Posts belonging to Category 'Living With Crohn's'

30 years of living with Crohn's Disease

Question:

I love Four on the Floor!  I haven’t seen those guys in SO long "they’ll go MAD!" haha thanks for reminding me about such a funny show PS this had nothing to do with IBD, isn’t that cool?

Response:

Has anyone considered that this may not be a question of disease<BR incidence, but of diagnosis?

Amen, Esther..my theory exactly.  As a person who suffered from the age of 3 til 31 with 14 diffferent and erroneous diagnoses (from Lupus, ulcers, appendicitis, over-stresses, liver disease, Diverticulitis,gall bladder disease, Colitis, and so forth and so on),  I feel that we simply have no accurate figures on the incidence of this disease because of the lack of fundamental training on the part of the internal medicine community. They have the knowledge of how to diagnose,  but it’s as if they don’t cover it in Med School. When I finally met up with a guy that knew what he was doing,  he showed me in 1981 the guidelines for Crohns…andIi was a classic textbook case!  From the bloating, distension, years of constipation, low-grade fevers sever skin eczema,, complications of fissures and fistulas, iritis, the whole shebang . And yet no one can ever recognize these symptoms??  In my previous correlation of Dr’s to mechanics,  I pointed out that the diagnosis can only be as good as the quality of that Dr’s ability to use his medical school training,  and to NOT jump on current bandwagons and fads, i.e. the "ulcers" and "stress inducements" of the 60’s and the bad water theories of the  80’s and the "catch-all" phrasing of the "IBS" of the 90’s. How can we even begin to correlate what population groups are most affected, what genetic strains are repetitious,  or what common factors may be attributable when there are so many either undiagnosed or misdiagnosed?? If there is one thing i have learned over the last few years on the net,  my example was not that unusual. I was subjected to countless drugs, punch biopsies, surguries and even had aspersions caste on my mental health all because no one could properly diagnose this disease until i was 31. I am now 45,  and can heartily assure those of you awaiting final diagnosis that life WITH the knowledge has been much better than never being sure what the heck was wrong with me. This disease ain’t pretty,  but knowing it’s name and consequesnces gives me the ability to plan and feel somewhat autonomous,  instead of adrift and frightened! If only Icould confer that priviledge on all those in the world now being told that they have "irritable bowels"!! Yours, Susan

Response:

Were that it would be so simple…but i have a feeling this will never be answered by only one "cause",  but perhaps a combination of a few htings that, when put together,  cause this God-awful disease! Thanks for the time! Susan

How true!  Crohn’s doesn’t have a single genetic cause or trigger, but genes nevertheless do have a big role in the onset of the disease, as shown by its tendency to appear in families (if someone in the family has Crohn’s, and another develops typical symptoms, then it’s more likely going to be Crohn’s than UC or another IBD).  Something in our genes gives us the propensity for developing Crohn’s, but there is no one clearly visible trigger other than (any and/or all of the) toxic pollutants and contaminants in our foodstuffs.   Bill — — Every answer to a Spammer’s message only encourages greater spamming efforts…. Spamming will stop when spammers stop making profits!

Response:

It should be possble to compare a population of Native Americans using city water supplies with those who do not.  There are thousands of NA is several cities.  It should also be possible to find thousands of "whiteys" using wells and run comparisions. Crohn’s diagnosed 36 years ago, probable first relatd symptoms 42 years ago three reactions.

If I remember correctly from my research into the disease when I was in the hosp. with my last total blockage, the studies published then indicated that AmerInds who moved off the reservations and into the cities had about the same rate of occurrence of Crohn’s as everyone else.  Living on the res. somehow seems to grant immunity; living in cities somehow seems to take it away.  (!?!)  It’s anyone’s guess right now as to why this is, but again, I point to urban pollution as the precursor if not the culprit. Bill — — Every answer to a Spammer’s message only encourages greater spamming efforts…. Spamming will stop when spammers stop making profits!

Response:

If I remember correctly from my research into the disease when I was in the hosp. with my last total blockage, the studies published then indicated that AmerInds who moved off the reservations and into the cities had about the same rate of occurrence of Crohn’s as everyone else.  Living on the res. somehow seems to grant immunity; living in cities somehow seems to take it away.  (!?!)  It’s anyone’s guess right now as to why this is, but again, I point to urban pollution as the precursor if not the culprit.

Bill: Urban pollution is one possible hypothesis.  The exact opposite hypothesis is also possible.  On many Reservations, the rates for many diseases are very high.  Perhaps on the reservations, the people are continually exposed to many bacteria/viruses which somehow form a protection against contracting IBD. In the clean water cities, we are not exposed to as many germs.  So, our immune systems are triggered to fight our own bodies, instead of fighting the external invaders.  Perhaps it’s not the ‘additives’ in the city water, but rather, the lack of disease causing organisms in the city water. This is just another hypothesis – a guess about what the cause is.  It is another way of thinking about the same situation. I would just like to enourage divergent thinking about all possible scenarios. Ariel —

Response:

… AmerInds who moved off the reservations and into the cities had about the same rate of occurrence of Crohn’s as everyone else.  Living on the res. somehow seems to grant immunity; living in cities somehow seems to take it away.

Has anyone considered that this may not be a question of disease incidence, but of diagnosis? I know that in Canada it is difficult to get a competent GP on a reservation, let alone any type of specialist. And many reservations are isolated and have no doctors at all (just RNs). Could it be that Native Americans who have the symptoms of UC/CD are more likely to move to the cities to get an answer about what is making them sick and to get competent treatment? Just a theory from someone who didn’t get properly diagnosed until she moved to a major urban centre, Esther — "We got plain,"  AAACCCHHHOOO! "and we got glazed…"                        -The Frantics                                         "Four on the Floor" I love my RX-3, but it doesn’t reciprocate.

Response:

I just hope this doesn’t turn into another flame war. Erica

Ditto.  Your points were/are valid and well taken.  But I would include MTBE in the category of contaminants.  And yes, I should think quantity is a greater factor than quality (Lots of water ingested). Remember that metallic taste school milk used to have?  That was formaldehyde!  Dairymen add it to the milk they peddle to schools at discount to preserve it, as it is often on the verge of spoiling when it is bottled/canned/cartoned.  Nice, huh? Bill. — — Every answer to a Spammer’s message only encourages greater spamming efforts…. Spamming will stop when spammers stop making profits!

Response:

 Where do you live ? If I’m thinking of what you mean the drugstores have it for contact wearers and our regular food stores have it because batteries , irons and coffee makers like it much better…less mineral build-up to clean…in PA. we have some pretty hard water…plus it doesn’t hurt to drink it as it can help leach minerals out of your system but it’s not something you should do on a regular basis as it’s said you can cause mineral deficiencies…can’t spell sorry…linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is distilled water available to buy?  I’ve only seen it in labs. –Roz

Response:

Ditto.  Your points were/are valid and well taken.  But I would include MTBE in the category of contaminants.

<<snicker  Well, yes–but not a deliberate one.  What I meant was that MTBE is in the category of Evil Contaminant as opposed to something like fluoride, which I would put in the Possibly-Evil, Possibly-Harmless Additive category.  The water company sent out a letter at the end of January apologizing for the 4 parts per million of MTBE that had been found and letting us know that that well had been shut off until it was all taken care of.  What was weird was that I was the only one with problems–my husband was fine.

Response:

Is distilled water available to buy?  I’ve only seen it in labs. –Roz

Sure!  Comes in gallon jugs in most grocery stores and mini-marts. It’s next to the regular drinking water, usually, and is sold for use in steam irons and such so they don’t clog with scale with heavy use. Distilled water is effectively tasteless, that is, it has (almost) no taste of its own.  Most of what gives drinking water its flavor is dissolved minerals, and of course, distilling removes them (if it is done right!).  But it’s great for making coffee, teas, reconstituting juices, cooking with, etc. It will change the way foods prepared with it taste to you, but once you begin using it regularly you stop noticing any changes, and regular drinking water and foods made with it begin to taste horrible! Bill 30 yrs. of sharing life with Crohn’s — — Every answer to a Spammer’s message only encourages greater spamming efforts…. Spamming will stop when spammers stop making profits!

Response:

Roz, Don’t know where you’re from … but in my area the grocery stores keep it with the bottled spring waters. Cheers Robin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is distilled water available to buy?  I’ve only seen it in labs. –Roz

Response:

Bill, Great,  thought-provoking writeup! definitely some food (water???!!!) -for-thought! Were that it would be so simple…but i have a feeling this will never be answered by only one "cause",  but perhaps a combination of a few htings that, when put together,  cause this God-awful disease! Thanks for the time! Susan

Response:

It should be possble to compare a population of Native Americans using city water supplies with those who do not.  There are thousands of NA is several cities.  It should also be possible to find thousands of "whiteys" using wells and run comparisions. Crohn’s diagnosed 36 years ago, probable first relatd symptoms 42 years ago three reactions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings and felicitations to one and all:         I am a relative newcomer to this newsgroup, but an ‘old hand’ with Dr. Crohn’s source of fame.  My first symptoms began showing up ‘way back in 1965, but the disease wasn’t properly or adequately diagnosed for almost another twenty years.  Back then, what I had was ‘regional iliitis.’ I’ve had surgery twice, once in the early seventies and again in the mid-eighties, and have had right around five feet of small bowl removed all told.  I’ve had and have all the classic symptoms; 4 to 10 watery bowel movements daily, a low-grade fever throughout the day leading to ‘night sweats’ when it breaks about one and half to three hours after I go to sleep at night, crusty, inflamed eyes, pooping my britches in the middle of night when the disease is flaring, and, perhaps worst of all, the only form of arthritis associated with Crohn’s that isn’t reversable during periods of remission of the disease, ankylosing spondelitis (spinal arthritis). As many of you have come to know or to suspect from reading the postings about treatments, drugs don’t work worth diddley squat and tend to cause more damn problems than they alleviate.  Prednisone is effective for slapping the disease down during a flare, and that’s all it’s good for.  There are no maintenance drugs or dosages, no matter what various people claim.  Yes, a few drugs WILL work, or seem to, for a FEW people, while a few others will have some success with a dietary regimin of one sort or another, but these are due to individual responses, not to any universal characteristic of the disease.  Keep in mind that in any double blind trial of any drug or treatment, SOME people will respond positively to the placebo and not to the tested element.  It isn’t their fault, it isn’t the drug’s fault, it’s nobody’s fault — it’s just the way individuals respond — individually! Do I think I know what causes our disease?  You betcha I do!  It isn’t a bacterium, and it isn’t a virus, or even a protovirus.  It is not a parasite or a symbiont, or any living (or dead) thing. In thirty years, the demographics of Crohn’s hasn’t changed — it is still a disease of the First and Second World nations;  it is unknown in Third World countries and on American Indian reservations, even — or especially — when those reservations are side-by-side with major urban areas where Crohn’s DOES rear its ugly countenance.  Any explanation of Crohn’s HAS to include and account for this simply because this is a basic and undeniable feature of the model of the disease.  It isn’t radar, or radio, or electromagnetic fields radiating from power transmission lines, nuclear fallout, holes in the ionosphere, or even HAARP.  What it is, my friends and fellow sufferers, is WATER.  H20. The one thing we all need to survive and can’t do without or escape or avoid. Water, he says!  What a crock, you say!  Ah, but think about it for just a moment….   The second thing a developing Third World country does, after buying weapons and nuclear reactors, is to construct water treatment plants for supplying ’safe’ drinking water to its citizens and visiting businessmen.  A country can’t be considered Second World if its people still dip water out of streams and well with buckets — civilization and civilized status require the turning on and off of taps for the procurement of water, regardless of whether one’s plumbing facilities are indoors or out. Third World countries don’t purify their water; people drink it as they get it, parasites, diseases and all.  American Indian reservations don’t get purified water either; even when the reservation is smack in the heart of a major city, as some are; they are NOT connected to the municipal water supply that everyone else is; they have their own wells and distribution systems.  Water goes directly from the ground to the reservation consumer without any intervening steps of ‘purification.’ But look at what the rest of us get.  Ycch!  The vast majority of us get our drinking water from rivers or from water tables that are replenished by rivers.  And, although it may sound paradoxical, the vast majority of us also live downstream from one or a dozen or more major urban centers, all of which use those same rivers and river systems to carry away their effluent wastes, that is, their sewage and industrial ‘byproducts.’ Because we are civilized, we do not allow municipalities and industries to contaminate our waters with raw sewage — we make them treat it with various noxious and toxic chemicals to ensure that no nasty organisms like e. coli, or typhus, or salmonella, or cholera are still alive when the shit hits the stream, er, I mean when the effluent is discharged into the watershed.  Likewise, when the water is slurped out by the acre-foot by the next city downriver, it is tested and re-treated to make sure it doesn’t harbor any noxious little critters that might make Johnny and Mary sick and Mommy and Daddy sue the city.  But — and if there are any exceptions they are very rare — organic contamination is all that water is tested for!  Most water companies, both public and private, are not required to test for more than a scant handful of contaminants, and none of them do any more than what is absolutely required.  They do not check for things like individual elements such as mercury, aluminum and boron, or for chemicals like dioxin or complex compounds of chlorine and flourine, or hundreds of other known deadly and harmful substances. Tell me, have you noticed lately how your toilet never seems to stain BELOW the waterline?  It may build up a hell of a ring of crud around and ABOVE the waterline, but isn’t it nice how bright and shiny the porcelain stays when its under water all the time?  Even scale deposits seem to take a lot longer to build up than they used to, don’t they?  And have you noticed that when they do finally build up in areas where there is really hard water, they come off easier than they used to?  What do you think causes that, boys and girls?  Can you spell chloroflurohydrocarbons?  You know, like carbon tetrachloride and c. tetraflouride, and other things we aren’t allowed to buy anymore to wash walls and strip paint with because they are so dangerous to the environment and people and other living things? Chlorine is added to our drinking water to sterilize it.  Flourine is added to our drinking water to make our teeth rot-resistant.  Aluminum is added to make our drinking water softer, so it makes prettier suds when we wash our clothes and our hands and faces.  Did we say water softeners?  Oh yes, those things that pull calcium atoms out of the water and replace them with sodium atoms instead.  Calcium atoms make your washwater dingy gray and suppress sudsing.  Sodium atoms don’t do that — they just rip the oxygen right out of the water molecule, leaving the hydrogen nothing to cling to.  Poor hydrogen.  Poor you, when it does its ripping right in one of the cells of your body….  But hey, your washwater looks good….   !! Seriously, though, I was in San Diego a few years ago, and suffering one of the worst flares of Crohn’s I’ve ever had. Nothing, and I mean, nothing, would slap it down.  Prednisone would knock it down for a day or two at best, and then, WHAM!  there it was back in full flare again!  For almost two months I kept a night light on and clean shorts in the bathroom.  My Doc (who was quite sympathetic and flexible) and I tried the whole spectrum of available drugs against it, to no avail.  Then!  I happened to read a tiny notice buried ‘way back in one of the newspapers about how the local water company had begun using a new combination of chemicals that would reduce and prevent any further buildup of scale in the piping system.  Oddly enough, they had begun using it right about the same time my Crohn’s flared and stayed flared.  Okay, sez I, easy way to find out if that’s what doing it — so I hied to the store and bought several jugs of distilled water.  Not drinking water, mind you, DISTILLED water.  Steam distilled.  Water sans everything un-watery. And guess what?  Easy, huh?  Yup, flaring subsided.  Like, BANG!  Down, Crohn’s!  Almost overnight the symptoms abated, and I mean drastically! So what’s happening?  For most people, the level of toxic chemicals in our drinking water is within ‘tolerance levels.’ Their bodies can handle them without getting ‘bent out of shape.’  We’re unfortunate.  We can’t.  We’re more sensitive to ingested chemicals, and they have a nasty effect on us.  They (the chemicals) attack our cells and tissues hour after hour, day after day.  Our bodies’ response is an increased sensitivity of our immune systems.  Something is attacking us, and our bodies naturally think it is something organic, a bacterium, virus, or parasite that can be killed and destroyed.  But of course, there isn’t one, only nasty molecules and free radicals of some very potent metals and poisons.  The cells lining our digestive tracts do the best they can to protect the rest of their less hardy compatriots (the rest of our innards).  They proliferate, thickening the bowel walls to insulate the outer surfaces from the poisons within while suffering the brunt of the damage themselves, deforming and becoming more tumor-like than bowel-tissue-like.  In the meantime, our immune systems, with nothing alien to the body

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Response:

Bill– As many of you have come to know or to suspect from reading the postings about treatments, drugs don’t work worth diddley squat and tend to cause more damn problems than they alleviate.  Prednisone is effective for slapping the disease down during a flare, and that’s all it’s good for.  There are no maintenance drugs or dosages, no matter what various people claim.  Yes, a few drugs WILL work, or seem to, for a FEW people, while a few others will have some success with a dietary regimin of one sort or another, but these are due to individual responses, not to any universal characteristic of the disease.

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on this…yes, drugs are a pain in the butt and they can have nasty side effects (Prednisone being one of the most evil, but also (depending on the person) the most effective) but the impression I get from you is that we should all throw them out because they don’t really do any good anyway.  Even if it is true that they only work for some people for a while, I would rather those people get that chance than ignore the possibilities of remission because they have been told that drugs don’t work. Do I think I know what causes our disease?   In thirty years, the demographics of Crohn’s hasn’t changed — it is still a disease of the First and Second World nations;  it is unknown in Third World countries and on American Indian reservations, even — or especially — when those reservations are side-by-side with major urban areas where Crohn’s DOES rear its ugly countenance. What it is, my friends and fellow sufferers, is WATER.  H20. American Indian reservations don’t get purified water either; even when the reservation is smack in the heart of a major city, as some are; they are NOT connected to the municipal water supply that everyone else is; they have their own wells and distribution systems.  Water goes directly from the ground to the reservation consumer without any intervening steps of ‘purification.’

It is an interesting thought and one I have considered over the years as well, but again, I don’t know that I agree with you.  I grew up in Alaska on well water–we were not connected to the city water in any way, shape, or form.  Yet I not only came down with CD on our well water, but had a truly terrible flareup while living in that same house.  Of course, I had ingested small amounts of city water at school, etc., but I don’t necessarily think that would be enough to set off the disease.  If it was, I think your comparison of the lack of CD in Native American reservations "wouldn’t hold water," if I may be allowed to make a horrible pun.  :)  The reason I draw the reservations into it is because later in your posting you talk about the water added to foods and fruit juices–I would think that a fair number of those foods, etc would be consumed by Natives on reservations and expose them as well. Of course, if you are making the claim that it takes LOTS and LOTS of "bad" water to set off CD, then you may have something there. I happened to read a tiny notice buried ‘way back in one of the newspapers about how the local water company had begun using a new combination of chemicals that would reduce and prevent any further buildup of scale in the piping system.  Oddly enough, they had begun using it right about the same time my Crohn’s flared and stayed flared.  Okay, sez I, easy way to find out if that’s what doing it — so I hied to the store and bought several jugs of distilled water.  Not drinking water, mind you, DISTILLED water.  Steam distilled.  Water sans everything un-watery. And guess what?  Easy, huh?  Yup, flaring subsided.  Like, BANG!  Down, Crohn’s!  Almost overnight the symptoms abated, and I mean drastically!

Hate to tell you this, but this is another case of "what works for some may not work for others" bit.  A few years ago, during a flare, I drank almost nothing but distilled water for about 4 months.  Didn’t do a damn bit of good.  Flared before, flared during, and flared afterward.  I *do* blame some major problems I had with my Crohn’s this fall as a result of MTBE being in our water; although I was not drinking any of it, I was having problems with dizziness and shortness of breath when showering.  This went on for four months, but as my husband showed no symptoms and I was in the midst of a bad flare, we just thought I was sick.  Later, we got a letter from our water company saying they had shut down the bad well and I haven’t had any problems since, but MTBE is in a whole ‘nother catagory than what you’ve been talking about, IMHO. The one TINY plus we get out of this is an unprecedented freedom from infection!  In thirty years I haven’t had a cold or the flu.  Cuts heal in what seems like no time at all, and without becoming infected or inflamed.  Once in a great rare while I’ll get a little inflammation at the site of a cut, but it seldom lasts more than two days — and heaven only knows what the offending organism would have done to an ‘ordinary’ person if the bug was so hardy as to be able to survive two days in contact with my body.

Again, what works for one does not necessarily work for all.  I used to get every little cold that even *thought* aobut looking my way.  Now that I’ve started taking flu shots I hardly ever get sick, so that is what works for me.  Plus, I have had more than one infection in the past, whether blood or a cut or what have you.  I *have* noticed that when I get a cold or something, staying in bed for two days and sleeping round the clock will cure 90% of what ails me.  Then again, that is fairly good advice for anyone, regardless of whether or not they have CD.         But, on the other hand, I have developed a whole slew of allergies, and each year seems to bring on another one or two.  Oh, well, win a little, lose a lot….

More indiviualistic response here…no problem with allergies here.  Stress is bad for us, because it (stress) heightens the immune response.  

Actually, it *weakens* the immune system, leaving you more prone to opportunistic infections, etc.  But I agree, stress is bad. If you aren’t already (heavily) filtering your water or using distilled bottled water, you might want to try doing so.  But then again, you’ve got Crohn’s — you don’t have to worry about how sterile your water is (within reason).

Uhhhhhh…That last sentence makes me uneasy.   If you want juices, squeeze your own if you can; most bottled and canned juices are made from reconstituted concentrates, which means the canner or bottler simply added TAP water back into it, and tap water is what you really want to avoid as much as possible.  And that means no sodas, no colas, no soft drinks, or at least very small amounts of them, for exactly the same reason.  If you aren’t already a ‘label’ reader, check out a few and see just how much water is added to how many different foods in preparation and processing.  Even the meats we buy have had water added to them!  (Water added Ham, anyone?)

Again, interesting thought, and if someone wants to give it a shot, by all means go for it, but I don’t know that this will work for everyone. Not trying to slam you, Bill–in fact, thanks for bringing up such a thought-provoking theory.  I just hope this doesn’t turn into another flame war. Erica – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill

Response:

Is distilled water available to buy?  I’ve only seen it in labs. –Roz

Response:

Greetings and felicitations to one and all:         I am a relative newcomer to this newsgroup, but an ‘old hand’ with Dr. Crohn’s source of fame.  My first symptoms began showing up ‘way back in 1965, but the disease wasn’t properly or adequately diagnosed for almost another twenty years.  Back then, what I had was ‘regional iliitis.’ I’ve had surgery twice, once in the early seventies and again in the mid-eighties, and have had right around five feet of small bowl removed all told.  I’ve had and have all the classic symptoms; 4 to 10 watery bowel movements daily, a low-grade fever throughout the day leading to ‘night sweats’ when it breaks about one and half to three hours after I go to sleep at night, crusty, inflamed eyes, pooping my britches in the middle of night when the disease is flaring, and, perhaps worst of all, the only form of arthritis associated with Crohn’s that isn’t reversable during periods of remission of the disease, ankylosing spondelitis (spinal arthritis). As many of you have come to know or to suspect from reading the postings about treatments, drugs don’t work worth diddley squat and tend to cause more damn problems than they alleviate.  Prednisone is effective for slapping the disease down during a flare, and that’s all it’s good for.  There are no maintenance drugs or dosages, no matter what various people claim.  Yes, a few drugs WILL work, or seem to, for a FEW people, while a few others will have some success with a dietary regimin of one sort or another, but these are due to individual responses, not to any universal characteristic of the disease.  Keep in mind that in any double blind trial of any drug or treatment, SOME people will respond positively to the placebo and not to the tested element.  It isn’t their fault, it isn’t the drug’s fault, it’s nobody’s fault — it’s just the way individuals respond — individually! Do I think I know what causes our disease?  You betcha I do!  It isn’t a bacterium, and it isn’t a virus, or even a protovirus.  It is not a parasite or a symbiont, or any living (or dead) thing.   In thirty years, the demographics of Crohn’s hasn’t changed — it is still a disease of the First and Second World nations;  it is unknown in Third World countries and on American Indian reservations, even — or especially — when those reservations are side-by-side with major urban areas where Crohn’s DOES rear its ugly countenance.  Any explanation of Crohn’s HAS to include and account for this simply because this is a basic and undeniable feature of the model of the disease.  It isn’t radar, or radio, or electromagnetic fields radiating from power transmission lines, nuclear fallout, holes in the ionosphere, or even HAARP.  What it is, my friends and fellow sufferers, is WATER.  H20. The one thing we all need to survive and can’t do without or escape or avoid. Water, he says!  What a crock, you say!  Ah, but think about it for just a moment….   The second thing a developing Third World country does, after buying weapons and nuclear reactors, is to construct water treatment plants for supplying ’safe’ drinking water to its citizens and visiting businessmen.  A country can’t be considered Second World if its people still dip water out of streams and well with buckets — civilization and civilized status require the turning on and off of taps for the procurement of water, regardless of whether one’s plumbing facilities are indoors or out. Third World countries don’t purify their water; people drink it as they get it, parasites, diseases and all.  American Indian reservations don’t get purified water either; even when the reservation is smack in the heart of a major city, as some are; they are NOT connected to the municipal water supply that everyone else is; they have their own wells and distribution systems.  Water goes directly from the ground to the reservation consumer without any intervening steps of ‘purification.’ But look at what the rest of us get.  Ycch!  The vast majority of us get our drinking water from rivers or from water tables that are replenished by rivers.  And, although it may sound paradoxical, the vast majority of us also live downstream from one or a dozen or more major urban centers, all of which use those same rivers and river systems to carry away their effluent wastes, that is, their sewage and industrial ‘byproducts.’ Because we are civilized, we do not allow municipalities and industries to contaminate our waters with raw sewage — we make them treat it with various noxious and toxic chemicals to ensure that no nasty organisms like e. coli, or typhus, or salmonella, or cholera are still alive when the shit hits the stream, er, I mean when the effluent is discharged into the watershed.  Likewise, when the water is slurped out by the acre-foot by the next city downriver, it is tested and re-treated to make sure it doesn’t harbor any noxious little critters that might make Johnny and Mary sick and Mommy and Daddy sue the city.  But — and if there are any exceptions they are very rare — organic contamination is all that water is tested for!  Most water companies, both public and private, are not required to test for more than a scant handful of contaminants, and none of them do any more than what is absolutely required.  They do not check for things like individual elements such as mercury, aluminum and boron, or for chemicals like dioxin or complex compounds of chlorine and flourine, or hundreds of other known deadly and harmful substances. Tell me, have you noticed lately how your toilet never seems to stain BELOW the waterline?  It may build up a hell of a ring of crud around and ABOVE the waterline, but isn’t it nice how bright and shiny the porcelain stays when its under water all the time?  Even scale deposits seem to take a lot longer to build up than they used to, don’t they?  And have you noticed that when they do finally build up in areas where there is really hard water, they come off easier than they used to?  What do you think causes that, boys and girls?  Can you spell chloroflurohydrocarbons?  You know, like carbon tetrachloride and c. tetraflouride, and other things we aren’t allowed to buy anymore to wash walls and strip paint with because they are so dangerous to the environment and people and other living things? Chlorine is added to our drinking water to sterilize it.  Flourine is added to our drinking water to make our teeth rot-resistant.  Aluminum is added to make our drinking water softer, so it makes prettier suds when we wash our clothes and our hands and faces.  Did we say water softeners?  Oh yes, those things that pull calcium atoms out of the water and replace them with sodium atoms instead.  Calcium atoms make your washwater dingy gray and suppress sudsing.  Sodium atoms don’t do that — they just rip the oxygen right out of the water molecule, leaving the hydrogen nothing to cling to.  Poor hydrogen.  Poor you, when it does its ripping right in one of the cells of your body….  But hey, your washwater looks good….   !! Seriously, though, I was in San Diego a few years ago, and suffering one of the worst flares of Crohn’s I’ve ever had. Nothing, and I mean, nothing, would slap it down.  Prednisone would knock it down for a day or two at best, and then, WHAM!  there it was back in full flare again!  For almost two months I kept a night light on and clean shorts in the bathroom.  My Doc (who was quite sympathetic and flexible) and I tried the whole spectrum of available drugs against it, to no avail.  Then!  I happened to read a tiny notice buried ‘way back in one of the newspapers about how the local water company had begun using a new combination of chemicals that would reduce and prevent any further buildup of scale in the piping system.  Oddly enough, they had begun using it right about the same time my Crohn’s flared and stayed flared.  Okay, sez I, easy way to find out if that’s what doing it — so I hied to the store and bought several jugs of distilled water.  Not drinking water, mind you, DISTILLED water.  Steam distilled.  Water sans everything un-watery. And guess what?  Easy, huh?  Yup, flaring subsided.  Like, BANG!  Down, Crohn’s!  Almost overnight the symptoms abated, and I mean drastically! So what’s happening?  For most people, the level of toxic chemicals in our drinking water is within ‘tolerance levels.’ Their bodies can handle them without getting ‘bent out of shape.’  We’re unfortunate.  We can’t.  We’re more sensitive to ingested chemicals, and they have a nasty effect on us.  They (the chemicals) attack our cells and tissues hour after hour, day after day.  Our bodies’ response is an increased sensitivity of our immune systems.  Something is attacking us, and our bodies naturally think it is something organic, a bacterium, virus, or parasite that can be killed and destroyed.  But of course, there isn’t one, only nasty molecules and free radicals of some very potent metals and poisons.  The cells lining our digestive tracts do the best they can to protect the rest of their less hardy compatriots (the rest of our innards).  They proliferate, thickening the bowel walls to insulate the outer surfaces from the poisons within while suffering the brunt of the damage themselves, deforming and becoming more tumor-like than bowel-tissue-like.  In the meantime, our immune systems, with nothing alien to the body to attack, begin to act like an over-manned army conscripted to police duty in a city; they relax the distinctions between friend and foe, between ‘citizen’ and ‘alien,’ and settle for ‘them’ and ‘us,’ going on what amounts to a rampage, attacking and destroying the body’s own ‘native’ cells for imaginary or non-existent reasons.   The one TINY plus we get out of this is an unprecedented freedom from infection!  In thirty years I haven’t had a cold or the flu.  Cuts heal in what seems like no time at all, and without becoming infected or inflamed.  Once in a great rare while … read more »

Response:

crohn's disease

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a 32 years old male whose been diagnosed with crohn’s disease for about twelve years and been operated once,nine years after being diagnosed and will probably get operated again with the rest of the statistic which will be in about seven years from now. It did wonders for me after the operation because of the no more lying down on the stomach to let go gas and always been crouched all the time, well you know .(anybody who has it knows what i’m talking about) After the operation I’ve been living a normal life even though they had to take fourteen inches of my small intestine it’s been great. I’ve been playing all kinds of sport activities in which I used to do before the operation and it’s the same in the physical department. Through my experience I’ve notice important foods and liquids not to take or ease down on it, here are a few examples(Fried foods,Skin on the apple,not to much of Milk,coffee,coke or pepsi,Spicey foods,May West cakes and twinkies etc…,Ice cream,cheese)well those are the few examples from my experience through my years of living with Crohn’s. Instead of Frying your fries why not cook them in the conventional oven and also I,ve notice that drinking a lot of WATER is the best medicine that you can drink. I’f your a person who is in a lot of stress or just have stress you must encounter sometimes IBD( inflammatory bowel disease)pain. Well all you have to do is exercise,go for walks,mountain biking etc…you will see the changes in your body meaning you’ll feel much better presuming you’re careful of what you eat. Well in conclusion I would like to say hang in there and feel free to say whatever you want to tell in the newsgroups about this painful disease. MARC ONTARIO,CANADA

In gentral I agree with you Marc, but every body is different. Personally I don’t find spicey food hard on my body, but any milk product is a no no. blackp

Response:

I’m a 32 years old male whose been diagnosed with crohn’s disease for about twelve years and been operated once,nine years after being diagnosed and will probably get operated again with the rest of the statistic which will be in about seven years from now. It did wonders for me after the operation because of the no more lying down on the stomach to let go gas and always been crouched all the time, well you know .(anybody who has it knows what i’m talking about) After the operation I’ve been living a normal life even though they had to take fourteen inches of my small intestine it’s been great. I’ve been playing all kinds of sport activities in which I used to do before the operation and it’s the same in the physical department. Through my experience I’ve notice important foods and liquids not to take or ease down on it, here are a few examples(Fried foods,Skin on the apple,not to much of Milk,coffee,coke or pepsi,Spicey foods,May West cakes and twinkies etc…,Ice cream,cheese)well those are the few examples from my experience through my years of living with Crohn’s. Instead of Frying your fries why not cook them in the conventional oven and also I,ve notice that drinking a lot of WATER is the best medicine that you can drink. I’f your a person who is in a lot of stress or just have stress you must encounter sometimes IBD( inflammatory bowel disease)pain. Well all you have to do is exercise,go for walks,mountain biking etc…you will see the changes in your body meaning you’ll feel much better presuming you’re careful of what you eat. Well in conclusion I would like to say hang in there and feel free to say whatever you want to tell in the newsgroups about this painful disease. MARC ONTARIO,CANADA

Response:

I may be able to help, I had a friend in Windsor Ontario, given up by his medical practitioner as incureable, has been under control for some time now. He used natural herbs and I don’t know if you can be helped but it may be worth a try.

Response:

We have a friend in Windsor Ontario, sent home as incureable, used natural herbs, has been under control forsome time now. Don’t know if your friend can be helped but the information may help. By the way, where do you live, what city,country ?.

Response:

I may be able to help, I had a friend in Windsor Ontario, given up by his medical practitioner as incureable, has been under control for some time now. He used natural herbs and I don’t know if you can be helped but it may be worth a try.

Response:

We have a friend in Windsor Ontario, sent home as incureable, used natural herbs, has been under control forsome time now. Don’t know if your friend can be helped but the information may help. By the way, where do you live, what city,country ?.

Response:

colon operation

Question:

Randy, it sounds like your wife has a problem with peristalsis – which is basically the muscular contractions that the colon makes that passes food along it. This is what the doctor probably means when he says that her colon is "not working". It could also explain how her colon can go "bad" – everthing basically sits around and ferments – causing gas, bloating etc. If there happened to be any cut etc. in the lining of the colon, having stuff basically rot in your gut can be VERY dangerous – be careful. (By the way – DROP THAT DR. IMMEDIATELY – the LAST thing you want if you are considering surgery is someone whoe doesn’t take the time to explain things to you.) If the new Dr. and you and your wife decide on surgery – there is a procedure (called a J-pouch or technically Ileoanal pouch anastomosis) that can give her great relief and normal life. I had this done a year ago and haven’t looked back. But make sure you get a competent surgeon (this is a very delicate surgery – and only highly trained/skilled surgeons should do it.) Good luck anti biotics etc., he said that she was close to ganggreen. After being released from the hospital (with no "name" for her

condition), she went through up until about a month ago when she had another severe episode, and also

started bleeding again for the second time. She called the doctor and had all the tests done. The colonoscopy showed a small section of colon that was "bad"… it was

going inside itself. After seeing the results of the marker test, he said a complete (with

exception of a small section at the rectum) colectomy would need to be done. Thats when I started finding information has been TOTALLY fruitless… the doctor told her her colon "didn’t work" whole colon removed, I am hoping to find some individuals who have gone

through the operation so – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – she knows what to expect as far as the operation itself, how dangerous it can be, and how "normal" her life will be after the operation.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I heard a doc say last year that, in a surprising (to me) number of IBD cases (I think the number he said was 40%), there is NO conclusive diagnosis of Crohn’s vs ulcerative colitis vs other inflammatory conditions — not even after tissue samples are examined by the pathologists. A situation like that is simply beyond the current capability of medicine to put a definitive name on. Sure, get a second and even a third opinion — but if they’re all inconclusive, then maybe this woman falls into that unlucky 40%. The lack of a diagnosis that all the docs will agree on doesn’t necessarily mean that the woman shouldn’t have the surgery, if her condition is dangerous. — Wayne Marsh, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

A specialist I went to for a second opinion told me that about 20% of cases of IBD are "indeterminate colitis", meaning, like in my case, looking like UC but with at least some sign of CD, though not conclusive one way or the other. It does make it harder to make any judgement about surgery. Like I heard in a commercial for lottery tickets, "Hey, you never know!" Prakash

Response:

Dear ?: My personal opinion is that I would never let a doctor touch me with a knife without having a definitive diagnosis with supporting data. Removing intestine is a serious operation. I personally have barely recovered from my surgery 6 years ago. Without a diagnosis there is no favorable statistics supporting non-reoccurance of the problem. She should get more than just one other opinion. The incidence of future surgery after the first is in the order of 10 times greater for additional surgery. MOST CONDITIONS CAN BE TREATED EFFECTIVELY WITHOUT SURGERY. Search out a diagnosis first. The tests are worth the trouble. I have had every bowel test that exists and non are as bad as having gut removed.

Response:

        Get a second, third, fourth, etcetera opinion.  Until you have been given a meaningful name for the condition, one that you can look up in a medical dictionary at a Library, do not let your wife go for an operation.

I heard a doc say last year that, in a surprising (to me) number of IBD cases (I think the number he said was 40%), there is NO conclusive diagnosis of Crohn’s vs ulcerative colitis vs other inflammatory conditions — not even after tissue samples are examined by the pathologists. A situation like that is simply beyond the current capability of medicine to put a definitive name on. Sure, get a second and even a third opinion — but if they’re all inconclusive, then maybe this woman falls into that unlucky 40%. The lack of a diagnosis that all the docs will agree on doesn’t necessarily mean that the woman shouldn’t have the surgery, if her condition is dangerous. — Wayne Marsh, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Response:

[...snip...] because we have not been givin a "name" for it, which is part of the problem.

[...snip...]                        ^^^^ Randy,         Get a second, third, fourth, etcetera opinion.  Until you have been given a meaningful name for the condition, one that you can look up in a medical dictionary at a Library, do not let your wife go for an operation.  Just knowing that it is "Farnarkling Ribersonitis" is not sufficient, you have to know _what_ it means.         Many of the people in this newsgroup can tell you about years of mis-diagnosis, some can talk about surgery which did not work, but even those who have had surgery which helped them would (should?) blanch at the thought of surgery without _full_ understanding of what is wrong.         I have a vague memory from about 15 years ago, when I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome, (possibly a precursor/misdiagnosis of the Crohn’s Disease), of a form of Spastic Colon which involved it "folding inside itself" and becoming gangrenous, but I have no real recollection of what it was, it was mentioned in passing, as a "maybe if it gets worse" sort of a thing.         I repeat, get further opinions, until you are _both_ happy with the diagnosis, and completely sure about what it is and what to do.         Hopefully the advice you get from the users of this newsgroup will help you and your wife get the help that is needed.         Cheers,                 Gary    B-) [Posted and Mailed] —   Gary R. Schmidt          Internet/ACSNet/FishNet:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Randy, I read your message today and wanted to respond regarding your wife’s intestinal problem. I’m not a professional, but I have been living with Crohn’s Disease for about 10 years now and her symptoms seem in line with some type of Intestinal Bowl Disease (IBD). PLEASE ENCOURAGE HER TO GET A SECOND, EVEN THIRD OPINION BEFORE ANY SURGERY!!!! It could unfortunately mean more testing, but it’s well worth it if it could prevent any unnecessary surgery, or even to have a proper diagnosis! You can have any records transferred to another doctor or hospital so that she dosen’t have to repeat any tests she already recently had. When I was first diagnosed, I had two other opinions myself before I was satisfied that I had all the answers to my medical questions. For a referral or more info, take a look at a web page called CCFA (Crohns & Colitis Foundation of America). They might be able to help. If you want, I can send you additional web sites that I found to be helpful as well. I wish you and your wife a lot of luck and I will say some prayers that she gets the answers she is looking for. It can be frustrating when Dr’s cannot give you intelligent answers to legimitae quesions regarding your health care. That’s when you have to "take charge" of your care and seek out information yourself. Peace,

Dear Heather Thank you very much for taking the time to respond., I had Connie read this and another message (along the same lines, about another oppinion)… and hopefully I can sway her into it… I am just at a loss.. I am the nervous type, and when it comes to things like this, they REALLY bother me.. and am quite sure she is not to fond of the idea eighther :) .. take care!! (by the way, I like the "Peace" tag.. I miss the days of the peace sign haha) Randy & Connie

Response:

Dear Randy, I read your message today and wanted to respond regarding your wife’s intestinal problem. I’m not a professional, but I have been living with Crohn’s Disease for about 10 years now and her symptoms seem in line with some type of Intestinal Bowl Disease (IBD). PLEASE ENCOURAGE HER TO GET A SECOND, EVEN THIRD OPINION BEFORE ANY SURGERY!!!! It could unfortunately mean more testing, but it’s well worth it if it could prevent any unnecessary surgery, or even to have a proper diagnosis! You can have any records transferred to another doctor or hospital so that she dosen’t have to repeat any tests she already recently had. When I was first diagnosed, I had two other opinions myself before I was satisfied that I had all the answers to my medical questions. For a referral or more info, take a look at a web page called CCFA (Crohns & Colitis Foundation of America). They might be able to help. If you want, I can send you additional web sites that I found to be helpful as well. I wish you and your wife a lot of luck and I will say some prayers that she gets the answers she is looking for. It can be frustrating when Dr’s cannot give you intelligent answers to legimitae quesions regarding your health care. That’s when you have to "take charge" of your care and seek out information yourself. Peace,

Response:

Hi all! I am new to this group.., (actually new to news groups all together). I have been in search of a group to get some input on a condition my wife has.., I call it a condition because we have not been givin a "name" for it, which is part of the problem. Without a name it’s been hard to find anything on the internet, till I was told

about "news groups". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I want to try and explain the whole picture in case someone out there can give me some input., hopefully I won’t take up too much message space :) As it sits now, the doctor wants to do a sub-total colectomy.. basically the whole colon with exception of a small section attached to the rectum, which the small intestines will then be attached to. This is why I am DESPERATELLY seeking any and all information I can. I just don’t want to see her have her whole colon removed if there is ANY chance there is an alternative route. My wife (Connie) is now 34 years old, in her early twenties she had

problems with bloating constipation, cramps etc.., then when she got pregnant with my daughter nine years ago all the problems screeched to a halt. Once the baby was born the problems came back and over time worsened conciderably. One night about 6 years ago, she had an

episode so bad that she started bleeding and had pain that was un bearable. She was taken to the emergency room and admitted to the hospital. The Doctor (the one she sees now) was quick to opt for surgery, but with some persuasion to take any other route, he tried pumpimg her with anti biotics etc., he said that she was close to ganggreen. After being released from the hospital (with no "name" for her

condition), she went through weekly episodes (she only moves her bowles once a week) of severe pain,

cramping, and hours in the restroom, after the episodes she is completelly drained of energy,

and has considerable discompfort for some hours. This has gone on since her trip to the hospital 6 years ago, but with no blood, just the cramping, severe pain, the sweats,and being in the restroom anywhere from

45 min. to hours etc., up until about a month ago when she had another severe episode, and also

started bleeding again for the second time. She called the doctor and had all the tests done. The colonoscopy showed a small section of colon that was "bad"… it was

going inside itself. At this point he had said that a partial colectomy would be needed, which wasn’t surprising to hear. He then gave her a test that consisted of a pill with markers in it so

the digestion could be monitored. From what my wife recalls there were probably about 30

markers in the pill, and according to the doctor the markers should have gone through her

system in a maximum of 5 days. But in 8 days there were still approx 10 markers in her upper

right colon, about 8 in the lower left colon, and 2 in the bottom middle (close to being passed). After seeing the results of the marker test, he said a complete (with

exception of a small section at the rectum) colectomy would need to be done. Thats when I

started looking though the internet for more information, and how I finally ended up here where I am HOPING to get some input from anyone proffesional or just people that have had anything simialar. Everything I had found on the internet (not user groups) had alot of

refference to Crohns disease, IBD etc.. the most frustrating thing is we don’t know WHAT her condition is, so finding information has been TOTALLY fruitless… the doctor told her her colon "didn’t work" properly which doesn’t help much in finding information. And if she does

have to have the the whole colon removed, I am hoping to find some individuals who have gone

through the operation so she knows what to expect as far as the operation itself, how dangerous it can be, and how "normal" her life will be after the operation. I am trying to talk her into seeing another doctor for a sQTB Series –

qtb0020.jpg (1/1)                          1xplain all of her options. The centers that specialize in these types of conditions include Cleveland Clinic, Mayo clinic, and Mt. Sinai medical center in NYC. [posted and mailed] Larry Finch

Response:

Hi all! I am new to this group.., (actually new to news groups all together). I have been in search of a group to get some input on a condition my wife has.., I call it a condition because we have not been givin a "name" for it, which is part of the problem. Without a name it’s been hard to find anything on the internet, till I was told about "news groups". I want to try and explain the whole picture in case someone out there can give me some input., hopefully I won’t take up too much message space :) As it sits now, the doctor wants to do a sub-total colectomy.. basically the whole colon with exception of a small section attached to the rectum, which the small intestines will then be attached to. This is why I am DESPERATELLY seeking any and all information I can. I just don’t want to see her have her whole colon removed if there is ANY chance there is an alternative route. My wife (Connie) is now 34 years old, in her early twenties she had problems with bloating constipation, cramps etc.., then when she got pregnant with my daughter nine years ago all the problems screeched to a halt. Once the baby was born the problems came back and over time worsened conciderably. One night about 6 years ago, she had an episode so bad that she started bleeding and had pain that was un bearable. She was taken to the emergency room and admitted to the hospital. The Doctor (the one she sees now) was quick to opt for surgery, but with some persuasion to take any other route, he tried pumpimg her with anti biotics etc., he said that she was close to ganggreen. After being released from the hospital (with no "name" for her condition), she went through weekly episodes (she only moves her bowles once a week) of severe pain, cramping, and hours in the restroom, after the episodes she is completelly drained of energy, and has considerable discompfort for some hours. This has gone on since her trip to the hospital 6 years ago, but with no blood, just the cramping, severe pain, the sweats,and being in the restroom anywhere from 45 min. to hours etc., up until about a month ago when she had another severe episode, and also started bleeding again for the second time. She called the doctor and had all the tests done. The colonoscopy showed a small section of colon that was "bad"… it was going inside itself. At this point he had said that a partial colectomy would be needed, which wasn’t surprising to hear. He then gave her a test that consisted of a pill with markers in it so the digestion could be monitored. From what my wife recalls there were probably about 30 markers in the pill, and according to the doctor the markers should have gone through her system in a maximum of 5 days. But in 8 days there were still approx 10 markers in her upper right colon, about 8 in the lower left colon, and 2 in the bottom middle (close to being passed). After seeing the results of the marker test, he said a complete (with exception of a small section at the rectum) colectomy would need to be done. Thats when I started looking though the internet for more information, and how I finally ended up here where I am HOPING to get some input from anyone proffesional or just people that have had anything simialar. Everything I had found on the internet (not user groups) had alot of refference to Crohns disease, IBD etc.. the most frustrating thing is we don’t know WHAT her condition is, so finding information has been TOTALLY fruitless… the doctor told her her colon "didn’t work" properly which doesn’t help much in finding information. And if she does have to have the the whole colon removed, I am hoping to find some individuals who have gone through the operation so she knows what to expect as far as the operation itself, how dangerous it can be, and how "normal" her life will be after the operation. I am trying to talk her into seeing another doctor for a second opinion, just for completeness, but the thought of going through all those unpleasant tests again just doesn’t appeal to her. I appologise for the long winded message, but I wanted as much information down as possible listed for anyone who might give us some information/advise/clues/experience.. I would be VERY greatfull for anyones input, the lack of information to us from the Doctor has been VERY frustrating to say the very least, not that this makes him a bad doctor, he for some reason doesn’t give up "extra" information unless he is nailed down, and I honestly don’t think he knows exactly what to call her condition or I would think he would let us in on it. ANY AND ALL information or input is VERY VERY appreciated!!!

Response: