Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, AND wrong."   H. L. Menkin Colin, sorry I didn’t get to you sooner on this.  I saw someone provide this as the "correct" item, which seems to bear out the intent of the quotation:  having someone volunteer "accuracy" on usenet may not be such a great idea.  Anyway, I have seen this in a bout ten different forms, but the supposedly accurate one is from Henry L. Mencken’s *Prejudices*, Second Series, 1920:  "…there is always a well-known solution to every human problem–neat, plausible, and wrong."  This is found on John Muir’s page of H. L. Mencken quotations at <http://w3.one.net/~muir/hlm/quotes.html.  For all I know, someone else’s Mencken quotations web page may have it different.  I suspect Henry would have liked it that way.  Mencken was a long-time writer and professional curmudgeon for the Baltimore Sun, although many of his writings originally appeared in New York and other cities.  I do not believe he was asthmatic (there, that gets this on topic).

The sig file as been corrected and updated, yet again. "…there is always a well-known solution to every human problem–neat, plausible, and wrong."    H. L. Menkin

Response:

"Before a man speaks, it is always safe to assume that he is a fool. After he speaks it is seldom necessary to assume."

"It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." – Mark Twain ?

Response:

The sig file as been corrected and updated, yet again. "…there is always a well-known solution to every human problem–neat, plausible, and wrong."   H. L. Menkin

But, Colin, the name is *Mencken*. [One more update....]

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, AND wrong."   H. L. Menkin Colin, sorry I didn’t get to you sooner on this.  I saw someone provide this as the "correct" item, which seems to bear out the intent of the quotation:  having someone volunteer "accuracy" on usenet may not be such a great idea.  Anyway, I have seen this in a bout ten different forms, but the supposedly accurate one is from Henry L. Mencken’s *Prejudices*, Second Series, 1920:  "…there is always a well-known solution to every human problem–neat, plausible, and wrong."  This is found on John Muir’s page of H. L. Mencken quotations at <http://w3.one.net/~muir/hlm/quotes.html.

Without the book, the above is still a third-hand source.  Or as put by another writer:      a nice quote by H. L Mencken that’s gets a fair amount      of play on the Web, though almost never with a      full citation of the source      …      H. L. Mencken (1949) in "The Divine Afflatus," reprinted in      A Mencken Chrestomathy, chapter 25, page 443. Originally      published in the New York Evening Mail, Nov. 16, 1917, and      reprinted in Prejudices: Second Series (1920, pp.155-171). Without the actual document, any quote is questionable.  And I’d be interested in knowing if H.L.M. didn’t make revisions to each reprint.  He published a book of quotations (A New Dictionary of Quotations on Historical Principles from Ancient and Modern Sources, 1942)), and I wouldn’t be surprised if over time he modified his own ‘quotes’, knowing he’d be quoted. For all I know, someone else’s Mencken quotations web page may have it different.

Again, he may have written his "solution" statement in different forms. http://math.jpl.nasa.gov/nr/      This is not a new insight: H. L Mencken (1880-1956) wrote      … there is always a well-known solution to every human      problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.      Prejudices, second series (1920), or equivalently      For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple,      neat, and wrong. First Series http://docsouth.unc.edu/mencken/mencken.html Second Series ????  <— okay where is this online? Third Series http://www.mencken.org/files/text/elliott_mencken_01.htm Having the actual (or copy of) document in hand is the best source for quotations.  As a nice example of this, check the online quotes attributed to ‘The Art of War’ by Sun Tsu.  Then find an actual copy (properly translated if one does not read Chinese).  There are a lot of famous Sun Tsu ‘quotes’ he never wrote. I stand by the JPL quotes (and other sources). At least until all four complete sources are available online. Happy New Year! Michael Lim // "Things seen close-up are seldom as simple and clear-cut as they look from a distance." Rosemary Claire Smith, 2001

Response:

Your doctors sound incomepetant. I don’t think that you can diagnose asthma with an X-ray. Get another doctor! Albuterol is an adrenalin type medicine. Taken over a few years it can cause heart problems. You should be getting a steroid inhaler as well. Avoid theodur medcines unless you are in a life threatening situation. Theodur can make you cranky, irritable and paranoid.

Just about every time I have a chest x-ray, it comes back with the note: ’screen for asthma.’ Albuterol will not cause heart problems over a period of years.  (If you have a reference that states otherwise, please provide it.) "For every complex problem, there is a solution  that is simple, neat, AND wrong."    H. L. Menkin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your doctors sound incomepetant. I don’t think that you can diagnose asthma with an X-ray. Get another doctor! Albuterol is an adrenalin type medicine. Taken over a few years it can cause heart problems. You should be getting a steroid inhaler as well. Avoid theodur medcines unless you are in a life threatening situation. Theodur can make you cranky, irritable and paranoid. Just about every time I have a chest x-ray, it comes back with the note: ’screen for asthma.’

There are findings on x-ray, such as increased lung volumes, that can suggest (but not diagnose) asthma/COPD. Asthma, and less so COPD, can be quite severe and not show up on x-ray so this cannot be used to exclude it. Albuterol will not cause heart problems over a period of years.  (If you have a reference that states otherwise, please provide it.)

Agreed. — CBI, MD

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                    I don’ like to see albuterol’s rep abused.  Better to think of it as  h a r m l e s s  and use it when needed e.g. each and every time you’re short of breath.  This drug will save you from an  a s t h m a   a t t a c k  and  consequent airways remodeling.                    Yes this drug works in a similar fashion to adrenallin.  But it was custom designed, and pretty damn well too,  to eliminate the undesirable effects of rapid heartbeat, raise in blood pressure etc.     My doctor, who has been practicing emergency (trauma) medicine for twenty-six years, tells me "Use it whenever…"             BTW what we’re talking about here is also known as Provental and Ventolin.  "Combivent" contains it. —jack

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           In the olden days apparently theophiline was a mainstay, one of the few nostrums that worked in the treatment of lung disease.             It seems to be coming back in fashion.  My young pulminologist (who was good enough to get me on oxygen long before I "needed" it)  asked me to try it.  For me it is a nightmare drug.  I quit after one pill.                        There are people who use it and swear by it. Theophyline is prescribable only between narrow parameters:  i.e. there is a small window of effectiveness between a dose so high as to be toxic and one so low it doesen’t work at all.            Glad I don’ have to take the stuff in this day and age. —jack

Response:

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, AND wrong."   H. L. Menkin

Colin, sorry I didn’t get to you sooner on this.  I saw someone provide this as the "correct" item, which seems to bear out the intent of the quotation:  having someone volunteer "accuracy" on usenet may not be such a great idea.  Anyway, I have seen this in a bout ten different forms, but the supposedly accurate one is from Henry L. Mencken’s *Prejudices*, Second Series, 1920:  "…there is always a well-known solution to every human problem–neat, plausible, and wrong."  This is found on John Muir’s page of H. L. Mencken quotations at <http://w3.one.net/~muir/hlm/quotes.html.  For all I know, someone else’s Mencken quotations web page may have it different.  I suspect Henry would have liked it that way.  Mencken was a long-time writer and professional curmudgeon for the Baltimore Sun, although many of his writings originally appeared in New York and other cities.  I do not believe he was asthmatic (there, that gets this on topic). By the way, Mencken’s statement which is my favorite (this may be a paraphrase, as I can’t find the original):  "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."

Response:

I quit after one pill.  

Same experience and I just quit. The Doctor asked me if I was still taking it and I said no. He did not comment just like he had never asked the question.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, AND wrong."   H. L. Menkin Colin, sorry I didn’t get to you sooner on this.  I saw someone provide this as the "correct" item, which seems to bear out the intent of the quotation:  having someone volunteer "accuracy" on usenet may not be such a great idea.  Anyway, I have seen this in a bout ten different forms, but the supposedly accurate one is from Henry L. Mencken’s *Prejudices*, Second Series, 1920:  "…there is always a well-known solution to every human problem–neat, plausible, and wrong."  This is found on John Muir’s page of H. L. Mencken quotations at <http://w3.one.net/~muir/hlm/quotes.html.  For all I know, someone else’s Mencken quotations web page may have it different.  I suspect Henry would have liked it that way.  Mencken was a long-time writer and professional curmudgeon for the Baltimore Sun, although many of his writings originally appeared in New York and other cities.  I do not believe he was asthmatic (there, that gets this on topic). By the way, Mencken’s statement which is my favorite (this may be a paraphrase, as I can’t find the original):  "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public."

That’s how I remember it, too.  Here are some others that I enjoy: "In war the heroes always outnumber the soldiers ten to one." "An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup." "The cure for the evils of democracy is more democracy." "Before a man speaks, it is always safe to assume that he is a fool. After he speaks it is seldom necessary to assume." "What men value in this world is not rights but privileges." "A metaphysician is one who, when you remark that twice two makes four, demands to know what you mean by twice, what by two, what by makes, and what by four. For asking such questions metaphysicians are supported in oriental luxury in the universities, and respected as educated and intelligent men."

Response:

This, along with your comments below, was exactly what I was hoping to achieve with the visit. A referral to an allergist or pulmonologist, and a longer-acting/better medication. Got neither, just a lecture on obesity, as if I hadn’t realized I’m overweight (whoops, how  did I miss that?).

I’ve been normal weight for 22 years now, but when I was 50 pounds heavier, my asthma wasn’t any worse than it is now…in fact, my asthma is worse now than 22 years ago when I was 50 pounds heavier. As for a referral, if your original doctor isn’t available, you can go to any specialist you want as long as you pay for it yourself (expensive, but sometimes necessary). Best of luck, Joan

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Steve, you’re absolutely right about the weight, and I am working on it. I do find breathing rather useful though<g, and think dropping some weight would be easier if I could breathe consistently well. I think I was just disgusted that I wasn’t listened to. I learned a big lesson about sticking with one doctor. BTW, I agree about the HEPA filter. We bought one about 2 months ago (hubby has bigtime allergies) for our bedroom and it’s marvelous! Thanks for your thoughts. –Sheila

Response:

You’re very welcomed!   BTW, if you like having one in your bedroom, consider getting a larger capacity one (or two) to take care of the rest of your house. Best. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve, you’re absolutely right about the weight, and I am working on it. I do find breathing rather useful though<g, and think dropping some weight would be easier if I could breathe consistently well. I think I was just disgusted that I wasn’t listened to. I learned a big lesson about sticking with one doctor. BTW, I agree about the HEPA filter. We bought one about 2 months ago (hubby has bigtime allergies) for our bedroom and it’s marvelous! Thanks for your thoughts. –Sheila

Response:

Your doctors sound incomepetant. I don’t think that you can diagnose asthma with an X-ray. Get another doctor! Albuterol is an adrenalin type medicine.  Taken over a few years it can cause heart problems. You should be getting a steroid inhaler as well. Avoid theodur medcines unless you are in a life threatening situation. Theodur can make you cranky, irritable and paranoid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ll try to make this short but I can’t guarantee it. I’d like input from those of you more experienced in the breathing game. After about 1.5 years of breathing challenges and my not quite knowing what was going on, I finally discussed it with my doctor. She Dx’d asthma about a month ago based on my input and listening to my lungs. She gave me an albuterol inhaler. Gosh, does that work great! I seem to need it on a frequent basis, nearly every day. I’ve had two nasty (to me at least) "attacks" in the last month, both of which I believe were related to exposure to excessive amounts of fragrances. I also have a hay fever like component. I was tested for allergies once many years ago and the tests were inconclusive. I was supposed to go back for a followup visit this morning. I received a call from the clinic saying my regular dr was out sick and would I like to see someone else? I said yes, as I am concerned about the "attacks" and think I’m not where I want to be. The dr I saw told me, based on a clear lung Xray, that I couldn’t have asthma since I was never dx’d with it as a kid (only constant hay fever allergies) and I apparently couldn’t produce asthma sx’s to his satisfaction on demand. He basically told me it was all in my head, and my shortness of breath is attributable to obesity – even when I’ve been sitting for an hour or more in a chair, inactive. He couldn’t explain why my regular dr could hear me wheezing, as can my husband, but he can’t. He wanted to test me for anemia (doubt it) or an inactive thyroid (done it already, negative). He did an EKG based on my statements of chest pain, which was normal. So, these are the sx I get: wheezing, coughing, shortness of breath, a feeling either like someone is pushing on my sternum, there is a metal band wrapped around my ribs, or sometimes like someone is digging their fingers up under my ribs and pushing my diaphragm up or something. I have noticeably more air capacity in these situations after using the albuterol inhaler. I am not the sort that likes to go to the doctor; as an example, a few years ago I partially tore my Achilles tendon and actually limped around for 3 weeks before my husband dragged me to the doctor where they promptly casted me for 2 months. I have no reason to want to have asthma (!as if anyone would!). Any thoughts from anyone? To me, if it walks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s at least some sort of bird!!! What should I do from here? And, is it possible that an albuterol inhaler could have a postive effect on someone who doesn’t have asthma? Thanks in advance for any ideas. I’m pretty frustrated at the moment. I really feel like I got the "it’s Friday afternoon, I don’t want to be here, and she’s a hypochondriac fat lady" brushoff. –Sheila

Response:

Thanks for the great information. I’m going to call the clinic back on Monday and ask to see my regular dr when she returns. This is asthma and/or allergies, or some combination thereof; I may not be a doctor but I live in this body and I’m neither stupid nor a hypochondriac. BTW, in response to your question "How old is this guy?",  he is a new doctor serving his residency. I think he was getting input from some other (supervising?) doctor whom I never actually saw. This is at a clinic attached to the University of Washington in Seattle, supposedly one of the better teaching hospitals in the US. I guess there’s always an exception to the rule; I’ve generally had excellent service there – as evidenced by the fact I’ve been going there for almost 30 years. Thanks again for all the excellent input. It helped me put things in perspective.

Response:

In retrospect, I think you’ll agree that asthma like yours is something you need to work with your regular physician on, not someone who fills in.  If such a situation comes up again and you’re not in dire straits, then I suggest you wait for your regular doctor to return.  The only time you’d see a substitute would be if, e.g., all of a sudden the albuterol inhaler was not relieving your symptoms. My situation (you can read my recent posting on my progress elswhere in this newsgroup) is similar to yours in that it didn’t really occur to me or any of my doctors that I had asthma until relatively recently.  My doctor is part of a family practice that includes three other physicians but fortunately allows the patients to see whoever’s available or to request a specific doctor, and I always go for the one doctor now, even if it means waiting a few days. Having said all that, I must offer one note of support for your substitute physician.  Lowering your weight can improve many aspects of your health and is something you might consider as a long-term goal along with finding the best scheme of medication for your asthma.  While it may not directly affect your asthma, it can’t hurt . If you haven’t asked your doctor about one of the newer long-lasting allergy medications, you should.  They’re made a huge difference in the quality of my life.  The usual progression seems to be to try Claritin first, then Zyrtec, then Allegra, stopping when and if you find what you need.  I spent about six months on Claritin, which worked well enough for me, then got some sample of Zyrtec, which worked even better so I’ve switched to that.  It’s the first time in the last 20 years I can live through a day without feeling my nose twitching from irritation, truly a wonderful change in my life. In addition to a long-lasting allergy medication, consider a HEPA filter for your bedroom, your entire home, your office, or all of the above. Again, it makes a huge difference for many of us because it removes the overwhelming majority of the allergans in the air.  I still can’t be in the room when my wife applies her perfume, but nothing is going to change that.  Otherwise, between living in filtered air most of the time, having Zyrtec in me, and having the albuterol inhaler when I need it, my life is actually a whole lot more normal than it had been before. Best of luck to you. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll try to make this short but I can’t guarantee it. I’d like input from those of you more experienced in the breathing game. After about 1.5 years of breathing challenges and my not quite knowing what was going on, I finally discussed it with my doctor. She Dx’d asthma about a month ago based on my input and listening to my lungs. She gave me an albuterol inhaler. Gosh, does that work great! I seem to need it on a frequent basis, nearly every day. I’ve had two nasty (to me at least) "attacks" in the last month, both of which I believe were related to exposure to excessive amounts of fragrances. I also have a hay fever like component. I was tested for allergies once many years ago and the tests were inconclusive. I was supposed to go back for a followup visit this morning. I received a call from the clinic saying my regular dr was out sick and would I like to see someone else? I said yes, as I am concerned about the "attacks" and think I’m not where I want to be. The dr I saw told me, based on a clear lung Xray, that I couldn’t have asthma since I was never dx’d with it as a kid (only constant hay fever allergies) and I apparently couldn’t produce asthma sx’s to his satisfaction on demand. He basically told me it was all in my head, and my shortness of breath is attributable to obesity – even when I’ve been sitting for an hour or more in a chair, inactive. He couldn’t explain why my regular dr could hear me wheezing, as can my husband, but he can’t. He wanted to test me for anemia (doubt it) or an inactive thyroid (done it already, negative). He did an EKG based on my statements of chest pain, which was normal. So, these are the sx I get: wheezing, coughing, shortness of breath, a feeling either like someone is pushing on my sternum, there is a metal band wrapped around my ribs, or sometimes like someone is digging their fingers up under my ribs and pushing my diaphragm up or something. I have noticeably more air capacity in these situations after using the albuterol inhaler. I am not the sort that likes to go to the doctor; as an example, a few years ago I partially tore my Achilles tendon and actually limped around for 3 weeks before my husband dragged me to the doctor where they promptly casted me for 2 months. I have no reason to want to have asthma (!as if anyone would!). Any thoughts from anyone? To me, if it walks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s at least some sort of bird!!! What should I do from here? And, is it possible that an albuterol inhaler could have a postive effect on someone who doesn’t have asthma? Thanks in advance for any ideas. I’m pretty frustrated at the moment. I really feel like I got the "it’s Friday afternoon, I don’t want to be here, and she’s a hypochondriac fat lady" brushoff. –Sheila

Response:

After about 1.5 years of breathing challenges and my not quite knowing what was going on, I finally discussed it with my doctor. She Dx’d asthma about a month ago based on my input and listening to my lungs. She gave me an albuterol inhaler. Gosh, does that work great! I seem to need it on a frequent basis, nearly every day. I’ve had two nasty (to me at least) "attacks" in the last month, both of which I believe were related to exposure to excessive amounts of fragrances. I also have a hay fever like component. I was tested for allergies once many years ago and the tests were inconclusive.

Regarding hay fever symptoms, this is probably rhinitis and can be allergic or nonallergic in nature. It’s important to treat the rhinitis, since it can cause post nasal drip, worsening the asthma; also it’s important to be able to breathe thru the nose, to help filter the air going to the lungs. Often nasal sprays are used, like Nasalcrom [OTC] or steroid [Nasonex, etc]. Antihistamines can help allergic rhinitis, but not nonallergic rhinitis. Decongestants have been used short term, but they have side effects when used long term; one, PPA, has been pulled from the market. [pseudoephedrine, still available, see www.rxlist.com for side effects.]  Saline irrigation of nose may help. http://www.NationalJewish.org/medfacts/allergic_rhinitis.html Allergic & Non-Allergic Rhinitis Regarding your asthma, that can be allergic or nonallergic. Adult onset asthma is commonly nonallergic. A good book on asthma is ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’, Francis Adams, MD. The other items in your post were well covered by Larry, CBI, and others. Ellis

Response:

I have noticeably more air capacity in these situations after using the albuterol inhaler.

This alone is an indication that you have asthma. Thanks in advance for any ideas. I’m pretty frustrated at the moment. I really feel like I got the "it’s Friday afternoon, I don’t want to be here, and she’s a hypochondriac fat lady" brushoff.

Are you seeing any specialists, such as an allergist or pulminologist? If not, one option is to consider seeing one. An asthma evaluation would involve spirometry (that is, blowing into a tube to get lung capacity results). If your doctors aren’t doing this, consider getting another. Also, it may be an option for you to consider medication in addition to albuterol, especially if you’re using it every day. Singulair is an option (but doesn’t work for everyone), and so is pulmicort. Again, a second opinion may be in order. Joan

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I of course don’t know if you have asthma, and I don’t know if you heard precisely what the doctor was trying to say, but if so, that doctor’s statements displayed incredible ignorance. There are no chest X-ray signs that are diagnostic.

That is what I had understood also. The first dr that ordered the chest xray told me she had done it just to make sure there wasn’t anything else going on, like some tumor or other condition.  I had wondered whether I had misunderstood. Apparently not. Thanks for the info. And, I suppose it’s possible that toward the end of the visit I wasn’t hearing him too well. After 45 minutes of listening to him rather than him listening to me, I was agreeing with whatever he said just to get the h*ll out of there because he was wasting my time.

Response:

I have noticeably more air capacity in these situations after using the albuterol inhaler. This alone is an indication that you have asthma.

I was wondering whether that was the case. It didn’t make sense to me that the med could do something for a condition that didn’t exist. Are you seeing any specialists, such as an allergist or pulminologist? If not, one option is to consider seeing one. An asthma evaluation would involve spirometry (that is, blowing into a tube to get lung capacity results). If your doctors aren’t doing this, consider getting another.

This, along with your comments below, was exactly what I was hoping to achieve with the visit. A referral to an allergist or pulmonologist, and a longer-acting/better medication. Got neither, just a lecture on obesity, as if I hadn’t realized I’m overweight (whoops, how  did I miss that?). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Also, it may be an option for you to consider medication in addition to albuterol, especially if you’re using it every day. Singulair is an option (but doesn’t work for everyone), and so is pulmicort. Again, a second opinion may be in order. Joan

Response:

I’ll try to make this short but I can’t guarantee it. I’d like input from those of you more experienced in the breathing game. After about 1.5 years of breathing challenges and my not quite knowing what was going on, I finally discussed it with my doctor. She Dx’d asthma about a month ago based on my input and listening to my lungs.

It would also be useful to get pulmonary function studies. Not all that wheezes is asthma (but alot of it is). She gave me an albuterol inhaler. Gosh, does that work great!

This is suggestive, but not conclusive proof, of asthma. I seem to need it on a frequent basis, nearly every day. I’ve had two nasty (to me at least) "attacks" in the last month, both of which I believe were related to exposure to excessive amounts of fragrances.

This would suggest that preventative meds, like inhaled steroids, should be added. I also have a hay fever like component. I was tested for allergies once many years ago and the tests were inconclusive.

The history of allergies (or family history) would make asthma a more likely diagnosis. The dr I saw told me, based on a clear lung Xray,

The x-ray is taken to rule out other problems. It is expected to be normal in asthma. that I couldn’t have asthma since I was never dx’d with it as a kid (only constant hay fever

allergies) Most cases are diagnosed in adulthood. The rate of diagnosis PER YEAR is higher in childhood but the 60 or so years of adulthood then outpace the 20 or so years of childhood in terms of numbers of diagnoses. and I apparently couldn’t produce asthma sx’s to his satisfaction on demand.

Asthma is, by definition, a reversible condition. Normal exams, even normal PFT testing, when symtpoms are not present do not rule it out. Normal testing in the presence of symptoms or a normal challenge test would suggest that asthma is not the problem. He basically told me it was all in my head, and my shortness of breath is attributable to obesity – even when I’ve been sitting for an hour or more in a chair, inactive. He couldn’t explain why my regular dr could hear me wheezing, as can my husband, but he can’t.

How old is this guy? He seems to be on the cutting edge of 1950’s medicine. He wanted to test me for anemia (doubt it) or an inactive thyroid (done it already, negative).

Both of which may cause shortness of breath and fatigue bit not wheezing. He did an EKG based on my statements of chest pain, which was normal.

The EKG really would not tell him anything useful about complaints of shortness of breath or long standing chest pains (it is great for acute chest pain). If he really was serious about investigating a cardiac cause of your symptoms he really needed to do a stress test and/or some measure of cardiac function. I’m not suggesting that you need this. So, these are the sx I get: wheezing, coughing, shortness of breath, a feeling either like someone is pushing on my sternum, there is a metal band wrapped around my ribs, or sometimes like someone is digging their fingers up under my ribs and pushing my diaphragm up or something. I have noticeably more air capacity in these situations after using the albuterol inhaler.

All of this is classic for asthma and a few other things. You have told us several things that make asthma the most likely diagnosis. Abnormal PFT’s would help to settle the issue for good. What should I do from here? And, is it possible that an albuterol inhaler could have a postive effect on someone who doesn’t have asthma?

It is possible. It sounds like your regular doc is on the right track and I would go back to see her for further management. — CBI, MD

Response:

The dr I saw told me, based on a clear lung Xray, that I couldn’t have asthma since I was never dx’d with it as a kid (only constant hay fever allergies) and I apparently couldn’t produce asthma sx’s to his satisfaction on demand. He

I of course don’t know if you have asthma, and I don’t know if you heard precisely what the doctor was trying to say, but if so, that doctor’s statements displayed incredible ignorance. There are no chest X-ray signs that are diagnostic. The closest you might get to such would be the observation of hyperinflation, but this is neither necessary or exclusively diagnostic of asthma. Asthma is, by definition, a reversible condition, and no diagnostic statement may be made at a time when wheezing is not apparent. This is one of the reasons for performing detailed pulmonary function tests, and the reason for the existance of the methacholine challenge test.

Response:

I’ll try to make this short but I can’t guarantee it. I’d like input from those of you more experienced in the breathing game. After about 1.5 years of breathing challenges and my not quite knowing what was going on, I finally discussed it with my doctor. She Dx’d asthma about a month ago based on my input and listening to my lungs. She gave me an albuterol inhaler. Gosh, does that work great! I seem to need it on a frequent basis, nearly every day. I’ve had two nasty (to me at least) "attacks" in the last month, both of which I believe were related to exposure to excessive amounts of fragrances. I also have a hay fever like component. I was tested for allergies once many years ago and the tests were inconclusive. I was supposed to go back for a followup visit this morning. I received a call from the clinic saying my regular dr was out sick and would I like to see someone else? I said yes, as I am concerned about the "attacks" and think I’m not where I want to be. The dr I saw told me, based on a clear lung Xray, that I couldn’t have asthma since I was never dx’d with it as a kid (only constant hay fever allergies) and I apparently couldn’t produce asthma sx’s to his satisfaction on demand. He basically told me it was all in my head, and my shortness of breath is attributable to obesity – even when I’ve been sitting for an hour or more in a chair, inactive. He couldn’t explain why my regular dr could hear me wheezing, as can my husband, but he can’t. He wanted to test me for anemia (doubt it) or an inactive thyroid (done it already, negative). He did an EKG based on my statements of chest pain, which was normal. So, these are the sx I get: wheezing, coughing, shortness of breath, a feeling either like someone is pushing on my sternum, there is a metal band wrapped around my ribs, or sometimes like someone is digging their fingers up under my ribs and pushing my diaphragm up or something. I have noticeably more air capacity in these situations after using the albuterol inhaler. I am not the sort that likes to go to the doctor; as an example, a few years ago I partially tore my Achilles tendon and actually limped around for 3 weeks before my husband dragged me to the doctor where they promptly casted me for 2 months. I have no reason to want to have asthma (!as if anyone would!). Any thoughts from anyone? To me, if it walks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s at least some sort of bird!!! What should I do from here? And, is it possible that an albuterol inhaler could have a postive effect on someone who doesn’t have asthma? Thanks in advance for any ideas. I’m pretty frustrated at the moment. I really feel like I got the "it’s Friday afternoon, I don’t want to be here, and she’s a hypochondriac fat lady" brushoff. –Sheila

Response:

Question:

I recall how you refused to read the references that I’ve posted in the past,  as I demonstrated on many occasions.  On one occasion  I demonstrated that in spite of commenting on the reference, you had, in fact, not even read the first line.

We have.  And your response when we point out that the articles do not prove your case has been to come back six months later quoting the same articles and making the same claims. You Are A Fraud. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

Response:

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see    the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]] OK, so how about your asthmatic patients  try hyperventilating and see if they  get an asthma attack? Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer

They don’t. Larry Preuss Physician lpreussprovide.net

Response:

The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma

        FAQ Peter Kolb Royal Perth Hospital http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22FAQ+peter+kolb%22&hl=en&scoring… wrote give son chronic hyperventilation: Alex was a very angry little kid and had a dreadful temper. One night I put him into the Bathroom all night. I removed toilet rolls, dangerous objects, anything he could destroy and just left him in there kicking at the door and screaming. We never had a problem with him again after that.

Response:

G’day tiny petey. http://www.rph.wa.gov.au/patient/index.html MAKING A COMPLAINT You can also write to Cheryl at the following address:- Cheryl Miller Manager, Customer Services Department Royal Perth Hospital GPO Box X2213 Perth Western Australia 6847 http://www.rph.wa.gov.au/contacts.html ROYAL PERTH HOSPITAL INTERNET MAILING ADDRESSES Medical Physics Department of Medical Physics Bioengineering Division Rehabilitation Medicine Cardiology Internal Medicine Occupational Health Nanotech Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net

Response:

OK, so how about your asthmatic patients  try hyperventilating and see if they  get an asthma attack?

Give just like you son wrote give son chronic hyperventilation: Alex was a very angry little kid and had a dreadful temper. One night I put him into the Bathroom all night. I removed toilet rolls, dangerous objects, anything he could destroy and just left him in there kicking at the door and screaming. We never had a problem with him again after that.         FAQ Peter Kolb Royal Perth Hospital http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22FAQ+peter+kolb%22&hl=en&scoring… elm=YPS8ZU2Y36868.0508564815%40frog.nyarlatheotep.org

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma Actually, the site does not.  Mr. Kolb knows that asthma and hyperventilation syndrome are two different diseases but uses false claims, misrepresented research and outright lies to promote (read ’sell’) materials for his breathing technique. The site does does discuss chronic hyperventilation and asthma. The fact that you claim it does not indicates that you havn’t even bothered reading it.

Because Buteyko refuses to admit that the condition exists and is different from asthma. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma Actually, the site does not.  Mr. Kolb knows that asthma and hyperventilation syndrome are two different diseases but uses false claims, misrepresented research and outright lies to promote (read ’sell’) materials for his breathing technique. The site does does discuss chronic hyperventilation and asthma. The fact that you claim it does not indicates that you havn’t even bothered reading it.

The site discusses a fictitous condition, "chronic hyperventilation syndrome", which has no relation to the real entity, "hyperventilation syndrome". Mr. Kolb is aware of the differences between the two yet insists on listing references for the later and claims they support the existence of the former. — CBI, MD

Response:

The site discusses a fictitous condition, "chronic hyperventilation syndrome", which has no relation to the real entity, "hyperventilation syndrome". Mr. Kolb is aware of the differences between the two yet insists on listing references for the later and claims they support the existence of the former. CBI, MD

Ellis has  a really good handle on this.  Perhaps I could quote him from within this thread: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You might have hyperventilation syndrome, possibly co-existing with asthma. See: http://www.remcomp.com/asmanet/edit9702.html Hyperventilation Syndrome & Asthma "Chronic hyperventilation syndrome is characterized by a large variety of somatic symptoms induced by physiologically inappropriate hyperventilation and usually reproduced in whole or in part by voluntary hyperventilation. The incidence of this syndrome in general practice is estimated to be within 6 and 10%. In respirology, it is a frequent condition particularly associated with asthma-like symptoms. The various clinical manifestations often lead the subjects to consult several physicians with no success in solving the problems. The symptoms are however real and not imaginary as they are related to the biochemical and physiological changes associated with the fall in PaCO2. The respiratory symptoms associated with this syndrome include shortness of breath, usually described as "air hunger" – a need to take a deep, satisfying breath, accompanied by a feeling of difficulty in inflating the lungs-, a small dry cough, the impression of a tickle in the throat. Most hyperventilators tend to sigh or yawn frequently and typically adopt a pattern of thoracic instead of diaphragmatic breathing." Ellis

I can’nt understand, CBI,  how someone who has made it through medical school can have so much difficulty with this concept.  It really isn’t that hard. I recall how you refused to read the references that I’ve posted in the past,  as I demonstrated on many occasions.  On one occasion  I demonstrated that in spite of commenting on the reference, you had, in fact, not even read the first line. Those who bother to investigate Buteyko will understand that it is not a treatment for asthma,  but a breathing technique that physiologically restores CO2 to normal values in those who have haibtuated to hyperventilation.  The fact that asthma disappears when you undertake this therapy  (as do all the other symptoms of chronic hyperventilation,)  should tell us that the hyerventilation theory of asthma should be taken seriously. As Ellis tells us in his quote,  the test for this disorder is to deliberately hyperventilate.  If it intensifies or provokes the symtoms, then it is quite clear that hyperventilation is the cause. OK, so how about your asthmatic patients  try hyperventilating and see if they  get an asthma attack? Peter Kolb Biomedical Engineer Free information provided by grateful ex-asthmatics     http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:imacdon%40netcomuk.co.uk&hl=… ing=d&filter=0 AKA btinternet free email posts Crude setup but still:  Old wine, new bottle. 1999: "I agree that <<snipped should not be claimed as a cure for asthma and have said so in previous posts to this group."

The entire post is as follows: As I stated before…..the placebo effect has been well studied and documented. Your asthma has not been lessened, nor have the physiological changes

which have taken place been reversed by any form of breathing exercises. A placebo effect that has lasted over 3 years resulting in a big reduction in drugs I take for asthma sounds pretty good in any language. The problem i have with them is they tout their program as a cure, a reliever or as some other form of beneficial treatment when in fact it has no documented ability to alter in any manner the physiological consequences associated with airway hyper-responsiveness.  Personally I would not bet my life on a scientifically unsound claim from anyone……but what the heck…..they are your lungs, aren’t they?

I agree that Buteyko should not be claimed as a cure for asthma and have said so in previous posts to this group. They are my lungs, and they cause me less problems now. They are also my bones, and within six months of starting Buteyko I stopped taking the oral steroids I was taking daily for over 10 years prior to that. Regards Iain MacDonald

Response:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:imacdon%40netcomuk.co.uk&hl=… AKA btinternet free email posts

Crude setup but still:  Old wine, new bottle. "I agree that <<snipped should not be claimed as a cure for asthma and have said so in previous posts to this group." The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma

Before viewing the pkolb site, which claims to have the cure for (and is at variance with the policy of the hospital he is a tech in), read about the owner and references at: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Villa/6249/peterkolbRPRH.html // "Getting there may or may not be half the fun…." James Gunn // Michael Lim

Response:

The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma Actually, the site does not.  Mr. Kolb knows that asthma and hyperventilation syndrome are two different diseases but uses false claims, misrepresented research and outright lies to promote (read ’sell’) materials for his breathing technique.

The site does does discuss chronic hyperventilation and asthma. The fact that you claim it does not indicates that you havn’t even bothered reading it. Buteyko theory was shot down in flames 40 years ago.  And since then there have been vast new discoveries about asthma – which the Buteyko salesmen ignore completely. There was a discussion here where I pointed out that real science and real medicine are willing to discard obsolete and incorrect ideas. Kolb and his ilk are an example of the biggest danger of ‘alternative medicine’ the absolute refusal to discard something that does not work.

I amended my breathing pattern (the entirety of the Buteyko method) five years ago. I no longer use bronchodilators and no longer take oral steroids. It worked for me. And others claim it works for them. Regards Iain MacDonald

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tonight is the first night I’ve read this newsgroup, and this post hit me hard – it described the same symptoms:  shortness of breath, needing to yawn to get a deep breath.  Sometimes it’s not too bad, other times it’s awful.  It seems that if I’m thinking about it I realize it, but if I’m concentrating on something else, it does not interrupt my concentration, which made me think it was in my head for the past 2 years.  My peak flow is good, according to the doctor, but the shortness of breath worries me.  I’m only 30, so I’m hoping it’s not anything major like emphesema.  I don’t smoke, use to only at bars when out with friends, but even then wasn’t much.  The albuterol helps right after I take it but doesn’t last the 4 to 6 hours until the next dose. But I have gone months between having such bad case of the shortness of breath that I felt I need the albuterol. Now I’m reading up on the hyperventilation stuff and that sounds even more like it.  I do have another doctor appointment next month for the symptoms I’m having, and I think I’ll gather as much info about this other possibility before I go.  If anyone has really good links, I would really appreciate it.  I’m at the ASMANET site now, so anything besides that. Thanks! Linda

The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma Regards Iain MacDonald  http://www.wt.com.au/~pkolb/buteyko.htm

Response:

The undernoted site discusses chronic hyperventilation and asthma

Actually, the site does not.  Mr. Kolb knows that asthma and hyperventilation syndrome are two different diseases but uses false claims, misrepresented research and outright lies to promote (read ’sell’) materials for his breathing technique. Buteyko theory was shot down in flames 40 years ago.  And since then there have been vast new discoveries about asthma – which the Buteyko salesmen ignore completely. There was a discussion here where I pointed out that real science and real medicine are willing to discard obsolete and incorrect ideas. Kolb and his ilk are an example of the biggest danger of ‘alternative medicine’ the absolute refusal to discard something that does not work. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tonight is the first night I’ve read this newsgroup, and this post hit me hard – it described the same symptoms:  shortness of breath, needing to yawn to get a deep breath.  Sometimes it’s not too bad, other times it’s awful.  It seems that if I’m thinking about it I realize it, but if I’m concentrating on something else, it does not interrupt my concentration, which made me think it was in my head for the past 2 years.  My peak flow is good, according to the doctor, but the shortness of breath worries me.  I’m only 30, so I’m hoping it’s not anything major like emphesema.  I don’t smoke, use to only at bars when out with friends, but even then wasn’t much.  The albuterol helps right after I take it but doesn’t last the 4 to 6 hours until the next dose. But I have gone months between having such bad case of the shortness of breath that I felt I need the albuterol. Now I’m reading up on the hyperventilation stuff and that sounds even more like it.  I do have another doctor appointment next month for the symptoms I’m having, and I think I’ll gather as much info about this other possibility before I go.  If anyone has really good links, I would really appreciate it.  I’m at the ASMANET site now, so anything besides that. Thanks! Linda

Possibly related link: http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/library/readroom/oc4154.htm Asthma and Panic Disorder  1-97 JAMA Excerpt: "Results: Clusters of symptoms reflecting panic-fear and  hyperventilation-hypocapnia were more strongly endorsed by  subjects with panic disorder, whereas airway obstruction symptom  clusters were more strongly descriptive of asthma attacks  (all P<.05). Three symptoms differentiated the groups with  sensitivity greater than 0.90 and specificity greater than 0.70:  wheezing, mucous congestion, and coughing, all being present  significantly more among asthma attacks than panic attacks.  Conclusion: Knowledge of what symptoms discriminate asthma attacks  from panic attacks may help physicians identify each type of attack  in individuals who experience both. "               Arch Fam Med. 1997;6:20-23 Ellis

Response:

COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) is also known as emphysema. Can’t this also apply to Asthma?

Although there is some overlap between asthma and COPD, the airways obstruction in asthma is reversible but not in COPD. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

Response:

Tonight is the first night I’ve read this newsgroup, and this post hit me hard – it described the same symptoms:  shortness of breath, needing to yawn to get a deep breath.  Sometimes it’s not too bad, other times it’s awful.  It seems that if I’m thinking about it I realize it, but if I’m concentrating on something else, it does not interrupt my concentration, which made me think it was in my head for the past 2 years.  My peak flow is good, according to the doctor, but the shortness of breath worries me.  I’m only 30, so I’m hoping it’s not anything major like emphesema.  I don’t smoke, use to only at bars when out with friends, but even then wasn’t much.  The albuterol helps right after I take it but doesn’t last the 4 to 6 hours until the next dose. But I have gone months between having such bad case of the shortness of breath that I felt I need the albuterol. Now I’m reading up on the hyperventilation stuff and that sounds even more like it.  I do have another doctor appointment next month for the symptoms I’m having, and I think I’ll gather as much info about this other possibility before I go.  If anyone has really good links, I would really appreciate it.  I’m at the ASMANET site now, so anything besides that. Thanks! Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I’m new to this group, just reading tonight for the first time.  I had asthma a kid, sort of went away when I reached 20 or so, I’m 43 now.  And, my asthma is returning. I was reading those posts from James in Scotland and it sounds like what I have now.  When I was younger, I had real wheezing, I could hear it and feel it, and an inhaler would clear it up.  Now it’s weird.  I feel breathless, I don’t hear wheezing, and I can’t tell if I’m hyperventilating or short of breath or what. I have this urge to deeply inhale, sort of like a big sigh.  And sometimes I have the yawning thing, where it feels like I have to get a big yawn.  

Response:

Colette: I’ve noticed people mentioning COPD but I don’t know what it is, can anyone say how the symtoms differ from asthma? And, what is COPD? COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) is also known as emphysema.

COPD also equated to Chronic Bronchitis, which can lead to emphysema. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/copdchronicobstructivepulmonarydis… http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/lung/other/copd/copd_toc.htm What Is Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease? http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/lung/other/copd/what_is.htm What Are Chronic Bronchitis and Emphysema? http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/lung/other/copd/bronemph.htm // "Oh, I’m an eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth kind of guy, Ambassador." "So you support a system that would leave everyone blind and toothless?" "Not everyone. Just the bad guys." Michael A. Garibaldi, Ambassador Delenn

Response:

As Colette suggested, a lung function test [spirometry] should be performed, to properly diagnose asthma & other lung disorders. Many asthma doctors have spirometers in their office for this purpose; or you might be sent to a pulmonary lung function lab. Or referred to a pulmonologist [chest doctor]. Lung function is measured before and after administering a bronchodilator inhaler; a significant improvement in lung function postbronchodilator tends to indicate asthma, since asthma is a reversible disease. Another thing to try is get a peak flow meter and monitor your peak flow at home. If it fluctuates a lot [like 20%], getting worse at night, it tends to indicate asthma. Also you can check if your breathing difficulties coincide with low peak flows. You might have hyperventilation syndrome, possibly co-existing with asthma. See: http://www.remcomp.com/asmanet/edit9702.html  Hyperventilation Syndrome & Asthma "Chronic hyperventilation syndrome is characterized by a large variety of somatic symptoms induced by physiologically inappropriate hyperventilation and usually reproduced in whole or in part by voluntary hyperventilation. The incidence of this syndrome in general practice is estimated to be within 6 and 10%. In respirology, it is a frequent condition particularly associated with asthma-like symptoms. The various clinical manifestations often lead the subjects to consult several physicians with no success in solving the problems. The symptoms are however real and not imaginary as they are related to the biochemical and physiological changes associated  with the fall in PaCO2. The respiratory symptoms associated with this syndrome include shortness of breath, usually described as "air hunger" – a need to take a deep, satisfying breath, accompanied by a feeling of difficulty in inflating the lungs-, a small dry cough, the impression of a tickle in the throat. Most hyperventilators tend to sigh or yawn frequently and typically adopt a pattern of thoracic instead of diaphragmatic breathing." Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to this group, just reading tonight for the first time.  I had asthma a kid, sort of went away when I reached 20 or so, I’m 43 now.  And, my asthma is returning. I was reading those posts from James in Scotland and it sounds like what I have now.  When I was younger, I had real wheezing, I could hear it and feel it, and an inhaler would clear it up.  Now it’s weird.  I feel breathless, I don’t hear wheezing, and I can’t tell if I’m hyperventilating or short of breath or what. I have this urge to deeply inhale, sort of like a big sigh.  And sometimes I have the yawning thing, where it feels like I have to get a big yawn.  I think it’s partially psychological, but I do get some relief from a puff of albuterol, most of the time.  Right now I’m taking 2 puffs of flovent and 2 puffs of serevent twice a day.  I feel like my pulse is up, I’m a little light headed some of the time. I’m not really sure what to do at this point, go back to my doctor?  Anyone else have symtoms like this? Any ideas?  I am kind of a nervous type but don’t know how much this has to do with it. Thanks Julien

Response:

Colette: I’ve noticed people mentioning COPD but I don’t know what it is, can anyone say how the symtoms differ from asthma? And, what is COPD?

COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) is also known as emphysema. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

Response:

COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) is also known as emphysema.

Can’t this also apply to Asthma?

Response:

COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) is also known as emphysema. Can’t this also apply to Asthma?

Since I’m 43, am I a little young for emphysema? Or, since I’ve had asthma since youth, could I have it?  I’m a non-smoker, I guess that goes without saying. — If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate.

Response:

Colette: I’ve noticed people mentioning COPD but I don’t know what it is, can anyone say how the symtoms differ from asthma? And, what is COPD? Might be an idea for you to have a spirometry test Julien just to make sure it is asthma or COPD! Colette

  I’m new to this group, just reading tonight for the first time.  I had – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – asthma a kid, sort of went away when I reached 20 or so, I’m 43 now.  And, my asthma is returning. I was reading those posts from James in Scotland and it sounds like what I have now.  When I was younger, I had real wheezing, I could hear it and feel it, and an inhaler would clear it up.  Now it’s weird.  I feel breathless, I don’t hear wheezing, and I can’t tell if I’m hyperventilating or short of breath or what. I have this urge to deeply inhale, sort of like a big sigh.  And sometimes I have the yawning thing, where it feels like I have to get a big yawn.  I think it’s partially psychological, but I do get some relief from a puff of albuterol, most of the time.  Right now I’m taking 2 puffs of flovent and 2 puffs of serevent twice a day.  I feel like my pulse is up, I’m a little light headed some of the time. I’m not really sure what to do at this point, go back to my doctor?  Anyone else have symtoms like this? Any ideas?  I am kind of a nervous type but don’t know how much this has to do with it.

Response:

Hi, I’m new to this group, just reading tonight for the first time.  I had asthma a kid, sort of went away when I reached 20 or so, I’m 43 now.  And, my asthma is returning I was reading those posts from James in Scotland and it sounds like what I have now.  When I was younger, I had real wheezing, I could hear it and feel it, and an inhaler would clear it up.  Now it’s weird.  I feel breathless, I don’t hear wheezing, and I can’t tell if I’m hyperventilating or short of breath or what. I have this urge to deeply inhale, sort of like a big sigh.  And sometimes I have the yawning thing, where it feels like I have to get a big yawn.  I think it’s partially psychological, but I do get some relief from a puff of albuterol, most of the time.  Right now I’m taking 2 puffs of flovent and 2 puffs of serevent twice a day.  I feel like my pulse is up, I’m a little light headed some of the time. I’m not really sure what to do at this point, go back to my doctor?  Anyone else have symtoms like this? Any ideas?  I am kind of a nervous type but don’t know how much this has to do with it.

Ask your doctor to screen you for a hyperventilation disorder.  The symptoms mimic asthma and even when you know exactly what to look for it is hard to tell the difference. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

Response:

Might be an idea for you to have a spirometry test Julien just to make sure it is asthma or COPD! Colette

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m new to this group, just reading tonight for the first time.  I had asthma a kid, sort of went away when I reached 20 or so, I’m 43 now.  And, my asthma is returning. I was reading those posts from James in Scotland and it sounds like what I have now.  When I was younger, I had real wheezing, I could hear it and feel it, and an inhaler would clear it up.  Now it’s weird.  I feel breathless, I don’t hear wheezing, and I can’t tell if I’m hyperventilating or short of breath or what. I have this urge to deeply inhale, sort of like a big sigh.  And sometimes I have the yawning thing, where it feels like I have to get a big yawn.  I think it’s partially psychological, but I do get some relief from a puff of albuterol, most of the time.  Right now I’m taking 2 puffs of flovent and 2 puffs of serevent twice a day.  I feel like my pulse is up, I’m a little light headed some of the time. I’m not really sure what to do at this point, go back to my doctor?  Anyone else have symtoms like this? Any ideas?  I am kind of a nervous type but don’t know how much this has to do with it. Thanks Julien

Response:

Hi, I’m new to this group, just reading tonight for the first time.  I had asthma a kid, sort of went away when I reached 20 or so, I’m 43 now.  And, my asthma is returning. I was reading those posts from James in Scotland and it sounds like what I have now.  When I was younger, I had real wheezing, I could hear it and feel it, and an inhaler would clear it up.  Now it’s weird.  I feel breathless, I don’t hear wheezing, and I can’t tell if I’m hyperventilating or short of breath or what. I have this urge to deeply inhale, sort of like a big sigh.  And sometimes I have the yawning thing, where it feels like I have to get a big yawn.  I think it’s partially psychological, but I do get some relief from a puff of albuterol, most of the time.  Right now I’m taking 2 puffs of flovent and 2 puffs of serevent twice a day.  I feel like my pulse is up, I’m a little light headed some of the time. I’m not really sure what to do at this point, go back to my doctor?  Anyone else have symtoms like this? Any ideas?  I am kind of a nervous type but don’t know how much this has to do with it. Thanks Julien

Response:

Question:

Saw my doctor today and discussed my inhalers.  She wants me to have a pulomary workup and will make the appointment. What does this involve? Glo

Response:

Saw my doctor today and discussed my inhalers.  She wants me to have a pulomary workup and will make the appointment. What does this involve? Glo

Tests are typically administered in a pulmonary function test lab by a respiratory therapist. [An asthma doctor may administer spirometry tests in his office] There are several possible tests. The one for asthma involves testing lung function before and after administering a bronchodilator inhaler [like albuterol]; a significant improvement in lung function post-bronchodilator tends to support an asthma diagnosis, since asthma is a reversible disease. Typically you are not supposed to use your asthma drugs within 12 hours of the test. In difficult to diagnose asthma cases, a methacholine challenge test may be administered. Lung function measured before and after administering methacholine inhalant at various levels, looking for a 20% drop in lung function; if this is achieved it indicates the possibility of asthma; if not rules it out. Links: http://coloradohealthnet.org/asthma/asthma_comp1.html  Objective Measures of Lung Function http://asthma.about.com/health/asthma/library/blank1.htm   Pulmonary Testing Articles [commercial site] http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinRef/FPHandbook/Chapter03/06-3.html   PULMONARY FUNCTION TESTS (Uiowa) http://www.priory.com/med/spiromet.htm  Spirometry Q & A Ellis

Response:

Saw my doctor today and discussed my inhalers.  She wants me to have a pulomary workup and will make the appointment. What does this involve?

Basically you’re going to breathe out very hard into a tube, and a computer will measure your respiratory capacity. Don’t use any bronchodilators prior to the test, because they want to see how you respond without rescue medication. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   "I guess I could have paid a little closer attention when I was in English class, but it all worked out OK.  I’m gainfully employed."      – President George W. Bush

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Question:

Dear Genenut: I found an article that might interest you: How do people get asthma and is there a genetic connection? http://www.healthtalk.com/aen/toc/define/know/03.html More articles on types of asthma, symptoms of asthma found at this site where medical experts answer questions about asthma.  I hope this helps (this is my favorite site and no one seems to know it exists)  : ) http://www.healthtalk.com/aen/toc/define/index.htm Good Luck, Chia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a couple of quick questions about asthma. I have a VERY strong family history of asthma (every female member of the family for the last 2 generations has it in one form or another on both sides of the family including mother, grandmother, sister, and both aunts). I had some problems breathing about 1 year ago (winter seems to trigger it more than summer) and while the Jr dint diagnose asthma, I did get 2 neb treatments in the RE and a script for an inhaler to use PR and about 10 days of prednisone. While I was there my o2 sat was like 98-99 and the RN heard no wheezes. Is it possible to have asthma and not wheeze and have good o2 sat most of the time I am having more problems this winter and am going to see my family Jr about it, but I want to have some idea of what to expect/ask about before I go in. And I dont want to steer myself or the dr down the wrong road if its just pure luck that I have the symptons of asthma and not the problem. to go with the above info, I am ALWAYS congested and I have a non productive (most of the time) cough that feels like I’m trying to clear my throat with no luck. Laughing does exacerbate it, and cold air, mold, and dust make it seem like I;m breathing through water. If this is NOT asthma, what are some good candidates for an answer?  My primary symptoms are , constant congestion, fatigue, coughing/trouble breathing after cold air, mold/dust exposure, or lots of talking/exercising at the same time. The albuterol inhaler seems to work somewhat, but not completely. Thanks in advance. Genenut (remove the null in the addy to respond)

Response:

I have a couple of quick questions about asthma. I have a VERY strong family history of asthma (every female member of the family for the last 2 generations has it in one form or another on both sides of the family including mother, grandmother, sister, and both aunts). I had some problems breathing about 1 year ago (winter seems to trigger it more than summer) and while the Jr dint diagnose asthma, I did get 2 neb treatments in the RE and a script for an inhaler to use PR and about 10 days of prednisone. While I was there my o2 sat was like 98-99 and the RN heard no wheezes. Is it possible to have asthma and not wheeze and have good o2 sat most of the time I am having more problems this winter and am going to see my family Jr about it, but I want to have some idea of what to expect/ask about before I go in. And I dont want to steer myself or the dr down the wrong road if its just pure luck that I have the symptons of asthma and not the problem. to go with the above info, I am ALWAYS congested and I have a non productive (most of the time) cough that feels like I’m trying to clear my throat with no luck. Laughing does exacerbate it, and cold air, mold, and dust make it seem like I;m breathing through water. If this is NOT asthma, what are some good candidates for an answer?  My primary symptoms are , constant congestion, fatigue, coughing/trouble breathing after cold air, mold/dust exposure, or lots of talking/exercising at the same time. The albuterol inhaler seems to work somewhat, but not completely. Thanks in advance. Genenut (remove the null in the addy to respond)

Response:

I have a couple of quick questions about asthma. I have a VERY strong family history of asthma (every female member of the family for the last 2 generations has it in one form or another on both sides of the family including mother, grandmother, sister, and both aunts). I had some problems breathing about 1 year ago (winter seems to trigger it more than summer) and while the Jr dint diagnose asthma, I did get 2 neb treatments in the RE and a script for an inhaler to use PR and about 10 days of prednisone. While I was there my o2 sat was like 98-99 and the RN heard no wheezes. Is it possible to have asthma and not wheeze and have good o2 sat most of the time

Wheezing is not a necessary symptom of asthma. A proper diagnosis of asthma involves lung function tests. Lung function is tested with a spirometer, then bronchodilator administered, then lung function retested. A significant improvement post bronchodilator suggests asthma. I am having more problems this winter and am going to see my family Jr about it, but I want to have some idea of what to expect/ask about before I go in. And I dont want to steer myself or the dr down the wrong road if its just pure luck that I have the symptons of asthma and not the problem. to go with the above info, I am ALWAYS congested and I have a non productive (most of the time) cough that feels like I’m trying to clear my throat with no luck. Laughing does exacerbate it, and cold air, mold, and dust make it seem like I;m breathing through water.

Sounds like cough variant asthma; coughing instead of wheezing. Often exacerbated by postnasal drip from sinusitis. A proper diagnosis may need a methacholine challenge test; lung function measured before and after administering methacholine; a 20% drop in lung function post methacholine suggests asthma. If you have sinusitis, it needs to be treated to treat the asthma. Steroid nasal sprays, warm saline nasal washes, decongestants, if allergic antihistamines–also minimize exposure to allergens. To learn more about asthma etc. I suggest reading the book ‘The Asthma Sourcebook’ by Francis Adams, MD a pulmonologist specializing in asthma order at your bookstore or online at amazon.com Ellis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this is NOT asthma, what are some good candidates for an answer?  My primary symptoms are , constant congestion, fatigue, coughing/trouble breathing after cold air, mold/dust exposure, or lots of talking/exercising at the same time. The albuterol inhaler seems to work somewhat, but not completely. Thanks in advance. Genenut (remove the null in the addy to respond)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a couple of quick questions about asthma. I have a VERY strong family history of asthma (every female member of the family for the last 2 generations has it in one form or another on both sides of the family including mother, grandmother, sister, and both aunts). I had some problems breathing about 1 year ago (winter seems to trigger it more than summer) and while the Jr dint diagnose asthma, I did get 2 neb treatments in the RE and a script for an inhaler to use PR and about 10 days of prednisone. While I was there my o2 sat was like 98-99 and the RN heard no wheezes. Is it possible to have asthma and not wheeze and have good o2 sat most of the time I am having more problems this winter and am going to see my family Jr about it, but I want to have some idea of what to expect/ask about before I go in. And I dont want to steer myself or the dr down the wrong road if its just pure luck that I have the symptons of asthma and not the problem. to go with the above info, I am ALWAYS congested and I have a non productive (most of the time) cough that feels like I’m trying to clear my throat with no luck. Laughing does exacerbate it, and cold air, mold, and dust make it seem like I;m breathing through water. If this is NOT asthma, what are some good candidates for an answer?  My primary symptoms are , constant congestion, fatigue, coughing/trouble breathing after cold air, mold/dust exposure, or lots of talking/exercising at the same time. The albuterol inhaler seems to work somewhat, but not completely. Thanks in advance. Genenut (remove the null in the addy to respond)

Response:

Question:

Chiop Actually most of my PAs occur when I am sleeping.  I never had PAs until last summer when I began waking unable to breath.  After two months of being told I had anxiety I tested positive for asthma.  Although I no longer have bronchial spasms, I do have PA and anxiety. I often wonder if in fact the asthma breathing tests are really reliable.  It seems odd that I developed both around the same time.  I also have thought that maybe the asthma attacks created an axiety.  Well I doubt that since the Prozac seems to really help!  Anyway what do you think the chances that  the asthma diagnosis is a mistake?  I have no other symptoms except for shortness of breath.  This has seemed to diminish recently, the change to flovent? or prozac?  The thought that I have been taking these meds for one year for nothing really blows my mind!

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Chiop Actually most of my PAs occur when I am sleeping.  I never had PAs until last summer when I began waking unable to breath.  After two months of being told I had anxiety I tested positive for asthma.  Although I no longer have bronchial spasms, I do have PA and anxiety. I often wonder if in fact the asthma breathing tests are really reliable.  It seems odd that I developed both around the same time.  I also have thought that maybe the asthma attacks created an axiety.  Well I doubt that since the Prozac seems to really help!  Anyway what do you think the chances that  the asthma diagnosis is a mistake?  I have no other symptoms except for shortness of breath.  This has seemed to diminish recently, the change to flovent? or prozac?  The thought that I have been taking these meds for one year for nothing really blows my mind!

Spirometry is an extremely sensitive and reliable way to diagnose asthma. Subtle abnormalities often show up on this test before people even have any symptoms of asthma (i.e. cough, shortness of breath, wheezing). I suspect you do indeed have asthma which is being appropriately treated with Flovent (an inhaled corticosteroid). You may have had very mild asthma (months or years) long before your PAs developed last summer. You only know that asthma was finally diagnosed around last summer. Your panic disorder was also diagnosed around last summer, so you are making an assumption that both started at the same time. This may or may not be the case. Prozac and the other SSRIs are excellent meds for the treatment of PD. Chip p.s. where do I send the bill? ) Before you buy.

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writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hot flashes are a common anxiety symptom – I get them frequently.  I also get the flu like feeling, and I have learned through experience that in my case this is always the precursor to a really big PA, so as soon as it starts I reach for the Valium.  Can’t explain the itching feet – I get psoriasis, mostly on my feet and legs, so as soon as any itching starts in that area I immediately assume that it is psoriasis and treat it accordingly. — Jon Guite Jon, I hope you are not still using "Skin Cap" for your psoriasis.  It was taken off the market here in the US a long time ago and contains a potent topical steroid.  I don’t believe you are, just a word of caution. Dot

Hi Dot – I well recall the furore about the supposed discovery of Clobetasol Propianate in Skin Cap, and its subsequent withdrawal from the market.  I was pretty annoyed about this since it is the only remedy I had ever found which worked really well for me.  I discussed it with my Doctor and she gave me Dermovate – a cream which contains the same drug!  My psoriasis can be very disabling, as I get the pustular form all over the soles of my feet, which makes walking agony, so it is important to me to have something that works fast.   Just as an aside, a few months ago, I got a package from Cheminova, the manufacturers of Skin Cap.  In the covering letter they assured me that it did not contain any steroids, and that the active ingredient was Zinc Pyrithione.  They sent a sachet of Skin Cap which I tried on a small patch on my arm, and it worked a treat.  I had been a bit puzzled as to why my psoriasis, which normally kicks up big time at about this time of year, had been so quiet for the last 3 years with only occasional small patches.  Then I discovered something that I did about 3 years back that might be making a difference.  I had switched to using an anti-dandruff shampoo, and guess what – one of the ingredients is Zinc Pyrithione! Maybe Cheminova were telling the truth all along, as they always strongly denied using steroids in their products. — Jon Guite Live support and chat for anxiety and panic disorders at the #anx/pan chat room in Dalnet.  For details see http://www.skcldv.demon.co.uk/anxpanw.htm

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all i know is i was misdiagnosed with asthma, even when the doctor KNEW I had panic attacks….I’ve heard it a lot just in the few days i have visited

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Chiop Actually most of my PAs occur when I am sleeping.  I never had PAs until last summer when I began waking unable to breath.  After two months of being told I had anxiety I tested positive for asthma.  Although I no longer have bronchial spasms, I do have PA and anxiety. I often wonder if in fact the asthma breathing tests are really reliable.  It seems odd that I developed both around the same time.  I also have thought that maybe the asthma attacks created an axiety.  Well I doubt that since the Prozac seems to really help!  Anyway what do you think the chances that  the asthma diagnosis is a mistake?  I have no other symptoms except for shortness of breath.  This has seemed to diminish recently, the change to flovent? or prozac?  The thought that I have been taking these meds for one year for nothing really blows my mind!

Response:

You seem to be good at this so here is another one.  Do you know of anyone who has experience blurred vision on prozac.  I have experienced this twice waking up in the mid night.  The first time I attributed it to just sleepiness, but last night it was definitly not sleepiness.  It only occurs in the right eye, and every thing appears as if I am looking through the bottom of a glass! ps Vytra is already looking to cancel me!!! Thanks

Blurry vision is a common anxiety symptom. It *can* be a side effect but I’m inclined to think it’s a symptom. I know it is with me. Philip

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You seem to be good at this so here is another one.  Do you know of anyone who has experience blurred vision on prozac.  I have experienced this twice waking up in the mid night.  The first time I attributed it to just sleepiness, but last night it was definitly not sleepiness.  It only occurs in the right eye, and every thing appears as if I am looking through the bottom of a glass!

If a med (i.e. a pill) was causing blurred vision, both eyes would most likely be affected. If your vision is only temporarily affected in that one eye, it could be something as simple as mild pressure on the affected eye caused by a pillow while you are asleep. It could have other causes as well, which only an MD could diagnose by talking to you and examining your eye. ps Vytra is already looking to cancel me!!! Thanks

Never heard of "Vytra", however I accept cash and payment by reputable credit cards. ) Chip Before you buy.

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You seem to be good at this so here is another one.  Do you know of anyone who has experience blurred vision on prozac.  I have experienced this twice waking up in the mid night.  The first time I attributed it to just sleepiness, but last night it was definitly not sleepiness.  It only occurs in the right eye, and every thing appears as if I am looking through the bottom of a glass! ps Vytra is already looking to cancel me!!! Thanks

Response:

I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

Hi! The hot flashes and "strange" feelings are probably a side effect of the Prozac, and may lessen, or you may just have to learn to live with them and be happy that you are no longer anxious or depressed. I had the itchy feet and was actually going to a podiatrist for another problem at the time.  He noticed the rash and said I was merely allergic to the dye in the lining of my shoes.  And yes, it works through your socks! The remedy is to buy a piece of moleskin at the Dr. Scholl’s display in your drugstore and put it on the area of your shoe that touches the part where you itch. Hope this helps. Dot Before you buy.

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I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

Any rash on the tops of your feet? Buy any new shoes lately? If so, you may have an allergic reaction to the new shoes. Hi! The hot flashes and "strange" feelings are probably a side effect of the Prozac, and may lessen, or you may just have to learn to live with them and be happy that you are no longer anxious or depressed. I had the itchy feet and was actually going to a podiatrist for another problem at the time.  He noticed the rash and said I was merely allergic to the dye in the lining of my shoes.  And yes, it works through your socks!

Good diagnosis, Dot. Contact dermititis of the feet usually occurs on the tops of the feet and appears as a red, bumpy, itchy rash if it is allergic in origen (and burning or stinging if it is irritative in origen). The skin on the soles of the feet is thicker,  and is generally unlikely to develope a contact dermititis, although tinea pedis (athlete’s foot) commonly developes there since fungus likes dead skin (which is more likely to be on the soles). The remedy is to buy a piece of moleskin at the Dr. Scholl’s display in your drugstore and put it on the area of your shoe that touches the part where you itch.

Very good and simple solution! Hope this helps. Dot

Good work, Dot. We’d make a GREAT team!! Chip ) Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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I will certainly try ice packs, sound like a good idea, at least my feet will get numb!  Meanwhile almost a week later I still have a raw spot that I mus keep bandaged or the socks stick,yuck!

Response:

Chip I am female but as mentioned had hormone tests for perimenopaus… all fine.  I am only taking the prozac (20mg for about a monthand a half,  but it took me two months to get to that dose) and xanax as needed,  I do however take asthma med- serevent and flovent.  An arm with no circulation feels heavy and numb like.   A question:  is there a difference between nocturnal and non nocturnal pa other than the time of day??  I ask this because 99% of my PAs occur at night.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again! Hot flashes are a common anxiety symptom – I get them frequently.  I also get the flu like feeling, and I have learned through experience that in my case this is always the precursor to a really big PA, so as soon as it starts I reach for the Valium.  Can’t explain the itching feet – I get psoriasis, mostly on my feet and legs, so as soon as any itching starts in that area I immediately assume that it is psoriasis and treat it accordingly. — Jon Guite

Jon, I hope you are not still using "Skin Cap" for your psoriasis.  It was taken off the market here in the US a long time ago and contains a potent topical steroid.  I don’t believe you are, just a word of caution. Dot Before you buy.

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Chip I am female but as mentioned had hormone tests for perimenopaus… all fine.  I

I suspect you mean the blood tests (FSH and LH) showed no evidence of hormonal changes associated with the perimenpause. am only taking the prozac (20mg for about a monthand a half,  but it took me two months to get to that dose) and xanax as needed,  I do however take asthma med- serevent and flovent.  An arm with no circulation feels heavy and numb like.

A heavy and numb arm (often associated with painful tingling) may be related to sleeping with one’s arm in an abnormal position so that the nerve to the arm is stretched or pinched while asleep. A question:  is there a difference between nocturnal and non nocturnal pa other than the time of day??  I ask this because 99% of my PAs occur at night.

Nocturnal panic attacks occur while one is asleep at night. It’s unclear from your description whether your PAs are occuring while you are asleep, or just during the evening hours. If they are occuring while asleep (i.e. nocturnal panic attacks), it is possible your asthma may be related to them (although I doubt this). It’s possible your asthma may become so severe at night that your P-CO-2 rises and triggers a PA. However that would have to be very severe asthma, which I doubt you have. Chip * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks. Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work

recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

Prior to a panic attack , I would get hot spots on my feet and hands. The spots would be red spots under the skin and be extremely itchy. I would scratch so hard that my skin would become raw. I thought this was a very unusual symptom of anxiety and panic UNTIL I talked with many people that have the same symptoms of itching. Not necessarily a rash or eczema. Just an over powering sensation that is relieved by scratching your skin off. One of my quickess cures is to run my hands under cold water, or hold ice cold water or a bag of ice cubes. Putting my feet in cold water would help too. I had an article about that but since I have been messing around on the computer, I deleted the article. But if I should find it I will post it here. Julie Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

Hot flashes are a common anxiety symptom – I get them frequently.  I also get the flu like feeling, and I have learned through experience that in my case this is always the precursor to a really big PA, so as soon as it starts I reach for the Valium.  Can’t explain the itching feet – I get psoriasis, mostly on my feet and legs, so as soon as any itching starts in that area I immediately assume that it is psoriasis and treat it accordingly. — Jon Guite Live support and chat for anxiety and panic disorders at the #anx/pan chat room in Dalnet.  For details see http://www.skcldv.demon.co.uk/anxpanw.htm

Response:

There really is no rash or any visible sign that something is wrong.  I will however pay more attention to what I am wearing when it happens so that I can figure out which shoes, if any are the ones!  In the meantime I scratched my foot so bad that it is raw and I must keep gauze on it to prevent it from sticking to the sock, yuck!  As far as the prozac side effects, would they come and go.  I do not experience them daily  but in spurts.  Thanks for the help.  

Response:

I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like

These may be nocturnal PAs partially blocked by your Prozac. You don’t say if you have panic disorder or how long you hae been on this dose of Prozac. Or what other meds you are taking. PAs can make the skin burn or tingle, or feel flushed and warm. Women may experience hot flashes during the perimenopause. symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice

What does an arm without circulation feel like? severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

I suspect your a woman because you speak of hormone tests. (although they could be done on men too) The normal blood tests and (likely) normal physical exam make a physical disorder much less likely. I get areas on my skin that start itching (without any rash) and I scratch the skin raw. I don’t know why the itching starts, maybe nerves, maybe some minor irritation of the skin perceived as an itch. I have one spot on the sole of my left foot which itches terribly from time to time so that I have once taken a shoe horn and rubbed it raw. I think it may be nerves, except it doesn’t necessarily occur with increased anxiety. I don’t know why it itches, and I have had this problem for 20 years. Still here, though! Chip Before you buy.

Response:

I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks. Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

-Yea It comes with the disorder for some reason. Many of us have this and it’s not limited to the feet. You need the doc to give you a cream like Trimcinolone Acetonide. The itching is probably not caused by medication but is a by-product of AD’s…..John Before you buy.

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Try benedryl for the itching. Jon. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am afraid to say (as I may jinx myself) that since I finally made it to 20mg of prozac I feel much better. I think the test will be the long term as I have had good periods and bad over the past year.  A few things I have found and was wondering if anyone else has the same.  Hot flashes for one.  I wake in the middle of the night and feel like I am burning, sometimes it subsides quickly other times I must take a xanax.  i also wake with this feeling of flu like symptoms.  they come on in waves.  My arms feel like there is no circulation and my entire body just feels odd, not like previous attacks.  Finally I notice severe itching on the top of my feet.  I scratched so bad yesterday they are raw!  I use Cortaid, to no avail.  I have had blood work recently, actually the day I had a hormone workup I had a hot flash that night.  Blood and all other tests are ok.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thank you again!

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Question:

<snipped medical horror story Your story reminds me a lot of my own, which is chock full of anecdotes about medicine at its sloppiest LOL….I’ve posted all that here before, years ago, so I won’t repeat it all, but I’ve seen some pretty ridiculous things before too. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose?

The hypochondriac label is often pinned on people with PD, but it’s often unjustifiable, because no one knows what causes PD, and there is a lot of evidence that some cases may be secondary to a variety of physical & neurological diseases, from hypoglycemia to magnesium deficiency to a gamut of heart problems to exotic things like Borna virus, etc. etc. Sometimes people will look for diseases to blame their PD on instead of dealing with the mental causes, but the reverse is true too: quite often many doctors will simply label symptoms they don’t understand as manifestations of stress or PD because they can’t be bothered to make the effort to investigate. It cuts both ways & sorting out which is which can be difficult. It is quite common for PD to be secondary to other diseases – some of the best studies on PD show that standard medications & therapies don’t really do much to help 50% of patients, and in those cases, the reason why is usually undiagnosed concomitant physical or mental illness. Try passing that information on to most doctors though and of course, they’ll label you a hypochondriac – it’s circular reasoning, a tautological trap that I’ve seen myself. How do you get around all these problems? I don’t know, ’cause I’m still dealing with a similar situation myself and haven’t found the answer yet. Competent medical help is out there – I’ve seen it, on rare occasions, but finding it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. The only thing I can suggest is to keep on looking for doctors who really know what they’re doing, although it may take a long time. I wish I could be more positive, but that’s the way things are sometimes LOL. Good luck! — Steve P.S. A really good book to help patients cope with undiagnosed illnesses and help them assist their doctors in devising treatments came out a few years ago that you might want to read…it was written by a lady who had Lyme disease that was misdiagnosed as panic disorder….the title is on the tip of my tongue, but I can’t spit it out LOL. If you want the title or author’s name E-mail me in a couple days, I’ll remember by then LOL It’s really worth reading.

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Well, at least I’m not alone on this, nor crazy. I just wish, if I had a Panic Attack that I would "panic". It just DOESN’T happen! I just have severe debilitating pain that, with no apparent cause, gets diagnosed as PAs. Weird. They do come from stress also, albeit more minor, so GAD or PA must have some "overlap" but are not the "cause" of the main attacks. Gotta play with the cards your dealt I guess. I’ve tried "some" form of asthma inhaler but get no relief. Still sure seems cardiac to me. I know there’s a "vagal nerve" that can simulate, for various reasons, my symptoms. Given that knowledge, what do I do? Doctors have NO response. NONE, except to say that I have a "hard wired" GO system. Makes some sense but what’s the cure – if any? As to diagnosis by trying different drugs – that’s a hard one for me. I’ve been given some stuff that just knocks my socks off (Remeron, Percosets, for example) and realize the dangers of just "trying" a drug to see if it helps BEFORE you find out what the problem is in the first place. They can be worse than the disease! Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with the other poster Tom. Exercice induced asthma can have symptoms like chest tightness, chest pain, a feeling that you’re going to stop breathing. Since your symptoms are so persistent and reproducible, it just seems to me that your doctors might want to investigate the respiratory angle, since they’ve already pretty well exhausted the heart tests. Nothing to lose anyway. Maybe you could just have a trial of taking a puff of Ventolin before you exercise, and see if it improves things. I’m sure most doctors wouldn’t object to trying that, because diagnosis by medication is a lot cheaper than by pulmonary tests. I’ve been thinking about being more insistent with my own doctor about the same thing. Or else you might just have a bad case of esophagitis and any exercise makes stomach acid reflux up there. It’s elusive, but that could cause symptoms like that, since the esophagus and the cardiac nerves are very much "interconnected", for lack of a better word. In fact, even reflux can cause an asthmatic reaction. I may be a maverick about this, but I just don’t think that everything is caused by anxiety, even though a person may have an anxiety problem. Now, that having been said, I experienced pretty well those same symptoms on every threadmil stress test I’ve had in the past 3 years, and nobody ever even noticed. It could just be that you are a chronic low-level hyperventilator, and any increased breathing rate due to exercise triggers all the symptoms associated with hyperventilation. I know "could be’s" aren’t much of an answer, but I think I know how much this is troubling you. It almost just makes you want to give up on exercising altogether doesn’t it. I think I would do just that, if it wasn’t that I used to be so fit, and that I love cycling so much. Pierre Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire. Weird and very debilitating. Had to vent in that last post – sorry. I’ve lasted this long. I’ll probably make it to 100 What do you use for your PAs. I was once told to use extra Xanax when exercising before and after. Sure it worked a bit! Mostly because it just made me tired and slowed me down I don’t feel like what I hear people on this group describe their PAs as. Mine is TOTALLY physical. I’ll leave the house, drive for miles, talk in front of groups, etc., even when these events occur. Just feel like shit if I exert myself. How do you deal with this? A real drag as I used to LOVE to exercise as a release from stress. The confusion of doctors just makes me more confused and concerned they don’t know what they’re doing… Off to hike and go get sick again <chuckle… Regards… T Hi there Tom. We’ve talked a couple of times before. I share your problems with exercise, and I’m 46. Have you ever thought you might have exercise-induced asthma? I’m beginning to think that’s what I have, not to say that I don’t have PAs also. Pierre How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

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oh, yeah also I forgot to mention- if you’re interested; that according to traditional Chinese medicine- if you remove a part of you when its not absolutely necessary, you interrupt you Qi (chi) which is an individual’s energy flow, the consequences of that are fatigue and other numerous problems with weakness- I found that going to an (experienced-the real deal!!) acupuncturist to restore your flow helps greatly! It even helped me with most of my stomach pains! Its worth a try. Just make sure that the person you’re going to is actually Chinese with at least 10 yrs. experience. cheers, al. P.S.; my father was going to have surgery , but was strictly forbidden by our Chinese doctor, who fixed his problem with acupuncture and herbs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

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Hi!, Actually I found the opposite; I was diagnosed with many things, or was failed to be diagnosed with the right things- all except the one "simple" GAD that brought on all these symptoms mimicking "the flu", "food allergies", "colds", "upset stomachs" I’ve had mysterious sharp pains in the stomach, ever since I was a child- that seemed to get worse during times of stress. I’ve heard that Kurt Cobain (the frontman of the band Nirvana who killed himself in ‘94) had these mysterious pains too, and used to get stoned out of his mind just to get some sleep, because that’s when he could rest from the pain- supposedly he saw all kinds of experts about it- I’m sure he had extreme GAD and depression that was failed to be diagnosed. And so he killed himself, despite having tremendous artistic talent, beautiful daughter, money, fans, etc. Is that how it’s going to be? People have to self-terminate before the doctors notice what’s really going on? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

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Tom,     I really know where you are coming from as to the surgery,coming out of the anesthesia,telling some dim wit that you suffer from PD….the idiot in question( Attendent ) ….     He can’t understand the english language,runs to the nurses station at the speed of a snail…Incomes a horrific looking nurse,she belts out     I’d like to tell you that i had rapid pulse,chest tightness with mild pain that seemed to come and go during the walk…..Hell,i was scared to get out,for fear of dying in the street…..As soo as i would get back to the ole     One morning,i just got up and had a cup of green tea (Orange Flavor) with nothing to eat……Walked two blocks for the paper,purchasd my coffee…..Headed back to the residence…No pulse or tightness,due to empty stomach…( I can not walk on a full stomach )…. thought i would relay something to try and help,as you have been going     The people here actually know more than my therapy doc….LOL…… See you

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In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. This part sounds like depression. Chip

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Maybe but it’s all phyisical, unless I’m deluding myself. I usually feel fine regarding depression. But, being so sick has caused some depression that I come out of pretty easily by looking at the cool things in life I have. T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. This part sounds like depression. Chip

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Tom,     I really know where you are coming from as to the surgery,coming out of the anesthesia,telling some dim wit that you suffer from PD….the idiot in question( Attendent ) ….

Ahhh… you know him/her!     He can’t understand the english language,runs to the nurses station at the speed of a snail…Incomes a horrific looking nurse,she belts out

It sure wasn’t fun. I actually studied the IB tube and, if things got much worse, I may have taken them out. At the very least, I simply wanted to get out of bed and walk a little. Took 2 hours before the nurse decided she’d let me. Jeez. Felt like I was treated like a little kid. Never gave them any grief. Next time! I looked at it from their side after a while. These nurses and aides are WAY overworked and just don’t have ANY time. My sister was a nurse and got out because of similar issues. Now she gets to help people with massage therapies. Doctors seem to be the problem. Spend 8 days in all in hospitals with somewhat minor issues. In 8 days I probably talked to a doctor a total of 10 minutes – one minute a day! Weird. When I tried his office he was golfing that work day! Kind of funny. Seemed ridiculous stereotypical! These ones acted like GODS that passed out life and death like playing cards.     I’d like to tell you that i had rapid pulse,chest tightness with mild pain that seemed to come and go during the walk…..Hell,i was scared to get out,for fear of dying in the street…..As soo as i would get back to the ole

Sounds REAL similar although my "issue" would last days. At this point though I could care less about worrying about dying. If I drop I drop. I don’t even think about it. Still doesn’t stop the pain.     One morning,i just got up and had a cup of green tea (Orange Flavor) with nothing to eat……Walked two blocks for the paper,purchasd my coffee…..Headed back to the residence…No pulse or tightness,due to empty stomach…( I can not walk on a full stomach )…. thought i would relay something to try and help,as you have been going

Interesting, I’ll give it a go this weekend. Although I live in very steep canyons so a "walk down the street" is followed by a walk "up the street". Pretty intense! Maybe I should move to flatter ground     The people here actually know more than my therapy doc….LOL……

Thanks, my PDOC is actually pretty good although I have no base from which to compare. He knows this is not "all" psychological. Whatever it is, it is. Maybe someday it will go away. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See you

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Boy, that is one tough case. Pierre

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, at least I’m not alone on this, nor crazy. I just wish, if I had a Panic Attack that I would "panic". It just DOESN’T happen! I just have severe debilitating pain that, with no apparent cause, gets diagnosed as PAs. Weird. They do come from stress also, albeit more minor, so GAD or PA must have some "overlap" but are not the "cause" of the main attacks. Gotta play with the cards your dealt I guess. I’ve tried "some" form of asthma inhaler but get no relief. Still sure seems cardiac to me. I know there’s a "vagal nerve" that can simulate, for various reasons, my symptoms. Given that knowledge, what do I do? Doctors have NO response. NONE, except to say that I have a "hard wired" GO system. Makes some sense but what’s the cure – if any? As to diagnosis by trying different drugs – that’s a hard one for me. I’ve been given some stuff that just knocks my socks off (Remeron, Percosets, for example) and realize the dangers of just "trying" a drug to see if it helps BEFORE you find out what the problem is in the first place. They can be worse than the disease! Tom I agree with the other poster Tom. Exercice induced asthma can have symptoms like chest tightness, chest pain, a feeling that you’re going to stop breathing. Since your symptoms are so persistent and reproducible, it just seems to me that your doctors might want to investigate the respiratory angle, since they’ve already pretty well exhausted the heart tests. Nothing to lose anyway. Maybe you could just have a trial of taking a puff of Ventolin before you exercise, and see if it improves things. I’m sure most doctors wouldn’t object to trying that, because diagnosis by medication is a lot cheaper than by pulmonary tests. I’ve been thinking about being more insistent with my own doctor about the same thing. Or else you might just have a bad case of esophagitis and any exercise makes stomach acid reflux up there. It’s elusive, but that could cause symptoms like that, since the esophagus and the cardiac nerves are very much "interconnected", for lack of a better word. In fact, even reflux can cause an asthmatic reaction. I may be a maverick about this, but I just don’t think that everything is caused by anxiety, even though a person may have an anxiety problem. Now, that having been said, I experienced pretty well those same symptoms on every threadmil stress test I’ve had in the past 3 years, and nobody ever even noticed. It could just be that you are a chronic low-level hyperventilator, and any increased breathing rate due to exercise triggers all the symptoms associated with hyperventilation. I know "could be’s" aren’t much of an answer, but I think I know how much this is troubling you. It almost just makes you want to give up on exercising altogether doesn’t it. I think I would do just that, if it wasn’t that I used to be so fit, and that I love cycling so much. Pierre Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire. Weird and very debilitating. Had to vent in that last post – sorry. I’ve lasted this long. I’ll probably make it to 100 What do you use for your PAs. I was once told to use extra Xanax when exercising before and after. Sure it worked a bit! Mostly because it just made me tired and slowed me down I don’t feel like what I hear people on this group describe their PAs as. Mine is TOTALLY physical. I’ll leave the house, drive for miles, talk in front of groups, etc., even when these events occur. Just feel like shit if I exert myself. How do you deal with this? A real drag as I used to LOVE to exercise as a release from stress. The confusion of doctors just makes me more confused and concerned they don’t know what they’re doing… Off to hike and go get sick again <chuckle… Regards… T Hi there Tom. We’ve talked a couple of times before. I share your problems with exercise, and I’m 46. Have you ever thought you might have exercise-induced asthma? I’m beginning to think that’s what I have, not to say that I don’t have PAs also. Pierre How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a

… read more »

Response:

Meant Hard Wired "GI" systems in that last post. But… maybe it is my "GO" system that’s screwed up T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, at least I’m not alone on this, nor crazy. I just wish, if I had a Panic Attack that I would "panic". It just DOESN’T happen! I just have severe debilitating pain that, with no apparent cause, gets diagnosed as PAs. Weird. They do come from stress also, albeit more minor, so GAD or PA must have some "overlap" but are not the "cause" of the main attacks. Gotta play with the cards your dealt I guess. I’ve tried "some" form of asthma inhaler but get no relief. Still sure seems cardiac to me. I know there’s a "vagal nerve" that can simulate, for various reasons, my symptoms. Given that knowledge, what do I do? Doctors have NO response. NONE, except to say that I have a "hard wired" GO system. Makes some sense but what’s the cure – if any? As to diagnosis by trying different drugs – that’s a hard one for me. I’ve been given some stuff that just knocks my socks off (Remeron, Percosets, for example) and realize the dangers of just "trying" a drug to see if it helps BEFORE you find out what the problem is in the first place. They can be worse than the disease! Tom I agree with the other poster Tom. Exercice induced asthma can have symptoms like chest tightness, chest pain, a feeling that you’re going to stop breathing. Since your symptoms are so persistent and reproducible, it just seems to me that your doctors might want to investigate the respiratory angle, since they’ve already pretty well exhausted the heart tests. Nothing to lose anyway. Maybe you could just have a trial of taking a puff of Ventolin before you exercise, and see if it improves things. I’m sure most doctors wouldn’t object to trying that, because diagnosis by medication is a lot cheaper than by pulmonary tests. I’ve been thinking about being more insistent with my own doctor about the same thing. Or else you might just have a bad case of esophagitis and any exercise makes stomach acid reflux up there. It’s elusive, but that could cause symptoms like that, since the esophagus and the cardiac nerves are very much "interconnected", for lack of a better word. In fact, even reflux can cause an asthmatic reaction. I may be a maverick about this, but I just don’t think that everything is caused by anxiety, even though a person may have an anxiety problem. Now, that having been said, I experienced pretty well those same symptoms on every threadmil stress test I’ve had in the past 3 years, and nobody ever even noticed. It could just be that you are a chronic low-level hyperventilator, and any increased breathing rate due to exercise triggers all the symptoms associated with hyperventilation. I know "could be’s" aren’t much of an answer, but I think I know how much this is troubling you. It almost just makes you want to give up on exercising altogether doesn’t it. I think I would do just that, if it wasn’t that I used to be so fit, and that I love cycling so much. Pierre Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire. Weird and very debilitating. Had to vent in that last post – sorry. I’ve lasted this long. I’ll probably make it to 100 What do you use for your PAs. I was once told to use extra Xanax when exercising before and after. Sure it worked a bit! Mostly because it just made me tired and slowed me down I don’t feel like what I hear people on this group describe their PAs as. Mine is TOTALLY physical. I’ll leave the house, drive for miles, talk in front of groups, etc., even when these events occur. Just feel like shit if I exert myself. How do you deal with this? A real drag as I used to LOVE to exercise as a release from stress. The confusion of doctors just makes me more confused and concerned they don’t know what they’re doing… Off to hike and go get sick again <chuckle… Regards… T Hi there Tom. We’ve talked a couple of times before. I share your problems with exercise, and I’m 46. Have you ever thought you might have exercise-induced asthma? I’m beginning to think that’s what I have, not to say that I don’t have PAs also. Pierre How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post.

… read more »

Response:

Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire.

As an asthma and PA guy I have to say that some of your symptoms do sound like asthma (the tight chest for one) but so many things can cause that it really isn’t definitive.  Still I don’t think asking for a PFT (Pulmonary Function Test) would be unusual.  I should warn that they do give you a bronchodialator during part of the test (they have to see reversability of lung function to diagnose asthma as opposed to COPD where there isn’t as much reversabilty) – and they can increase anxiety.   I think it is worth getting done just to eliminate a possibility.

Response:

I agree with the other poster Tom. Exercice induced asthma can have symptoms like chest tightness, chest pain, a feeling that you’re going to stop breathing. Since your symptoms are so persistent and reproducible, it just seems to me that your doctors might want to investigate the respiratory angle, since they’ve already pretty well exhausted the heart tests. Nothing to lose anyway. Maybe you could just have a trial of taking a puff of Ventolin before you exercise, and see if it improves things. I’m sure most doctors wouldn’t object to trying that, because diagnosis by medication is a lot cheaper than by pulmonary tests. I’ve been thinking about being more insistent with my own doctor about the same thing. Or else you might just have a bad case of esophagitis and any exercise makes stomach acid reflux up there. It’s elusive, but that could cause symptoms like that, since the esophagus and the cardiac nerves are very much "interconnected", for lack of a better word. In fact, even reflux can cause an asthmatic reaction. I may be a maverick about this, but I just don’t think that everything is caused by anxiety, even though a person may have an anxiety problem. Now, that having been said, I experienced pretty well those same symptoms on every threadmil stress test I’ve had in the past 3 years, and nobody ever even noticed. It could just be that you are a chronic low-level hyperventilator, and any increased breathing rate due to exercise triggers all the symptoms associated with hyperventilation. I know "could be’s" aren’t much of an answer, but I think I know how much this is troubling you. It almost just makes you want to give up on exercising altogether doesn’t it. I think I would do just that, if it wasn’t that I used to be so fit, and that I love cycling so much. Pierre

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire. Weird and very debilitating. Had to vent in that last post – sorry. I’ve lasted this long. I’ll probably make it to 100 What do you use for your PAs. I was once told to use extra Xanax when exercising before and after. Sure it worked a bit! Mostly because it just made me tired and slowed me down I don’t feel like what I hear people on this group describe their PAs as. Mine is TOTALLY physical. I’ll leave the house, drive for miles, talk in front of groups, etc., even when these events occur. Just feel like shit if I exert myself. How do you deal with this? A real drag as I used to LOVE to exercise as a release from stress. The confusion of doctors just makes me more confused and concerned they don’t know what they’re doing… Off to hike and go get sick again <chuckle… Regards… T Hi there Tom. We’ve talked a couple of times before. I share your problems with exercise, and I’m 46. Have you ever thought you might have exercise-induced asthma? I’m beginning to think that’s what I have, not to say that I don’t have PAs also. Pierre How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

Response:

Thanks… Too bad my doctors seem to sit back and wait for ME to come up with questions to ask THEM. Medical Science hasn’t impressed me. Rather the opposite. Had I NOT gone to a doctor in the first place I think I’d be much better. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire. As an asthma and PA guy I have to say that some of your symptoms do sound like asthma (the tight chest for one) but so many things can cause that it really isn’t definitive.  Still I don’t think asking for a PFT (Pulmonary Function Test) would be unusual.  I should warn that they do give you a bronchodialator during part of the test (they have to see reversability of lung function to diagnose asthma as opposed to COPD where there isn’t as much reversabilty) – and they can increase anxiety.   I think it is worth getting done just to eliminate a possibility.

Response:

Hi there Tom. We’ve talked a couple of times before. I share your problems with exercise, and I’m 46. Have you ever thought you might have exercise-induced asthma? I’m beginning to think that’s what I have, not to say that I don’t have PAs also. Pierre

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

Response:

Minor asthma I do sometimes get – I think – also from cats. But that just isn’t it, unless I misunderstand asthma. Just feels like the heart is going to stop? Weird. It’s feels like, if not cardiac, that wires are just crossed throughout my chest and everything in my thorax goes haywire. Weird and very debilitating. Had to vent in that last post – sorry. I’ve lasted this long. I’ll probably make it to 100 What do you use for your PAs. I was once told to use extra Xanax when exercising before and after. Sure it worked a bit! Mostly because it just made me tired and slowed me down I don’t feel like what I hear people on this group describe their PAs as. Mine is TOTALLY physical. I’ll leave the house, drive for miles, talk in front of groups, etc., even when these events occur. Just feel like shit if I exert myself. How do you deal with this? A real drag as I used to LOVE to exercise as a release from stress. The confusion of doctors just makes me more confused and concerned they don’t know what they’re doing… Off to hike and go get sick again <chuckle… Regards… T – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there Tom. We’ve talked a couple of times before. I share your problems with exercise, and I’m 46. Have you ever thought you might have exercise-induced asthma? I’m beginning to think that’s what I have, not to say that I don’t have PAs also. Pierre How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

Response:

How’s that for a subject line! Sorry for the length. Long time no post! I’ve posted and lurked here for some time, learning a lot but still have a problem relegating all my "physical" problems to PA/GAD. In less than one year I’ve been in the hospital four times, since getting ill on my annual trips through Jamaica. First they told me nothing was wrong – wrong! It turned out to be some kind of bacterial infection causes by antibiotics they gave me (which were NOT needed as it turned out – no parasites, etc.). Turned into Colitis (WOW!) and is now gone. Then more – major abdominal pains. Told me nothing was wrong – Wrong Again! Got SO bad I DEMANDED they remove my appendix laproscopically (even though tests showed it was fine), since they said I would be up & around in a day. Turned out the appendix was badly infected (5% apparently won’t show up on tests until it bursts!). I was "up & around" in 2 weeks, not 1 day, after a massive PA after coming out of General Anesthetics! Told them I was on Xanax and was having "a problem". Sorry – not on your chart I got from the nurses. Doctor will be in at 8:00am in the morning – Yikes! Talk about a bad day! Here I sit, 9 months later, still some pain in my abdomen but the worst is a return of PA/GAD I was diagnosed with many years ago, even though two doctors disagreed at the time. One believed there was some underlying physical problem causing PA (esophageal spasms WERE recorded) on a test. No GERD. It started after collapsing after a game of Racquetball. The "slightest" exercise almost seems to kill me. I’m 40, used to hike BIG TIME, Ski or snow board EVERY weekend, racquetball, etc. Was in great shape. Now, a 100 yard "walk" will bring on chest pain and dizziness, followed by illness for 2-3 days – chest tightness, nausea, dizziness, internal shaking, etc. PAs I’m told. 3 – 4 Mg/Xanax a day. They help a little to calm me down but do nothing for the underlying problem. No more Ers for me, no matter what! Sometimes a glass or two of wine or beer may be of some help but I’m weary of that route with Xanax. I’m not stupid in this regard! I’ve passed the main heart tests (echo, stress echo, stress Thallium, Holter, tilt table, etc.) yet had no angiogram – seemed extreme since no other problems showed up. Passed all GI tests (except one that recorded esophageal spasms). Passed "some" blood tests but when I asked for specifics they couldn’t even give me my cholesterol breakdown, never mind anything more exotic! In looking at the big picture it seems my "insides" are simply dying, slowly. Month by month, things get MUCH harder – physically. That sounds extreme but I am NOT a hypochondriac in the least and have little fear of death. I’m at my wits end trying to fight a straw man – exercise induced chest pain, fatigue, nausea, stomach spasms, weird neck "feelings", constant colds and flu’s. My brain says "keep going" in a positive way but my body is slowly wasting away and no doctor has an answer. Even my PDOC is concerned this is not PA/GAD although he has no more answers than anyone else. Have stayed away from other doctors for 3 months now, except a doctor specializing in pain. No help so far. It’s not really "pain". Far more complicated. Anyone ever been diagnosed with PA/GAD, only to find the PAs are caused by REAL disease, yet hard to diagnose? I’ve read a lot here. I’ve investigated PA/GAD until I’m blue in the face – kidding about the blue part , I meditate daily, 3-4 mg/xanax/day, massages, etc. Still, can hardly walk down the street, not out of any fear, simply massive chest pain and dizziness follows, especially if I carry any kind of weight (luggage). I have a fairly high stress job but seem to hide the pain pretty well most times. Travel somewhat and refused to let this "thing" stop my life – NO MATTER WHAT! I know I’m going to do "some" type of exercise today, even if it does kill me. Taking a walk this afternoon, regardless. Maybe even go hiking. If I drop, I drop? Any ideas? Comments? Related stories? As Al Pacino said in Scent of a Woman – "I’m in the dark here!" but still positive some day will bring resolution, one way or another! Thanks so much in advance… sorry for the length of the post. This is a great group, whether I belong here or not I’m still not sure. Tom

Response:

Question:

I am new to this group. Well I am new to the whole computer thing actually. I have a son that was just diagnosed with asthma after spending the whole summer coughing and going from one DR. to another. Finally  one doctor decided  maybe her might have asthma and put him on some trial inhalers and WOW!  my son is now sleeping almost all night long and feels much better through out the day. Is this typically the way a child is found out to have asthma? His dad does not think he has asthma, he is in denial I think. My son is on albuterol  inhaler, Serevent diskcus, Pulmicort turbohaler inhaler and albuterol nebulizer treatments. He is 11 years old. he is a little on the heavy side for his age. how can anyone trust advice on here and what  is a troll? Thanks for the talk  Gina

hi Gina…nice to meet you I’ll let the experts handle the medical side of things…but…your son has been diagnosed with a condition he shares with world class athletes in many sports, with top singers, successful dancers, great actors and even one of the Teletubbies…it might be worth getting his dad onto researching athletes with asthma, it changed my father’s attitude to my asthma when he saw Andy Carter using an inhaler before running an Olympic 800 metres semi final (early 70s…Munich) As for picking out the good advice from this group…I guess most of it is well intentioned…personally I ignore anything posted by somebody trying to sell something (unless I consider it a serious enough fraud to make a complaint to their ISP), anything that starts off by saying they just found something amazing, anything that claims to be a miracle cure…you will soon learn which contributors regularly contradict themselves, I ignore them too the complicated thing is that asthma is not a single condition with identical symptoms and causes for all asthmatics…sometimes people claim this to be so and I ignore them too…so don’t be disappointed if something doesn’t work for your son…he will have his very own unique version of asthma and you will need to find his unique ideal treatment plan see a specialist and start a treatment plan…then as you spot things that seem worth trying add them in…once the basics are under way it’s best to change one thing at a time and give it a while to see if it has an effect…a peak flow meter will help with this hope this helps eric

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Colin , I do not wish to seem unkind in the least way to you or anyone out on this particular support group.  I live in a world of terror everytime you say go to a specialist,(asthma).   I know for a fact that I would not be running as wild as I am with my asthma had I not gone to a licensed asthma specialist.  ( a hidden drunkard, that couldnot even stay on the job.)  He did not last in this city a year but he caused a lot of people to suffer besides me.  The state medical pros finally released a list of  badf doctors to the t.v. media and then he disapeared from the scene with all records, and I think he is out there practicing still,   hopefully he is not..   after that I gave up, went to a gp. and started over, test, X-rays , the works.  After a cat scan and a scare of cancer of the lungs I went back to get an immediate report for my nerves, He was on vacation.  I went to the hospital and got the report copy and got some releif.  when he came back from vacation, he wanted me to have immediate surgery  ( you see he glance at the report and gave me a 60 second visit and said i had a —-tumor— immediate hospitalization, yak, yak,…. well he did not read the end of the line above the mention of a tumor, " I see no evidence of a and knew what it said.  of course he threw me out of his office when I repeated the line above and he saw it. even sent me priorty letter telling me where to go.  Caution is the name of the game   My last X-rays this year showed no  major change in about six years,  Please check out your M.D.;;Specialist;; or in my case my very good D.O.  Hope this is taken for what it is worth as I use to work with many good doctors, back when I was a medical technologist.   Frannymae

FRAN’SHOME

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My son is on albuterol  inhaler, Serevent diskcus, Pulmicort turbohaler inhaler and albuterol nebulizer treatments. He is 11 years old. he is a little on the heavy side for his age. how can anyone trust advice on here and what  is a troll? Thanks for the talk  Gina

Gina– I’ll second the motion to see a specialist (I hope you have good insurance coverage, though). All those meds seem like a lot, but they are fairly common (I take all of them, but I’ve cut way back on the neb treatments). The specialist (usually an allergist) will not only get you a hard diagnosis from the pulmonary function test, they will be able to give you a lot of information about what is causing the asthma. For many people, asthma is caused by allergies to things like cat dander, dust mites, pollen, and mold and mildew. Tobacco smoke, air pollution, and other irritants can exacerbate the condition. Depending on the results of the allergy tests, you will probably want to make some environmental changes to help you son prevent asthma attacks in the first place. (We found new homes for all our animals, and encased our bed in allergen-proof covers.) Also, you might want to find out just how heavy he is for his height. Excess weight makes it just that much harder on his lungs. A lot of kids will lose this excess as they go through their teens, but that depends on his activity level, eating habits, and genes. As for how you can trust the advice you get here, the short answer is simple: You *can’t*. That’s pretty much true of everything on the net. You can find a lot of information, meet some interesting and knowledgeable people, but when it comes down to it, you have to make your own decisions with your own doctor. BTW (by the way), a ‘troll’ is someone who posts inflammatory or controversial remarks with the intent of getting a lot of people angry. This wastes a lot of bandwidth as people respond. Good luck. Ken

Response:

I am new to this group. Well I am new to the whole computer thing actually. I have a son that was just diagnosed with asthma after spending the whole summer coughing and going from one DR. to another. Finally  one doctor decided  maybe her might have asthma and put him on some trial inhalers and WOW!  my son is now sleeping almost all night long and feels much better through out the day. Is this typically the way a child is found out to have asthma? His dad does not think he has asthma, he is in denial I think. My son is on albuterol  inhaler, Serevent diskcus, Pulmicort turbohaler inhaler and albuterol nebulizer treatments. He is 11 years old. he is a little on the heavy side for his age. how can anyone trust advice on here and what  is a troll? Thanks for the talk  Gina

Response:

I am new to this group. Well I am new to the whole computer thing actually. I have a son that was just diagnosed with asthma after spending the whole summer coughing and going from one DR. to another. Finally  one doctor decided  maybe her might have asthma and put him on some trial inhalers and WOW!  my son is now sleeping almost all night long and feels much better through out the day. Is this typically the way a child is found out to have asthma? His dad does not think he has asthma, he is in denial I think. My son is on albuterol  inhaler, Serevent diskcus, Pulmicort turbohaler inhaler and albuterol nebulizer treatments. He is 11 years old. he is a little on the heavy side for his age. how can anyone trust advice on here and what  is a troll?

My advice would be to ask for a referral to an asthma specialist. Typically anybody who needs the amounts of medications he does needs to have a specialist. In general most ‘family practice’ doctors diagnose asthma using the ‘if it walks like a duck . . .’ principle.  The ‘official’ test that determines if it is or is not asthma is pulmonary functions testing. However his response to the medications is a strong indication that the diagnosis is correct. My experience is that a typical asthma diagnostic workup from an asthma specialist will include the following: 1) Detailed written questionnaire and office examination. 2) Pulmonary functions testing 3) Allergy testing 4) Blood sampling and testing. 5) Chest x rays. I really do recommend seeing an asthma specialist, they do a much better job than the average GP. Thanks for the talk  Gina

"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea — massive, diffucult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." Gene Spafford 1992

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Question:

I have a 16 month old son who seems to pick up any illness or cold that’s gets he always has a cough which is particularly bad at the moment during the night.  Most doctors say that his chest is clear so he does not have asthma, but the latest one that checked him said that there was a strand of asthma where the chest is clear but it is shown by a cough.  Can anyone offer any advise or experiences as we’re totally confused. He has now been given a ventilator to try, but we were told that even if he has asthma, which he cn’t say for certain, this may not help at his My second son was/is much like your son. My son had terrible coughing bout at

night when ill. We found out he had croup. A narrowing of the throat passageway that expands as the child grows. I was told croup was a small childs problem. But i have seen that this son (I have three kids) is more easy to have ear infections and symptons of asthma. I have asthma. I do not want to put my sone on asthma meds as I have seen all the horrible side effects it can cause. Also, make sure you dont give your son any dairy products when he is sick, it produces more mucus/more coughing. my son is 11 now and the most important thing for him is exersice and got eating. I have found the second and third children get sicker faster because there is an older child at home bringing so many wonderful bugs home from their friends and school. Take Heart they will be healthier when they get to school. From mountain Mama.

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I have a 16 month old son who seems to pick up any illness or cold that’s gets he always has a cough which is particularly bad at the moment during the night.  Most doctors say that his chest is clear so he does not have asthma, but the latest one that checked him said that there was a strand of asthma where the chest is clear but it is shown by a cough.  Can anyone offer any advise or experiences as we’re totally confused. He has now been given a ventilator to try, but we were told that even if he has asthma, which he cn’t say for certain, this may not help at his

It could be RAD (reactive airway disease). Asthma meds are often  given to help make the diagnosis; if they help, it tends to confirm an asthma diagnosis. Some links: http://www.aaaai.org/public/publicedmat/tips/tip20.html CHILDHOOD ASTHMA (AAAAI) http://www.parentsplace.com/cgi-bin/objects/web_doc/drweb216.data Asthma versus RAD http://www.ama-assn.org/special/asthma/library/scan/archive/wheez.htm    Asthma & Wheezing in the First  Six Years of Life (NEJM) Excerpt: "Conclusions: The majority of infants with wheezing have transient  conditions associated with diminished airway function at birth and  do not have increased risks of asthma or allergies later in life.  In a substantial minority of infants, however, wheezing episodes  are probably related to a predisposition to asthma."                 (N Engl J Med 1995;332:133-138) Ellis

Response:

I have a 16 month old son who seems to pick up any illness or cold that’s gets he always has a cough which is particularly bad at the moment during the night.  Most doctors say that his chest is clear so he does not have asthma, but the latest one that checked him said that there was a strand of asthma where the chest is clear but it is shown by a cough.  Can anyone offer any advise or experiences as we’re totally confused. He has now been given a ventilator to try, but we were told that even if he has asthma, which he cn’t say for certain, this may not help at his

Response:

Most doctors say that his chest is clear so he does not have asthma, but the latest one that checked him said that there was a strand of asthma where the chest is clear but it is shown by a cough. Asthma can be manifested by any of the following, or any combination.

Bronchospasm, mucus production or airway swelling. All of these can show a cough as part of the symptoms-they are just treated differently.The only way to difinitively diagnose asthma is with a Pulmonary Function test.Ventolin or albuterol only works when there is bronchospasm present. Colleen Mills CRTT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

Ann. Emergency room Drs are Not diagnostitians and prefer to Leeve that to the Specialists For many calid reasons. You were wise In seeking a Pulmonologist. Go by his decisions in the most Part But What he wont volunter I have found out Over years of Asthma. ANd medications of varying types. Oral Steroids and other Asthma Meds Can be a LIFEtime Proposition Asma Is NOT curable Quote My Respirologist. It Is treatable. the damage Hs Been done! on eQuack o sybndicated AM Radio Daily boasts He can cure ADULT ONSET ASTHMA He is Full of his own delusions.  This is such a vast unknown aera of medicine trust in the Conventional Medication. The PCP cannot undertake to prescribe a LIFe time Medication your contact with him is too sparodic, if ever repeated. His ASTHMA specific knowledge is limited to a SPASM relief. Albuterol Doesnt Help all In fact It helps very few persons. But there are many replacements. Be wary of Propellant assisted medecations It has been proven conclusivly that they Exasserbate the Asthma More so then Alergens or normal trigers. Roto Halers or Turbo halers are mucch better. and the ni=umber of spasmse is 75 % fewer with them than with PUFERS that use Propellants. (CFC’c in particular) I coach Cycling and Many of the persons I deal with have Asthma. AS I do! Your Best medicine Is Vigourous Exercise that elevatd the heart rate to your Safe MAXIMUM for at least 20 Minits 3 to 5 times Per week. ( no grabbing the bare ends Of a wire pluged into the Wall Electrical socket does not count!). A lifestyle change is In sever order. Start Slow and build Up have a 1 month rst At Christmas time. This Is v ery good as It allows the lungs to heel totally from the Exercise And your next years effort will be more benificial. Use a heart Rate monitor and keep close contact with your Pulmojnologist! and sont Believe a person Who says NO to Exercise because you have ASTHMA!Thats a Dead givaway HE/she has no knowledge of Asthma or its Mechanisms. Last BUT most Important Get a Pneumonia Shot and a FLue Shot. Have Antibiotics in the house in preparation for a Cold or Flue. They may not cure the cold/flue but they will prevent a respirototy infection of a sever nature. YOUR WORST ENEMY and you are Susceptable to All such Even if you were not in the past! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ordered the Asthma Sourcebook from Amazon yesterday, and while waiting for that I am wading my way through my printout of EPR-2.  Whew!  I don’t understand a lot of it, at least so far, but I am picking up from that and other sources that asthma tends to be under-diagnosed.  What I am wondering is why does it seem that primary care physicians are so reluctant to diagnose asthma and to start people on inhaled steroids, when there is a risk of permanent lung damage from uncontrolled asthma? In the cases of myself and my daughter, neither of us got inhaled steroids until we were finally referred to a pulmonologist (me) and an allergist (her).  Our respective PCP’s just gave us albuterol.  I know that many of you seem to be helped by this, but it (albuterol) did nothing for either of us, and I still don’t understand why a bronchodilator is expected to help a cough.  I am left wondering how much irreversible damage was done to our lungs in the meantime. Ann You probably need to read the Asthma Sourcebook first, before tackling the entire EPR2, there are some patient oriented sections to start with. It would be useful to have a copy of a medical dictionary, like Mosby Medical Encyclopedia, $7.99 in paperback. You won’t find many primary care physicians who have read thru the Expert Panel Report 2 (244 pages) or even know of its existance. PCPs have to treat some 500 diseases and simply don’t have the time to keep up on all the guidelines and latest drugs. My PCP is an Assist. Clinical Prof. at the local medical school. He doesn’t hesitate to prescribe steroid inhalers when needed; I went to an allergist in the Immunology Dept for several years, so now I basically tell my PCP what I need. As long as I don’t end up in ER, and don’t wheeze too much, its OK with him. There are asthma guidelines for PCPs that are more concise. Here is my favorite: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/Asthma/Asthma.html  Asthma Management: Guidelines for the Primary Care Physician Miles Weinberger, M.D. Department of Pediatrics University of Iowa College of Medicine  Copyright 1995   Revised 1998 More guidelines based on EPR2 from the Virtual Hospital: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/AsthmaIM/QuickRef.html Quick Reference Ellis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ordered the Asthma Sourcebook from Amazon yesterday, and while waiting for that I am wading my way through my printout of EPR-2.  Whew!  I don’t understand a lot of it, at least so far, but I am picking up from that and other sources that asthma tends to be under-diagnosed.  What I am wondering is why does it seem that primary care physicians are so reluctant to diagnose asthma and to start people on inhaled steroids, when there is a risk of permanent lung damage from uncontrolled asthma? In the cases of myself and my daughter, neither of us got inhaled steroids until we were finally referred to a pulmonologist (me) and an allergist (her).  Our respective PCP’s just gave us albuterol.  I know that many of you seem to be helped by this, but it (albuterol) did nothing for either of us, and I still don’t understand why a bronchodilator is expected to help a cough.  I am left wondering how much irreversible damage was done to our lungs in the meantime. Ann

You probably need to read the Asthma Sourcebook first, before tackling the entire EPR2, there are some patient oriented sections to start with. It would be useful to have a copy of a medical dictionary, like Mosby Medical Encyclopedia, $7.99 in paperback. You won’t find many primary care physicians who have read thru the Expert Panel Report 2 (244 pages) or even know of its existance. PCPs have to treat some 500 diseases and simply don’t have the time to keep up on all the guidelines and latest drugs. My PCP is an Assist. Clinical Prof. at the local medical school. He doesn’t hesitate to prescribe steroid inhalers when needed; I went to an allergist in the Immunology Dept for several years, so now I basically tell my PCP what I need. As long as I don’t end up in ER, and don’t wheeze too much, its OK with him. There are asthma guidelines for PCPs that are more concise. Here is my favorite: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/Asthma/Asthma.html  Asthma Management: Guidelines for the Primary Care Physician Miles Weinberger, M.D. Department of Pediatrics University of Iowa College of Medicine  Copyright 1995   Revised 1998 More guidelines based on EPR2 from the Virtual Hospital: http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/AsthmaIM/QuickRef.html Quick Reference Ellis

Response:

I ordered the Asthma Sourcebook from Amazon yesterday, and while waiting for that I am wading my way through my printout of EPR-2.  Whew!  I don’t understand a lot of it, at least so far, but I am picking up from that and other sources that asthma tends to be under-diagnosed.  What I am wondering is why does it seem that primary care physicians are so reluctant to diagnose asthma and to start people on inhaled steroids, when there is a risk of permanent lung damage from uncontrolled asthma? In the cases of myself and my daughter, neither of us got inhaled steroids until we were finally referred to a pulmonologist (me) and an allergist (her).  Our respective PCP’s just gave us albuterol.  I know that many of you seem to be helped by this, but it (albuterol) did nothing for either of us, and I still don’t understand why a bronchodilator is expected to help a cough.  I am left wondering how much irreversible damage was done to our lungs in the meantime. Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – has anyone read this book:  Reversing Asthma : Breathe Easier With This Revolutionary New Program, by Richard N. Firshein It is recommended on this web page: http://members.aol.com/_ht_b/breathelif/Asthma-Support.index.html Thanks, Ann Yeah, I have it; written by an asthma doctor (DO) with asthma. It has a lot of good advice on complementary approaches to add to conventional therapy. Dr. Firshein has been treated at National Jewish for his own asthma. He emphasizes minimizing steroid use (always a good idea) and whole body approaches. I have a library of asthma books and this is a worthwhile addition; still the best book on conventional treatment is The Asthma Sourcebook, also written by an asthma doctor (pulmonologist). And Dr. Adams also believes in minimizing steroid use. amazon.com has a list of asthma books, with reviews Ellis

Response:

has anyone read this book:  Reversing Asthma : Breathe Easier With This Revolutionary New Program, by Richard N. Firshein It is recommended on this web page: http://members.aol.com/_ht_b/breathelif/Asthma-Support.index.html Thanks, Ann

Response:

has anyone read this book:  Reversing Asthma : Breathe Easier With This Revolutionary New Program, by Richard N. Firshein It is recommended on this web page: http://members.aol.com/_ht_b/breathelif/Asthma-Support.index.html Thanks, Ann

Yeah, I have it; written by an asthma doctor (DO) with asthma. It has a lot of good advice on complementary approaches to add to conventional therapy. Dr. Firshein has been treated at National Jewish for his own asthma. He emphasizes minimizing steroid use (always a good idea) and whole body approaches. I have a library of asthma books and this is a worthwhile addition; still the best book on conventional treatment is The Asthma Sourcebook, also written by an asthma doctor (pulmonologist). And Dr. Adams also believes in minimizing steroid use. amazon.com has a list of asthma books, with reviews Ellis

Response:

Question:

There are tests.  You should go and ask your doctor for Pulmonary Functions Testing.

actualy had one has part of my HSE diving medical, but with no inhailer first. Dr (a different one) said it was excelant. Id rather not push the issue at the moment as a positive test would mean me not getting into the army… just trying to find out how likely they are to catch me out lol

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Id rather not push the issue at the moment as a positive test would mean me not getting into the army… just trying to find out how likely they are to catch me out lol

If you have any form of exercised induced asthma then it will be detected in basic training. Another thing is that CS (military strength teargas) is very bad for asthmatics.  And you will be exposed to this stuff a lot. It is a sad fact that in the military, asthma is frequently diagnosed in an emergency room, or by an autopsy.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – just a quick question, have some sympyoms and want to know if it could be asthma. i was diagnosed with it as a child, but the dr wasnt very good, as soon as he was told i had a wheez he wrote it off as asthma. everyknow and then i will have a wheezy feeling which will vanish a short while later. i also experience an urge to cough for no reason. when running i sometimes get a wheezy chest, but more usualy a tightness (sometimes nothing at all)… this will usualy pass after about 5-10 minutes of jogging and about 2-3 minutes after compleating a 1.5 mile run. when i do manage to pull something up with a caugh its usualy clear but very sticky, i’ve had 3 chest x-rays in the last 2 years and all three were clear of anything serious. i was also wondering how you would prove someone has asthma? is there some sort of test. mike

It could be asthma. Often a GP will prescribe a Ventolin inhaler for someone with symptoms like yours, to see if it helps. If it helps, it tends to support an asthma diagnosis. Asthma is diagnosed using lung function tests. Lung function is measured using a spirometer, a bronchodilator like Ventolin is administered, lung function is remeasured. A 15% improvement in lung function tends to support an asthma diagnosis. Wheezing or/and coughing can be symptoms of asthma. Exercise commonly triggers asthma in asthmatics. Chest x-rays are not used to diagnose asthma, only to rule out look alike conditions. Perhaps you need a referral to a specialist like an allergist or pulmonologist; perhaps you just need a new GP with more knowledge of asthma. If you have allergies, ask for a referral to an allergist. Allergies can cause and worsen asthma. If you have lung congestion, sinusitis or reflux could be involved. Ellis

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i was also wondering how you would prove someone has asthma? is there some sort of test.

There are tests.  You should go and ask your doctor for Pulmonary Functions Testing.

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It could be asthma. Often a GP will prescribe a Ventolin inhaler for someone with symptoms like yours, to see if it helps. If it helps, it tends to support an asthma diagnosis.

When I was first diagnosed, my GP gave me FloVent 125 and sent me on my merry way despite the fact that I was having breathing difficulties in his office.  Three days later I was back at his office asking for something for the shortness of breath which had worsened considerable since I had last seen him.  He gave me Salbutamol.  I wonder why he did it this way rather than the Salbutamol first given the obvious shortness of breath?  After 4 months of his treatment, I got a referral to a specialist and a new GP  which was the best thing I could have done. Janine

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just a quick question, have some sympyoms and want to know if it could be asthma. i was diagnosed with it as a child, but the dr wasnt very good, as soon as he was told i had a wheez he wrote it off as asthma. everyknow and then i will have a wheezy feeling which will vanish a short while later. i also experience an urge to cough for no reason. when running i sometimes get a wheezy chest, but more usualy a tightness (sometimes nothing at all)… this will usualy pass after about 5-10 minutes of jogging and about 2-3 minutes after compleating a 1.5 mile run. when i do manage to pull something up with a caugh its usualy clear but very sticky, i’ve had 3 chest x-rays in the last 2 years and all three were clear of anything serious. i was also wondering how you would prove someone has asthma? is there some sort of test. thanks, mike

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