovirax herpes cream on P spots? What happens?

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I have been taking doxycycine(200 mg daily) for about a month and I haven’t really noticed much of a change, in fact, my condition seems to have gotten worse. Does anyone have an idea how long it takes for an antibiotic to start taking effect? Thanks

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i would say most people usually see effects after 2 months but i woud give it at least 3 months cuz you don’t wanna give up on something that might work for you. when i took minocycline it took 6 months for me to see full effects… that is, have my acne almost completely gone. it was a very slow process.

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What I am going to say now probably contradicts what most dermatologists recommend in the US. My dermatologist believes that if a decent response isn’t seen within 90 days of treatment with antibiotics, it is very likely that you will not see one at all. How valid this ‘idea’ is, I do not know. I guess it is just a matter of going right through the sepcified period, evaluating your condition, and if needed step up your treatment. Considering that you are taking doxycycline (usually a first-line antibiotic), you probably have many options ahead of you. Regards, Clint Dempster

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Try to tough it out for two months. That’s how long it took before my regime of Tetracycline and Retin A started to work…. If you see no improvement at all after two months, then switch to something else. Maurey (remove "no junk" from my address to email me) "Bloom where you’re planted." Fritz Pearl

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My doctor just prescribed me antibiotics to take every day for my back acne(I hardly have any acne on my face, just my back). I’m just wondering how long it should take before I see an improvement. — -Jamie

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The times I have taken antibiotics I have noticed improvement within a couple of weeks. However, 6 to 8 weeks seems to be the most common time estimate. hth, kat – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doctor just prescribed me antibiotics to take every day for my back acne(I hardly have any acne on my face, just my back). I’m just wondering how long it should take before I see an improvement. — -Jamie

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Thanks – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The times I have taken antibiotics I have noticed improvement within a couple of weeks. However, 6 to 8 weeks seems to be the most common time estimate. hth, kat My doctor just prescribed me antibiotics to take every day for my back acne(I hardly have any acne on my face, just my back). I’m just wondering how long it should take before I see an improvement. — -Jamie

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I am a 30 year old male who didn’t have problems with acne until my early 20’s. I have been to three doctors and have stuck with this last one for almost 5 years now because what he was doing seemed to work for the most part. I take the antibiotic Monodox (one pill per day) and was using Cleocin (a topical antibiotic) on my face twice a day. Since it’s clear.. no one could tell. I also have benzoyl perozide, etc for spotting, etc. My skin is very fair and reacts very poorly to retin A, etc. My acne never stopped… but it was pretty much under control. But, in early March, things went bad. I started to break out again in areas I hadn’t in years.. my forehead, cheeks, etc. I returned to the doctor and told him we WERE changing treatments. He agreed, but didn’t do anything as radical as I had hoped. He has kept my oral antibiotic the same, but switched the topical to EMGEL. This stuff has an alcohol base is seems pretty strong. I have been one it for a little less than a week. The first few days I broke out even more, but it now seems to be getting better (all I have is blemishes that are healing… not coming out). I am hopefull, but am so tired of having to hide my face.. I’m too old for this (at least it feels that way). Had anyone else had luck with Monodox? EMGEL? Etc. I’d really appreciate your comments. My doctor refuses to use Differin, Retin-A Micro or Accutane. —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

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I take the antibiotic Monodox (one pill per day) and was using Cleocin (a topical antibiotic) on my face twice a day. Since it’s clear.. no one could tell. He has kept my oral antibiotic the same, but switched the topical to EMGEL

Dumb move. Makes no sense whatsoever. My doctor refuses to use Differin, Retin-A Micro or Accutane.

Your doctor needs to redo his residency. If I were your doctor, this is what I would have you do: 1. Up your minocycline dose to 100 mg b.i.d. 2. Ditch the topical antibiotic and replace it with Benzac W 2.5% gel in the mornings 3. Use Differin or Retin-A Micro (depending on the characterization of your lesions) in the evening. If your acne was not GONE by week 12, then I would put you on a low dose course of Accutane. There are way too many pansy ass dermatologists out there who fuck around with patients ($) instead of getting some balls, and treating this disease with some authority.

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here is a theory on antibiotics, do they work or not for acne. I know there will probably be arguments on both sides of the tracks. My experience was they worked only while I was taking them but as soon as I stopped taking them the acne would be back. here is the theory the antibiotic was killing all of the beasties ( as one poster put it, I like this better than parasites) it could reach, (by blood movement), but there had to be a safe haven in the body that the beasties could live without the antibiotic getting to them so that they could quickly recover after the antibiotic was gone. If you think about this it has to be a nutrient rich location where the blood doesnt go. The watse material in the colon and intestines. we already know that the colon has the largest bacteria colonies in the body ( in most people) the antibiotics would not reach the bacteria living in the waste material in the colon, ( the perfect safe haven), if you read about the colon and the movement of waste material in the colon in some people with low fiber diets and pour bowel movements, it has been estimated that some waste can stay in the colon for months, especially if there is diverticulitis, or mucous buildup (just like in your drain pipes) on the colon walls due to pour diet. this COULD explain why the acne can return so fast after the antibiotic is stopped. Here is my proposal, those of you on antibiotics, that are seeing some positive effects, add a colon cleaner ( fiber and herbal) to your routine, do some research, on the web or at a health store, make sure that there will be no side effects, and see if this helps get rid of the beasties for good. I know it will NOT get rid of the oily skin, that is a different problem but it may get rid of the beasties. Also, You must always replenish your good bacteria in the intestine after taking any antibiotics, take acidopholis to do this.

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Granted, this area is a large reservoir of bacteria, but your skin is also quite inaccessable to many antibiotics, unless they are specifically concentrated in the sweat or skin oils. I suspect that systemic antibiotics greatly lower the population of surface bacteria, but do not eliminate them. The hold-outs being the most immune ones and the ones best able to go dormant and wait on the inert parts of the body surface. Then when the antibiotics are reduced (or when the small populations build up sufficient resistance) the growth of irritating species flourish. I look at the surfaces of the body (internal and external) as ecosystems that have many living things struggling for space and resources. Healthy skin has a balance of nonirritating types while unheatlhy skin has a bloom of some types that stimulate skin oil (probably one of their prime nutrients) and various kinds of inflamation. You can try to change the situation by altering your body chemistry (and therefore the conditions that affect the balance) through diet, systemic drugs (accutane, antibiotics), topical drugs, or the direct importation of desirable species (acidopholous). But all approaches are just different ways of adjusting a comples ecosystem. Napalm and nuclear weapons have immediate and dramatic effects, but long lasting change requires something more. I have heard that the number of cells in and on your body that do not have human DNA exceed the number that do. You are a walking planet as far as these beings are concerned. John Popelish

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How does bacteria from the colon affect your face? I just don’t see how bacteria in the colon could travel to your face, and cause acne…

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How does bacteria from the colon affect your face? I just don’t see how bacteria in the colon could travel to your face, and cause acne…

I can’t picture it, either. I am not sure I even want to picture it. Jon Popelish

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on a microscopic level anything can possibly go anywhere throughout your body tissues, through the blood stream, through the lymph system, through capilary action, osmosis, or by its own form of locamotion, etc. … in the microscopic world, cell walls have large enough gaps between them that many substances can pass through the gaps of the cell walls (life itself depends upon this fact), that is one of the problems with todays medicine they dont look at the body as a whole, all of the doctors are too specialized. I agree that there are many small ecosystems throughtout the body but to say that the ecosystem of the colon and intestines does not affect the other ecosystems throughout the body is absurd. your digestive tract is one of the most important systems in the body, and is more likely to affect the entire body than any other system, after all the digestive system does feed the entire body, and to say that antibiotics CANT get to the skin is like saying that the water you drink or the nutients in the food you eat cant get there either. remember there has to be a path from the digestive tract to EVERY part of the body or you would not be alive today. true some antibiotics may not affect the bacteria itself but that doesnt mean that the antibiotic didnt get to the skin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does bacteria from the colon affect your face? I just don’t see how bacteria in the colon could travel to your face, and cause acne… I can’t picture it, either. I am not sure I even want to picture it. Jon Popelish

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It sounds like you have a concept of the body as a hole. Sorry. What you say is true, at least as a possibility, but the body is not just a sponge. It has an immune system that generally keeps the foreighners in their place. Oyherwise, there would be no point washing your hands after wiping your ass. The germs would just pop out of your fingers anyway. Since basic hygene has been shown to slow the spread of infectious disease, most of the bugs in your large intestine stay there or are left behind. I agree that there are many small ecosystems throughtout the body but to say that the ecosystem of the colon and intestines does not affect the other ecosystems throughout the body is absurd.

I didn’t say they have no effects on the rest of the body. I am saying that the body is pretty good at containing them where they are. your digestive tract is one of the most important systems in the body, and is more likely to affect the entire body than any other system, after all the digestive system does feed the entire body, and to say that antibiotics CANT get to the skin is like saying that the water you drink or the nutients in the food you eat cant get there either.

The food I eat has no purpose on my skin, because it is a dead layer of squamous cells. This is what makes it such a good hiding place from drugs in your circulation. remember there has to be a path from the digestive tract to EVERY part of the body or you would not be alive today.

Only the live parts. your immune system does not combat bacteria on your hair, either. true some antibiotics may not affect the bacteria itself but that doesnt mean that the antibiotic didnt get to the skin.

Unless the skin excretes it, it may not reach nearly the concentration on your skin as it does in living tissue. John Popelish

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We both have points of view that are correct. the body does have immune barriers to prevent the bateria from going one place to another, but it is possible that they can travel throughout the entire body, when the immune system is weak, My point is to cleanse as much bacteria out of the body, even if you dont believe the bacteria from the intestines can reach the skin, I m not going to prove this to you nomatter what I say. But you have to agree by cleansing your colon of "bad" bacteria you are helping your body by relieving some of the stress of fighting bacteria throughout your entire body. think about how much infection your body is fighting on a daily basis, with the acne alone, not counting all of the other invaders in the body. Your body at the same time is trying to repair and heal all of the infections, cleansing your colon may not be eliminating the bacteria causing the acne but it is lowering the stress on the body.

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Absolutely I am using the body cleansing system alongside H&S on the skin – a kind of mixture of both Kramer and John’s concepts. With utterly amazing success (thanks to both of you). I don’t care whether it is the mixture of both, or just one or the other. I am quite happy to keep on killing these beasties whether they are living on my face, or inside my intestines. In either case, I didn’t invite them, and I seem to be getting along very nicely without them hitching a ride. )) Is anyone else trying either/both of these ideas?

Mike, please keep notes and summarize your experience for me when you think it appropriate. Thanks. John Popelish

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We both have points of view that are correct

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We both have points of view that are correct Absolutely I am using the body cleansing system alongside H&S on the skin – a kind of mixture of both Kramer and John’s concepts. With utterly amazing success (thanks to both of you). I don’t care whether it is the mixture of both, or just one or the other. I am quite happy to keep on killing these beasties whether they are living on my face, or inside my intestines. In either case, I didn’t invite them, and I seem to be getting along very nicely without them hitching a ride. )) Is anyone else trying either/both of these ideas?

This seems like an opportune moment to post how the H & S treatment has been working for me so far. I’ve been using it to try to clear back acne. After reading John’s ideas I started to use it about 15 days ago, although not exactly in the way that he suggested (I didn’t like the thought of the irritation that some posters reported). What I do is this; I squirt about 2 tablespoonfuls into my bathwater and soak in it for about 30 or 40 minutes. When I come out of the bath I leave myself to ‘drip dry’ rather than towel dry. The idea here is that a residual amount will dry onto my skin and carry on doing whatever it does, but in a small enough quantity not to be irritating. I have been doing this every day for the past 15 days and there has been a measurable improvement – at least 50% , but probably a little higher than that . I don’t know if the improvement will continue but I’ll certainly keep following this regime for the time being, and I’ll report on its progress in another few weeks or so. btw it’s not bad for dandruff either ) good luck Jambo

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This seems like an opportune moment to post how the H & S treatment has been working for me so far. I’ve been using it to try to clear back acne. After reading John’s ideas I started to use it about 15 days ago, although not exactly in the way that he suggested (I didn’t like the thought of the irritation that some posters reported). What I do is this; I squirt about 2 tablespoonfuls into my bathwater and soak in it for about 30 or 40 minutes. When I come out of the bath I leave myself to ‘drip dry’ rather than towel dry. The idea here is that a residual amount will dry onto my skin and carry on doing whatever it does, but in a small enough quantity not to be irritating. I have been doing this every day for the past 15 days and there has been a measurable improvement – at least 50% , but probably a little higher than that . I don’t know if the improvement will continue but I’ll certainly keep following this regime for the time being, and I’ll report on its progress in another few weeks or so. btw it’s not bad for dandruff either ) good luck Jambo

This is a very interesting experimant. I have no real idea what the optimum concentration versus exposure time is for something like acne. I do know that if I don’t rinse absolutely all of it off, it makes my skin feel tight and itchy. But I also have very hard water, not city water. What is your water source? John Popelish

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The water is hard where I am too. Although I use a filter for drinking it, the bathwater is pretty much as it comes out of the tap! Jambo

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Mike, do you add water to the H&S first, or put it on straight from the bottle? And, how often?

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Mike, do you add water to the H&S first, or put it on straight from the bottle? And, how often?

I’m not doing this exactly to recommendation…. It should be something you only need to do VERY occasionally – maybe once only. But I left the stuff on my face nearly an hour (I think that this will be too long for most people – I was already washing my face in H&S before I tried this). I put it on straight from the bottle, onto clean dry skin. The first time, I did some very serious peeling, and I’ve done it a few times since – at the point where I get that first ‘itchy’ feeling in my scalp. I figured that if the bacteria causing dandruff have returned, then so might the ones on the face. It may be a case of experimentation for you, but I would suggest that you leave it on your face for the least possible time, rather than overdo it and have real problems. If nothing else, you should get a very pleasant, clean sensation afterwards. If you do get peeling then take this to be a good sign, it’s performing a kind of dermabrasion and after 2/3 days you will have a very clean fresh complexion – and if your skins respond like mine did, you won’t see any new zits either! Good luck – I hope it works for you, but be careful that you don’t overdo it.

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I can’t see the beginning o fthis thread. What do you refer ass the "beasties", are you talking about regular acne ? Also, I’ve never heard of the H&S what is it ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We both have points of view that are correct Absolutely I am using the body cleansing system alongside H&S on the skin – a kind of mixture of both Kramer and John’s concepts. With utterly amazing success (thanks to both of you). I don’t care whether it is the mixture of both, or just one or the other. I am quite happy to keep on killing these beasties whether they are living on my face, or inside my intestines. In either case, I didn’t invite them, and I seem to be getting along very nicely without them hitching a ride. )) Is anyone else trying either/both of these ideas?

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I can’t see the beginning o fthis thread. What do you refer ass the "beasties", are you talking about regular acne ? Also, I’ve never heard of the H&S what is it ?

I think I started this. You can review all by going to www.deja.com and searching ‘popelish and alt.skincare.acne’. But to recap. I had very bad dandruff (sebhorric dermatitus?) for years and then others in the family got it. I experimanted with many things until I tried using a zinc pyrithione shampoo (Head & Shoulders regular is am example and what H&S referrs to) as a lotion to saok my skin for about a half hour before bathing. (note, some peole’s skin is very sensitive to this active ingredient, so start out with 5 minutes or so and double the time each trial until you find your sensitivity threshold.) The concept is that this powerful antimicribial agent does not have time to diffuse into the oil in your pores in the brief contact time of a bath, but a longer application will reach effective concentration. (and too long an exposure begins to kill skin). We applied this method every thirs night for three applications, and it just about cured us of all symptoms. Oh, I forgot to mention that if you don’t rinse absolutely all of it off, it leaves your skin tight and itchy the next day. Anyway, with such wonderful result I got to thinking about what else one might do with such an effective topical biocidal solution. I came here to ask if anyone suffering from acne would be willing to try it on their pimples and several have done so, with a couple reporting back to me so far with pretty good results. I haven’t heard from all who said they would give it a try, so I can’t give you statistics. I am not at all sure that there is no connection between dandruff and acne, so I suggest that if you use this on your face, treat your scalp also, to deplete ant reservoir or bacteria that might reside there. I have had one recurrance of my skin problem since I began this, but this method knocked it out again the same way. I am now experimenting with using a little salt solution after my baths to encourage beneficial "beasties" to live on my skin and defend me from troublemakers. So far, this is working well, with the added benefit that my pits smell better than before, with no deoderant. I may be looking for some lab rats to test this soon. I don’t see this chemical as a good skin maintenance product, because of the powerful nature of the active ingredient. I see it as a way to get things under control so that you can reestablish a heathful balance of bacteria that will give you a more long term skin health. You might think you are clean after a bath, but there are still millions of "beasties" living on your surface and the most you can do about it is encourage those that get along with you to multiply. Think of your skin as a vast heard of sheep. You can encourage sheep dogs or wolves. They are very similar but react to sheep very differently and they don’t get along with each other. Sorry. Just trying to get used to the idea that I am a planet to these critters. Let me know if you can’t find my earlier posts at Deja. I will also try to answer any questions you post here. This is turning out to be very interesting. Oh, and if you decide to try something like this (everybody seems to think up a new twist) please post or email your experiences to me, so tha I can study them. Thanks. Boy, for a recap that was pretty big. John Popelish

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Could you change the title of your postings to something more meaningful, John. I only hit on this thread by accident. Something like "Zinc pyrithione as antibiotic". I am developing my own regimen for dealing with my rosacea, which seems to be showing some success. If my breakouts are kept under control I will publish to this newsgroup. If my method fails, I will experiment with zinc pyrithione. My last resort will be the antibiotics prescribed by the doctor. Gordian

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Sorry about the poor thread title. I didn’t start it, but just added a comment or two along the way. You might go to www.deja.com and review the entire thread. I will try to put something descriptive in any thread I originate. John Popelish

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damaged immune system, cystic acne (tetracycline), damage to hair. Most of you will get better, but regardless of medicines. As for me, due to suffering the side effects listed my condition has now, at 29, become more like rosacea, and I’m gradually just going to rot physically. You’re warned.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – psychosis and paranoia What are long term side effects of them also? I heard somewhere that they can damage your kidneys. aaron

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Low dose antiobiotics generally are well tolerated, some people have taken safely for 10-20 years. One of the most popular is minocycline as it has low side effects and can be taken with food ( tetracycline has to be taken on an empty stomach). It can make you more prone to yeast infections (worse with females) and doesn’t work well for severe acne in most cases.

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I’m taking 2*250 mg of erythroycin ……. nothing bad at all … just stomach upsets which leads to unexpected outbursts of green green gas .. hmm …. eheh it’s true – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are some side effects of antibiotics? I am currently on amoxil 500mg Does anyone know what antibiotic works best for the most amount of people? My doc said that some work better some people and others work better for other people. I am wondering if there is one that works for a majority of people. Aaron

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What are some side effects of antibiotics? I am currently on amoxil 500mg Does anyone know what antibiotic works best for the most amount of people? My doc said that some work better some people and others work better for other people. I am wondering if there is one that works for a majority of people. Aaron

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What are long term side effects of them also? I heard somewhere that they can damage your kidneys. aaron

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psychosis and paranoia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are long term side effects of them also? I heard somewhere that they can damage your kidneys. aaron

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I have NEVER missed a dose …. only delayed an intake by 2-3 hours because of school activities … i dont’ think any o the bacteria have been eliminated at all – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well see, the doc is banking on the fact that you will never miss a dose. Why? Because if u dont miss any doses, your chances of developing resistant bacteria are lessened. If all the non-immune bacteria are killed, the immune bacteria cannot spread its immunity genes to the non-immune ones. What’s REALLY the point in taking antibiotics anyways ??? First of all, you get immune to them, so they are basically ineffective after like 4-6 months or so. Secondly, once you stop taking them, your acne flares back, and often (from a few posts) are wrose because your body can’t deal with the now stronger strain of P. acne bacteria. Thirdly, antibiotics lowers your body’s immune system’s ablity to fight TEMPORARY treatments for acne …. My erythromycin tablets are running low, so i DONT’ know whether i should continue or not or just get ACCUTANE. I still get 1 pustules/papules liek every 4-5 days. I mean, i have mild – moderate inflammatroy acne right now …. maybe I should opt for Accutane if my GP just gives me more erythromycin. I seriously don’t WANT to be DEPENDENT on antibiotics … or else, once i stop, my body will NOT be abel to fight acne bacteria anymore. So HAS anyone’s acne came FLARING back once they stopped taking antibiotics ? thxn foryou input. So far DENESH has expereince acne flareups after stopping … that’s 1 – 0

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well see, the doc is banking on the fact that you will never miss a dose. Why? Because if u dont miss any doses, your chances of developing resistant bacteria are lessened. If all the non-immune bacteria are killed, the immune bacteria cannot spread its immunity genes to the non-immune ones. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s REALLY the point in taking antibiotics anyways ??? First of all, you get immune to them, so they are basically ineffective after like 4-6 months or so. Secondly, once you stop taking them, your acne flares back, and often (from a few posts) are wrose because your body can’t deal with the now stronger strain of P. acne bacteria. Thirdly, antibiotics lowers your body’s immune system’s ablity to fight TEMPORARY treatments for acne …. My erythromycin tablets are running low, so i DONT’ know whether i should continue or not or just get ACCUTANE. I still get 1 pustules/papules liek every 4-5 days. I mean, i have mild – moderate inflammatroy acne right now …. maybe I should opt for Accutane if my GP just gives me more erythromycin. I seriously don’t WANT to be DEPENDENT on antibiotics … or else, once i stop, my body will NOT be abel to fight acne bacteria anymore. So HAS anyone’s acne came FLARING back once they stopped taking antibiotics ? thxn foryou input. So far DENESH has expereince acne flareups after stopping … that’s 1 – 0

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THose of you who take antibiotics and see some temporary relief are missing the most important part of antibiotic therapy. You have to take probiotics during and for at least a month after the treatment to get your intestinal flora back to normal or else the infectious bacteria will come back in full force and it will be worse because the bacteria left will be immune to the antibiotics you just ingested. If you supplement with probiotics the "good" flora will help fight the "bad" and recolonize your intestines and produce their own antibiotics and wage war on the bad for their own survival. Do some reading on intestinal flora. All of the recent studies suggest that flora plays an equal role with the immune system in fighting off infections and invaders. Your intestinal flora is one of your first lines of defense against invaders in the digestive track. If you have killed all forms of bacteria by taking antibiotics you have just killed your first line of defense against bacteria attack from the food and water you eat & drink. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s REALLY the point in taking antibiotics anyways ??? First of all, you get immune to them, so they are basically ineffective after like 4-6 months or so. Secondly, once you stop taking them, your acne flares back, and often (from a few posts) are wrose because your body can’t deal with the now stronger strain of P. acne bacteria. Thirdly, antibiotics lowers your body’s immune system’s ablity to fight TEMPORARY treatments for acne …. My erythromycin tablets are running low, so i DONT’ know whether i should continue or not or just get ACCUTANE. I still get 1 pustules/papules liek every 4-5 days. I mean, i have mild – moderate inflammatroy acne right now …. maybe I should opt for Accutane if my GP just gives me more erythromycin. I seriously don’t WANT to be DEPENDENT on antibiotics … or else, once i stop, my body will NOT be abel to fight acne bacteria anymore. So HAS anyone’s acne came FLARING back once they stopped taking antibiotics ? thxn foryou input. So far DENESH has expereince acne flareups after stopping … that’s 1 – 0

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What’s REALLY the point in taking antibiotics anyways ??? First of all, you get immune to them, so they are basically ineffective after like 4-6 months or so. Secondly, once you stop taking them, your acne flares back, and often (from a few posts) are wrose because your body can’t deal with the now stronger strain of P. acne bacteria. Thirdly, antibiotics lowers your body’s immune system’s ablity to fight TEMPORARY treatments for acne …. My erythromycin tablets are running low, so i DONT’ know whether i should continue or not or just get ACCUTANE. I still get 1 pustules/papules liek every 4-5 days. I mean, i have mild – moderate inflammatroy acne right now …. maybe I should opt for Accutane if my GP just gives me more erythromycin. I seriously don’t WANT to be DEPENDENT on antibiotics … or else, once i stop, my body will NOT be abel to fight acne bacteria anymore. So HAS anyone’s acne came FLARING back once they stopped taking antibiotics ? thxn foryou input. So far DENESH has expereince acne flareups after stopping … that’s 1 – 0

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I think (and this is really only a guess,) since most people who get *normal* acne in their teens will clear up eventually, the antibiotics may be something they can rely on to help keep their skin more clear during the worst of it. Later, as they grow older, about the same time the antibiotic might lose its affect they are nearly over the acne anyway. I haven’t seen anyone post here yet who said, "Wow! The antibiotics I took in Hi School really worked for me! I quite taking them right after I graduated, and now that I’m a sophomore in college my skin is almost completely clear!" We just don’t see those folks here for obvious reasons, and there are more of them than there are of us. On the other hand, I’ve seen several who have come here with their first breakouts in their mid- to late-twenties, after having picture-perfect skin all their lives. TurboP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What’s REALLY the point in taking antibiotics anyways ??? First of all, you get immune to them, so they are basically ineffective after like 4-6 months or so. Secondly, once you stop taking them, your acne flares back, and often (from a few posts) are wrose because your body can’t deal with the now stronger strain of P. acne bacteria. Thirdly, antibiotics lowers your body’s immune system’s ablity to fight TEMPORARY treatments for acne …. My erythromycin tablets are running low, so i DONT’ know whether i should continue or not or just get ACCUTANE. I still get 1 pustules/papules liek every 4-5 days. I mean, i have mild – moderate inflammatroy acne right now …. maybe I should opt for Accutane if my GP just gives me more erythromycin. I seriously don’t WANT to be DEPENDENT on antibiotics … or else, once i stop, my body will NOT be abel to fight acne bacteria anymore. So HAS anyone’s acne came FLARING back once they stopped taking antibiotics ? thxn foryou input. So far DENESH has expereince acne flareups after stopping … that’s 1 – 0

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Thanx for the reassurance TurboP ; ) I hope its a case of teen acne, because the antibiotics are starting to take a toll on my boody. recent, i’ve been getting small reddish and itchy bumps all over my body (like 1 new one each day), but they fade away after 1 day or so w/o any medication. Also, my stomach is starting to complain against the medicine …. eugh ; ( Okee, I’ll keep you guys posted on my progress with antibiotics in my logs. ooo, and i found a better BP cream than persagel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think (and this is really only a guess,) since most people who get *normal* acne in their teens will clear up eventually, the antibiotics may be something they can rely on to help keep their skin more clear during the worst of it. Later, as they grow older, about the same time the antibiotic might lose its affect they are nearly over the acne anyway. I haven’t seen anyone post here yet who said, "Wow! The antibiotics I took in Hi School really worked for me! I quite taking them right after I graduated, and now that I’m a sophomore in college my skin is almost completely clear!" We just don’t see those folks here for obvious reasons, and there are more of them than there are of us. On the other hand, I’ve seen several who have come here with their first breakouts in their mid- to late-twenties, after having picture-perfect skin all their lives. TurboP

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Dumb move. Makes no sense whatsoever. My doctor refuses to use Differin, Retin-A Micro or Accutane.

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How does bacteria from the colon affect your face? I just don’t see how bacteria in the colon could travel to your face, and cause acne…

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How does bacteria from the colon affect your face? I just don’t see how bacteria in the colon could travel to your face, and cause acne…

I can’t picture it, either. I am not sure I even want to picture it. Jon Popelish

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Unless the skin excretes it, it may not reach nearly the concentration on your skin as it does in living tissue. John Popelish

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Mike, please keep notes and summarize your experience for me when you think it appropriate. Thanks. John Popelish

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We both have points of view that are correct

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The water is hard where I am too. Although I use a filter for drinking it, the bathwater is pretty much as it comes out of the tap! Jambo

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Mike, do you add water to the H&S first, or put it on straight from the bottle? And, how often?

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Mike, do you add water to the H&S first, or put it on straight from the bottle? And, how often?

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I can’t see the beginning o fthis thread. What do you refer ass the "beasties", are you talking about regular acne ? Also, I’ve never heard of the H&S what is it ?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – psychosis and paranoia What are long term side effects of them also? I heard somewhere that they can damage your kidneys. aaron

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What are long term side effects of them also? I heard somewhere that they can damage your kidneys. aaron

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psychosis and paranoia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What are long term side effects of them also? I heard somewhere that they can damage your kidneys. aaron

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re there any other antibiotics besides Flagyl that can be used to treat a perianal fissure.

Yes Steve ask about CIPRO. Usually with Flagyl and Cipro you will heal faster Paula619

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Hi Everyone This is my first post. I’ve been reading for a few days now and I’d like to ask a question. Are there any other antibiotics besides Flagyl that can be used to treat a perianal fissure. I was hospitalized for a few days last week for intense pain in my abdomen fro gas pressure. This was new to me as my Crohn’s disease usually never has pain, just bloodly stools. My new GI doctor said it was caused by the perianal fissure. I had a CAT scan and he said my small bowel showed no active disease, but the rectal area of the colon showed residual fluid. The Flagyl is hard on my stomach and leaves a horrible metalic taste in my mouth. I was hoping there might be other antibiotics out there that would help with the fissure without these side effects. Just a brief history about myself, I started having symptoms of Crohns at age 17, and I was diagnosed at age 23 when I had a large abdomal abcess and needed a small bowel resection (I lost about 13 inches of bowel). I have been in remission for the most part until last year and I’ve had several flares since then, and trying to get over one now. I take the regular meds, Zantac, Asacol, Imuran, and Prednisone when I have a flare. Thanks for any input from the group and I’ll try to help anyone else with questions if I can. Steve

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My GI in Maryland put me on Cipro for 10 days. Its been almost a week and it hasn’t done shit. Has anyone taken this before and what happened for their UC conditions. To me, I guess that means my "thingie" is not infected by a bacteria or virus, right? God has blessed all of us. Remember that. Kashif, 21 and UC for 5 years. (Wow, thats a long time.:)) I have been on and off Cipro for about two years. Depending on what kind of infection you have, it can be very effective. It covers many types of organisms, and can usually kill them in a ten day period. If it’s not doing "shit", I suggest you call your GI Dr. Greg 21, Crohn’s for 6 years

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I use to go on CIPRO and it would help me for short period of time. I think I was taking 500mg 2-3x per day. Does that sound right. Have you ever tried Flagyl? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My GI in Maryland put me on Cipro for 10 days. Its been almost a week and it hasn’t done shit. Has anyone taken this before and what happened for their UC conditions. To me, I guess that means my "thingie" is not infected by a bacteria or virus, right? God has blessed all of us. Remember that. Kashif, 21 and UC for 5 years. (Wow, thats a long time.:))

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I use to go on CIPRO and it would help me for short period of time. I think I was taking 500mg 2-3x per day. Does that sound right. Have you ever tried Flagyl?

Hmmmm..and it was the Cipro that made me sick! I was fine all my life til I took Cipro (for a uninary tract infection), then have been sick for 3 months with what the doctor thought was IBS, but has turned out to be Clostridium Difficile (I made the diagnosis myself and suggested the test). I’m being treated with Flagyl, which hopefully will help, but I don’t recommend taking ANY antibiotic unless you are taking it for something specific. It can kill off good bacteria, leaving your gut in bad shape. charlotte sometimes

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I’ve had a couple of goes on a wide-band antibiotic (Metronidazol – probably not spelled like that). Side effects not good, but that and bedrest have helped before. Andrew, Crohns for 25 years

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Cipro does wonders for my IBD, the last time I was on it I could eat more things than I had been able to in years, but unfortunately I too eventually got a c.diff. infection from it. Antibiotics just weren’t meant to be taken long term, although some people can get away with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I use to go on CIPRO and it would help me for short period of time. I think I was taking 500mg 2-3x per day. Does that sound right. Have you ever tried Flagyl? Hmmmm..and it was the Cipro that made me sick! I was fine all my life til I took Cipro (for a uninary tract infection), then have been sick for 3 months with what the doctor thought was IBS, but has turned out to be Clostridium Difficile (I made the diagnosis myself and suggested the test). I’m being treated with Flagyl, which hopefully will help, but I don’t recommend taking ANY antibiotic unless you are taking it for something specific. It can kill off good bacteria, leaving your gut in bad shape. charlotte sometimes

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I’ve had a couple of goes on a wide-band antibiotic (Metronidazol – probably not spelled like that). Side effects not good, but that and bedrest have helped before.

This is more commonly know as Flagyl. —john. — — Railroad Enthusiast – Pipe Organ Owner – Software Engineer –

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I’m just starting Cipro for first time (bacterial infection from fistula). Can’t tolerate metronodizonale (sp? – ei, flagyl). Wondering how long most are on Cipro? Carla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cipro does wonders for my IBD, the last time I was on it I could eat more things than I had been able to in years, but unfortunately I too eventually got a c.diff. infection from it. Antibiotics just weren’t meant to be taken long term, a

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Good points. I also read an article saying that researchers believe there may be 300-400 different types of bacteria in the gut. That is why it has been so hard to classify them. There are, however, ones that are known to be pathogenic. Some researchers believe that even in a healthy gut the good bacteria may only make up 30%. If that is true then taking antibiotics may cause more harm then good if you kill off them good ones first. Also there are different antibiotics that are designed to target different bacteria. You can have tests done on your stool to determine if you have an over abundance of one of a number of known pathogenic bacteria. If your tests show an imbalance your doctor can prescribe the correct antibiotic for you. My doctor recommended I take probiotics while taking antibiotics. That way I could replenish the good bacteria while hopefully killing off the bad ones. If you just take antibiotics you also run the risk of having imune strains of bacteria developing and that’s not a good situation either Anyway, I’ve been away from the ng for a while but just got some time to check back. – Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all I was told to take anti-biotics several times during my bout with CD. The first time was Flagyl, which I didn’t tolerate well and stopped it after about 3 weeks. I developed a numbing tingling in my hands and feet (peripheral neuropathy) which I knew was one of its possible side-effects. Some people do great with Flagyl. A friend of mine with UC took it and it closed up all but one of his perianal fistulas. He was o it for over 3 years too. I took Cipro or Bactrim(sulfamet/trimeth) on and off for the 4 years between surgeries (95-99). It seems to help some at first, but after a week to 10 days it became less effective. And every course of it became less effective as well. I did some inquiring and found that when I was first diagnosed/hospitalized back in 1989, I was administered IV Flagyl and Fortaz for most of my 15 day stay. And again in 95′ when I fistulated through to my bladder and had my first surgery. The problem with long term antibiotics is that the flora in your intestine are an integral part of our digestion. We need the beneficial bacteria to break down our food to release some of its nutrients. We need the minerals they release from the cellulose they break down in our fruits, vegetables, and grains we eat. Minerals are the base of every function in our bodies. Without the nutrients you require, it’s even less likely that you will get better. Anti-biotics are good sometimes, but they’re no magic bullet. My first doc used to refer to them as a double edged sword. He said the same about prednisone. They’re helpful and necessary at times, but they have their disadvantages too. You can get well! William CD Class of 89-99′

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Hi all I was told to take anti-biotics several times during my bout with CD. The first time was Flagyl, which I didn’t tolerate well and stopped it after about 3 weeks. I developed a numbing tingling in my hands and feet (peripheral neuropathy) which I knew was one of its possible side-effects. Some people do great with Flagyl. A friend of mine with UC took it and it closed up all but one of his perianal fistulas. He was o it for over 3 years too. I took Cipro or Bactrim(sulfamet/trimeth) on and off for the 4 years between surgeries (95-99). It seems to help some at first, but after a week to 10 days it became less effective. And every course of it became less effective as well. I did some inquiring and found that when I was first diagnosed/hospitalized back in 1989, I was administered IV Flagyl and Fortaz for most of my 15 day stay. And again in 95′ when I fistulated through to my bladder and had my first surgery. The problem with long term antibiotics is that the flora in your intestine are an integral part of our digestion. We need the beneficial bacteria to break down our food to release some of its nutrients. We need the minerals they release from the cellulose they break down in our fruits, vegetables, and grains we eat. Minerals are the base of every function in our bodies. Without the nutrients you require, it’s even less likely that you will get better. Anti-biotics are good sometimes, but they’re no magic bullet. My first doc used to refer to them as a double edged sword. He said the same about prednisone. They’re helpful and necessary at times, but they have their disadvantages too. You can get well! William CD Class of 89-99′

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My daughter didn’t get antibiotics for Crohn’s. Anyone else not get antibiotics?

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From personal experience – I do not -Jeff

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Different doctors treat CD flares differently. You may want to ask the GI why your daughter was given none, under what conditions are antibiotics warranted, etc. It may be that the CD has been controlled with a 5ASA drug. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My daughter didn’t get antibiotics for Crohn’s. Anyone else not get antibiotics?

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I take 500 mg per day of Cipro to keep a fistula from getting infected. This is a common prescribing fo Crohn’s. Do all patients get antibiotics for Crohn’s?

Before you buy.

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No in fact very few CD paitents recieve antibiotics for Crohns. Most people just get medication to reduce the symtoms and nothing more. Mike Do all patients get antibiotics for Crohn’s?

Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Make it yourself and save http://www.for-romance.com/sugar

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Do all patients get antibiotics for Crohn’s?

You can read an thorough and very readable review of this subject the following URL http://www.iol.ie/%7ealank/CROHNS/RESEARCH/CHEMO/chiodini.htm Regards, Alan. Before you buy.

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Yes, I believe they do. On the ‘Crohn’s & Colitis Foundation of America’ web site several are listed. http://www.ccfa.org/ (click on ‘Medical Central’ to get to the ‘Library.’ (then click on ‘Library’ to get to ‘Medications.’ The two that are listed there are ‘Metronidazole’(Flagyl) & ‘Ciprofloxacin.’ Howard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do all patients get antibiotics for Crohn’s?

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Do all patients get antibiotics for Crohn’s?

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Cipro did wonders for me also. Since being off of it for the past few weeks I’ve been running to the bathroom like crazy. Flagyl didn’t help my CD but, it helped with my fissure. — Take Care, Sherry Cipro has made a big difference to me. I was 90% better within 10 days of first taking it and when I have stopped have immediately seen decline. I can’t take Flagyl. Knocks me over with nausea – even more nauseated than the CD does at times Dotsie

I have never really gotten an answer to the antibiodic questions, but when Iwas first diagnosed with CD, I had been on a penecillin therapy for 4 years dueto having rheumatic fever…..anywho, the doc thought that was the cause of thecrohns..that the antibiodics had killed my intestinal flora, etc.To this day, I never take antibiodics just because I remember him saying thatand taking me off them immediately.my doc now says there is no roof, but some evidence that may support thattheory….anyone know?Lisa Take me off Cipro and I go right down the tube, I have been on Cipro andflagylfor several years. I am also on pentasa, prednisone, and a bunch of otherstuff as

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Cipro has made a big difference to me. I was 90% better within 10 days of first taking it and when I have stopped have immediately seen decline. I can’t take Flagyl. Knocks me over with nausea – even more nauseated than the CD does at times Dotsie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have never really gotten an answer to the antibiodic questions, but when I was first diagnosed with CD, I had been on a penecillin therapy for 4 years due to having rheumatic fever…..anywho, the doc thought that was the cause of the crohns..that the antibiodics had killed my intestinal flora, etc. To this day, I never take antibiodics just because I remember him saying that and taking me off them immediately. my doc now says there is no roof, but some evidence that may support that theory….anyone know? Lisa Take me off Cipro and I go right down the tube, I have been on Cipro and flagyl for several years. I am also on pentasa, prednisone, and a bunch of other stuff as

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I am going through a flair up right now, my first severe one since I was diagnosed 2yrs ago. I am currently on Pentasa, but my doc just gave me some antibiotics as well. He has me on cipro and some other antibiotic. I alternate each week. Has anyone tried this? Has it worked?

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Take me off Cipro and I go right down the tube, I have been on Cipro and flagyl for several years. I am also on pentasa, prednisone, and a bunch of other stuff as well. The antibiotics work very well. May you have the same good luck – Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going through a flair up right now, my first severe one since I was diagnosed 2yrs ago. I am currently on Pentasa, but my doc just gave me some antibiotics as well. He has me on cipro and some other antibiotic. I alternate each week. Has anyone tried this? Has it worked?

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I have never really gotten an answer to the antibiodic questions, but when I was first diagnosed with CD, I had been on a penecillin therapy for 4 years due to having rheumatic fever…..anywho, the doc thought that was the cause of the crohns..that the antibiodics had killed my intestinal flora, etc. To this day, I never take antibiodics just because I remember him saying that and taking me off them immediately. my doc now says there is no roof, but some evidence that may support that theory….anyone know? Lisa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Take me off Cipro and I go right down the tube, I have been on Cipro and flagyl for several years. I am also on pentasa, prednisone, and a bunch of other stuff as

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I believe antibiotics gave me UC. I spent years taking it as a teenager for spots – and then last year – a course of antibiotics gave me my first flare of UC and i was hospitalised for ages..

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I would not say gave you UC but rather triggered the UC. If you were taking an antibiotic it could (read would) upset the balance of bacteria in your gut. This may have cause the UC to show up. Mike I believe antibiotics gave me UC. I spent years taking it as a teenager for spots – and then last year – a course of antibiotics gave me my first flare of UC and i was hospitalised for ages..

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

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{{{{Linda}}} I pray that soon you’ll be off. mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought so mgbio, <sniff, sniff Hugs, Linda Yes, it’s the pred! mgbio Eluned, I think we, the newsgroup family, and Liz and her family are very fortunate to have you, who seems to be so sensitive to our needs and troubles. So many come and go from our lives without ever really understanding. You are willing to learn about us and our disease(s) and I thank you for your understanding and compassion. Hugs, Linda – who suddenly feels very weepy (is it the prednisone??) My Dr. think that’s what triggered my Crohn’s. I was fine until I had 2 weeks of antibiotics. After my system started a slow yet quick decline starting with my first diagnosis of diverticulitis. UM MOM Susan A pretty well-informed note actually! At this point intestinal bacteria are implicated in a subset, possibly a large subset, of the IBD population, but that’s in combo with genes that predispose to an atypical reaction to that bacteria. So antibiotics could trigger IBD in that subset by changing the mix of intestinal bacteria to one that person can’t tolerate. Which seems to imply that there is indeed a predisposition in each of us to either get or not get certain diseases. Perhaps it’s like genital yeast infections? Some of us will suffer more than others because we have a certain balance of ‘good’ bacteria keeping the candida in check. A course or two of antibiotics will be enough in one person to destroy those good bacteria, resulting in a candidiasis infection, whereas for someone else the same antibiotics will have no such effect. Perhaps the first person has just the right (or wrong, depending on your point of view) acidity or alkalinity to enable the yeast to spread and infect; the other has the amount to prevent it. Is it possible that the same holds true for IBD? Some of us will get it because of antibiotic action in the gut; some of us won’t. Maybe it depends on what is already there, and whether killing off some ‘good’ bacteria along with the bad will be enough to tip the balance in some people whereas for others the small amount of ‘good’ bacteria destroyed can easily be either replaced, or just not noticed by the body’s immune system? All I know is that when I come here and read your stories I really, really wish I had the answers. I’d so love to be able to wave my wand and have all the pain, the humiliation and the sheer inconvenience of IBD go away and stay there. — Eluned, thinking of a little girl whose illness has turned a family’s life upside down and inside out.

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I thought so mgbio, <sniff, sniff Hugs, Linda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes, it’s the pred! mgbio Eluned, I think we, the newsgroup family, and Liz and her family are very fortunate to have you, who seems to be so sensitive to our needs and troubles. So many come and go from our lives without ever really understanding. You are willing to learn about us and our disease(s) and I thank you for your understanding and compassion. Hugs, Linda – who suddenly feels very weepy (is it the prednisone??) My Dr. think that’s what triggered my Crohn’s. I was fine until I had 2 weeks of antibiotics. After my system started a slow yet quick decline starting with my first diagnosis of diverticulitis. UM MOM Susan A pretty well-informed note actually! At this point intestinal bacteria are implicated in a subset, possibly a large subset, of the IBD population, but that’s in combo with genes that predispose to an atypical reaction to that bacteria. So antibiotics could trigger IBD in that subset by changing the mix of intestinal bacteria to one that person can’t tolerate. Which seems to imply that there is indeed a predisposition in each of us to either get or not get certain diseases. Perhaps it’s like genital yeast infections? Some of us will suffer more than others because we have a certain balance of ‘good’ bacteria keeping the candida in check. A course or two of antibiotics will be enough in one person to destroy those good bacteria, resulting in a candidiasis infection, whereas for someone else the same antibiotics will have no such effect. Perhaps the first person has just the right (or wrong, depending on your point of view) acidity or alkalinity to enable the yeast to spread and infect; the other has the amount to prevent it. Is it possible that the same holds true for IBD? Some of us will get it because of antibiotic action in the gut; some of us won’t. Maybe it depends on what is already there, and whether killing off some ‘good’ bacteria along with the bad will be enough to tip the balance in some people whereas for others the small amount of ‘good’ bacteria destroyed can easily be either replaced, or just not noticed by the body’s immune system? All I know is that when I come here and read your stories I really, really wish I had the answers. I’d so love to be able to wave my wand and have all the pain, the humiliation and the sheer inconvenience of IBD go away and stay there. — Eluned, thinking of a little girl whose illness has turned a family’s life upside down and inside out.

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Yes, it’s the pred! mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eluned, I think we, the newsgroup family, and Liz and her family are very fortunate to have you, who seems to be so sensitive to our needs and troubles. So many come and go from our lives without ever really understanding. You are willing to learn about us and our disease(s) and I thank you for your understanding and compassion. Hugs, Linda – who suddenly feels very weepy (is it the prednisone??) My Dr. think that’s what triggered my Crohn’s. I was fine until I had 2 weeks of antibiotics. After my system started a slow yet quick decline starting with my first diagnosis of diverticulitis. UM MOM Susan A pretty well-informed note actually! At this point intestinal bacteria are implicated in a subset, possibly a large subset, of the IBD population, but that’s in combo with genes that predispose to an atypical reaction to that bacteria. So antibiotics could trigger IBD in that subset by changing the mix of intestinal bacteria to one that person can’t tolerate. Which seems to imply that there is indeed a predisposition in each of us to either get or not get certain diseases. Perhaps it’s like genital yeast infections? Some of us will suffer more than others because we have a certain balance of ‘good’ bacteria keeping the candida in check. A course or two of antibiotics will be enough in one person to destroy those good bacteria, resulting in a candidiasis infection, whereas for someone else the same antibiotics will have no such effect. Perhaps the first person has just the right (or wrong, depending on your point of view) acidity or alkalinity to enable the yeast to spread and infect; the other has the amount to prevent it. Is it possible that the same holds true for IBD? Some of us will get it because of antibiotic action in the gut; some of us won’t. Maybe it depends on what is already there, and whether killing off some ‘good’ bacteria along with the bad will be enough to tip the balance in some people whereas for others the small amount of ‘good’ bacteria destroyed can easily be either replaced, or just not noticed by the body’s immune system? All I know is that when I come here and read your stories I really, really wish I had the answers. I’d so love to be able to wave my wand and have all the pain, the humiliation and the sheer inconvenience of IBD go away and stay there. — Eluned, thinking of a little girl whose illness has turned a family’s life upside down and inside out.

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Eluned, I think we, the newsgroup family, and Liz and her family are very fortunate to have you, who seems to be so sensitive to our needs and troubles. So many come and go from our lives without ever really understanding. You are willing to learn about us and our disease(s) and I thank you for your understanding and compassion. Hugs, Linda – who suddenly feels very weepy (is it the prednisone??)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A pretty well-informed note actually! At this point intestinal bacteria are implicated in a subset, possibly a large subset, of the IBD population, but that’s in combo with genes that predispose to an atypical reaction to that bacteria. So antibiotics could trigger IBD in that subset by changing the mix of intestinal bacteria to one that person can’t tolerate. Which seems to imply that there is indeed a predisposition in each of us to either get or not get certain diseases. Perhaps it’s like genital yeast infections? Some of us will suffer more than others because we have a certain balance of ‘good’ bacteria keeping the candida in check. A course or two of antibiotics will be enough in one person to destroy those good bacteria, resulting in a candidiasis infection, whereas for someone else the same antibiotics will have no such effect. Perhaps the first person has just the right (or wrong, depending on your point of view) acidity or alkalinity to enable the yeast to spread and infect; the other has the amount to prevent it. Is it possible that the same holds true for IBD? Some of us will get it because of antibiotic action in the gut; some of us won’t. Maybe it depends on what is already there, and whether killing off some ‘good’ bacteria along with the bad will be enough to tip the balance in some people whereas for others the small amount of ‘good’ bacteria destroyed can easily be either replaced, or just not noticed by the body’s immune system? All I know is that when I come here and read your stories I really, really wish I had the answers. I’d so love to be able to wave my wand and have all the pain, the humiliation and the sheer inconvenience of IBD go away and stay there. — Eluned, thinking of a little girl whose illness has turned a family’s life upside down and inside out.

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You have a good idea going. After reading what you post it made sit and think about yeast infections. How many others out there had to eat yougurt or buy creams for yeast infections brought on during antibiotic treatments? I’ve had to for the last 4 years andI knew nothing about IBD and the problems associated with it. Lord knows I wish I would have known because I could have prevented my famly from worrying and maybe prevented surgery. Thanks it gives me something else to ponder. UM MOM Susan

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My Dr. think that’s what triggered my Crohn’s. I was fine until I had 2 weeks of antibiotics. After my system started a slow yet quick decline starting with my first diagnosis of diverticulitis. UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A pretty well-informed note actually! At this point intestinal bacteria are implicated in a subset, possibly a large subset, of the IBD population, but that’s in combo with genes that predispose to an atypical reaction to that bacteria. So antibiotics could trigger IBD in that subset by changing the mix of intestinal bacteria to one that person can’t tolerate. If I can inject a non-informed note here? Overuse of anything will result in problems sooner or later; however if it were possible to contract UC from the taking of antibiotics wouldn’t we all have it by now? It seems to me that every time I check in here someone somewhere has come up with a new theory of what causes which. It is also clear however that everyone’s story is different, which makes me wonder if perhaps there isn’t a common ’cause’ as such, but like cancer there’s a predisposition which can be triggered by things like genetics; stress; illness; yes, possibly even longterm use of antibiotics – but from the research I’ve done to help Beth there really doesn’t seem to be any one set of triggers that are common to all sufferers. I don’t know, perhaps it’s ‘just one of those things’? OK, I’ll get my coat… — Eluned Has there been any research on this topic? Do you know for sure antibiotic use is not in cause? If you have any article on this could you post the links? Thanks in advance Noella Antibiotics do not give you ulcerative colitis They can upset the normal colonic bacteria and cause severe diarrhea, etc. but the disease itself does not result from antibiotics.

Response:

A pretty well-informed note actually! At this point intestinal bacteria are implicated in a subset, possibly a large subset, of the IBD population, but that’s in combo with genes that predispose to an atypical reaction to that bacteria. So antibiotics could trigger IBD in that subset by changing the mix of intestinal bacteria to one that person can’t tolerate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If I can inject a non-informed note here? Overuse of anything will result in problems sooner or later; however if it were possible to contract UC from the taking of antibiotics wouldn’t we all have it by now? It seems to me that every time I check in here someone somewhere has come up with a new theory of what causes which. It is also clear however that everyone’s story is different, which makes me wonder if perhaps there isn’t a common ’cause’ as such, but like cancer there’s a predisposition which can be triggered by things like genetics; stress; illness; yes, possibly even longterm use of antibiotics – but from the research I’ve done to help Beth there really doesn’t seem to be any one set of triggers that are common to all sufferers. I don’t know, perhaps it’s ‘just one of those things’? OK, I’ll get my coat… — Eluned Has there been any research on this topic? Do you know for sure antibiotic use is not in cause? If you have any article on this could you post the links? Thanks in advance Noella Antibiotics do not give you ulcerative colitis They can upset the normal colonic bacteria and cause severe diarrhea, etc. but the disease itself does not result from antibiotics.

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Wonderful post Sue! I hope you are feeling well today! Rebecca – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Salaam, You recently posted the following on asc-c: Newsgroups: alt.support.crohns-colitis In addition to luck, I wish you: –the strength to forgive –the joy of a finding work that supports you decently and makes use of your talents –freedom from self-absorption and from self-pity –the wisdom to listen to the stories of others–REALLY listen–and to appreciate their beauty and variety –a sense of humor. These are good rules to live by, especially on a support group such as this one. I know that like many on this ng you are having a really tough life, and it probably makes you feel better to lash out at others, but support newsgroups have strict no flaming policies precisely so that people can come here and, as you said so well, be able to really listen to the stories of others and appreciate their beauty and variety. On days when you are not feeling free enuf from self-absorption and self-pity to avoid taking out your feelings on others, the good news is that there are literally tens of thousands of newsgroups out there where attacking others is perfectly ok. You can then come back here and tell us about all the crappy things happening in your life and we will more than happy to throw you a ‘pity party’, as one of the great things about internet support groups is they provide a place where people suffering the same things can give each other the sympathy and empathy they need to keep going out there in the non-virtual world. And now, for the viewing pleasure of all, asc-c’s infamous charter! What is Alt.support.crohns-colitis? Alt.support.crohns-colitis was created in early 1994 as a forum where people suffering from ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s Disease, and irritable bowel syndrome can share their everyday struggles with these illnesses, as well as discuss medicines, treatments, surgery, diet, health care providers, related illnesses, and anything else anyone can think of that relates to these diseases. In other words, this is the online equivalent of a support group, which means that no question is stupid and no condition embarrassing here. It also means we’re all here to help each other out, so please be nice, be polite, and no flaming. Discussions of all types of medicine- conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever- are welcome here; however, any person discussing a potential remedy which he or she also sells must explicitly begin the "Subject" header of their post with the word "AD" or "ADVERTISEMENT" in all caps, regardless of whether or not they profit from such sales. Spamming is expressly forbidden as violating the rules of netiquette as well as those of this newsgroup. Finally, please keep in mind that no one knows what causes these illnesses, no one’s come up with a cure, and we need all the help we can get.

Response:

Hi Salaam, You recently posted the following on asc-c: Newsgroups: alt.support.crohns-colitis In addition to luck, I wish you: –the strength to forgive –the joy of a finding work that supports you decently and makes use of your talents –freedom from self-absorption and from self-pity –the wisdom to listen to the stories of others–REALLY listen–and to appreciate their beauty and variety –a sense of humor. These are good rules to live by, especially on a support group such as this one. I know that like many on this ng you are having a really tough life, and it probably makes you feel better to lash out at others, but support newsgroups have strict no flaming policies precisely so that people can come here and, as you said so well, be able to really listen to the stories of others and appreciate their beauty and variety. On days when you are not feeling free enuf from self-absorption and self-pity to avoid taking out your feelings on others, the good news is that there are literally tens of thousands of newsgroups out there where attacking others is perfectly ok. You can then come back here and tell us about all the crappy things happening in your life and we will more than happy to throw you a ‘pity party’, as one of the great things about internet support groups is they provide a place where people suffering the same things can give each other the sympathy and empathy they need to keep going out there in the non-virtual world. And now, for the viewing pleasure of all, asc-c’s infamous charter! What is Alt.support.crohns-colitis? Alt.support.crohns-colitis was created in early 1994 as a forum where people suffering from ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s Disease, and irritable bowel syndrome can share their everyday struggles with these illnesses, as well as discuss medicines, treatments, surgery, diet, health care providers, related illnesses, and anything else anyone can think of that relates to these diseases. In other words, this is the online equivalent of a support group, which means that no question is stupid and no condition embarrassing here. It also means we’re all here to help each other out, so please be nice, be polite, and no flaming. Discussions of all types of medicine- conventional and alternative, Western and Eastern, your Aunt Harriet’s home remedies, whatever- are welcome here; however, any person discussing a potential remedy which he or she also sells must explicitly begin the "Subject" header of their post with the word "AD" or "ADVERTISEMENT" in all caps, regardless of whether or not they profit from such sales. Spamming is expressly forbidden as violating the rules of netiquette as well as those of this newsgroup. Finally, please keep in mind that no one knows what causes these illnesses, no one’s come up with a cure, and we need all the help we can get.

Response:

Cancel the attitude, it is not needed. Mike Antibiotics do not give you ulcerative colitis They can upset the normal colonic bacteria and cause severe diarrhea, etc. but the disease itself does not result from antibiotics. — Pearl. L Pearl–You got one right! Good for you!

Response:

Antibiotics do not give you ulcerative colitis They can upset the normal colonic bacteria and cause severe diarrhea, etc. but the disease itself does not result from antibiotics. — Pearl. L

Pearl–You got one right! Good for you!

Response:

Has there been any research on this topic? Do you know for sure antibiotic use is not in cause? If you have any article on this could you post the links? Thanks in advance Noella – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Antibiotics do not give you ulcerative colitis They can upset the normal colonic bacteria and cause severe diarrhea, etc. but the disease itself does not result from antibiotics. — Pearl. L What does it all mean? I always thought overuse of antibiotics while a teenager was what gave me UC in the first place. I think he is going a bit nuts lumping UC and CD together like that, but ….. Infect Immun 2001 Sep;69(9):5529-5537 Books, LinkOut Adherent Invasive Escherichia coli Strains from Patients with Crohn’s Disease Survive and Replicate within Macrophages without Inducing Host Cell Death. Glasser AL, Boudeau J, Barnich N, Perruchot MH, Colombel JF, Darfeuille-Michaud A. Pathogenie Bacterienne Intestinale, Laboratoire de Bacteriologie, Universite d’Auvergne, 63001 Clermont-Ferrand, France. Escherichia coli strains recovered from Crohn’s disease (CD) lesions are able to adhere to and invade cultured intestinal epithelial cells. We analyzed the behavior within macrophages of adherent invasive E. coli (AIEC) strains isolated from patients with CD. All the 15 AIEC strains tested were able to replicate extensively within J774-A1 cells: the numbers of intracellular bacteria increased 2.2- to 74.2-fold at 48 h over that at 1 h postinfection. By use of murine peritoneal macrophages and human monocyte-derived-macrophages, the reference AIEC strain LF82 was confirmed to be able to survive intracellularly. Transmission electron micrographs of AIEC LF82-infected macrophages showed that at 24 h postinfection, infected cells harbored large vacuoles containing numerous bacteria, as a result of the fusion of several vacuoles occurring after 8 h postinfection. No lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release, no sign of DNA fragmentation or degradation, and no binding to fluorescein isothlocyanate-labeled annexin V were observed with LF82-infected J774-A1 cells, even after 24 h postinfection. LF82-infected J774-A1 cells secreted 2.7-fold more tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) than cells stimulated with 1 &mgr;g of lipopolysaccharide (LPS)/ml. No release of interleukin-1beta was observed with LPS-prestimulated J774-A1 cells infected with AIEC LF82. These findings showed that (i) AIEC strains are able to survive and to replicate within macrophages, (ii) AIEC LF82 replication does not induce any cell death of the infected cells, and (iii) LF82-infected J774-A1 cells release high levels of TNF-alpha. These properties could be related to some features of CD and particularly to granuloma formation, one of the hallmarks of CD lesions. Mike Hi Mike, If you go to www.drmirkin.com, and view #7985 "The Latest on Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn’s Disease", …I quote "There are now several studies showing that two antibiotics, metronidazole and Cipro that will control and often cure ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease." I tried to view the article from "the Lancet", but it was a dead link… Thanks, Kirsten If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Antibiotics do not give you ulcerative colitis They can upset the normal colonic bacteria and cause severe diarrhea, etc. but the disease itself does not result from antibiotics. — Pearl. L

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it all mean? I always thought overuse of antibiotics while a teenager was what gave me UC in the first place. I think he is going a bit nuts lumping UC and CD together like that, but ….. Infect Immun 2001 Sep;69(9):5529-5537 Books, LinkOut Adherent Invasive Escherichia coli Strains from Patients with Crohn’s Disease Survive and Replicate within Macrophages without Inducing Host Cell Death. Glasser AL, Boudeau J, Barnich N, Perruchot MH, Colombel JF, Darfeuille-Michaud A. Pathogenie Bacterienne Intestinale, Laboratoire de Bacteriologie, Universite d’Auvergne, 63001 Clermont-Ferrand, France. Escherichia coli strains recovered from Crohn’s disease (CD) lesions are able to adhere to and invade cultured intestinal epithelial cells. We analyzed the behavior within macrophages of adherent invasive E. coli (AIEC) strains isolated from patients with CD. All the 15 AIEC strains tested were able to replicate extensively within J774-A1 cells: the numbers of intracellular bacteria increased 2.2- to 74.2-fold at 48 h over that at 1 h postinfection. By use of murine peritoneal macrophages and human monocyte-derived-macrophages, the reference AIEC strain LF82 was confirmed to be able to survive intracellularly. Transmission electron micrographs of AIEC LF82-infected macrophages showed that at 24 h postinfection, infected cells harbored large vacuoles containing numerous bacteria, as a result of the fusion of several vacuoles occurring after 8 h postinfection. No lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release, no sign of DNA fragmentation or degradation, and no binding to fluorescein isothlocyanate-labeled annexin V were observed with LF82-infected J774-A1 cells, even after 24 h postinfection. LF82-infected J774-A1 cells secreted 2.7-fold more tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) than cells stimulated with 1 &mgr;g of lipopolysaccharide (LPS)/ml. No release of interleukin-1beta was observed with LPS-prestimulated J774-A1 cells infected with AIEC LF82. These findings showed that (i) AIEC strains are able to survive and to replicate within macrophages, (ii) AIEC LF82 replication does not induce any cell death of the infected cells, and (iii) LF82-infected J774-A1 cells release high levels of TNF-alpha. These properties could be related to some features of CD and particularly to granuloma formation, one of the hallmarks of CD lesions. Mike Hi Mike, If you go to www.drmirkin.com, and view #7985 "The Latest on Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn’s Disease", …I quote "There are now several studies showing that two antibiotics, metronidazole and Cipro that will control and often cure ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease." I tried to view the article from "the Lancet", but it was a dead link… Thanks, Kirsten If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Mike, Thanks for this…I emailed drmirkin requesting references for this antibiotic "cure" for U/C, and they refered me to all the references in his report G213 – 27 of them – none of which infer anything even closely related to antibiotics "curing" U/C. I have asked for more evidence! Kirsten – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think he is going a bit nuts lumping UC and CD together like that, but …..

Response:

Do a search on Pub Med for it. I don’t have UC so I have not monitered it closely. Mike Mike, Thanks for this…I emailed drmirkin requesting references for this antibiotic "cure" for U/C, and they refered me to all the references in his report G213 – 27 of them – none of which infer anything even closely related to antibiotics "curing" U/C. I have asked for more evidence! Kirsten I think he is going a bit nuts lumping UC and CD together like that, but …..

Response:

Antibiotics could have triggered your UC. Good bacteria in the gut re easy to kill. If you were given an "overdose" of antibiotic with out the benefit of a probiotic that could have caused a upsurge in pathogenic bacteria. This would be especially true if the antibiotics were not designed for the pathogenic bacteria that thrived. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does it all mean? I always thought overuse of antibiotics while a teenager was what gave me UC in the first place. I think he is going a bit nuts lumping UC and CD together like that, but ….. Infect Immun 2001 Sep;69(9):5529-5537 Books, LinkOut Adherent Invasive Escherichia coli Strains from Patients with Crohn’s Disease Survive and Replicate within Macrophages without Inducing Host Cell Death. Glasser AL, Boudeau J, Barnich N, Perruchot MH, Colombel JF, Darfeuille-Michaud A. Pathogenie Bacterienne Intestinale, Laboratoire de Bacteriologie, Universite d’Auvergne, 63001 Clermont-Ferrand, France. Escherichia coli strains recovered from Crohn’s disease (CD) lesions are able to adhere to and invade cultured intestinal epithelial cells. We analyzed the behavior within macrophages of adherent invasive E. coli (AIEC) strains isolated from patients with CD. All the 15 AIEC strains tested were able to replicate extensively within J774-A1 cells: the numbers of intracellular bacteria increased 2.2- to 74.2-fold at 48 h over that at 1 h postinfection. By use of murine peritoneal macrophages and human monocyte-derived-macrophages, the reference AIEC strain LF82 was confirmed to be able to survive intracellularly. Transmission electron micrographs of AIEC LF82-infected macrophages showed that at 24 h postinfection, infected cells harbored large vacuoles containing numerous bacteria, as a result of the fusion of several vacuoles occurring after 8 h postinfection. No lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release, no sign of DNA fragmentation or degradation, and no binding to fluorescein isothlocyanate-labeled annexin V were observed with LF82-infected J774-A1 cells, even after 24 h postinfection. LF82-infected J774-A1 cells secreted 2.7-fold more tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) than cells stimulated with 1 &mgr;g of lipopolysaccharide (LPS)/ml. No release of interleukin-1beta was observed with LPS-prestimulated J774-A1 cells infected with AIEC LF82. These findings showed that (i) AIEC strains are able to survive and to replicate within macrophages, (ii) AIEC LF82 replication does not induce any cell death of the infected cells, and (iii) LF82-infected J774-A1 cells release high levels of TNF-alpha. These properties could be related to some features of CD and particularly to granuloma formation, one of the hallmarks of CD lesions. Mike Hi Mike, If you go to www.drmirkin.com, and view #7985 "The Latest on Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn’s Disease", …I quote "There are now several studies showing that two antibiotics, metronidazole and Cipro that will control and often cure ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease." I tried to view the article from "the Lancet", but it was a dead link… Thanks, Kirsten If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Interesting copy. Thanks for posting. Hugs, Linda

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Mike, If you go to www.drmirkin.com, and view #7985 "The Latest on Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn’s Disease", …I quote "There are now several studies showing that two antibiotics, metronidazole and Cipro that will control and often cure ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease." I tried to view the article from "the Lancet", but it was a dead link… Thanks, Kirsten If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Here is the direct link… http://drmirkin.com/morehealth/7985.htm He discusses his blanket use of antibiotics for all autoimmune diseases here… http://drmirkin.com/morehealth/G104.htm Thanks again, Kirsten – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

I think he is going a bit nuts lumping UC and CD together like that, but ….. Infect Immun 2001 Sep;69(9):5529-5537 Books, LinkOut Adherent Invasive Escherichia coli Strains from Patients with Crohn’s Disease Survive and Replicate within Macrophages without Inducing Host Cell Death. Glasser AL, Boudeau J, Barnich N, Perruchot MH, Colombel JF, Darfeuille-Michaud A. Pathogenie Bacterienne Intestinale, Laboratoire de Bacteriologie, Universite d’Auvergne, 63001 Clermont-Ferrand, France. Escherichia coli strains recovered from Crohn’s disease (CD) lesions are able to adhere to and invade cultured intestinal epithelial cells. We analyzed the behavior within macrophages of adherent invasive E. coli (AIEC) strains isolated from patients with CD. All the 15 AIEC strains tested were able to replicate extensively within J774-A1 cells: the numbers of intracellular bacteria increased 2.2- to 74.2-fold at 48 h over that at 1 h postinfection. By use of murine peritoneal macrophages and human monocyte-derived-macrophages, the reference AIEC strain LF82 was confirmed to be able to survive intracellularly. Transmission electron micrographs of AIEC LF82-infected macrophages showed that at 24 h postinfection, infected cells harbored large vacuoles containing numerous bacteria, as a result of the fusion of several vacuoles occurring after 8 h postinfection. No lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release, no sign of DNA fragmentation or degradation, and no binding to fluorescein isothlocyanate-labeled annexin V were observed with LF82-infected J774-A1 cells, even after 24 h postinfection. LF82-infected J774-A1 cells secreted 2.7-fold more tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-alpha) than cells stimulated with 1 &mgr;g of lipopolysaccharide (LPS)/ml. No release of interleukin-1beta was observed with LPS-prestimulated J774-A1 cells infected with AIEC LF82. These findings showed that (i) AIEC strains are able to survive and to replicate within macrophages, (ii) AIEC LF82 replication does not induce any cell death of the infected cells, and (iii) LF82-infected J774-A1 cells release high levels of TNF-alpha. These properties could be related to some features of CD and particularly to granuloma formation, one of the hallmarks of CD lesions. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Mike, If you go to www.drmirkin.com, and view #7985 "The Latest on Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn’s Disease", …I quote "There are now several studies showing that two antibiotics, metronidazole and Cipro that will control and often cure ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease." I tried to view the article from "the Lancet", but it was a dead link… Thanks, Kirsten If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Hi, My GI and I have tried it, mainly for my fistulas. It hasn’t helped me, unfortunately, but my GI wouldn’t have let me try it if there weren’t something to it. Good luck! mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks

Response:

Hi Mike, If you go to www.drmirkin.com, and view #7985 "The Latest on Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn’s Disease", …I quote "There are now several studies showing that two antibiotics, metronidazole and Cipro that will control and often cure ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease." I tried to view the article from "the Lancet", but it was a dead link… Thanks, Kirsten – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. Leah’s Body Sugaring Recipe Remove unwanted hair http://www.for-romance.com/sugar "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

If you could give me the link on drmirkin.com that states he is curing UC with antibiotics I may be able to help you out. (I want to see what the antibiotic used are) Antibiotics are having good results with CD but the types used for CD have not been effective with UC. Mike Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks

Response:

Hi folks, Has anyone any knowledge or experience with treating U/C with long term high dose antibiotic? drmirkin.com claims to have had success …actual curing as opposed to remission. any thoughts? I’ve been trying to research, but keep hitting dead links. Thanks

Response:

Sounds like your friend’s son is in much need of improving his immune system. Seems like that area might be looked at with positive results. It certainly can’t hurt. Bob http://www.budget.net/~sharbob/vita1.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend whose son has spent half his life on antibiotics for the last two years. It seems a constant recurrance of everything from flu, colds, strept throat, sinus infections and the list goes on. Several of us have encouraged her to try some alternative treatment. We are very concerned he is building an immunity to the anibiotics and may eventually end up in some very serious trouble. Can anybody offer tell me specifics of what to suggest to her?

Response:

I have a friend whose son has spent half his life on antibiotics for the last two years. It seems a constant recurrance of everything from flu, colds, strept throat, sinus infections and the list goes on. Several of us have encouraged her to try some alternative treatment. We are very concerned he is building an immunity to the anibiotics and may eventually end up in some very serious trouble. Can anybody offer tell me specifics of what to suggest to her? Read the section of Dr. Weil’s book _8 Weeks to Optimum Health_ that deals with tonics (week 6). If you don’t have access to the book, you could check out his website, www.drweil.com

I’m just curious how much Dr. Weil is paying you for all this advertising? 80% of your messages say to check out his books, although that isn’t all that helpful for people who are looking for information asap! If he isn’t paying you anything, then there is something wrong here…8-) Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eric (sorry for the munged headers, I hate spam) Not a health practitioner of any kind!!!!! Devotee of Dr. Andrew Weil’s books: _8 Weeks To Optimum Health_ and _Spontaneous Healing_ Lead Proponent, rec.autos.sport.nascar.moderated

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend whose son has spent half his life on antibiotics for the last two years. It seems a constant recurrance of everything from flu, colds, strept throat, sinus infections and the list goes on. Several of us have encouraged her to try some alternative treatment. We are very concerned he is building an immunity to the anibiotics and may eventually end up in some very serious trouble. Can anybody offer tell me specifics of what to suggest to her? Buy her the book Poisonous Prescriptions by Lisa Landymore-Lin. If that doesn’t put her off antibiotics nothing will. Get her to consult a Naturopath or homeopath, or an orthomolecular M.D. like Dr Wright http://www.seattle.net/~drwright/ How To Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doc by Mendelsohn, M.D. may be useful Not sure if ACAM list orthomolecular docs http://www.acam.org/ OrthoMed http://www.orthomed.org/ And Natural Hygiene (similar to naturopathy) is a good drug detox programme http://members.aol.com/cmorri2513/hygiene.htm John

I agree, this situation is of considerable concern. After a bout with cancer and radiation treatments 2 years ago I found I was unable to stay well. Everytime I turned around I had another infection and was on antibiotics again. My daughter introduced me to herbal and homeopathic products that have made the difference. I have been ill very little this winter and when a cold or flu started to hit I bounced back very fast. :-) I certainly agree, your friend should be steered in the direction of herbal, homeopathy, http://members.tripod.com/~carlynn/nutrition.html

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Buy her the book Poisonous Prescriptions by Lisa Landymore-Lin. If that doesn’t put her off antibiotics nothing will. Get her to consult a Naturopath or homeopath, or an orthomolecular M.D. like Dr Wright http://www.seattle.net/~drwright/ How To Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doc by Mendelsohn, M.D. may be useful Not sure if ACAM list orthomolecular docs http://www.acam.org/ OrthoMed http://www.orthomed.org/ And Natural Hygiene (similar to naturopathy) is a good drug detox programme http://members.aol.com/cmorri2513/hygiene.htm John

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The maladies continue, because the child’s natural immune system is not being allowed to develop in defense of these ills. In fact, antibiotics are know to depress the immune system. The child should probably be taken off dairy as it is an instigator in a lot of childhood ills. He should be given 500mg. of Colostrum twice a day for 5 days (on an empty stomach). For the next 5 days, continue the Colostrum and add FOS and 3-4 Acidopholus caps. twice a day (just before meals). Continue the Acidopholus and FOS for 2 months, but drop the Colostrum. This will restart the immune system and rebuild the natural intestinal flora destroyed by the antibiotics. The flora aids digestion, creates B vitamins and helps in the immune defense. It is destroyed after as little as 10 days worth of antibiotic use and should be rebuilt after each such use. To build up the immune system, the child should be using a high potency multiple vitamin and mineral supplement. Taking some ginseng and deodorized garlic capsules (4 of each daily) for a month or two would help tremendously. When a flu/cold does come along, an intensive course of Echinacea (4 caps., 4-6 times a day) should resolve the matter in a few days, although it is best to reduce the dosage to 2 caps. 3 times a day after symptoms disappear and continue for the remainder of a 7-10 day period. This insures there are no lingering germs. Echinacea is antimicrobial, does not lend itself to the building of resistant germs, and primarily acts as an immune system stimulant. It is in no way harmful to the body, but should not be taken continuously. Herbs are best taken on an empty stomach. Tinctures are available for children who find it difficult to swallow capsules. Generally 15 drops (1/2 dropperful) is equivalent to 2 capsules. The above suggestions on number of capsules assumes a 60-80 pound child, and are about 2/3rd’s of what I would recommend to an adult. If the child is smaller, adjust the amounts accordingly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a friend whose son has spent half his life on antibiotics for the last two years. It seems a constant recurrance of everything from flu, colds, strept throat, sinus infections and the list goes on. Several of us have encouraged her to try some alternative treatment. We are very concerned he is building an immunity to the anibiotics and may eventually end up in some very serious trouble. Can anybody offer tell me specifics of what to suggest to her?

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Well Hello, Glad you saw the post Thanks again for the site and I will put it in my folder. It is a great site and you put alot of work into it!! I am glad you didnt mind my giving out the e-mail address. I just knew this fellow could use your info. Thanks David and good to hear from you again. Glad all is well with you , Regards, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -That’s me. Try me at the e-mail address in the header of this message. As for my web pages, they’ve moved to a free location (my employer) at: http://www.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca:8080/~elfstrom/arthritis/index.html That’s quite a line to type! But hey, it was free. On the subject of psoriatic arthritis & minocycline, yes, I’ve been on it for about a year with good results. Recently I stopped it for two weeks (unintentionally, my prescription ran out and I didn’t get around to filling it) but the pain and swelling came back, so I had to start it up again. Minocycline works very well as an additional anti-inflammatory medication for me, plus it has eliminated my morning stiffness. I’m the only one in my rheumatologist’s practice who is taking it, and she is watching my progress with interest. David </PRE</HTML

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That’s me. Try me at the e-mail address in the header of this message. As for my web pages, they’ve moved to a free location (my employer) at: http://www.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca:8080/~elfstrom/arthritis/index.html That’s quite a line to type! But hey, it was free. On the subject of psoriatic arthritis & minocycline, yes, I’ve been on it for about a year with good results. Recently I stopped it for two weeks (unintentionally, my prescription ran out and I didn’t get around to filling it) but the pain and swelling came back, so I had to start it up again. Minocycline works very well as an additional anti-inflammatory medication for me, plus it has eliminated my morning stiffness. I’m the only one in my rheumatologist’s practice who is taking it, and she is watching my progress with interest. David

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Hi Jim , There is a fellow David Elfstrom who I believe has a web site too and has the same illness. I know he has been using antibiotics . Try writing him at as it was recently changed. This fellow had offered some info to me and I am sure will do the same for you Good luck and keep us posted, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just found you guys. I’ve had psoriatic arthritis for about 8 years. During this time I’ve been working in Japan and getting by on Methotrexate. Since my recent return, I’ve heard a little about antibiotic treatment for RA, How about PA? Any info re: antibiotics would be much appreciated! Antibiotic treatment has been very successful in treating PA. Take a look at http://www.rheumatic.org for lots of information on the subject. –Lana in Wash., D.C. I’ve changed my email address to foil spammers. To reach me, substitute "ix.netcom.com" where "no.spam.com" appears in my address. ^, ,^< </PRE</HTML

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Just found you guys. I’ve had psoriatic arthritis for about 8 years. During this time I’ve been working in Japan and getting by on Methotrexate. Since my recent return, I’ve heard a little about antibiotic treatment for RA, How about PA? Any info re: antibiotics would be much appreciated!

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<HTML<PREJust found you guys. I’ve had psoriatic arthritis for about 8 years. During this time I’ve been working in Japan and getting by on Methotrexate. Since my recent return, I’ve heard a little about antibiotic treatment for RA, How about PA? Any info re: antibiotics would be much appreciated!

Very good question! I havent heard much about antibiotics and PA either! Anyone else? Keep Smilin’ ~Krissy "The most thoroughly wasted of all days is that in which one has not laughed." Nicolas Chamfort

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Antibiotic treatment has been very successful in treating PA. Take a look at http://www.rheumatic.org for lots of information on the subject. –Lana in Wash., D.C. I’ve changed my email address to foil spammers. To reach me, substitute "ix.netcom.com" where "no.spam.com" appears in my address. ^, ,^<

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Hi, Jim… welcome to the group! I also have PA and am taking mtx and relafen. As far as I have read, I have not seen any research related to PA and antibiotic treatment. (of course, who knows?) I suspect that most things that hold true for RA will also hold true for PA (at least that’s how it seems to me), so if this is so, then antibiotics MIGHT help a PERCENTAGE of people with early disease. Please let us know if you hear anything more! Best regards, LadyAndy2

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(snip) Not all antibiotics are as unselective as you suggest. I suspect you are talking about "wide spectrum antibiotics". The problem is that many of the common antibiotics are wide spectrum and have been over prescribe in the past. Things are changing – many doctors no longer prescribe wide spectrum antibiotics as freely as they have done in the past. Steve Stephen Wolstenholme: Author of Neural Network Shareware Neural Planner – general purpose neural network system NeuroDiet – neural network health & fitness diet planner see www.tropheus.demon.co.uk for details

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<< What supplements contain these bacteria ? The only thing I can think of is "bio-yogurts" which contain bacterial cultures. David Law There are several products you can buy at your local health food store. Just take a list of the beneficial micro-flora from the post and ask the store person if they have anything that has these things in it. The stuff I use has everything in it. It comes via mail order and costs me $18 for 30 caps and $36.75 for 90 caps. Steve

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<<Not all antibiotics are as unselective as you suggest. I suspect you are talking about "wide spectrum antibiotics". The problem is that many of the common antibiotics are wide spectrum and have been over prescribe in the past. Things are changing – many doctors no longer prescribe wide spectrum antibiotics as freely as they have done in the past. Steve I’m sure there is some truth in that statement but antibiotics are by no means totally benevolent. And though many doctors may no longer prescribe broad spectrum antibiotics as freely as they once did, many other doctors still pass them out with reckless abandon. Nature did not design us to live on antibiotics for extended periods of time. They can and do produce various untoward side effects and no matter how you look at it, taking antibiotics on an ongoing (forever) basis does not come without certain risks. On the other hand, supplementing with beneficial micro-flora will do no harm and is a good and healthy safety measure. Steve S.

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Hi, Steve! Here in Norway we can buy these micro-flora stuff at the health food store. Expensive! We can also buy it from the pharmacy, much cheaper… Does the same job… Aase Marit ))) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << What supplements contain these bacteria ? The only thing I can think of is "bio-yogurts" which contain bacterial cultures. David Law There are several products you can buy at your local health food store. Just take a list of the beneficial micro-flora from the post and ask the store person if they have anything that has these things in it. The stuff I use has everything in it. It comes via mail order and costs me $18 for 30 caps and $36.75 for 90 caps. Steve

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A word or caution to those using antibiotics on a long term basis. An antibiotic cannot tell a "good bug" from a "bad bug". It tries to kill off everything. Antibiotic therapy is like, "Let’s burn the whole village and maybe we’ll get the bad guys in the process". We all have (or should have) beneficial micro-flora living in our digestive tract. They aid in the digestion of our food both in the stomach and in the intestine, keep undesirable things like Candida yeast in check (antibiotics do not kill yeast), support healthy bowel ecology and supply B vitamins. EVERYBODY on antibiotics should also be supplementing with a micro-flora complex of Lactobacillus Slivarius, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Bulgaricus and Lactobacillus Bifidus on a regular basis to restore that which is constantly being killed off by the antibiotic. Personally, I would never take an antibiotic without it. Steve

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I guess I’m supposed to email you now to find out which mail order company. It wouldn’t be "Life Plus", would it ? Nice try.

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antibiotics should also be supplementing with a micro-flora complex of Lactobacillus Slivarius, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Bulgaricus and Lactobacillus Bifidus on a regular basis to restore that which is constantly being killed off by the antibiotic. Personally, I would never take an antibiotic without it.

And for the women, keep a tube of Monistat or equivalent on hand. I’ve never taken antibiotics, without needing it. Stacy Scott

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antibiotics should also be supplementing with a micro-flora complex

And for the women, keep a tube of Monistat or equivalent on hand. I’ve never taken antibiotics, without needing it.

I need the adidophilus and the monistat only occasionally, and it does help. Good thing I don’t have to choose between an arthritis flare and a yeast flare. Guess who would win? <G –Lana

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EVERYBODY on antibiotics should also be supplementing with a micro-flora complex of Lactobacillus Slivarius, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Bulgaricus and Lactobacillus Bifidus on a regular basis to restore that which is constantly being killed off by the antibiotic. Personally, I would never take an antibiotic without it. Steve

What supplements contain these bacteria ? The only thing I can think of is "bio-yogurts" which contain bacterial cultures. David Law

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Does anyone know any good alternatives to antibiotics? I’m allergic, and traditional doctors say the next time I get an infection I’ll die!!!! I’m allergic to garlic and cayenne. Thank you!! Julie —

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You are allergic to what? Next time you get what kind of infection you will die? What is the matter with your immune system? Even without antibiotics you should survive most infections unless you are immunocompromised. If you are allergic to some antibiotics it is doubtful that you are allergic to all of them. aloha, Rich ——- Richard Jacobson Better to be uncertain about something than to be sure and be wrong about it

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You may want to look into Colonics or Colon Therapy. From all that I read, many of our illness are linked to a toxic colon, i.e. putrified waste. –Henry

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Hi I’m new to this group and I was wondering if anyone has heard of antibiotics for arthritis.

I am sure you have figured this out by the various post but different people respond differently to different treatment. If you haven’t done so already, get a good rheumatologist and discuss your treatment options with him/her. Also, do as you have been doing, gather all the info you can to help you make an informed decision that is right for you. Sarah L "The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they

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