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I am searching for a copy of Paul Sorvino’s book on living with asthma. Would appreciate any assistance locating this book. Thanks
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I am searching for a copy of Paul Sorvino’s book on living with asthma. Would appreciate any assistance locating this book. Thanks
have you tried amazon.com ?
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I am searching for a copy of Paul Sorvino’s book on living with asthma. Would appreciate any assistance locating this book. Thanks
I understand Sorvino’s book is out of print. However there is a similar book with some of the same material called ‘Reversing Asthma’, Richard Firshein, DO, c96, Warner Books. Dr. Firshein is Medical Director of the Paul Sorvino Asthma Foundation. The forward to ‘Reversing Asthma’ is written by Paul Sorvino. Any bookstore can order or availabe on line. Here’s a link: http://www.alternativemedcenter.com/book.html ‘Reversing Asthma’ Ellis
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I am searching for a copy of Paul Sorvino’s book on living with asthma. Would appreciate any assistance locating this book. Thanks
If its out of print, try www.bibliofind.com I have found this really useful. Tom — Web site: Journey of Life at http://www.lifejourney.co.uk —
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". Yes. I hate white ruffly lacy things. I hate cheap gold (or silver) plastic. Why I would suddenly start paying marked up bridal prices for things that I wouldn’t have near me any other time?
But don’t forget that there are people who like a lot of that stuff. I, for one, love white ruffly lacy things. I agree that plastic gold and silver stuff just looks cheap and won’t touch it either. Other things I’d suggest: Either stock or keep notes on sources for things in unusual sizes- I’m thinking specifically things like undergarments to go with the dresses. (Once you get above a C cup, things get much harder to find ime.) Possibly even just trying to make arrangements with other independent shops in the area, to have a small display, if you don’t want to stock the items yourself. (You could do this with shoes, as well, if you don’t want to carry them yourself.)
This makes me remember my dress shopping experience – Have a carpeted floor in your dressing area. Make sure the carpet is clean! And it is a sign of a good shop when they make you take your shoes off at the door. But provide a neat and clean and large enough place for people to place their shoes. In some places, I was reluctant to take off my shoes because they looked like they would get trampled on. The clean carpet in the shop made me feel more at home and comfortable. Also, maybe put together a scrapbook of different "looks" people can have for things? (I’m thinking specifically hairstyles and veils here. Include non-veil things, like flowers. Sure, they may not end up buying a veil as a result, but I’d be more inclined to pay more for a dress from a store that was helpful than pay less to get it from a big discount place.) Try to organize it by dress style, so if you have someone in saying "I like the dress, but I don’t know what I’d do with my hair" you can whip out the book and turn to the pages and let the bride look through it. Might make the difference between a sale or not.
This is a wonderful idea. Maybe even just have a catalogue that features the dresses you sell as a starting point. I was thrilled to take home a catalogue at a place where I could say, "I tried on that dress! It looked as good on me as it does on her!" Have comfortable places for people to sit, and also put the dressing rooms somewhere where the people trying on dresses don’t feel like they’re on show to everyone when they come out to show the dress to their companions. (I *hate* feeling exposed when I’m trying on clothes, so make sure your dressing rooms are nice and solid feeling, too. 
And more importantly – have the dressing room BIG enough! Ack! Try having two "Cinderella" dresses and a person trying one on in a dressing room the size of a single shower! Nasty! I was all hot and sweaty after trying on one dress. Please, please, please, have air conditioning and large dressing rooms! (I was trying on dresses in mid July – 32 degrees C). It is a very hot experience to try on any more than one dress in a shop. I’d say at LEAST 6 by 8 feet. And if you don’t want to see dresses lying on the floor, be sure to put up LOTS of hooks in the dressing room. Maybe have a quilt rack in the room too, so that when the lady takes off the dress, she can drape it over the quilt rack rather than having it fall to the floor. Alternatively, you could do what one store did, the saleslady went in with me to help me into and out of the dress. She hung it up immediately. I did feel rather uncomfortable having a stranger in there though, so I don’t think it’s the best option. I don’t know if it’s normally done (haven’t been wedding dress shopping for myself yet, and I don’t remember from when I was with someone else) but maybe have some different style bouquets made up in silks so people can, if they want, get an idea of the whole look?
This is a nice idea. The friend I was with insisted I hold the little silk bouquet they had at one shop. I felt silly though, because it was NOTHING like the bouquet I would ever touch. Speaking of ideas of the whole look, I think it goes without saying that you should have mirrors set up so the one wearing the dress can see the whole thing. I also liked having a raised dias to stand on. Make it small enough so that when a short person stands on it, the dress will fall around it so she can see how it will hang when it actually fits her. I did not have this problem, as I am tall enough to fit these dresses but my much shorter friend noticed it. Helen (to Greg) August 5, 2000
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I hate bridal shops that order dresses in a size too big so they can get you with expensive alterations. Let brides see the manufacturer’s sizing chart so they know they’re getting the closest match to their size.
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference.
many people suggested variety, but remember that variety is not only in style, but SIZE too. don’t stock just your run- of-the-mill size 10’s. keep in mind that while the "average" female may be a size 12, that translates to a 16 or an 18 in bridal sizes. on top of that, stock a few dresses for the plus-size bride and bridesmaid too. there’s nothing worse than trying on dresses that come nowhere near close to fitting and trying to figure out how it would look if it DID fit. you can always pin the dress back to emulate the alteration, but you can’t let it out on the shop floor. something else to consider… when i was trying on dresses it was hard to see what the train would look like bustled. you might want to stock some of your samples with the bustling already in so we could see how the train REALLY lies on the skirt without someone holding it up and saying "well it’ll kind of do this and that and this will go here, sort of." jen (& jeff) 9/19/99 * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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A minimum of snobbishness is a must, in my book. I can’t even express to you what rudeness I encountered at some places simply because I’m not a debutante and I’m paying for my wedding myself, instead of my parents paying for the whole thing. I bought a beautiful wedding dress for only $400, but many of the store clerks I talked to before I found the wonderful store where I finally bought my dress made me feel like I was just trash if my dress didn’t cost at least $1,000. I don’t think brides-on-a-budget should have to feel ashamed of telling bridal store clerks that they are on a tight budget and can’t spend thousands on a dress. One clerk, when she found out what my budget was for a dress, actually laughed and turned and walked off without another word. Jeez… ~Amy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference. -Thanks in advance, Ev B. and JK
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I think the first thing the majority of newly engaged brides to be, is go look for a dress. Do some research in your area and recommend good photographers, tux rental shops, decorators, halls, caterers, DJ’s bands, etc. Keep some of their business cards on hand. I think this helps all brides to get a good recommendation. Heather (to Kurt) 9-4-99
: My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some : help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their : friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike : about there shopping experience. : : So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please : e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of : difference. : : -Thanks in advance, : Ev B. and JK : :
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". Yes. I hate white ruffly lacy things. I hate cheap gold (or silver) plastic. Why I would suddenly start paying marked up bridal prices for things that I wouldn’t have near me any other time? But don’t forget that there are people who like a lot of that stuff. I, for one, love white ruffly lacy things. I agree that plastic gold and silver stuff just looks cheap and won’t touch it either.
Oh, I’m not saying not to have it. Just that there shouldn’t be white ruffly stuff exclusively. (And even with white ruffly stuff, get quality- If I can tell that something is blatently just hot glued onto something normal, like some unity candles and similar things i’ve seen, I will, more than likely, just make my next stop the craft store, where I can buy white ruffles and lace and a hot glue gun, and make the same thing, quite possibly better looking because I’d take more care in the construction, for much much less.) Also, I’d suggest grouping things approximately by style, so that I can see that there *is* stuff other than white ruffles at a glance- If I have to dig through things to find the plain stuff, I’ll probably just assume there *isn’t* any, and stop looking. Have comfortable places for people to sit, and also put the dressing rooms somewhere where the people trying on dresses don’t feel like they’re on show to everyone when they come out to show the dress to their companions. (I *hate* feeling exposed when I’m trying on clothes, so make sure your dressing rooms are nice and solid feeling, too. And more importantly – have the dressing room BIG enough! Ack! Try
I think a key is to make sure *everything* is big enough. Most wedding gowns are not small- it is *not* going to show them off to best advantage to make people look at them in a cramped area. (I mean, how are you supposed to see how beautiful the cathedral length train is if there’s no room for it to be spread out?) rack rather than having it fall to the floor. Alternatively, you could do what one store did, the saleslady went in with me to help me into and out of the dress. She hung it up immediately. I did feel rather uncomfortable having a stranger in there though, so I don’t think it’s the best option.
A solution to this would be sort of "double room" dressing rooms. I’m not sure exactly how you’d work it out, but something so that people can be in private when they’re stripped down to nothing, but still be able to come out for help in doing up the dress and be able to hand things out and that sort of thing. (Some dressing rooms in the UK are styled so that there are smaller individual rooms off of a larger communal room, which is still shielded from the rest of the store with a door/curtain. The individual rooms then just have curtains, but since access to the communal room is restricted anyway, there’s not so much worry about the curtain not quite staying put. If you did it like that, the staff could just wait in the communal area with all the dresses save the one that’s actually being tried on.) Something else which has occured to me is, if you’re going to have flower girl dresses and things like that which will encourage young children to be brought in, make sure there’s some way of keeping them from pestering your other customers. I don’t really like young children, particularly when I don’t know them, and they’re running around screaming and being pests. I can’t imagine that they’d *help* the experience at all if I was already stressed about wedding things. (And I imagine that goes for brides who do like children as well.) -Kris
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To the original poster, you might spend some time using DejaNews. Search the wedding groups for "dress shopping" "selection" "sizing" and, of course, "rant".
Ooooh…Don’t forget to do a search on "David’s". You’ll find a lot of good "how not to run a bridal shop" stories there! (Yes yes…I know there are people who liked the staff at David’s as well…but the posts seem to run about 5 to 1 against. The good stories serve to illustrate the way things ought to be anyway). — Steve
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If you have accessories, have them reasonably priced! I can’t tell you how many things I saw in bridal salons 3, 4, 5 times the price I saw in invitation catalogs. Also, I saw a pair of earrings I liked…$25…saw the exact same pair, same brand, on the same card…$3 at a mall store!
Yup. Planning a wedding doesn’t make people turn stupid. (Well, not most of the time. I respect the need to make a profit, but you shouldn’t do it by being unfair. Have helpful employees but let them know when to back off! No hovering…I’m not going to steal the dress off the rack and run out of the store with it. Also, when someone says they want a plain, classic look, no beads, sequins…believe her…do not say "No you don’t!" and start pulling out pou-pou dresses!
I can understand why a salon might want to have someone on staff helping with handling the dresses- it is an investment and they can be awkward. I think it is important that the staff do know when to back off in a less physical sense, though. (Some people might like *some* recommendations and assistance, but if it’s clear that the customer just wants to look, the staff should keep quiet and just assist with looking.) Maybe have an area of the store where a couple of dresses can be hung for customers to look at without assistance. (So the staff can just get the dresses out, and hang them to be looked at, then retreat.) Maybe figure out something "different" to sell??? I don’t know how to explain what I mean by this…but to me…every shop seemed the same after a while…not every bride wants to look like a carbon copy of every other.
I’d suggest trying for a different "look" as well, in the interior of the store itself. Something neutral (but not *white*- gotta have some colour and airy, but not overly feminine. You’ll have enough puffy lace and things in the store with the wedding dresses. You don’t need puffy lace curtains and pink carpets and pink floral wall paper as well. (In fact, personally, such things would interfere with me looking at the dresses, if I didn’t just run away screaming at first glance. The more cramped the area is, the less plesant to shop in it.) Also, I think the suggestions about the lighting are good- if it’s more cost effective, you could have part flourescent, part (where people will be looking at dresses and trying them on, instead of accessories and things) full spectrum. Remember, as well, that you need to be careful with the dresses and sun, as it can fade or change the colours. (I’d suggest keeping swatches of the actual fabric colours someplace where they won’t be handled or in the light a lot, so you can show people the true colour of the fabric. Samples sometimes subtly alter shade, so something that seems a very pale ivory is really a stark white, and the bride doesn’t find out until her dress arrives, and on that bride, stark white may well look horrible. -Kris
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[snip] Dresses were the worst, I think. So many of them have so much STUFF, and these seem to be the ones that the sales people push the most, because they are often more expensive (they can charge extra for all the "hand beading").
[snip] I hear you… The reason why I didn’t like many dresses I saw when I went shopping is because I wanted a simpler gown, no beading, no sequins, etc. I didn’t have much luck finding one that didn’t give me a heart attack with the price tag! But then, I also didn’t want to spend that much on a dress I’d only wear one day. I would’ve liked to see more variety as well–REAL variety, as you said. Simpler gowns for people like me (or second-time brides), and more elaborate ones for those with more elaborate tastes. That, and friendly service, people who don’t push you to buy more than you need or hover over you like a vulture. Discreet salespeople who know when to come over and help and know when to back off and let the bride decide. An honesty in terms of given estimates, returns, etc. Ariane
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I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it".
[Abigail, thanks for the great description!] To the original poster, you might spend some time using DejaNews. Search the wedding groups for "dress shopping" "selection" "sizing" and, of course, "rant". Aside from providing excellent customer service to everyone, regardless of your impression as a bride walks through the door, there are several "issues" that seem to come up with the evil bridal shops (EBS). EBS cut tags from their dresses to hide the manufacturer and style number so that the consumer can’t price shop. If you don’t know what you are doing, this is illegal. If you know what you are doing (how to replace a tag to meet federal regulations), this is still a bad indicator to many brides. To me, this implies you can’t compete on pricing and service without adding deception to your marketing skills. You should know your competition. Today, it isn’t just Snooty Salon (Serving Hometown Since 1942). DBS and other online retailers are ready to serve your local customer base at a discount, so consider whether you want to sell at MSRP without considering a discount for your customers. When it comes down to it, and someone feels passionately that this is Her Dress, you know that a sale will be made. If you know she is going to buy this particular dress at the best price, you’ll need to decide if it’s going to be to you at less than full retail or to someone across the country at their standard discount. Would you rather have a $200 profit and local word of mouth or do you want to hold out for the $400 profit, even if it means losing the order? Please do read the rants in the Dejanews archives about the insensative comments assistants can make, particularly to women who will not be able to try on a sample size. You might consider investing your money in buying dresses to use as samples in larger sizes. Reading the descriptions of awful salespeople who insist a woman can tell how the dress will look on her just by holding it in front of her is painful. A good salon will not practice unintentional cruelty and will have something to offer a larger person — or to those who fall on the other side of the scale in size 0. Don’t suggest they check out communion dresses! 
If you can’t invest the money up front, consider offering to buy back *select* dresses in "non-sample" sizes that you can then use as samples. You don’t have to buy one of everything — but if there is a style that is particularly flattering to a petite or woman’s size, and you know the woman will likely consign her dress, get it for your future customers. For that matter, borrow a tactic from my car dealership. They keep a scrapbook of "happy customers" with photos of people with their cars on the day they pick it up. (Yeah, sappy, I know.) *BUT* think what a great resource this would be if you could get photographs of the women in their dresses after the alterations and/or on their wedding day. Future customers would be able to see how the dress looks on various body types "in real life" and get an idea for different details that flatter different features. I have no idea how much markup there is on the typical veil, but consider offering a section of materials (and/or a designer/crafter) who can do custom work. (See Abilgal’s paragraph quoted above) See other’s comments about white, beaded, and satiny "accessories". Instead of presenting feather pens as the right thing to use on the guest table, have some regular "cool" pens as an alternative that isn’t fluffy. Skip those ugly cheap screen printed "Bride/Groom" toasting glasses, and stock real cystal (even if you buy it off the clearance table at the department store). If you can stock some nice archival quality photo albums for those who won’t be buying a $1500+ package from a photographer, I think these would do well. If you are up to it and have a connection, get an antique dealer to go in with you for a vintage corner. (Not consignment type dresses that are 3 years old, but vintage — from the 50s or earlier) Stock some funky vintage jewelry — it’s okay if you don’t have seven identical copies of each piece — try to offer an alternative to those who don’t want pearls and Swarovski crystal. Include information on what each customer should do with her dress afterwards for safekeeping. Point out the shoulder straps and other features that should be used to hang the dress safely. If the customer is buying serveral months prior to the wedding, offer advice on storing the dress to avoid yellowing/damage. Set up a database and send an anniversary card (to build word of mouth). Let the mothers take photographs of their daughters. Realize that this is A Very Special Time for some of them, and mom might have reserved a page in the baby book 25 years ago for just this day. Don’t pressure the customer. If the price is 10% off if she buys today, you can offer 10% off next week after she’s had time to look at the budget and be sure. Do not charge a fee for keeping a bride’s "preferences" on file. Don’t sell your customers’ names to the tux shop and the DJ down the street. Be fair to the customer and don’t tack on ‘rush’ charges when they are not required. Be proactive in letting the customer know the status of her dress. Call to let her know you placed the order and it should be in ___. Call the manufacturer a week before ___ if the dress hasn’t arrived so that you’ll be ready to answer questions. Call the bride the day her dress gets in. (See the "my dress is HERE" threads in dejanews to confirm how happy this makes people.) If the dress arrives well ahead of schedule this makes *you* look good. If the dress is late for any reason, do what is fair to make concessions to the bride. Even if it’s only taking $25 off for the stress and inconvenience. Even if it NOT your fault. Once the dress is in the shop, do NOT let anyone else try on the dress or use it as a sample just because "I have a size 12 that just came in today." This should be obvious, but it happens. Have a comfortable place for friends and family to sit. — Josie
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I recently decided to purchase my gown from the store where I tried it on, even though I could save $150 by purchasing it elsewhere. This is true for several reasons: 1. The large range of sample sizes. In street clothes, I wear a 12 (US) but I struggled to fit into wedding gowns size 16+. This shop carried samples from size 6 to size 20, instead of all 10’s and 12’s. If you are limited to these sizes, please don’t say to a bride, "I don’t think that any of these samples will fit you. Perhaps you should just hold up the dresses in front of this mirror instead of taking up the fitting room." grrr! 2. They keep their customers in a computer database (for free) so that at the end of the visit I had a printout to take home that included the manufacturer and actual style number of each dress that I liked, as well as the current price and the sample size that I tried on. When I went back in, they could instantly pull out my favorites and have them waiting in the fitting room while I browsed through the racks of new dresses (As a side note, they had lots of new dresses coming in, so their variety was great. They had tons of the simple, un-lacy gowns that I wanted, as well as many ornate gowns for people with different taste.) 3. They *encouraged* me to take pictures of the gowns on the first visit, which was great since my mom, sisters, BM’s, etc are all out of town and I desperately wanted their opinions. 4. They let me browse alone for as long as I wanted but kept a sales person nearby to check in on me and put the gowns I liked into the fitting room. Then, after I had tried on several dresses, the sales person noted what I liked/hated about each one and brought me some dresses with/without those features that I didn’t pull off the rack myself. My dream dress ended up being one of these dresses that I would never have tried on myself. 5. The sales person was enthusiastic but more honest than some others – she didn’t gush over dresses that I know made me look like a bloated Disney character. She even told me that one of the more expensive dresses didn’t accentuate my waist as well as one of the cheaper dresses. 6. Privacy! Nothing is more embarrassing than parading around a busy shop in a dress that isn’t zipped because the sample is hopelessly too small. I don’t think that most brides enjoy a shopping experience that reminds them of wearing a hospital gown. Try to have your fitting rooms and mirrors away from the chaos of the rest of the store, not in the middle of it. As I said, I liked this store so much that I am going to pay $150 more for the dress (although the sales person quietly advised me to wait a few weeks because she thinks they might have a "sale" in the near future). If you keep the bride in mind, and not just the $$$, you will have loyal customers. Believe me, every bride knows someone else who is getting married, and word-of-mouth is one of the best types of advertising! Good luck! Nicole (to Troy, 6-4-2000) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience.
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference. -Thanks in advance, Ev B. and JK
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-A tidy and clean shop. No dresses falling off hangers, dirty wrinkled dresses, etc… -Very good service. Treat every bride like she is the only bride in the world. My bridal shop was like this, and I felt so special. -Good selection and prices -All types of wedding accessories (shoes, gloves, memory books, cake cutting sets, champagne glasses, personalized gifts, unity candles, etc…) Hope this helps! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference. -Thanks in advance, Ev B. and JK
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store
service, service, service. I have dealt with vendors that were unkind, and I took my business elsewhere. I am a bride-to-be AND a wedding vendor. as a bride-to-be, I want to feel special to my vendors….which is very kewl, because as a vendor, it has been part of my goal to treat every bride as if they are a member of my family. I want to do everything in my power to make her day more special. it’s a happy day, and a happy event. it’s a blessing to have vendors who will work WITH you! if your bridal store carried this attitude, I would buy from you even if it meant your prices were a little higher than the one down the street. good luck to you! Ruth (and Phillip) October 2, 1999 Panama City, FL
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Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience.
IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". I’m a very "know it when I see it" kind of shopper, and so far I’m NOT seeing it! Dresses were the worst, I think. So many of them have so much STUFF, and these seem to be the ones that the sales people push the most, because they are often more expensive (they can charge extra for all the "hand beading"). Then again, this may be a function of location. I live and am wedding planning in Pittsburgh, where big hair and acid-washed denim are still considered cool. *shudder* One more thing. Don’t look down your nose at someone who is planning a wedding in a less-than-traditional manner. Don’t ever say "You HAVE TO" or "You CAN’T". Say "That’s an interesting/unique/unusual idea, let me help you realize that dream, and then I will part you with your money". I think I speak for a lot of people on this ng when I say that we are often willing to pay extra for the pleasure of dealing with someone who is accomidating, and people who are rude and snotty can be rude and snotty to someone else. $.02, Abby
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it".
What she said! Hint to the future bridal shop owner: Don’t limit your reading material to _Modern Bride_ and similar magazines. Don’t even stop at _Martha Stewart Weddings_ (although that should definitely be on your reading list). Read the regular _Martha Stewart Living_, _Victoria_, and other major lifestyle magazines to see what women believe is "classy" and "stylish" when they plan the rest of their lifestyle. Consider stocking candles, guest books, etc. that aren’t from wedding suppliers. Browse some upscale, relatively hip card-and-gift stores and look at the lines they carry. You’ll see some very "romantic" stationery and other items that aren’t stark white with ruffles and pearls. Read your local newspaper and city lifestyle magazines — you don’t need to stock every "trendy" look, but you should become aware of where there are niches waiting to be filled in your locale. If the big home look is pale, buttery colors and loosely arranged off-white flowers, you can bet that there are couples with $$$ who want that look for their weddings. Wende
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Oh, I definitely agree to this! I feel like everything I see is straight from the 80s!! I wish I could see a larger variety and not be stuck seeing the same thing in every shop. I’m not one for foo-foo stuff, so all the frills and beads make me gag. Just my taste, I know, but I wish there was more out there for people with the "less is more" kind of taste. Hope this helps. :-) Stefani and Jason, 10/2/99 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". I’m a very "know it when I see it" kind of shopper, and so far I’m NOT seeing it! Dresses were the worst, I think. So many of them have so much STUFF, and these seem to be the ones that the sales people push the most, because they are often more expensive (they can charge extra for all the "hand beading"). Then again, this may be a function of location. I live and am wedding planning in Pittsburgh, where big hair and acid-washed denim are still considered cool. *shudder* One more thing. Don’t look down your nose at someone who is planning a wedding in a less-than-traditional manner. Don’t ever say "You HAVE TO" or "You CAN’T". Say "That’s an interesting/unique/unusual idea, let me help you realize that dream, and then I will part you with your money". I think I speak for a lot of people on this ng when I say that we are often willing to pay extra for the pleasure of dealing with someone who is accomidating, and people who are rude and snotty can be rude and snotty to someone else. $.02, Abby
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I am a brides maid in my friend’s wedding this may and she took me so we could order both of our dresses. The second we walked through the door, the owner of the shop greeted us. We told her why we were there… my mom, my beau, Jen, and I… for me to try on a dress, get fitted, etc. All of my stuff was done within the first 20 minutes we were there. Then Jen tried her dress on, mentioned she had found the dress for $100+ cheaper somewhere else, but that she wanted to order her dress from the same place that the brides maids were getting their dresses from, and the owner said ok, and gave her the same price as the other store. Then, even though I am not engaged yet, the owner was talking to me about the kind of dress I wanted… I showed her a picture from a magazine and she quoted me $400 for something I thought would be much more expensive. She was very nice, had many suggestions, but wasn’t pushy. -Connie
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exactly! service is the most important thing! I would also pay a little bit more if the shop/vendor i’m dealing with gives me extraordinary service. Just as long as I dont get pressure sales, I’m happy. Like when I got my dress, the woman in the shop, gave me a free garter, free veil ( the one i picked out, not some tacky in the clearance rack thing) and free crinoline rental. She didnt have to do that but she did, so I walked out of there on cloud 9. She also didnt pressure me the first day I went there, she gave me time to think it through and on my 3rd visit that’s when i decided on the dress. Good Luck with the new shop Grace(marrying Alex 09/18/99) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store service, service, service. I have dealt with vendors that were unkind, and I took my business elsewhere. I am a bride-to-be AND a wedding vendor. as a bride-to-be, I want to feel special to my vendors….which is very kewl, because as a vendor, it has been part of my goal to treat every bride as if they are a member of my family. I want to do everything in my power to make her day more special. it’s a happy day, and a happy event. it’s a blessing to have vendors who will work WITH you! if your bridal store carried this attitude, I would buy from you even if it meant your prices were a little higher than the one down the street. good luck to you! Ruth (and Phillip) October 2, 1999 Panama City, FL
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I sure second the idea of a "variety" of dresses…not every bride wants the "princess" look. Wide selection of styles, prices..and a few sizes! I’m sorry, I’m a size 12 and I just can’t get an idea of what I’ll really look like half way in a size 6! If you have accessories, have them reasonably priced! I can’t tell you how many things I saw in bridal salons 3, 4, 5 times the price I saw in invitation catalogs. Also, I saw a pair of earrings I liked…$25…saw the exact same pair, same brand, on the same card…$3 at a mall store! Have helpful employees but let them know when to back off! No hovering…I’m not going to steal the dress off the rack and run out of the store with it. Also, when someone says they want a plain, classic look, no beads, sequins…believe her…do not say "No you don’t!" and start pulling out pou-pou dresses! Maybe figure out something "different" to sell??? I don’t know how to explain what I mean by this…but to me…every shop seemed the same after a while…not every bride wants to look like a carbon copy of every other. Don’t know if this helps or not…but…just had to ramble… Lynn & Arvid – 13 days!
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience.
Good lighting!! i can’t say enough about how important i think good lighting is, and how seemingly LITTLE attention is paid to it in shops! I agree with the other posts, service is definitly the most important part, treating every bride (and groom) who comes through the door as if their wedding is the most important one. BUT – I think that good lighting can make a huge difference selling a dress. SO many stores use hideous florescent lighting – i know it lasts a really long time – but it makes you look terrible, your skin looks bad, your makeup suddenly looks sort of garish – you can get really good full spectrum lights now that last a very long time. I’ve never understood why clothing stores insist on using the worst possible lighting – in a way, stores (especially bridal stores) are trying to sell dreams – and my dream is not to look greenish and splotchy . Can you tell this is one of my hugest pet peeves about the retail environment?? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it".
Yes. I hate white ruffly lacy things. I hate cheap gold (or silver) plastic. Why I would suddenly start paying marked up bridal prices for things that I wouldn’t have near me any other time? Other things I’d suggest: Either stock or keep notes on sources for things in unusual sizes- I’m thinking specifically things like undergarments to go with the dresses. (Once you get above a C cup, things get much harder to find ime.) Possibly even just trying to make arrangements with other independent shops in the area, to have a small display, if you don’t want to stock the items yourself. (You could do this with shoes, as well, if you don’t want to carry them yourself.) Also, maybe put together a scrapbook of different "looks" people can have for things? (I’m thinking specifically hairstyles and veils here. Include non-veil things, like flowers. Sure, they may not end up buying a veil as a result, but I’d be more inclined to pay more for a dress from a store that was helpful than pay less to get it from a big discount place.) Try to organize it by dress style, so if you have someone in saying "I like the dress, but I don’t know what I’d do with my hair" you can whip out the book and turn to the pages and let the bride look through it. Might make the difference between a sale or not. Have comfortable places for people to sit, and also put the dressing rooms somewhere where the people trying on dresses don’t feel like they’re on show to everyone when they come out to show the dress to their companions. (I *hate* feeling exposed when I’m trying on clothes, so make sure your dressing rooms are nice and solid feeling, too. In terms of dresses- make sure you know how different designers tend to fit. (from my pov, again, it makes shopping much less frustrating if someone can tell me that designer X tends to cut for smaller chests.) Keep a file of people in the area who do alterations, and also seamstresses who will do custom dresses. (If someone decides to have their dress made, you’re going to lose that dress sale anyway- but if you’re helpful and can recommend someone good, you may get accessory sales from them.) I agree with the otehr thing about telling people how to store their dress. (I’d go so far as to say it would be nice if you gave out storage materials, or have them for sale for what is basically cost, depending what you can afford.) I don’t know if it’s normally done (haven’t been wedding dress shopping for myself yet, and I don’t remember from when I was with someone else) but maybe have some different style bouquets made up in silks so people can, if they want, get an idea of the whole look? -Kris
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". Yes. I hate white ruffly lacy things. I hate cheap gold (or silver) plastic. Why I would suddenly start paying marked up bridal prices for things that I wouldn’t have near me any other time?
But don’t forget that there are people who like a lot of that stuff. I, for one, love white ruffly lacy things. I agree that plastic gold and silver stuff just looks cheap and won’t touch it either. Other things I’d suggest: Either stock or keep notes on sources for things in unusual sizes- I’m thinking specifically things like undergarments to go with the dresses. (Once you get above a C cup, things get much harder to find ime.) Possibly even just trying to make arrangements with other independent shops in the area, to have a small display, if you don’t want to stock the items yourself. (You could do this with shoes, as well, if you don’t want to carry them yourself.)
This makes me remember my dress shopping experience – Have a carpeted floor in your dressing area. Make sure the carpet is clean! And it is a sign of a good shop when they make you take your shoes off at the door. But provide a neat and clean and large enough place for people to place their shoes. In some places, I was reluctant to take off my shoes because they looked like they would get trampled on. The clean carpet in the shop made me feel more at home and comfortable. Also, maybe put together a scrapbook of different "looks" people can have for things? (I’m thinking specifically hairstyles and veils here. Include non-veil things, like flowers. Sure, they may not end up buying a veil as a result, but I’d be more inclined to pay more for a dress from a store that was helpful than pay less to get it from a big discount place.) Try to organize it by dress style, so if you have someone in saying "I like the dress, but I don’t know what I’d do with my hair" you can whip out the book and turn to the pages and let the bride look through it. Might make the difference between a sale or not.
This is a wonderful idea. Maybe even just have a catalogue that features the dresses you sell as a starting point. I was thrilled to take home a catalogue at a place where I could say, "I tried on that dress! It looked as good on me as it does on her!" Have comfortable places for people to sit, and also put the dressing rooms somewhere where the people trying on dresses don’t feel like they’re on show to everyone when they come out to show the dress to their companions. (I *hate* feeling exposed when I’m trying on clothes, so make sure your dressing rooms are nice and solid feeling, too.
And more importantly – have the dressing room BIG enough! Ack! Try having two "Cinderella" dresses and a person trying one on in a dressing room the size of a single shower! Nasty! I was all hot and sweaty after trying on one dress. Please, please, please, have air conditioning and large dressing rooms! (I was trying on dresses in mid July – 32 degrees C). It is a very hot experience to try on any more than one dress in a shop. I’d say at LEAST 6 by 8 feet. And if you don’t want to see dresses lying on the floor, be sure to put up LOTS of hooks in the dressing room. Maybe have a quilt rack in the room too, so that when the lady takes off the dress, she can drape it over the quilt rack rather than having it fall to the floor. Alternatively, you could do what one store did, the saleslady went in with me to help me into and out of the dress. She hung it up immediately. I did feel rather uncomfortable having a stranger in there though, so I don’t think it’s the best option. I don’t know if it’s normally done (haven’t been wedding dress shopping for myself yet, and I don’t remember from when I was with someone else) but maybe have some different style bouquets made up in silks so people can, if they want, get an idea of the whole look?
This is a nice idea. The friend I was with insisted I hold the little silk bouquet they had at one shop. I felt silly though, because it was NOTHING like the bouquet I would ever touch. Speaking of ideas of the whole look, I think it goes without saying that you should have mirrors set up so the one wearing the dress can see the whole thing. I also liked having a raised dias to stand on. Make it small enough so that when a short person stands on it, the dress will fall around it so she can see how it will hang when it actually fits her. I did not have this problem, as I am tall enough to fit these dresses but my much shorter friend noticed it. Helen (to Greg) August 5, 2000
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I hate bridal shops that order dresses in a size too big so they can get you with expensive alterations. Let brides see the manufacturer’s sizing chart so they know they’re getting the closest match to their size.
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference.
many people suggested variety, but remember that variety is not only in style, but SIZE too. don’t stock just your run- of-the-mill size 10’s. keep in mind that while the "average" female may be a size 12, that translates to a 16 or an 18 in bridal sizes. on top of that, stock a few dresses for the plus-size bride and bridesmaid too. there’s nothing worse than trying on dresses that come nowhere near close to fitting and trying to figure out how it would look if it DID fit. you can always pin the dress back to emulate the alteration, but you can’t let it out on the shop floor. something else to consider… when i was trying on dresses it was hard to see what the train would look like bustled. you might want to stock some of your samples with the bustling already in so we could see how the train REALLY lies on the skirt without someone holding it up and saying "well it’ll kind of do this and that and this will go here, sort of." jen (& jeff) 9/19/99 * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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A minimum of snobbishness is a must, in my book. I can’t even express to you what rudeness I encountered at some places simply because I’m not a debutante and I’m paying for my wedding myself, instead of my parents paying for the whole thing. I bought a beautiful wedding dress for only $400, but many of the store clerks I talked to before I found the wonderful store where I finally bought my dress made me feel like I was just trash if my dress didn’t cost at least $1,000. I don’t think brides-on-a-budget should have to feel ashamed of telling bridal store clerks that they are on a tight budget and can’t spend thousands on a dress. One clerk, when she found out what my budget was for a dress, actually laughed and turned and walked off without another word. Jeez… ~Amy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference. -Thanks in advance, Ev B. and JK
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I think the first thing the majority of newly engaged brides to be, is go look for a dress. Do some research in your area and recommend good photographers, tux rental shops, decorators, halls, caterers, DJ’s bands, etc. Keep some of their business cards on hand. I think this helps all brides to get a good recommendation. Heather (to Kurt) 9-4-99
: My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some : help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their : friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike : about there shopping experience. : : So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please : e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of : difference. : : -Thanks in advance, : Ev B. and JK : :
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". Yes. I hate white ruffly lacy things. I hate cheap gold (or silver) plastic. Why I would suddenly start paying marked up bridal prices for things that I wouldn’t have near me any other time? But don’t forget that there are people who like a lot of that stuff. I, for one, love white ruffly lacy things. I agree that plastic gold and silver stuff just looks cheap and won’t touch it either.
Oh, I’m not saying not to have it. Just that there shouldn’t be white ruffly stuff exclusively. (And even with white ruffly stuff, get quality- If I can tell that something is blatently just hot glued onto something normal, like some unity candles and similar things i’ve seen, I will, more than likely, just make my next stop the craft store, where I can buy white ruffles and lace and a hot glue gun, and make the same thing, quite possibly better looking because I’d take more care in the construction, for much much less.) Also, I’d suggest grouping things approximately by style, so that I can see that there *is* stuff other than white ruffles at a glance- If I have to dig through things to find the plain stuff, I’ll probably just assume there *isn’t* any, and stop looking. Have comfortable places for people to sit, and also put the dressing rooms somewhere where the people trying on dresses don’t feel like they’re on show to everyone when they come out to show the dress to their companions. (I *hate* feeling exposed when I’m trying on clothes, so make sure your dressing rooms are nice and solid feeling, too. And more importantly – have the dressing room BIG enough! Ack! Try
I think a key is to make sure *everything* is big enough. Most wedding gowns are not small- it is *not* going to show them off to best advantage to make people look at them in a cramped area. (I mean, how are you supposed to see how beautiful the cathedral length train is if there’s no room for it to be spread out?) rack rather than having it fall to the floor. Alternatively, you could do what one store did, the saleslady went in with me to help me into and out of the dress. She hung it up immediately. I did feel rather uncomfortable having a stranger in there though, so I don’t think it’s the best option.
A solution to this would be sort of "double room" dressing rooms. I’m not sure exactly how you’d work it out, but something so that people can be in private when they’re stripped down to nothing, but still be able to come out for help in doing up the dress and be able to hand things out and that sort of thing. (Some dressing rooms in the UK are styled so that there are smaller individual rooms off of a larger communal room, which is still shielded from the rest of the store with a door/curtain. The individual rooms then just have curtains, but since access to the communal room is restricted anyway, there’s not so much worry about the curtain not quite staying put. If you did it like that, the staff could just wait in the communal area with all the dresses save the one that’s actually being tried on.) Something else which has occured to me is, if you’re going to have flower girl dresses and things like that which will encourage young children to be brought in, make sure there’s some way of keeping them from pestering your other customers. I don’t really like young children, particularly when I don’t know them, and they’re running around screaming and being pests. I can’t imagine that they’d *help* the experience at all if I was already stressed about wedding things. (And I imagine that goes for brides who do like children as well.) -Kris
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To the original poster, you might spend some time using DejaNews. Search the wedding groups for "dress shopping" "selection" "sizing" and, of course, "rant".
Ooooh…Don’t forget to do a search on "David’s". You’ll find a lot of good "how not to run a bridal shop" stories there! (Yes yes…I know there are people who liked the staff at David’s as well…but the posts seem to run about 5 to 1 against. The good stories serve to illustrate the way things ought to be anyway). — Steve
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If you have accessories, have them reasonably priced! I can’t tell you how many things I saw in bridal salons 3, 4, 5 times the price I saw in invitation catalogs. Also, I saw a pair of earrings I liked…$25…saw the exact same pair, same brand, on the same card…$3 at a mall store!
Yup. Planning a wedding doesn’t make people turn stupid. (Well, not most of the time. I respect the need to make a profit, but you shouldn’t do it by being unfair. Have helpful employees but let them know when to back off! No hovering…I’m not going to steal the dress off the rack and run out of the store with it. Also, when someone says they want a plain, classic look, no beads, sequins…believe her…do not say "No you don’t!" and start pulling out pou-pou dresses!
I can understand why a salon might want to have someone on staff helping with handling the dresses- it is an investment and they can be awkward. I think it is important that the staff do know when to back off in a less physical sense, though. (Some people might like *some* recommendations and assistance, but if it’s clear that the customer just wants to look, the staff should keep quiet and just assist with looking.) Maybe have an area of the store where a couple of dresses can be hung for customers to look at without assistance. (So the staff can just get the dresses out, and hang them to be looked at, then retreat.) Maybe figure out something "different" to sell??? I don’t know how to explain what I mean by this…but to me…every shop seemed the same after a while…not every bride wants to look like a carbon copy of every other.
I’d suggest trying for a different "look" as well, in the interior of the store itself. Something neutral (but not *white*- gotta have some colour and airy, but not overly feminine. You’ll have enough puffy lace and things in the store with the wedding dresses. You don’t need puffy lace curtains and pink carpets and pink floral wall paper as well. (In fact, personally, such things would interfere with me looking at the dresses, if I didn’t just run away screaming at first glance. The more cramped the area is, the less plesant to shop in it.) Also, I think the suggestions about the lighting are good- if it’s more cost effective, you could have part flourescent, part (where people will be looking at dresses and trying them on, instead of accessories and things) full spectrum. Remember, as well, that you need to be careful with the dresses and sun, as it can fade or change the colours. (I’d suggest keeping swatches of the actual fabric colours someplace where they won’t be handled or in the light a lot, so you can show people the true colour of the fabric. Samples sometimes subtly alter shade, so something that seems a very pale ivory is really a stark white, and the bride doesn’t find out until her dress arrives, and on that bride, stark white may well look horrible. -Kris
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[snip] Dresses were the worst, I think. So many of them have so much STUFF, and these seem to be the ones that the sales people push the most, because they are often more expensive (they can charge extra for all the "hand beading").
[snip] I hear you… The reason why I didn’t like many dresses I saw when I went shopping is because I wanted a simpler gown, no beading, no sequins, etc. I didn’t have much luck finding one that didn’t give me a heart attack with the price tag! But then, I also didn’t want to spend that much on a dress I’d only wear one day. I would’ve liked to see more variety as well–REAL variety, as you said. Simpler gowns for people like me (or second-time brides), and more elaborate ones for those with more elaborate tastes. That, and friendly service, people who don’t push you to buy more than you need or hover over you like a vulture. Discreet salespeople who know when to come over and help and know when to back off and let the bride decide. An honesty in terms of given estimates, returns, etc. Ariane
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I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it".
[Abigail, thanks for the great description!] To the original poster, you might spend some time using DejaNews. Search the wedding groups for "dress shopping" "selection" "sizing" and, of course, "rant". Aside from providing excellent customer service to everyone, regardless of your impression as a bride walks through the door, there are several "issues" that seem to come up with the evil bridal shops (EBS). EBS cut tags from their dresses to hide the manufacturer and style number so that the consumer can’t price shop. If you don’t know what you are doing, this is illegal. If you know what you are doing (how to replace a tag to meet federal regulations), this is still a bad indicator to many brides. To me, this implies you can’t compete on pricing and service without adding deception to your marketing skills. You should know your competition. Today, it isn’t just Snooty Salon (Serving Hometown Since 1942). DBS and other online retailers are ready to serve your local customer base at a discount, so consider whether you want to sell at MSRP without considering a discount for your customers. When it comes down to it, and someone feels passionately that this is Her Dress, you know that a sale will be made. If you know she is going to buy this particular dress at the best price, you’ll need to decide if it’s going to be to you at less than full retail or to someone across the country at their standard discount. Would you rather have a $200 profit and local word of mouth or do you want to hold out for the $400 profit, even if it means losing the order? Please do read the rants in the Dejanews archives about the insensative comments assistants can make, particularly to women who will not be able to try on a sample size. You might consider investing your money in buying dresses to use as samples in larger sizes. Reading the descriptions of awful salespeople who insist a woman can tell how the dress will look on her just by holding it in front of her is painful. A good salon will not practice unintentional cruelty and will have something to offer a larger person — or to those who fall on the other side of the scale in size 0. Don’t suggest they check out communion dresses! If you can’t invest the money up front, consider offering to buy back *select* dresses in "non-sample" sizes that you can then use as samples. You don’t have to buy one of everything — but if there is a style that is particularly flattering to a petite or woman’s size, and you know the woman will likely consign her dress, get it for your future customers. For that matter, borrow a tactic from my car dealership. They keep a scrapbook of "happy customers" with photos of people with their cars on the day they pick it up. (Yeah, sappy, I know.) *BUT* think what a great resource this would be if you could get photographs of the women in their dresses after the alterations and/or on their wedding day. Future customers would be able to see how the dress looks on various body types "in real life" and get an idea for different details that flatter different features. I have no idea how much markup there is on the typical veil, but consider offering a section of materials (and/or a designer/crafter) who can do custom work. (See Abilgal’s paragraph quoted above) See other’s comments about white, beaded, and satiny "accessories". Instead of presenting feather pens as the right thing to use on the guest table, have some regular "cool" pens as an alternative that isn’t fluffy. Skip those ugly cheap screen printed "Bride/Groom" toasting glasses, and stock real cystal (even if you buy it off the clearance table at the department store). If you can stock some nice archival quality photo albums for those who won’t be buying a $1500+ package from a photographer, I think these would do well. If you are up to it and have a connection, get an antique dealer to go in with you for a vintage corner. (Not consignment type dresses that are 3 years old, but vintage — from the 50s or earlier) Stock some funky vintage jewelry — it’s okay if you don’t have seven identical copies of each piece — try to offer an alternative to those who don’t want pearls and Swarovski crystal. Include information on what each customer should do with her dress afterwards for safekeeping. Point out the shoulder straps and other features that should be used to hang the dress safely. If the customer is buying serveral months prior to the wedding, offer advice on storing the dress to avoid yellowing/damage. Set up a database and send an anniversary card (to build word of mouth). Let the mothers take photographs of their daughters. Realize that this is A Very Special Time for some of them, and mom might have reserved a page in the baby book 25 years ago for just this day. Don’t pressure the customer. If the price is 10% off if she buys today, you can offer 10% off next week after she’s had time to look at the budget and be sure. Do not charge a fee for keeping a bride’s "preferences" on file. Don’t sell your customers’ names to the tux shop and the DJ down the street. Be fair to the customer and don’t tack on ‘rush’ charges when they are not required. Be proactive in letting the customer know the status of her dress. Call to let her know you placed the order and it should be in ___. Call the manufacturer a week before ___ if the dress hasn’t arrived so that you’ll be ready to answer questions. Call the bride the day her dress gets in. (See the "my dress is HERE" threads in dejanews to confirm how happy this makes people.) If the dress arrives well ahead of schedule this makes *you* look good. If the dress is late for any reason, do what is fair to make concessions to the bride. Even if it’s only taking $25 off for the stress and inconvenience. Even if it NOT your fault. Once the dress is in the shop, do NOT let anyone else try on the dress or use it as a sample just because "I have a size 12 that just came in today." This should be obvious, but it happens. Have a comfortable place for friends and family to sit. — Josie
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I recently decided to purchase my gown from the store where I tried it on, even though I could save $150 by purchasing it elsewhere. This is true for several reasons: 1. The large range of sample sizes. In street clothes, I wear a 12 (US) but I struggled to fit into wedding gowns size 16+. This shop carried samples from size 6 to size 20, instead of all 10’s and 12’s. If you are limited to these sizes, please don’t say to a bride, "I don’t think that any of these samples will fit you. Perhaps you should just hold up the dresses in front of this mirror instead of taking up the fitting room." grrr! 2. They keep their customers in a computer database (for free) so that at the end of the visit I had a printout to take home that included the manufacturer and actual style number of each dress that I liked, as well as the current price and the sample size that I tried on. When I went back in, they could instantly pull out my favorites and have them waiting in the fitting room while I browsed through the racks of new dresses (As a side note, they had lots of new dresses coming in, so their variety was great. They had tons of the simple, un-lacy gowns that I wanted, as well as many ornate gowns for people with different taste.) 3. They *encouraged* me to take pictures of the gowns on the first visit, which was great since my mom, sisters, BM’s, etc are all out of town and I desperately wanted their opinions. 4. They let me browse alone for as long as I wanted but kept a sales person nearby to check in on me and put the gowns I liked into the fitting room. Then, after I had tried on several dresses, the sales person noted what I liked/hated about each one and brought me some dresses with/without those features that I didn’t pull off the rack myself. My dream dress ended up being one of these dresses that I would never have tried on myself. 5. The sales person was enthusiastic but more honest than some others – she didn’t gush over dresses that I know made me look like a bloated Disney character. She even told me that one of the more expensive dresses didn’t accentuate my waist as well as one of the cheaper dresses. 6. Privacy! Nothing is more embarrassing than parading around a busy shop in a dress that isn’t zipped because the sample is hopelessly too small. I don’t think that most brides enjoy a shopping experience that reminds them of wearing a hospital gown. Try to have your fitting rooms and mirrors away from the chaos of the rest of the store, not in the middle of it. As I said, I liked this store so much that I am going to pay $150 more for the dress (although the sales person quietly advised me to wait a few weeks because she thinks they might have a "sale" in the near future). If you keep the bride in mind, and not just the $$$, you will have loyal customers. Believe me, every bride knows someone else who is getting married, and word-of-mouth is one of the best types of advertising! Good luck! Nicole (to Troy, 6-4-2000) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience.
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference. -Thanks in advance, Ev B. and JK
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-A tidy and clean shop. No dresses falling off hangers, dirty wrinkled dresses, etc… -Very good service. Treat every bride like she is the only bride in the world. My bridal shop was like this, and I felt so special. -Good selection and prices -All types of wedding accessories (shoes, gloves, memory books, cake cutting sets, champagne glasses, personalized gifts, unity candles, etc…) Hope this helps! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. So any new brides or brides to be, or maids of honor, or anyone else, please e-mail us or post to this group. Your help and ideas will make a world of difference. -Thanks in advance, Ev B. and JK
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store
service, service, service. I have dealt with vendors that were unkind, and I took my business elsewhere. I am a bride-to-be AND a wedding vendor. as a bride-to-be, I want to feel special to my vendors….which is very kewl, because as a vendor, it has been part of my goal to treat every bride as if they are a member of my family. I want to do everything in my power to make her day more special. it’s a happy day, and a happy event. it’s a blessing to have vendors who will work WITH you! if your bridal store carried this attitude, I would buy from you even if it meant your prices were a little higher than the one down the street. good luck to you! Ruth (and Phillip) October 2, 1999 Panama City, FL
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Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience.
IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". I’m a very "know it when I see it" kind of shopper, and so far I’m NOT seeing it! Dresses were the worst, I think. So many of them have so much STUFF, and these seem to be the ones that the sales people push the most, because they are often more expensive (they can charge extra for all the "hand beading"). Then again, this may be a function of location. I live and am wedding planning in Pittsburgh, where big hair and acid-washed denim are still considered cool. *shudder* One more thing. Don’t look down your nose at someone who is planning a wedding in a less-than-traditional manner. Don’t ever say "You HAVE TO" or "You CAN’T". Say "That’s an interesting/unique/unusual idea, let me help you realize that dream, and then I will part you with your money". I think I speak for a lot of people on this ng when I say that we are often willing to pay extra for the pleasure of dealing with someone who is accomidating, and people who are rude and snotty can be rude and snotty to someone else. $.02, Abby
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it".
What she said! Hint to the future bridal shop owner: Don’t limit your reading material to _Modern Bride_ and similar magazines. Don’t even stop at _Martha Stewart Weddings_ (although that should definitely be on your reading list). Read the regular _Martha Stewart Living_, _Victoria_, and other major lifestyle magazines to see what women believe is "classy" and "stylish" when they plan the rest of their lifestyle. Consider stocking candles, guest books, etc. that aren’t from wedding suppliers. Browse some upscale, relatively hip card-and-gift stores and look at the lines they carry. You’ll see some very "romantic" stationery and other items that aren’t stark white with ruffles and pearls. Read your local newspaper and city lifestyle magazines — you don’t need to stock every "trendy" look, but you should become aware of where there are niches waiting to be filled in your locale. If the big home look is pale, buttery colors and loosely arranged off-white flowers, you can bet that there are couples with $$$ who want that look for their weddings. Wende
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Oh, I definitely agree to this! I feel like everything I see is straight from the 80s!! I wish I could see a larger variety and not be stuck seeing the same thing in every shop. I’m not one for foo-foo stuff, so all the frills and beads make me gag. Just my taste, I know, but I wish there was more out there for people with the "less is more" kind of taste. Hope this helps. :-) Stefani and Jason, 10/2/99 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it". I’m a very "know it when I see it" kind of shopper, and so far I’m NOT seeing it! Dresses were the worst, I think. So many of them have so much STUFF, and these seem to be the ones that the sales people push the most, because they are often more expensive (they can charge extra for all the "hand beading"). Then again, this may be a function of location. I live and am wedding planning in Pittsburgh, where big hair and acid-washed denim are still considered cool. *shudder* One more thing. Don’t look down your nose at someone who is planning a wedding in a less-than-traditional manner. Don’t ever say "You HAVE TO" or "You CAN’T". Say "That’s an interesting/unique/unusual idea, let me help you realize that dream, and then I will part you with your money". I think I speak for a lot of people on this ng when I say that we are often willing to pay extra for the pleasure of dealing with someone who is accomidating, and people who are rude and snotty can be rude and snotty to someone else. $.02, Abby
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I am a brides maid in my friend’s wedding this may and she took me so we could order both of our dresses. The second we walked through the door, the owner of the shop greeted us. We told her why we were there… my mom, my beau, Jen, and I… for me to try on a dress, get fitted, etc. All of my stuff was done within the first 20 minutes we were there. Then Jen tried her dress on, mentioned she had found the dress for $100+ cheaper somewhere else, but that she wanted to order her dress from the same place that the brides maids were getting their dresses from, and the owner said ok, and gave her the same price as the other store. Then, even though I am not engaged yet, the owner was talking to me about the kind of dress I wanted… I showed her a picture from a magazine and she quoted me $400 for something I thought would be much more expensive. She was very nice, had many suggestions, but wasn’t pushy. -Connie
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exactly! service is the most important thing! I would also pay a little bit more if the shop/vendor i’m dealing with gives me extraordinary service. Just as long as I dont get pressure sales, I’m happy. Like when I got my dress, the woman in the shop, gave me a free garter, free veil ( the one i picked out, not some tacky in the clearance rack thing) and free crinoline rental. She didnt have to do that but she did, so I walked out of there on cloud 9. She also didnt pressure me the first day I went there, she gave me time to think it through and on my 3rd visit that’s when i decided on the dress. Good Luck with the new shop Grace(marrying Alex 09/18/99) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store service, service, service. I have dealt with vendors that were unkind, and I took my business elsewhere. I am a bride-to-be AND a wedding vendor. as a bride-to-be, I want to feel special to my vendors….which is very kewl, because as a vendor, it has been part of my goal to treat every bride as if they are a member of my family. I want to do everything in my power to make her day more special. it’s a happy day, and a happy event. it’s a blessing to have vendors who will work WITH you! if your bridal store carried this attitude, I would buy from you even if it meant your prices were a little higher than the one down the street. good luck to you! Ruth (and Phillip) October 2, 1999 Panama City, FL
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I sure second the idea of a "variety" of dresses…not every bride wants the "princess" look. Wide selection of styles, prices..and a few sizes! I’m sorry, I’m a size 12 and I just can’t get an idea of what I’ll really look like half way in a size 6! If you have accessories, have them reasonably priced! I can’t tell you how many things I saw in bridal salons 3, 4, 5 times the price I saw in invitation catalogs. Also, I saw a pair of earrings I liked…$25…saw the exact same pair, same brand, on the same card…$3 at a mall store! Have helpful employees but let them know when to back off! No hovering…I’m not going to steal the dress off the rack and run out of the store with it. Also, when someone says they want a plain, classic look, no beads, sequins…believe her…do not say "No you don’t!" and start pulling out pou-pou dresses! Maybe figure out something "different" to sell??? I don’t know how to explain what I mean by this…but to me…every shop seemed the same after a while…not every bride wants to look like a carbon copy of every other. Don’t know if this helps or not…but…just had to ramble… Lynn & Arvid – 13 days!
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My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience.
Good lighting!! i can’t say enough about how important i think good lighting is, and how seemingly LITTLE attention is paid to it in shops! I agree with the other posts, service is definitly the most important part, treating every bride (and groom) who comes through the door as if their wedding is the most important one. BUT – I think that good lighting can make a huge difference selling a dress. SO many stores use hideous florescent lighting – i know it lasts a really long time – but it makes you look terrible, your skin looks bad, your makeup suddenly looks sort of garish – you can get really good full spectrum lights now that last a very long time. I’ve never understood why clothing stores insist on using the worst possible lighting – in a way, stores (especially bridal stores) are trying to sell dreams – and my dream is not to look greenish and splotchy . Can you tell this is one of my hugest pet peeves about the retail environment?? Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.
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Excerpts from netnews.alt.wedding: 4-Aug-99 Looking for help by My mom and I want to open a wonderful new bridal store, but really need some help. We want to be able find out what brides, their families and their friends are really want to see in a new store, and what they really dislike about there shopping experience. IME, so much of what I see when I go shopping is very *typical*, like as though every bride is supposed to have the same taste. And most of it is tacky, IMO. Things like guests books, Unity candles, headpieces, almost everything! I want to see *real variety*, not just "This (insert wedding item here) has lace and pearls, this one has tulle and fake roses, and if you want to be daring, get the one with a gold plated heart stuck to it".
Yes. I hate white ruffly lacy things. I hate cheap gold (or silver) plastic. Why I would suddenly start paying marked up bridal prices for things that I wouldn’t have near me any other time? Other things I’d suggest: Either stock or keep notes on sources for things in unusual sizes- I’m thinking specifically things like undergarments to go with the dresses. (Once you get above a C cup, things get much harder to find ime.) Possibly even just trying to make arrangements with other independent shops in the area, to have a small display, if you don’t want to stock the items yourself. (You could do this with shoes, as well, if you don’t want to carry them yourself.) Also, maybe put together a scrapbook of different "looks" people can have for things? (I’m thinking specifically hairstyles and veils here. Include non-veil things, like flowers. Sure, they may not end up buying a veil as a result, but I’d be more inclined to pay more for a dress from a store that was helpful than pay less to get it from a big discount place.) Try to organize it by dress style, so if you have someone in saying "I like the dress, but I don’t know what I’d do with my hair" you can whip out the book and turn to the pages and let the bride look through it. Might make the difference between a sale or not. Have comfortable places for people to sit, and also put the dressing rooms somewhere where the people trying on dresses don’t feel like they’re on show to everyone when they come out to show the dress to their companions. (I *hate* feeling exposed when I’m trying on clothes, so make sure your dressing rooms are nice and solid feeling, too. In terms of dresses- make sure you know how different designers tend to fit. (from my pov, again, it makes shopping much less frustrating if someone can tell me that designer X tends to cut for smaller chests.) Keep a file of people in the area who do alterations, and also seamstresses who will do custom dresses. (If someone decides to have their dress made, you’re going to lose that dress sale anyway- but if you’re helpful and can recommend someone good, you may get accessory sales from them.) I agree with the otehr thing about telling people how to store their dress. (I’d go so far as to say it would be nice if you gave out storage materials, or have them for sale for what is basically cost, depending what you can afford.) I don’t know if it’s normally done (haven’t been wedding dress shopping for myself yet, and I don’t remember from when I was with someone else) but maybe have some different style bouquets made up in silks so people can, if they want, get an idea of the whole look? -Kris
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I’m looking for a Marketing / Manufactures Rep. I have a small Metal Stamping Job Shop in Sparks, NV. I have no marketing plan and no sales force. All my customers come from word of mouth. I personally am not a marketing person or a salesman. Any ideas would be helpful. Thank You, Steve Planka www.nevadametalworks.com MBMM *DIGEST VERSIONS* MEM Go to http://markethink.com/lists/ to subscribe
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Hi Steve: I visited your website and have a few suggestions that might help you market your services. Your current clients and prospects are your best resource for new business. I have a feeling you wouldn’t feel comfortable calling them up and asking for referrals, thats too much like sales, but there is another way to squeeze business from them without asking directly. It works like this, Fax them a one page coupon that when they fill it out and return it with the name and fax number of a prospect for your service, you’ll give them a discount on their next order. (They’ll bring in the original completed fax as their receipt). You then take the fax number of the new prospect and send them a coupon referencing the originators referral with the same offer. It looks like you get lots of information by fax so you have a resource for the numbers. A FOD Serivice can simultaneously send out the original without tying up your dedicated fax line and can store the numbers for future promotions. Fax on Demand services that provide these features cost as little at $40 a month (much less than a sales person). Let me know if you want more specific information This is both a marketing tool and your automated "Sales Person" but you don’t have to pay a commission and they won’t quit. Good Luck, Steve. Marilyn Geiger, President The Geiger Group Technology Solutions for Savvy Communicators www.thegeigergroup.com I’m looking for a Marketing / Manufactures Rep. I have a small Metal Stamping Job Shop in Sparks, NV. I have no marketing plan and no sales force. All my customers come from word of mouth. I personally am not a marketing person or a salesman. Any ideas would be helpful.
MBMM *DIGEST VERSIONS* MEM Go to http://markethink.com/lists/ to subscribe
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Categories: Living With Asthma | 
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Truthfully, I am fustrated, angry and confused. I don’t understand how I went from healthy with occasional colds and springtime sniffles to having a chronic disease. I hate air conditioning and do not want to spend my life in it. I also like sleeping with my cats. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sue