Question:

L-G stresses on holistic healing By a Staff Reporter, in Indraprasth The Pioneer Delhi Lieutenant Governor Vijai Kapoor has said that reviving the age-old heritage of holistic health care harmonious with nature would be the answer to various health problems facing the modern society. Mr Kapoor said recently inaugurating a fortnight-long free naturopathy, yoga and ayurveda camp being organised by Bapu Nature Cure Hospital and Yogashram, Gandhi Nidhi at Patparganj in East Delhi. Mr Kapoor also inaugurated a free charitable Ayurved and Homeopathy dispensary exclusively for the poor and needy people in the hospital premises. The camp is expected to benefit more than 2500 people and provide them with alternative and Indian system of medicine based on herbs, diet and yogic exercise which are very effective and heal the person with least danger of side effects. Bronchial asthma, sinusitis, rhinitis, anxiety neurosis, depression, insomnia, diabetes, obesity, hypertension, paralysis, osteo-arthritis, rheumatoids arthritis, spondylosis, gout, sciatica, ischaemic heart disease, hyperacidity, flatulence, dyspepsia, peptic ulcer, colitis, jaundice, cholesterol, gangrene, ophthalmic disorder, cancer, thyroid disorders, renal disorders, menstrual and gynecological problems, irritable bowel syndrome, eczema, psoriasis and skin diseases could be treated by these methods. Gandhian C A Menon, president of the Yogashram, recalled the vision of Mahatma Gandhi to take the holistic system of Naturopathy and Yoga to the people in the village and felt that sincere efforts of Naturopathy institutions with adequate and timely support from the Government would reach the system at all levels including the villages ensuring disease-free life, arresting the mounting cost of medical expenses. Read the complete news at: http://www.dailypioneer.com News Plus http://www.mantra.com/newsplus Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti Panchaang for 24 Jyeshtth 5104, Monday, June 23, 2003: Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Dakshinaya Nartana Ritau      Mithun Mase Krishna Pakshe Indu Vasara Yuktayam Ashvini Nakshatr Atiganda Yog      Vanij-Vishti Karan Dashami Yam Tithau Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate      o  Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.      o  If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read, considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.      o  Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are not necessarily those of the poster.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – L-G stresses on holistic healing By a Staff Reporter, in Indraprasth The Pioneer Delhi Lieutenant Governor Vijai Kapoor has said that reviving the age-old heritage of holistic health care harmonious with nature would be the answer to various health problems facing the modern society. Mr Kapoor said recently inaugurating a fortnight-long free naturopathy, yoga and ayurveda camp being organised by Bapu Nature Cure Hospital and Yogashram, Gandhi Nidhi at Patparganj in East Delhi. Mr Kapoor also inaugurated a free charitable Ayurved and Homeopathy dispensary exclusively for the poor and needy people in the hospital premises. The camp is expected to benefit more than 2500 people and provide them with alternative and Indian system of medicine based on herbs, diet and yogic exercise which are very effective and heal the person with least danger of side effects. Bronchial asthma, sinusitis, rhinitis, anxiety neurosis, depression, insomnia, diabetes, obesity, hypertension, paralysis, osteo-arthritis, rheumatoids arthritis, spondylosis, gout, sciatica, ischaemic heart disease, hyperacidity, flatulence, dyspepsia, peptic ulcer, colitis, jaundice, cholesterol, gangrene, ophthalmic disorder, cancer, thyroid disorders, renal disorders, menstrual and gynecological problems, irritable bowel syndrome, eczema, psoriasis and skin diseases could be treated by these methods. Gandhian C A Menon, president of the Yogashram, recalled the vision of Mahatma Gandhi to take the holistic system of Naturopathy and Yoga to the people in the village and felt that sincere efforts of Naturopathy institutions with adequate and timely support from the Government would reach the system at all levels including the villages ensuring disease-free life, arresting the mounting cost of medical expenses. Read the complete news at: http://www.dailypioneer.com News Plus http://www.mantra.com/newsplus Jai Maharaj http://www.mantra.com/jai Om Shanti Panchaang for 24 Jyeshtth 5104, Monday, June 23, 2003: Shubhanu Nama Samvatsare Dakshinaya Nartana Ritau      Mithun Mase Krishna Pakshe Indu Vasara Yuktayam Ashvini Nakshatr Atiganda Yog      Vanij-Vishti Karan Dashami Yam Tithau Hindu Holocaust Museum http://www.mantra.com/holocaust Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy http://www.hindu.org http://www.hindunet.org The truth about Islam and Muslims http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate      o  Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.      o  If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read, considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.      o  Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are not necessarily those of the poster.

  Dr. Jai…Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the FDA would be a booster for holistic medicine and herbals?? FAT CHANCE though?? Trebor M / — Worlds

Question:

Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge. I used ETOH to sleep….then became an alcoholic. Have been sober for many years now.

Response:

Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge.

<snip I’ve tried denial, denial, and more denial, as well as work, work, and more work, without any effect. I tried reading Burns "Feeling Good" but was already too depressed for it to help. I’ve never tried OTC or supplements. And I NEVER take any medication or supplement of any kind without my doctor’s knowledge/permission. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

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Hey, Lynda. Oh, yeah. I self medicated for years with alcohol. At least it seemed to make the pain go away for a time. Though of course when I sobered up, it was all still there. I’m an alocholic with just over 5 months sobriety on the clock. It’s taken me many years to get to this stage, let me tell you. But it feels so good being sober, being off the alcoholic treadmill. I don’t know how I managed to survive drinking the way I was. Now I self medicate with Zoloft, playing with the dosage and trying to get off it, then needing to go back on it. Funny how I’m so keen to get off a prescription drug when I was so laid back about throwing so much drink down my throat! BUt then logic isn’t something that you find in alcoholism or depression. Anyhow, gotta go. But wanted to say, too, that I find your posts informative.

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Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge.

Yeah, mostly MS contins. They rock’ed! Unfortunately they also lost effect quickly..

Response:

Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge.

I used street drugs to treat my depression for over twenty years. It worked. I never lost a job. Bought and paid for a house that way. It was after I quit that I ran into real troubles. I started using St. John’s wort without telling my shrink. That was after I went psychotic on SSRIs, and other med disasters. I only told him the truth after he could see how much better I was doing. My shrink knows I’m treating myself now (via supplements and herbs) but he doesn’t know every detail. He’s not interested. I used ETOH to sleep….then became an alcoholic. Have been sober for many years now.

Me too. Alcohol to treat iatrogenic insomnia. I was drinking five bottles of wine every night after dinner, and I still couldn’t sleep, towards the end. Lar

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Me too. Alcohol to treat iatrogenic insomnia. I was drinking five bottles of wine every night after dinner, and I still couldn’t sleep, towards the end. Lar

five bottles?!? Larry!!!!!

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Me too. Alcohol to treat iatrogenic insomnia. I was drinking five bottles of wine every night after dinner, and I still couldn’t sleep, towards the end. Lar five bottles?!? Larry!!!!!

And I still couldn’t sleep. My doctors did not believe I was insomnic like I described. At first, a couple of drinks did the trick. But over time, I needed more and more. I virtually can’t sleep on SSRIs. Larry

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My son’s pediatrician says to stay away from Primatine because it is essentailly adrenoline.  The prescription inhalers are safer and more asthma specific.  Go see a doctor….I think you would find that you will be in better control with prescription inhalers. Wendy Chadwick (an informed mom)

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   I use the Primatine inhaler pehaps a few times a week.  I use the pills    only when I feel sick or anticipate being exposed to allergins…    perhaps once every couple of months for a week or so… There’s the clue – if it’s a few times a week, your asthma is clearly not under control. And you’re likely to be suffering from some of the less obvious effects of asthma during those periods in between Primatine use. You’re probably not getting as high of a quality of sleep, you’re probably unconsciously avoiding some activities that trigger sypmtoms (such as exercise), etc. Going OTC with asthma is usually a form of denial. The fact that Primatine is OTC is a mystery to many of us. You’re likely to hear plenty on the subject. Good Luck, and get good medical care. You never know when some major trigger will hit you hard, and it’s best to be protected. — Mark Feblowitz,   GTE Laboratories Inc., 40 Sylvan Rd.  Waltham, MA 02254

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: Dont ask me why : you can buy Primatine over the counter and not Ventolin, which : is probably safer.  I wish I knew.   The FDA works in mysterious ways.  

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Sam…Primatine affects your body as a whole…most of the maintence (like intal and varicil) and reductive (like Prevental) affect only the lungs (supposedly). Because Primatine is part of the adenalin family, it can be addictive! I do use it in a pinch, i.e., my prescription has run out and i need a "fix" bad, but that is all.  So, joinning the chorus,  get thee to a MD!  Jeff

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Dear Sam, Well as you probably know you are likely about to be flooded with responses saying "get to a doctor!" – and really, why deprive yourself of the very effective meds an MD can give you? I gather that Primatine (ephedrine, isnt it?) is less effective and shorter acting than Proventil/Ventolin.  I also think (not sure) its supposed to have more potential side effects.  Dont ask me why you can buy Primatine over the counter and not Ventolin, which is probably safer.  I wish I knew.   Youre not the only one out there who has had these little, ..uh, lapses in judgement.  I tried to *stretch* my Proventil recently by using Primatine at a time when I was between insurance coverage. (My symptoms are mild, like yours)  Nothing bad happened, but then again, I wasnt having any kind of crisis.  I dont know if the Primatine could have handled it. I think its interesting to note that in Tim Brookes’ book "Catching My Breath," he talks about being at a point where he thought OTC meds like Primatine were actually working better for him than Ventolin – speculating that his lungs wanted a pure blast of ephedrine.  (I never found that to be the case.  The prescription broncho-dialators work MUCH better in my case). I also think you can feel pretty good about the fact that you have such a clear picture of your triggers, and the fact that youre doing so well with only such feeble help as Primatine – but who knows how much better you might feel with the best possible treatment for you.  Certainly, the peace of mind is worth alot. Take care of yourself, Sam Cheryl

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I’ve been lurking on this group for a bit now and it seems like most of the discussion is related to people who’s asthma is fairly acute.  From the sound of it mine (thankfully) is fairly mild (at least in recent years). My question is about the non-prescription drugs, namely Primatine, both pills and inhaler.  A little background on me… As long as I can remember I’ve always had asthma problems accompaning colds or flus when I had them.  Around age 13 my family got a couple of cats.  Over the next few years my asthma gradually got worse.  By high school it was pretty bad and it had become fairly clear that I must be allergic to the little buggers.  I stubbornly refused to let the cats go to another home and just suffered instead.  My doctor prescribed Theodur tablets and Ventolin inhaler and I would take these on a fairly regular basis.  These managed to almost control my asthma.  In retrospect, it probably wasn’t anywhere near as under control as it could have been with additional or more regular medication.  I was hospitilized twice during acute attacks and visited the emergency room 6 or 7 times in addition to that.  One of the hospitializations included a stay in the ICU.  At the time I had no conception of how serious that was.  (Hey, I was 17 or so…)  That was about 7 years ago… The next year I moved out to go to college and never went back.  No cats at school.  It was like a whole new world.  Without *living* with two cats it seemed like the symptoms essentially went away…  With a severe cold or flu I’d still have a little difficulty…  but nothing a couple of puffs on an inhaler couldn’t take care of quickly.  Aside from those times, and times when I couldn’t avoid being near cats or other things I’m highly sensitive to, I could almost forget I had asthma at all. After about two years of having no difficulty I just let the last of my prescription drugs run out and started buying Primatine off the shelf. Essentially since then I haven’t taken anything regularly.  I usually carry some Primatine (in both pill and mist form) with me.  If I start to feel a problem coming on I’ll start using them at the dosages suggested on the packages until it seems like the difficulty is gone. Sometimes a bit more than the suggested dosages if it seems worse than usual.  Also, if I know I’m going to visit someone who has a furry animal or some other irritant I’ll start taking the pills a while in advance until a bit after I leave the place so as to head off any problem. This seems to work decently well to control things.  Since I left home (and the cats) 7 years ago I’ve only had two or three occations when I have even thought about the possibility that I would need more than just the primatine to control it.   But looking at the box it clearly states that if you were *ever* hospitalized for asthma you shouldn’t be taking Primatine. I use the Primatine inhaler pehaps a few times a week.  I use the pills only when I feel sick or anticipate being exposed to allergins… perhaps once every couple of months for a week or so… Is what I’m doing OK?  Or are there problems with Primatine that I really *should* be avoiding it and using some prescription drug instead?? I’m just reminded about this because here in Pittsburgh the cold weather just set in and I’ve been having to take an occational puff of Primatine this week… (I know, I know…  Ask your doctor…  but I’ve been really bad… haven’t seen one in 3 or 4 years for athsma or any other reason…  I probably should do so just for a general checkup anyway…  but in the meantime…  anybody have an answer to my question?) Thanks a lot!!! — Sam

Response:

Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge. I used ETOH to sleep….then became an alcoholic. Have been sober for many years now. — LyndaNP

Used to mix codeine and ephedrine, like that made any sense. Felt pretty good though. jodelli

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Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge. I used ETOH to sleep….then became an alcoholic. Have been sober for many years now. — LyndaNP Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, nor the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. – Robert J. Ringer

Response:

Have any of you engaged in this to treat your condition? That includes OTC drugs as well as supplements without your doctor’s knowledge. I used ETOH to sleep….then became an alcoholic. Have been sober for many years now.

((((((((((((((((((lyndaNP))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) i’m glad to hear you got through it, i also struggled with booze for a while… (((((hugs))))) i know how hard it is. thanks so much for posting this, its exactly what i’ve been thinking about too… i self-medicate with booze to relax or try and blot out the depression, i’ve also used a bit of valium, which is prescribed to me, but sometimes i mixed it with the booze, knowing what i was doing and what doses were safe… but its not good to play with. i know loadsa other people who self medicate with "illegal" drugs too… all in all i think i learnt the hard way this week that its not a good idea… ((((((((((hugs))))))))) take care m — ~~~~~<:~~~~ iriXx www.iriXx.org "…faith is being sure of what we hope for,   and certain of what we cannot see"

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Question:

Interesting article at http://www.aafp.org/afp/971101ap/holland.html

You are aware that his is something we know about? Also consider this, conventional medicine at least makes an attempt to keep track of this.  Alternative medicine hides it. And exactly what is the point you are trying to make here?  Are you saying that we should avoid proven treatments for a disease that kills 5,500 people a year in the US alone? "Being responsible sometimes means pissing people off."    General Colin Powell

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The same old cynism. The medical establishment police strikes again. Say something positive for a change.

what’s your motivation here Mick you’ve just made another totally ludicrous post…Carole posted a report on pharmaceutical induced disorders and Allan posted something positive in reply…but you don’t see that do you? what are you actually in this group for? so far I have only seen you make posts attacking anyone who demands that alternative medications face the same tests as conventional ones…does the word "hypocrite" mean anything to you? this argument is what makes me most angry about the unscrupulous methods of the alt med vultures…I’ve lost two friends to perfectly curable conditions simply because they bought into the fear of medicine that is used by the alt med industry in lieu of any positive proof their products work anyone making such an argument should thoroughly examine their conscience…because deliberately frightening somebody away from taking something that will keep them alive is not tremendously far removed from murder in moral terms fact is…anything that has sufficient effect on the human body to cure a medical condition will also have side effects…these will range from the minimal to the fatal…anyone trying to pretend differently is a dangerous fraud established medicine accepts that it must therefore remain open to challenge every step of the way so that this danger can be minimised…any alternative treatment that accepts these conditions and show some value ceases to be alternative and is adopted aas mainstream so answer me this, Mick…if SmithKline Beecham were selling a product that gave random dosages and couldn’t be proven to have a definite positive effect…then they started denying it could possibly have any side effects…would you see them as villains?…damn right you would the alt med companies and the pharmaceutical giants are probably equally unscrupulous…most lines of business attract a number of ruthless sharks…the difference is that pharmaceuticals are regulated, and damn thoroughly regulated…what do you see as negative about demanding the same standards from alternative medicine? — eric "the alternative to seeing things in black and white is to see them in full colour"

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So what does this have to do with "cell salts"? — CBI, MD

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting article at http://www.aafp.org/afp/971101ap/holland.html

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Actualy, Minerals  and the roles they play in the body have been  studed by science extensively. We know what sodium is used for. We know what calcium is used for. We even know what minerals that the body only uses in miniscual quantities like seleneum, cobalt and zinc  do. We know that the symptoms of nutritional dificiances are directly related to what the nutreant does. IE. We know  that  folic acid is used by the body to maintain nerve health and to build a healthy nerviouse system in a developing organism. We know that a dificancy most comonly causes seriouse problems during pregnancy in the form of nuralogical defects.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Science doesn’t even understand homeopathy. Maybe homeopathy hasn’t been able to be demonstrated to work because the homeopathic treatments aren’t something that the body wants. I’m sure if tests were done on the 12 homeopathic cell salts, it would be found they were everything they claim to be.  Not only that but science would have a whole new area to explore. Or maybe, like you, she is persistently misguided. Several of us have tried to suggest errors in her evidence and in her logic.  But she clearly won’t take "no" for an answer.  And that’s the important difference between what she’s pushing and what science is all about:  she won’t accept even the POSSIBILITY that she could be wrong. You can’t have a remotely scientific discussion with someone who is convinced beyond all reason of their total infallibility. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Disclaimer:  As far as I am aware, the opinions expressed herein are not those of my employer.

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The same old cynism. The medical establishment police strikes again. Say something positive for a change. Mick Sadler

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You need to understand that repetition of the same tired claims is not evidence of anything but dogged, perhaps pathological, persistance.  When you have some evidence to back up your claims (not testimonials, or shills that are directed here), then present it.  That is not to much to ask for something that you are asking people to ingest into their bodies.

Response:

From Encarta Virchow, Rudolf (1821-1902), German pathologist, archaeologist, and anthropologist, the founder of cellular pathology. Virchow was born in Schivelbein, Pomerania (now Swidwin, Poland), and educated at the University of Berlin. In 1843 he became prosector at the Charit

Question:

I was diagnosed with bronchitis by my GP last Thursday.  He prescribed Biaxin (500mg bid) and Prednisone (10mg bid) due to the fact that my chest was locked up tight.  He opted not to give me Rx for cough, just said to take Robitussin DM.  I am also taking Serevent, Flovent 220 (1 puff bid), Accolate and Nasacort.  Plus I have been needing Proventil in the afternoon since I got sick.  I have taken everything diligently, down to the cough medicine.  Still am so SOB that walking and talking is a real struggle. Called my asthma doc yesterday morning and the receptionist said to call my Gp first since he was last to see me.  Did that and his nurse said to just keep taking everything it will take some time to clear up.   Called back to asthma doc at noon because I was getting no air in.  The nurse answered this time and asked me to come in this afternoon at 4pm.  She said she could hear my breathing problem over the phone.  I am curious what else I can take that would help?  My gosh, I’m on a ton of meds and it’s not working.  This is the first time this has happened to me and I must admit I’m quite concerned. Pretty scary. Patrice

Response:

Been down this route before!    Whenever I get a bad cold (chest)  I always end up on heavy, longer-term steroids.   Your doc may give you a few breathing treatments in the office,  (neb)    followed by a shot to open up the breathing passages and may even up your dose of steroids.  Don’t be surprised if he mentions the "hospital" if your  pulse/ox reading  is low. Not only treating the infection–but getting the swollen lungs down is even more pressing! Good luck and you are doing the right thing!   Do what they say!!  I learned the hard way a few years ago!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed with bronchitis by my GP last Thursday.  He prescribed Biaxin (500mg bid) and Prednisone (10mg bid) due to the fact that my chest was locked up tight.  He opted not to give me Rx for cough, just said to take Robitussin DM.  I am also taking Serevent, Flovent 220 (1 puff bid), Accolate and Nasacort.  Plus I have been needing Proventil in the afternoon since I got sick.  I have taken everything diligently, down to the cough medicine.  Still am so SOB that walking and talking is a real struggle. Called my asthma doc yesterday morning and the receptionist said to call my Gp first since he was last to see me.  Did that and his nurse said to just keep taking everything it will take some time to clear up.   Called back to asthma doc at noon because I was getting no air in.  The nurse answered this time and asked me to come in this afternoon at 4pm.  She said she could hear my breathing problem over the phone.  I am curious what else I can take that would help?  My gosh, I’m on a ton of meds and it’s not working.  This is the first time this has happened to me and I must admit I’m quite concerned. Pretty scary. Patrice

Response:

Yes, Biaxin really tastes awful!!  I would have a "copper penny" taste in my mouth hours after I took the pill.  Yuck. And I have another question.  I hope I don’t sound too dumb here, but my asthma doc told me if my infection was bacterial I would know it in a couple of days and therefore have to be back on an antibiotic.  After a fairly good day yesterday, last night I was awake most of the night with difficulty taking a deep breath again.  My chest seems to be a bit more congested today.  I hate bugging my doctors, but I sure don’t want to go another 6 days really SOB.  How would I know if it’s bacterial or not??

Give the doctors a call.  Tell him that you are having problems. If the doctor has a problem with this, find another doctor. It’s a terrible responsibility – but somebody has to be the Americans.

Response:

Yes, Biaxin really tastes awful!!  I would have a "copper penny" taste in my mouth hours after I took the pill.  Yuck. And I have another question.  I hope I don’t sound too dumb here, but my asthma doc told me if my infection was bacterial I would know it in a couple of days and therefore have to be back on an antibiotic.  After a fairly good day yesterday, last night I was awake most of the night with difficulty taking a deep breath again.  My chest seems to be a bit more congested today.  I hate bugging my doctors, but I sure don’t want to go another 6 days really SOB.  How would I know if it’s bacterial or not?? Thanks for any input! Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Biaxin tends to give higher blood levels and has a little broader spectrum than Zithromax but Biaxin tastes nasty (even when swallowed), and is more expensive. Hello CBI, I generally am prescribed Z-Pak, but this time my GP felt I needed a stronger drug (which he thinks Biaxin is).  I will give him a copy of the information I have on Biaxin and Accolate the next time I see him.  I already gave same info to my asthma doc. Nah, same stuff. There are some pharmacologic differences but they are similar in terms of killing infections. They are also similar to erythromicin. I tried Singulair first, but really had some strange side effects…tingling and numbness in arms, legs and face, plus was very disoriented.  So, I was changed to Accolate and it really made a difference for me. Makes sense. I usually start with Singulair for the reasons I mentioned and try Accolate if there are side effects. My asthma doc also said the dose of prednisone was not high enough, and increased it to 2-10mg bid on a taper down.  I am pretty sensitive to steroids, so they tend to be conservative when prescribing them. Makes sense -hence the disclaimer. I’m feeling a bit better today, breathing not so labored thankfully! Glad to hear it -good luck. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given. — Don Elton Columbia, SC http://www.midcarolina.org

Response:

Biaxin tends to give higher blood levels and has a little broader spectrum than Zithromax but Biaxin tastes nasty (even when swallowed), and is more expensive. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello CBI, I generally am prescribed Z-Pak, but this time my GP felt I needed a stronger drug (which he thinks Biaxin is).  I will give him a copy of the information I have on Biaxin and Accolate the next time I see him.  I already gave same info to my asthma doc. Nah, same stuff. There are some pharmacologic differences but they are similar in terms of killing infections. They are also similar to erythromicin. I tried Singulair first, but really had some strange side effects…tingling and numbness in arms, legs and face, plus was very disoriented.  So, I was changed to Accolate and it really made a difference for me. Makes sense. I usually start with Singulair for the reasons I mentioned and try Accolate if there are side effects. My asthma doc also said the dose of prednisone was not high enough, and increased it to 2-10mg bid on a taper down.  I am pretty sensitive to steroids, so they tend to be conservative when prescribing them. Makes sense -hence the disclaimer. I’m feeling a bit better today, breathing not so labored thankfully! Glad to hear it -good luck. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

– Don Elton Columbia, SC http://www.midcarolina.org

Response:

Hello CBI, I generally am prescribed Z-Pak, but this time my GP felt I needed a stronger drug (which he thinks Biaxin is).  I will give him a copy of the information I have on Biaxin and Accolate the next time I see him.  I already gave same info to my asthma doc.

Nah, same stuff. There are some pharmacologic differences but they are similar in terms of killing infections. They are also similar to erythromicin. I tried Singulair first, but really had some strange side effects…tingling and numbness in arms, legs and face, plus was very disoriented.  So, I was changed to Accolate and it really made a difference for me.

Makes sense. I usually start with Singulair for the reasons I mentioned and try Accolate if there are side effects. My asthma doc also said the dose of prednisone was not high enough, and increased it to 2-10mg bid on a taper down.  I am pretty sensitive to steroids, so they tend to be conservative when prescribing them.

Makes sense -hence the disclaimer. I’m feeling a bit better today, breathing not so labored thankfully!

Glad to hear it -good luck. — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

Response:

Two suggestions     -If your GP thinks you must have an antibiotic Zithromax would be a better choice as it is not metabolized in t he liver like Biaxin and should not affect the Accolate much. (both are in the same class.     – Singulair, likewise, has fewer drug interactions than Accolate. It is also once daily and can be taken with or without food.     – (OK three) Why so low a dose of prednisone? — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Just got back from my asthma doc.  He told me I should have been feeling better (breathing wise) by now.  I tried to blow into the computer for a spirogram, to no avail.  I did show him the information from Zeneca that says using Biaxin with Accolate has been shown to reduce the availability of the Accolate by 40% (that was news to him).  At any rate, he asked me if I needed a nebulizer and I said I was inhaling OK on the puffers.  He increased my prednisone to 2-10mg bid for 3 days, then 1-10mg bid for 3 days…hold the Flovent until completing the oral steroids.  He also told me to stop taking the Biaxin as he felt it may very well be interfering with the Accolate (which was a wonder drug for me).  He felt 6 days on the antibiotic would be enough for any infection.  Recheck in one week or sooner if I get worse.  I’m quite sure my GP would be upset if he new I was stopping the Biaxin, but I think I better go with the change in treatment. Thanks for listening. Patrice Been down this route before!    Whenever I get a bad cold (chest)  I always end up on heavy, longer-term steroids.   Your doc may give you a few breathing treatments in the office,  (neb)    followed by a shot to open up the breathing passages and may even up your dose of steroids.  Don’t be surprised if he mentions the "hospital" if your  pulse/ox reading  is low. Not only treating the infection–but getting the swollen lungs down is even more pressing! Good luck and you are doing the right thing!   Do what they say!!  I learned the hard way a few years ago!! I was diagnosed with bronchitis by my GP last Thursday.  He prescribed Biaxin (500mg bid) and Prednisone (10mg bid) due to the fact that my chest was locked up tight.  He opted not to give me Rx for cough, just said to take Robitussin DM.  I am also taking Serevent, Flovent 220 (1 puff bid), Accolate and Nasacort.  Plus I have been needing Proventil in the afternoon since I got sick.  I have taken everything diligently, down to the cough medicine.  Still am so SOB that walking and talking is a real struggle. Called my asthma doc yesterday morning and the receptionist said to call my Gp first since he was last to see me.  Did that and his nurse said to just keep taking everything it will take some time to clear up.   Called back to asthma doc at noon because I was getting no air in.  The nurse answered this time and asked me to come in this afternoon at 4pm.  She said she could hear my breathing problem over the phone.  I am curious what else I can take that would help?  My gosh, I’m on a ton of meds and it’s not working.  This is the first time this has happened to me and I must admit I’m quite concerned. Pretty scary. Patrice

Response:

Hello CBI, I generally am prescribed Z-Pak, but this time my GP felt I needed a stronger drug (which he thinks Biaxin is).  I will give him a copy of the information I have on Biaxin and Accolate the next time I see him.  I already gave same info to my asthma doc. I tried Singulair first, but really had some strange side effects…tingling and numbness in arms, legs and face, plus was very disoriented.  So, I was changed to Accolate and it really made a difference for me. My asthma doc also said the dose of prednisone was not high enough, and increased it to 2-10mg bid on a taper down.  I am pretty sensitive to steroids, so they tend to be conservative when prescribing them. I’m feeling a bit better today, breathing not so labored thankfully!  My asthma doctor said I need to be careful not to get sick again…something about the prednisone and infection.  I have two school aged kids and let me tell you, sometimes we pass the bugs around. Thanks much, Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two suggestions    -If your GP thinks you must have an antibiotic Zithromax would be a better choice as it is not metabolized in t he liver like Biaxin and should not affect the Accolate much. (both are in the same class.    - Singulair, likewise, has fewer drug interactions than Accolate. It is also once daily and can be taken with or without food.    - (OK three) Why so low a dose of prednisone? — CBI, M.D. Please note: It is impossible to accurately diagnose medical problems without seeing the patient and reviewing the entire history. These posts are intended to be helpful and informative. Always check with your doctor before following any advice given. Hello, Just got back from my asthma doc.  He told me I should have been feeling better (breathing wise) by now.  I tried to blow into the computer for a spirogram, to no avail.  I did show him the information from Zeneca that says using Biaxin with Accolate has been shown to reduce the availability of the Accolate by 40% (that was news to him).  At any rate, he asked me if I needed a nebulizer and I said I was inhaling OK on the puffers.  He increased my prednisone to 2-10mg bid for 3 days, then 1-10mg bid for 3 days…hold the Flovent until completing the oral steroids.  He also told me to stop taking the Biaxin as he felt it may very well be interfering with the Accolate (which was a wonder drug for me).  He felt 6 days on the antibiotic would be enough for any infection.  Recheck in one week or sooner if I get worse.  I’m quite sure my GP would be upset if he new I was stopping the Biaxin, but I think I better go with the change in treatment. Thanks for listening. Patrice Been down this route before!    Whenever I get a bad cold (chest)  I always end up on heavy, longer-term steroids.   Your doc may give you a few breathing treatments in the office,  (neb)    followed by a shot to open up the breathing passages and may even up your dose of steroids.  Don’t be surprised if he mentions the "hospital" if your  pulse/ox reading  is low. Not only treating the infection–but getting the swollen lungs down is even more pressing! Good luck and you are doing the right thing!   Do what they say!!  I learned the hard way a few years ago!! I was diagnosed with bronchitis by my GP last Thursday.  He prescribed Biaxin (500mg bid) and Prednisone (10mg bid) due to the fact that my chest was locked up tight.  He opted not to give me Rx for cough, just said to take Robitussin DM.  I am also taking Serevent, Flovent 220 (1 puff bid), Accolate and Nasacort.  Plus I have been needing Proventil in the afternoon since I got sick.  I have taken everything diligently, down to the cough medicine.  Still am so SOB that walking and talking is a real struggle. Called my asthma doc yesterday morning and the receptionist said to call my Gp first since he was last to see me.  Did that and his nurse said to just keep taking everything it will take some time to clear up.   Called back to asthma doc at noon because I was getting no air in.  The nurse answered this time and asked me to come in this afternoon at 4pm.  She said she could hear my breathing problem over the phone.  I am curious what else I can take that would help?  My gosh, I’m on a ton of meds and it’s not working.  This is the first time this has happened to me and I must admit I’m quite concerned. Pretty scary. Patrice

Response:

Hello, Just got back from my asthma doc.  He told me I should have been feeling better (breathing wise) by now.  I tried to blow into the computer for a spirogram, to no avail.  I did show him the information from Zeneca that says using Biaxin with Accolate has been shown to reduce the availability of the Accolate by 40% (that was news to him).  At any rate, he asked me if I needed a nebulizer and I said I was inhaling OK on the puffers.  He increased my prednisone to 2-10mg bid for 3 days, then 1-10mg bid for 3 days…hold the Flovent until completing the oral steroids.  He also told me to stop taking the Biaxin as he felt it may very well be interfering with the Accolate (which was a wonder drug for me).  He felt 6 days on the antibiotic would be enough for any infection.  Recheck in one week or sooner if I get worse.  I’m quite sure my GP would be upset if he new I was stopping the Biaxin, but I think I better go with the change in treatment. Thanks for listening. Patrice – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Been down this route before!    Whenever I get a bad cold (chest)  I always end up on heavy, longer-term steroids.   Your doc may give you a few breathing treatments in the office,  (neb)    followed by a shot to open up the breathing passages and may even up your dose of steroids.  Don’t be surprised if he mentions the "hospital" if your  pulse/ox reading  is low. Not only treating the infection–but getting the swollen lungs down is even more pressing! Good luck and you are doing the right thing!   Do what they say!!  I learned the hard way a few years ago!! I was diagnosed with bronchitis by my GP last Thursday.  He prescribed Biaxin (500mg bid) and Prednisone (10mg bid) due to the fact that my chest was locked up tight.  He opted not to give me Rx for cough, just said to take Robitussin DM.  I am also taking Serevent, Flovent 220 (1 puff bid), Accolate and Nasacort.  Plus I have been needing Proventil in the afternoon since I got sick.  I have taken everything diligently, down to the cough medicine.  Still am so SOB that walking and talking is a real struggle. Called my asthma doc yesterday morning and the receptionist said to call my Gp first since he was last to see me.  Did that and his nurse said to just keep taking everything it will take some time to clear up.   Called back to asthma doc at noon because I was getting no air in.  The nurse answered this time and asked me to come in this afternoon at 4pm.  She said she could hear my breathing problem over the phone.  I am curious what else I can take that would help?  My gosh, I’m on a ton of meds and it’s not working.  This is the first time this has happened to me and I must admit I’m quite concerned. Pretty scary. Patrice

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Question:

besides death! i really need to know. please email me, do not respond to this post on the message board because i will not see it. thanx so much!

Response:

besides death! i really need to know. please email me, do not respond to this post on the message board because i will not see it. thanx so much!

There is very strong evidence of irreversible airways damage.   No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

besides death! i really need to know. please email me, do not respond to this post on the message board because i will not see it. thanx so much!

emailed & posted Untreated asthma can result in ‘remodeling’ of lungs and permanent loss of lung function. For details see the following. For a dissenting opinion see the AAAAI reference. http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/newsline/conferen/jointmtg/dec… Accelerated, Irreversible Lung Function Decline Seen In Asthmatics http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/treatmnt/guide/guidelin/pathog…  Airway Pathology and Asthma http://www.aaaai.org/aadmc/currentliterature/selectedarticles/airwayr…  Airway remodeling in asthma Ellis

Response:

Question:

Hello all, New here and glad that I found you. My son has had asthma all his life. A homeopath told me not even to come back if he wasn’t willing to completely stop all dairy products. We have tried it and I’m not sure if it’s made a difference or not. Our asthma/allergy Dr. says that dairy is ok. Predictably, I fight with my son all the time about eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter. I have always been a big milk drinker. Never any reason to think it effects my asthma….I agree with most of the posters..Unless there is an allergy to milk…it does not effect asthma…

Response:

Thank you for your responses to my dairy question. All 4 said that it is not necessary to elliminate dairy. I am still so scared of this illness. He just was hopitalized for a peak flow of 150 (should be 500). But, I so appreciate your time. He’s dying for pizza and eggnog (of all things). Now a part of my is afraid of dairy. I think that I’m just afraid of this illness, and I’m a nurse, too. Glad that I have you guys to talk too.

If he is not allergic to dairy, it will have no effect on his allergies or asthma. SW.

Response:

Thank you for your responses to my dairy question. All 4 said that it is not necessary to elliminate dairy. I am still so scared of this illness. He just was hopitalized for a peak flow of 150 (should be 500). But, I so appreciate your time. He’s dying for pizza and eggnog (of all things). Now a part of my is afraid of dairy. I think that I’m just afraid of this illness, and I’m a nurse, too. Glad that I have you guys to talk too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, New here and glad that I found you. My son has had asthma all his life. A homeopath  told me not even to come back if he wasn’t willing to completely stop all dairy products. We have tried it and I’m not sure if it’s made a difference or not. Our asthma/allergy Dr. says that dairy is ok. Predictably, I fight with my son all the time about  eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter. Thanks in advance

Response:

Hello all, New here and glad that I found you. My son has had asthma all his life. A homeopath  told me not even to come back if he wasn’t willing to completely stop all dairy products. We have tried it and I’m not sure if it’s made a difference or not. Our asthma/allergy Dr. says that dairy is ok. Predictably, I fight with my son all the time about  eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter. Thanks in advance

I tried avoiding cows milk and related products for a while…though for my eczema rather than my asthma…it made not a jot of difference to either…I have problems if I eat a lot of cheese, but I have problems if I eat a lot of any single food…I know people that it has worked for and others it hasn’t…it looks like in your son’s case it’s not worth the effort…and it looks like in the homeopath’s case he doesn’t know what he’s talking about it’s hard enough to get a good balanced diet as it is…I’d suggest not worrying about avoiding dairy products eric "the alternative to seeing things in black and white is to see them in full colour"

Response:

You better avoid the homeopath and his bu…..t !! H.Henkler bolcars schrieb: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, New here and glad that I found you. My son has had asthma all his life. A homeopath  told me not even to come back if he wasn’t willing to completely stop all dairy products. We have tried it and I’m not sure if it’s made a difference or not. Our asthma/allergy Dr. says that dairy is ok. Predictably, I fight with my son all the time about  eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter. Thanks in advance

Response:

son all the time about  eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter.

Unless he is allergic to dairy products, eliminating them with have no effect on his allergies. SW.

Response:

Hello all, New here and glad that I found you. My son has had asthma all his life. A homeopath  told me not even to come back if he wasn’t willing to completely stop all dairy products. We have tried it and I’m not sure if it’s made a difference or not. Our asthma/allergy Dr. says that dairy is ok. Predictably, I fight with my son all the time about  eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter.

The only piece of good advice you got from the homeopath was not to come back.  There is a reason that homeopathy is described as ‘The ultimate fake.’ Unless there is a doctor diagnosed milk allergy or intolerance the stuff about milk making asthma worse is an old wives tale. No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

Response:

Hello all, New here and glad that I found you. My son has had asthma all his life. A homeopath  told me not even to come back if he wasn’t willing to completely stop all dairy products. We have tried it and I’m not sure if it’s made a difference or not. Our asthma/allergy Dr. says that dairy is ok. Predictably, I fight with my son all the time about  eliminating dairy; which is very hard for a teenager. I’d appreciate any comments on this matter. Thanks in advance

Response:

Question:

I was symptom free from asthma until I moved to Dallas Texas.  Now on a daily basis it is a struggle to breath.  I thought moving to Dallas would be a wonderful experience for my family but it seems that since we’ve been here Ive struggled with more respiratory problems than I imagined I could ever have. I landed myself in the hospital with pneumonia, had to have a bronchioscopy to releave the pressure in my right lung which was blocked.  Im overweight but not by much.  First I would ask can weight have a direct factor in how bad your asthma is? Im currently on serevent, flovent and albuteral acetate for flair ups. Problem now is I bruise so easily and my pain factor is through the roof.! My daughter accidently dropped a jar (plastic) of peanut butter.  It bounced off the floor and hit my shin.  I though I was going to die from the pain I experienced.  It was like a someone dropped a concrete block on my leg.  The bruise that developed is still with me. Three weeks later.  Two weeks after this incident, I was having behavior problems with my seven year old daughter.  She ended up getting spanked by me with a bare hand.  I broke several veins in my hand and required ice on it to stop the swelling.  I barely touched her, it was more a swat than a spank yet again the palm of my hand bruised and the pain stayed for well over two hours.  Its the third time that has me worried.  I stopped taking the inhalers, my chest feels alot heavier lately and even cleaning the house has become difficult as breathing takes every effort I can manage. Not to say that I am hyperventilating or anything like that, Its just difficult to breath but necessary.  I have started to exercise once again to help myself get back into shape.  Now I am dealing with poor circulation in my hands and feet.  When I overheat my hands swell from the lack of circulation.  My sides are now bruised from exersizing and touching the areas seems to only make it worse. I am not sure what is going on with me but I have scheduled a full physical for myself later this week.  I would appreciate knowing that I am not the only person going through this pain and that I am not crazy Thank you in advance Deborah

Response:

I was symptom free from asthma until I moved to Dallas Texas.  Now on a daily basis it is a struggle to breath.  I thought moving to Dallas would be a wonderful experience for my family but it seems that since we’ve been here Ive struggled with more respiratory problems than I imagined I could ever have. I landed myself in the hospital with pneumonia, had to have a bronchioscopy to releave the pressure in my right lung which was blocked.  Im overweight but not by much.  First I would ask can weight have a direct factor in how bad your asthma is?

Depends on how overweight you are.  I know I’m about 20-25 pounds too much but my doc forbids me to diet.  And, the extra weight actually was a buffer for me when I had serious intestinal problems two years ago.  If I’d been any smaller, I probably would have died. Im currently on serevent, flovent and albuteral acetate for flair ups. Problem now is I bruise so easily and my pain factor is through the roof.! My daughter accidently dropped a jar (plastic) of peanut butter.  It bounced off the floor and hit my shin.  I though I was going to die from the pain I experienced.  It was like a someone dropped a concrete block on my leg.  The bruise that developed is still with me. Three weeks later.  Two weeks after this incident, I was having behavior problems with my seven year old daughter.  She ended up getting spanked by me with a bare hand.  I broke several veins in my hand and required ice on it to stop the swelling.  I barely touched her, it was more a swat than a spank yet again the palm of my hand bruised and the pain stayed for well over two hours.  Its the third time that has me worried.  I stopped taking the inhalers, my chest feels alot heavier lately and even cleaning the house has become difficult as breathing takes every effort I can manage.

There is almost certainly something ELSE Wrong.  Bruising like that is not normal and should not be a side-effect of the drugs you mention. Not to say that I am hyperventilating or anything like that, Its just difficult to breath but necessary.  I have started to exercise once again to help myself get back into shape.  Now I am dealing with poor circulation in my hands and feet.  When I overheat my hands swell from the lack of circulation.  My sides are now bruised from exersizing and touching the areas seems to only make it worse. I am not sure what is going on with me but I have scheduled a full physical for myself later this week.  I would appreciate knowing that I am not the only person going through this pain and that I am not crazy

Get to the doctor ASAP.  Forget about the full physical, get in now to have them find out why you are bruising so easily. Thank you in advance Deborah

Sue Smoke Often Die Young

Response:

I was symptom free from asthma until I moved to Dallas Texas.  Now on a daily basis it is a struggle to breath.  I thought moving to Dallas would be a wonderful experience for my family but it seems that since we’ve been here Ive struggled with more respiratory problems than I imagined I could ever have. I landed myself in the hospital with pneumonia, had to have a bronchioscopy to releave the pressure in my right lung which was blocked.  Im overweight but not by much.  First I would ask can weight have a direct factor in how bad your asthma is?

Severe overweight could affect asthma, slightly overweight is unlikely to, depending on size of chest cavity. Im currently on serevent, flovent and albuteral acetate for flair ups. Problem now is I bruise so easily and my pain factor is through the roof.! My daughter accidently dropped a jar (plastic) of peanut butter.  It bounced off the floor and hit my shin.  I though I was going to die from the pain I experienced.  It was like a someone dropped a concrete block on my leg.  The bruise that developed is still with me. Three weeks later.  Two weeks after this incident, I was having behavior problems with my seven year old daughter.  She ended up getting spanked by me with a bare hand.  I broke several veins in my hand and required ice on it to stop the swelling.  I barely touched her, it was more a swat than a spank yet again the palm of my hand bruised and the pain stayed for well over two hours.  Its the third time that has me worried.

Are you by chance taking oral steroids, like prednisone. They can cause a tendancy to bruise.   I stopped taking the inhalers, my chest feels alot heavier lately and even cleaning the house has become difficult as breathing takes every effort I can manage.

Bad idea to stop the asthma inhalers without doctor’s knowledge. This can only make your breathing problems worse. Not to say that I am hyperventilating or anything like that, Its just difficult to breath but necessary.  I have started to exercise once again to help myself get back into shape.  Now I am dealing with poor circulation in my hands and feet.  When I overheat my hands swell from the lack of circulation.  My sides are now bruised from exersizing and touching the areas seems to only make it worse. I am not sure what is going on with me but I have scheduled a full physical for myself later this week.  I would appreciate knowing that I am not the only person going through this pain and that I am not crazy Thank you in advance  Deborah

Your symptoms are not typical of asthma, at least not the bruising (unless on prednisone). A full physical is a good idea, with tests for diabetes, heart disease, kidney & liver function, etc. You may need referrals to specialists for further testing. Do you have relatives with poor circulation problems? Ellis

Response:

My best advice is to go back on your inhalers, get to a pulmonologist for your asthma control, and to a hemotologist for the bruising.  Unless you are on Prednisone, you shouldn’t be bruising like that from the inhalers.  At least in my experience, I never did. You have GOT to get checked…both for your asthma management, and your bruising.  I had a hemotologist a few years back, because I was also bruising like crazy.  Found out the wall of my bloodvessels are thinner than normal, therefore bursting easier.  Nothing major in my case, but it could have been if I hadn’t checked it out. Good Luck! *hugs* Ash http://www.angelfire.com/tn/Ashleigh1976/index.html Try smiling, it won’t kill you and might even brighten your day.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was symptom free from asthma until I moved to Dallas Texas.  Now on a daily basis it is a struggle to breath.  I thought moving to Dallas would be a wonderful experience for my family but it seems that since we’ve been here Ive struggled with more respiratory problems than I imagined I could ever have. I landed myself in the hospital with pneumonia, had to have a bronchioscopy to releave the pressure in my right lung which was blocked.  Im overweight but not by much.  First I would ask can weight have a direct factor in how bad your asthma is? Im currently on serevent, flovent and albuteral acetate for flair ups. Problem now is I bruise so easily and my pain factor is through the roof.! My daughter accidently dropped a jar (plastic) of peanut butter.  It bounced off the floor and hit my shin.  I though I was going to die from the pain I experienced.  It was like a someone dropped a concrete block on my leg.  The bruise that developed is still with me. Three weeks later.  Two weeks after this incident, I was having behavior problems with my seven year old daughter.  She ended up getting spanked by me with a bare hand.  I broke several veins in my hand and required ice on it to stop the swelling.  I barely touched her, it was more a swat than a spank yet again the palm of my hand bruised and the pain stayed for well over two hours.  Its the third time that has me worried.  I stopped taking the inhalers, my chest feels alot heavier lately and even cleaning the house has become difficult as breathing takes every effort I can manage. Not to say that I am hyperventilating or anything like that, Its just difficult to breath but necessary.  I have started to exercise once again to help myself get back into shape.  Now I am dealing with poor circulation in my hands and feet.  When I overheat my hands swell from the lack of circulation.  My sides are now bruised from exersizing and touching the areas seems to only make it worse. I am not sure what is going on with me but I have scheduled a full physical for myself later this week.  I would appreciate knowing that I am not the only person going through this pain and that I am not crazy

You’re not crazy.  This also doesn’t sound like typical side effects of asthma medication, unless you are on high-dose oral steroids.  Get thee to a doctor. Chris Owens

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Question:

I do count my blessings, even when they are spinning so much I think I might fall from the dizziness of it (low blood pressure side affect). Tina in Montreal

Response:

Is there a link between Asthma & low blood pressure? Mine is normally at 110 / 60, and my Asthmatic Dad has low pres as well. Just wondering.

Many asthmatics have low blood pressure. Chris Owens

Response:

also have bp of 110/60 and am an asthmatic. yvonne

Response:

Is there a link between Asthma & low blood pressure? Mine is normally at 110 / 60, and my Asthmatic Dad has low pres as well. Just wondering.

I don’t know if there’s a connection, but I have always had low blood pressure (and asthma and allergies). Joan

Response:

Is there a link between Asthma & low blood pressure? Mine is normally at 110 / 60, and my Asthmatic Dad has low pres as well. Just wondering.

Tina, Some asthma medications can cause blood pressure to increase.  Oral steroids can raise blood pressure, so can bronchial dilators, and the latter also raises the heart rate.  There’s also the emotional impact of asthma to consider.  Being unable to breathe properly is stressful and frequent visits to the ER can also make an asthmatic’s blood pressure rise.  Then there is added stress from side effects, lost work time, lost income, medical bills, and social limitations (e.g., not being able to go to a bar because of smoke).  All these factors can affect blood pressure.  In addition, asthmatics who are "vascular reactors" (people whose blood pressure goes up significantly under stress) may need to take daily blood pressure medication because of these adverse effects.  Lastly, there is the familiar "white coat effect" whereby patients blood pressure tends to be higher in the doctor’s office. I do not know of any asthma meds that actually lower blood pressure, but always check the literature that comes with your meds to see if there is any blood pressure reaction just to be safe.  Too low blood pressure can be dangerous too.  But count your blessings, because having low blood pressure affords you protection from the one of the more dangerous side effects of asthma and asthma medications — increased blood pressure.   bRoCk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is there a link between Asthma & low blood pressure? Mine is normally at 110 / 60, and my Asthmatic Dad has low pres as well. Just wondering. — Tina in Montreal

Response:

Is there a link between Asthma & low blood pressure? Mine is normally at 110 / 60, and my Asthmatic Dad has low pres as well. Just wondering. — Tina in Montreal

Response:

Question:

One of my uni lecturers just told me that she’d heard on the radio that several triathletes had been busted for asthma medication, or something like that? Does anyone know anything about this, or is it just Les McDonald and the ITU trying to keep Australia out of the medals at Sydney (ref ITU Sydney 1998)? I’d like to hope it’s the latter. In hope of information Al

Response:

: several triathletes had been busted for asthma medication, or something like : that? Does anyone know anything about this, or is it just Les McDonald and As reported in the Australian newspaper today (Thursday 20 Aug). "Three caught in drug ‘trap’" Loretta Harrop, Nicole Andronicus and Nicole Hackett are the three involved.  They are registered asthmatics whose medications are approved for use by inhaler.  On their drug testing forms they used the Australian brand names rather than the generic names and the French authorities misunderstood (so Triathlon Australia president Bill Walker says). Walker also said that people are concerned internationally about the number of Australian triathletes who are asthmatic. Apparently the drugs used commonly in asthma inhalers can have an anabolic effect if taken orally or by injection. What about all the Australian swimmers who are asthmatic?  Don’t tell me there is concern over them as well? I see plenty of asthma inhalers at the pool in the morning.  I knew there was a reason why I can’t keep up with Kieren in the mornings. Kevin Austin, Department of Mechanical Engineering The University of Queensland Brisbane, Australia.

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As reported in the Australian newspaper today (Thursday 20 Aug). "Three caught in drug ‘trap’" Loretta Harrop, Nicole Andronicus and Nicole Hackett are the three involved.  They are registered asthmatics whose medications are approved for use by inhaler.  On their drug testing forms they used the Australian brand names rather than the generic names and the French authorities misunderstood (so Triathlon Australia president Bill Walker says).

france is a bad place for asthmatics to race, as i recall.  i believe it was rolf eggert a couple of years ago that raced in france and had a doctor’s letter (which is required), but the french still disqualified him if i remember correctly, because his letter was from a german doctor, not a french one. salbutamol, also called albuterol, the generic names for ventolin (glaxo) and proventil (schering) are allowed if used in inhaled form, so long as a doctor’s letter is included.  they are disallowed in pill form.  there are some other so-called "rescue medications", these are usually in the class of beta-2-agonists, and the list of approved versions of these is quite short. There are now longer lasting beta-2-agonists, with generic names formoterol and salmeterol (serevent– glaxo), i don’t know if they’ve made it on the approved list (as i recall this is a class where the category is banned, except for certain named drugs that are approved). Walker also said that people are concerned internationally about the number of Australian triathletes who are asthmatic. Apparently the drugs used commonly in asthma inhalers can have an anabolic effect if taken orally or by injection.

this is an urban myth, by the way, in which the IOC still believes.  there was a small canadian study years ago that indicated this, but subsequent tests have apparently failed to reproduce anything.  i am quite certain that no athletes take inhaled beta-2-agonists for their so-called anabolic effects.  asthma inhalers have been around triathlon and cycling for as long as i’ve been in the sport, and they are strictly a way for athletes to get more air.   that you can get more air via an inhaler is the other urban myth (if you’re not having an asthma attack). in order for an inhaler to be effective, you have to be in some sort of bronchial spasm.  if you aren’t, the inhaler won’t do anything for you. i’ve experimented with my wife’s inhalers, they don’t help me a whit if i’m not having any bronchial problems.  but i occasionally get irritation in my bronchial passages through contact with certain triggers or pollution.  one time i took a beta-2-agonist in a pill form.  WOW.  i thought i could breath in the whole atmosphere.  but it made me very jumpy.  this is the reason, i think, that beta-2-agonists were originally put under scrutiny, not for any anabolic effect, but because they are stimulants. qrman

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -this is an urban myth, by the way, in which the IOC still believes.  there was a small canadian study years ago that indicated this, but subsequent tests have apparently failed to reproduce anything.  i am quite certain that no athletes take inhaled beta-2-agonists for their so-called anabolic effects.  asthma inhalers have been around triathlon and cycling for as long as i’ve been in the sport, and they are strictly a way for athletes to get more air.   that you can get more air via an inhaler is the other urban myth (if you’re not having an asthma attack). in order for an inhaler to be effective, you have to be in some sort of bronchial spasm.  if you aren’t, the inhaler won’t do anything for you. i’ve experimented with my wife’s inhalers, they don’t help me a whit if i’m not having any bronchial problems.  but i occasionally get irritation in my bronchial passages through contact with certain triggers or pollution.  one time i took a beta-2-agonist in a pill form.  WOW.  i thought i could breath in the whole atmosphere.  but it made me very jumpy.  this is the reason, i think, that beta-2-agonists were originally put under scrutiny, not for any anabolic effect, but because they are stimulants.

Dan’s pretty much right on. There are some stimulant effects and a lingering notion that oral or injected B2As are anabolic. However, until the IOC removes them from the list, ITU will continue to test for them. More to the point, this press release was inappropriate and damaging – and for no reason at all. Athletes testing positive for approved meds happens fairly routinely and is a non-issue. Yes, the metabolite shows as a positive in their urine, but as long as the athlete has an authorization on file with the NF, there is no doping violation. Period. I don’t know who or how this was "leaked" to the press, but it causes concerns where none are necessary. I even see it in the LA Times today, so it went out over the wires. As Chairman of the ITU Anti-Doping Commission, I’m appalled that the press are now looking for any and all reasons to write a story…even where none exists. Mark Sisson

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As Chairman of the ITU Anti-Doping Commission, I’m appalled that the press are now looking for any and all reasons to write a story…even where none exists. Mark Sisson

Mark, Considering this happened in France, we should not be surprised given the recent history, most noteably the Tour de France scandal. I suspect that the media in France is a  bit hyper active on the the drug front these days. I am not in any way condoniong their actions. Unfortunately, this is the way the media behaves when they smell blood(Urine?) The main stream media in Canada has been acting the same way for ten years now – ever since the Ben Johnson fisaco at the 1988 Olympic Games. Any athlete and drugs story is on the front pages of the sports sections or even on the front page of the whole newspaper. Johnson himself, sadly, still pulls in the headlines, with is quest for reinstatment with the IAAF and Athletics Canada. Steve Fleck

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i’ve experimented with my wife’s inhalers, they don’t help me a whit if i’m not having any bronchial problems.

Actually, most of the beta-2-agonists also work prophylactically if taken pre-exercise. Not that this changes anything else you’ve said. Just a nit. -Ekr —

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Dan posted, i’ve experimented with my wife’s inhalers, they don’t help me a whit if i’m not having any bronchial problems.  but i occasionally get        irritation in my bronchial passages through contact with certain triggers or pollution.  one time i took a beta-2-agonist in a pill form.  WOW.  i thought i could breath in the whole atmosphere.  but it made me very jumpy.  this is the reason, i think, that beta-2-agonists were       originally put under scrutiny, not for any anabolic effect, but because they are stimulants.

I would strongly discourage anyone from experimenting with someone elses inhalers!  ONLY use these (or any other medicine) under the care of a doctor.   Beta agonist work because they simulate your bodies sympathetic nervous system.  This means that the side effects of taking the drug include tachycardia, hypertension, tremor, nervousness, headache, dizziness, hyperactivity, insomnia, nausea, muscle cramps (last thing I’d want when doing a tri!) and here it comes the big bad ones, the possibility of paradoxical bronchospasm, and even anaphylaxis.  Not to mention they can have bad interactions with some antidepressent meds out there. Just thought I’d throw that 2 cents worth out there since I’ve seen much crazier things than someone experimenting with MDIs because they read on the net that somebody felt like "I could breath in the whole atmosphere".  No criticism meant to you Dan, I enjoy your posts and think your doing great things for our sport.  I just felt like being a mother hen.   Don Van Wie 4th year Med Student St. Louis, MO just tri-ing to practice what I preach.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan posted, i’ve experimented with my wife’s inhalers, they don’t help me a whit if i’m not having any bronchial problems.  but i occasionally get        irritation in my bronchial passages through contact with certain triggers or pollution.  one time i took a beta-2-agonist in a pill form.  WOW.  i thought i could breath in the whole atmosphere.  but it made me very jumpy.  this is the reason, i think, that beta-2-agonists were       originally put under scrutiny, not for any anabolic effect, but because they are stimulants. I would strongly discourage anyone from experimenting with someone elses inhalers!  ONLY use these (or any other medicine) under the care of a doctor.   Beta agonist work because they simulate your bodies sympathetic nervous system.  This means that the side effects of taking the drug include tachycardia, hypertension, tremor, nervousness, headache, dizziness, hyperactivity, insomnia, nausea, muscle cramps (last thing I’d want when doing a tri!) and here it comes the big bad ones, the possibility of paradoxical bronchospasm, and even anaphylaxis.  Not to mention they can have bad interactions with some antidepressent meds out there.

I think you’re overreacting here. The inhaled beta-2-agonists are really quite safe in most cases. It hardly takes a doctor to read the PDR or the leaflet that comes with the drug and see if the contraindications apply to you. Moreover, most of the side effects you list are unpredictable. All the doctor is going to do is give you the drug and take you off if you complain of nasty side effects. Yes, if you have a cardiovascular problem or are taking tricyclics or MAOIs, you should be careful, but if you’re taking tricyclics or MAOIs you should be careful about whatever you put into your body. -Ekr —

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Just thought I’d throw that 2 cents worth out there since I’ve seen much crazier things than someone experimenting with MDIs because they read on the net that somebody felt like "I could breath in the whole atmosphere".  No criticism meant to you Dan, I enjoy your posts and think your doing great things for our sport.  I just felt like being a mother hen.

of course you’re right.  at the same time, i find it interesting that most of the better pulmonologists and allergists who have a specialty in asthma will tell you that, of the two kinds of drugs, you’re quite a bit better off with a prescribed beta-2-agonist than an over the counter option.  in the light of what you described as possible side effects, it kind of makes you wonder about the heavily ad driven OTC stuff than anyone can buy. qrman

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As Chairman of the ITU Anti-Doping Commission, I’m appalled that the press are now looking for any and all reasons to write a story…even where none

exists. you can’t even imagine the shit fight we’re having with a major network affiliate in a large city over incredibly misleading stories (on a subject other than drugs, but this news organization would froth for good drug story, i can tell you).  it has been a striking experience.  i just can’t trust anyone but jim lehrer anymore. but back to the subject, i have often wonders how one tells the difference, in a test, between oral and inhaled B2A’s?  obviously there is a much higher amount running around in the blood taking it orally.  is there a threshold amount? qrman

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Actually, Oz has one of, if not the, highest incidence of Asthma per capita, in the world. So I guess that it’s not unreasonable to assume that they will have one of the highest incidence of asthmatic athletes in the world. No-one has yet figured this out, but it’s certainly a painful fact for us Ozzies. I’m a mild asthmatic triathlete myself, and take the basic drugs for this condition — Ventolin and Becotide (brand names). Both are "declarable" drugs, but you end up filling out the form yourself — which can lead to mistakes. The benefits of Ventolin (salbutamol) are zero for non-asthmatics, but a long-term management drug such as Becotide (beclomethasone) tends to raise eyebrows, as it’s a (IOC legal) corti-steroid (spelling?). I wouldn’t recommend anyone experimenting with either. On "bad-air" days, when I’m struggling for air and resort to higher dosages of Ventolin, the side-effects can be pretty nasty. Headspins, tremors, cramps (during swim-sessions) heart palpitations… not good, not good… On the other side of the coin… it’s been speculated that being asthmatic (within reason) may actually provide a competitive edge to some athletes — particularly swimmers. The theory goes that these competitors become so used to dealing with oxygen defecit, and are able to push themselves to levels, during an event, that others would not consider sustainable (and in fact would likely cause panic). An interesting idea, and it’s certainly true that a large number of the world’s top swimmers are asthmatic. — MB. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : several triathletes had been busted for asthma medication, or something like : that? Does anyone know anything about this, or is it just Les McDonald and As reported in the Australian newspaper today (Thursday 20 Aug). "Three caught in drug ‘trap’" Loretta Harrop, Nicole Andronicus and Nicole Hackett are the three involved.  They are registered asthmatics whose medications are approved for use by inhaler.  On their drug testing forms they used the Australian brand names rather than the generic names and the French authorities misunderstood (so Triathlon Australia president Bill Walker says). Walker also said that people are concerned internationally about the number of Australian triathletes who are asthmatic. Apparently the drugs used commonly in asthma inhalers can have an anabolic effect if taken orally or by injection. What about all the Australian swimmers who are asthmatic?  Don’t tell me there is concern over them as well? I see plenty of asthma inhalers at the pool in the morning.  I knew there was a reason why I can’t keep up with Kieren in the mornings. Kevin Austin, Department of Mechanical Engineering The University of Queensland Brisbane, Australia.

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Question:

HI David; Dr. Robert Ritch responds: There was a large study from Canada published in the J Am Med Assoc last year which received some press, saying that inhaled steroids can increase IOP. This study was retrospective and taken from 34,000 hospital records, so there are some flaws. It was also done studying adults. Children may respond faster and with a higher pressure rise. The best bet is to just monitor one’s IOP while taking inhaled steroids. Obviously, not everyone gets a pressure rise. It is dose and duration dependent in addition to depending on the individual susceptibility. Betoptic is a selective beta-1 blocker, which does not cause the pulmonary difficulties characteristic of the nonselective beta-1, beta-2 blockers. It is the only selective beta-1 blocker marketed at this time. Some patients can still develop asthma and shortness of breath, but about 90% of those with symptoms to the nonselective beta-blockers can tolerate betaxolol. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"David Janus" <dav…@expertez.com

wrote: I’m new to this group. From what I can tell, there seems to be a pretty knowledgeable bunch of people who contribute, so I thought I’d submit a question to see if I can get some information. Are there any known interactions between asthma medications (specifically inhaled steroids, as well as prednisone) and intraocular pressure? Conversely, what about effects of pressure-controlling eye-drops on asthma? Currently, I take Betoptic which, in some people, has been reported to aggravate asthma. I’ve been taking it for some time and I seem to be able to tolerate it. Thanks in advance for your help. David

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In article <6i1sav$b9…@news.netvision.net.il

,

  "David Janus" <dav…@expertez.com

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m new to this group. From what I can tell, there seems to be a pretty knowledgeable bunch of people who contribute, so I thought I’d submit a question to see if I can get some information. Are there any known interactions between asthma medications (specifically inhaled steroids, as well as prednisone) and intraocular pressure? Conversely, what about effects of pressure-controlling eye-drops on asthma? Currently, I take Betoptic which, in some people, has been reported to aggravate asthma. I’ve been taking it for some time and I seem to be able to tolerate it. Thanks in advance for your help. David

David, Steroids when used as eye drops are know to increase pressure in the eyes of persons predesposed to it (steroid responders). However, when taken orally e.g. for asthma are more likely to cause cataract and less likely to cause glaucoma (although possible). Drugs like timolol (non-selective beta blockers) used to treat glaucoma can exacerbate asthma is individuals suffering from asthma. Whereas, beta 1 selective blocker drugs (e.g. betaxolo) are relatively safe for use in asthamatics. I hope this information will be useful for you. Regards Sanjay —–== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==—– http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

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David asked about effects of asthma meds on eye pressure and eye meds on asthma. Undoubtedly, there will be some good responses confirming that there are interactions, so I won’t get into the details of that. I would suggest that breathing tests be conducted to be certain, as he feels, that the eye meds are not causing respiratory problems. And, I would encourage every attempt to remove the asthma element from the equation through dealing with any allergens which may be present and through a generously nutritious diet providing plenty of vitamins C, E, pantothenic acid, etc. (with a physicians approval) (Not a professional)

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I’m new to this group. From what I can tell, there seems to be a pretty knowledgeable bunch of people who contribute, so I thought I’d submit a question to see if I can get some information. Are there any known interactions between asthma medications (specifically inhaled steroids, as well as prednisone) and intraocular pressure? Conversely, what about effects of pressure-controlling eye-drops on asthma? Currently, I take Betoptic which, in some people, has been reported to aggravate asthma. I’ve been taking it for some time and I seem to be able to tolerate it. Thanks in advance for your help. David

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