Question:

Hi Everyone, This is very new to me.  A friend told me about this sight awhile back,  but just posted my first messages.  This is my first to the group.  I am hoping to get support from others may suffer as I.  I have been diagnosed recently with Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease.  Had a lip biopsy last week to rule out Sjogren’s, will get the results in 2 weeks.  I have been going through many doctors and major tests  for 2 years now with very few answers except it is an auto-immune disease of some sort.  I suffer from low grade fevers daily for 4 months now and have had off and on unexplained fevers the last 2 years.  I also have body aches, both muscular and joint.  I am very fatigued, kind of flu feeling but not if that makes sense.  I have had a lot of shortness of breath  with a dry cough as well.  The doctors say that is due to asthma but never have had trouble before.  Depression and sleep deprivation is are big ones.  One doctor told me my lack of sleep was Restless Leg Syndrome or RLS due to a sleep study, but my husband says I don’t kick at night.  Recently started on klonopin to help me sleep for the RLS and it has helped with the sleep deprivation and lexapro for the depression.  I think the depression comes with  suffering with unexplained symptoms I have. Was wondering what others due for their symptoms to help? Looking forward to getting to know people here in this support group. Angie

Response:

Hi Angie, Welcome to the group. I am glad that you decided to join us. I know how hard it is when you have a lot of problems, but not all of the answers. It often takes a long time and much patience. One thing I would like to discuss is your RLS. This can be caused by low B12 levels. You may want to have your doctor check for that. Have you had a lot of blood work done? You are welcome to post the results here, if you like. A number of people are good at interpreting them for you. Please talk to us anytime. There is usually someone around to talk, or just listen. BJ-Sk. Canada "A. Williams" <ajwillia…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:sZqdnSM46u4JeTuiRVn-uw@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Everyone, This is very new to me.  A friend told me about this sight awhile back,

but

just posted my first messages.  This is my first to the group.  I am

hoping

to get support from others may suffer as I.  I have been diagnosed

recently

with Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease.  Had a lip biopsy last

week

to rule out Sjogren’s, will get the results in 2 weeks.  I have been going through many doctors and major tests  for 2 years now with very few

answers

except it is an auto-immune disease of some sort.  I suffer from low grade fevers daily for 4 months now and have had off and on unexplained fevers

the

last 2 years.  I also have body aches, both muscular and joint.  I am very fatigued, kind of flu feeling but not if that makes sense.  I have had a

lot

of shortness of breath  with a dry cough as well.  The doctors say that is due to asthma but never have had trouble before.  Depression and sleep deprivation is are big ones.  One doctor told me my lack of sleep was Restless Leg Syndrome or RLS due to a sleep study, but my husband says I don’t kick at night.  Recently started on klonopin to help me sleep for

the

RLS and it has helped with the sleep deprivation and lexapro for the depression.  I think the depression comes with  suffering with unexplained symptoms I have. Was wondering what others due for their symptoms to help? Looking forward to getting to know people here in this support group. Angie

Response:

J Thanks, Ok let me try to answer all the questions you had for me. First my Rd thinks I have UCTD because he says I have multiple sx of it, but all labs like Sed. Rate and ANA have been negative as well as blood for Sjogren’s.  That is why I recently had a lip biopsy to rule that out.  I do have fibro., but my Rd says my low-grade fevers probably aren’t from that. He thinks my fibro. is secondary to what ever primary is going on.  I am going to have my B12 check the next time I have my blood drawn.  Tried taking B12 supp. but I found my body to be sensitive to them.  If my labs come back showing I need it, I have the option to try shots.  I was told that a symptom of RLS would possibly be kicking but I don’t kick around.  I do how ever get leg aches, very slight twitching and odd feeling when trying to sleep.  Sometimes it even wakes me up.  My sleep study did show RLS so that is why my RD put me on Klonopin.  Boy do I sleep well now.  That has been a blessing.  I think now that I am sleep I am feeling better.  I also take the Lexapro for my depression I have gotten through all this.  I find it a big help also.  I think my dryness my be from these two med. and I too drink a ton of water to stay hydrated. I have been also seeing a pulmonary doctor for my asthma.  She was the one who did a pulmonary function test to determine what my SOB was caused from.  I am on asthma meds. for that now as well.  They help slightly but still have SOB from time to time.  My cough had gotten better but now has returned.  I think that my be from fires and dry winds we have had here in Colo. I have an appointment Monday for a chest x-ray just to be sure.  Anyway  last a thyroid disorder has been ruled out. I appreciate all your feed back and look forward to talking with you soon. Angie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Glad your Sjorgen’s came out negative. To a hammer is a nail..meaning an RD or a specific newsgroup finds

commonalities

to their specialty. What bloodwork makes the RD think you have UCTD? I’d have to look up low grade fevers. I think some of the fibro people

have

those too. I don’t have low grade fevers. I’d be chasing that one down. You definitely should get checked for B12 .  I can’t take the B complexes either. I was dx’d with RLS and myoclonus and nobody ever checked my B12

until

the symptoms got very bad.  Some have to take B12 for life, some like me

get

about 10 shots  and then we’re ‘topped up" for a while. Fibro isn’t autoimmune but has many of the symptoms you mention above.

How do I

know?  I have fibro.  RLS isn’t kicking.  Myoclonus is. I have both. They both respond to Klonopin.  Both Klonopin and lexapro can have dry

mouth

associated with them. I drink lots of water. Shortness of breath and cough can be cough variant asthma. It can strike

at any

time. A pulmonologist should rule some things out, after you have..like

dry air,

mouth breathing…not enough fluids…dust.. I’ve just been dusting this

week.

Was thyroid problems ruled out? Maybe if you treat the asthma also, you’d sleep a bit better?  Some of us

here

have COPD which is an umbrella term for something obstructing the lungs.

Did

you have a chest x-ray? How’s the lexapro working? Helping you sleep also? Here’s the scoop on each http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/lexapro_ids.htm http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clonaz_ad.htm Hope you get things sorted out soon, so you can get your wish and go back

to

school I forget what else I was going to type. Bye for now J

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"A. Williams" wrote:

Ok let me try to answer all the questions you had for me. First my Rd thinks I have UCTD because he says I have multiple sx of it, but all labs like Sed. Rate and ANA have been negative as well as blood for Sjogren’s.  That is why I recently had a lip biopsy to rule that out.  I do have fibro., but my Rd says my low-grade fevers probably aren’t from that. He thinks my fibro. is secondary to what ever primary is going on.  I am going to have my B12 check the next time I have my blood drawn.  Tried taking B12 supp. but I found my body to be sensitive to them.  If my labs come back showing I need it, I have the option to try shots.  I was told that a symptom of RLS would possibly be kicking but I don’t kick around.  I do how ever get leg aches, very slight twitching and odd feeling when trying to sleep.  Sometimes it even wakes me up.  My sleep study did show RLS so that is why my RD put me on Klonopin.  Boy do I sleep well now.  That has been a blessing.  I think now that I am sleep I am feeling better.  I also take the Lexapro for my depression I have gotten through all this.  I find it a big help also.  I think my dryness my be from these two med. and I too drink a ton of water to stay hydrated. I have been also seeing a pulmonary doctor for my asthma.  She was the one who did a pulmonary function test to determine what my SOB was caused from.  I am on asthma meds. for that now as well.  They help slightly but still have SOB from time to time.  My cough had gotten better but now has returned.  I think that my be from fires and dry winds we have had here in Colo. I have an appointment Monday for a chest x-ray just to be sure.  Anyway  last a thyroid disorder has been ruled out. I appreciate all your feed back and look forward to talking with you soon.

Thanks for your reply Angie, glad you’re getting the lungs and B12 checked out. HOpe those fires near you quit soon. hugs J

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"A. Williams" wrote:

This is very new to me.  A friend told me about this sight awhile back,  but just posted my first messages.  This is my first to the group.  I am hoping to get support from others may suffer as I.  I have been diagnosed recently with Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease.  Had a lip biopsy last week to rule out Sjogren’s, will get the results in 2 weeks.  I have been going through many doctors and major tests  for 2 years now with very few answers except it is an auto-immune disease of some sort.  I suffer from low grade fevers daily for 4 months now and have had off and on unexplained fevers the last 2 years.  I also have body aches, both muscular and joint.  I am very fatigued, kind of flu feeling but not if that makes sense.  I have had a lot of shortness of breath  with a dry cough as well.  The doctors say that is due to asthma but never have had trouble before.  Depression and sleep deprivation is are big ones.  One doctor told me my lack of sleep was Restless Leg Syndrome or RLS due to a sleep study, but my husband says I don’t kick at night.  Recently started on klonopin to help me sleep for the RLS and it has helped with the sleep deprivation and lexapro for the depression.  I think the depression comes with  suffering with unexplained symptoms I have. Was wondering what others due for their symptoms to help?

Hi Angie, Glad your Sjorgen’s came out negative. To a hammer is a nail..meaning an RD or a specific newsgroup finds commonalities to their specialty. What bloodwork makes the RD think you have UCTD? I’d have to look up low grade fevers. I think some of the fibro people have those too. I don’t have low grade fevers. I’d be chasing that one down. You definitely should get checked for B12 .  I can’t take the B complexes either. I was dx’d with RLS and myoclonus and nobody ever checked my B12 until the symptoms got very bad.  Some have to take B12 for life, some like me get about 10 shots  and then we’re ‘topped up" for a while. Fibro isn’t autoimmune but has many of the symptoms you mention above.  How do I know?  I have fibro.  RLS isn’t kicking.  Myoclonus is. I have both. They both respond to Klonopin.  Both Klonopin and lexapro can have dry mouth associated with them. I drink lots of water. Shortness of breath and cough can be cough variant asthma. It can strike at any time. A pulmonologist should rule some things out, after you have..like dry air, mouth breathing…not enough fluids…dust.. I’ve just been dusting this week. Was thyroid problems ruled out? Maybe if you treat the asthma also, you’d sleep a bit better?  Some of us here have COPD which is an umbrella term for something obstructing the lungs.   Did you have a chest x-ray? How’s the lexapro working? Helping you sleep also? Here’s the scoop on each http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/lexapro_ids.htm http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clonaz_ad.htm Hope you get things sorted out soon, so you can get your wish and go back to school I forget what else I was going to type. Bye for now J

Response:

A. Williams wrote:

Hi Everyone, This is very new to me.  A friend told me about this sight awhile back,  but just posted my first messages.  This is my first to the group.  I am hoping to get support from others may suffer as I.  I have been diagnosed recently with Undifferentiated Connective Tissue Disease.

<snip

Hi Angie, I too was dxed with UCTD about a year ago.  I had the same symptoms you did, along with missed periods, hair loss and extreme dizziness.  It was something awful, I was completely useless.  But I found an RD who is treating my UCTD and is very open to trying new meds and going with what works, and not only on what the labs say.  So far I have found Prednisone and Atabrine (an antimalarial, also called Quinacrine- a distant cousin to Plaquenil) to be my drugs of choice.  Without these meds I can’t function, and was seriously considering taking a leave again from college. This is a great ng.  Welcome and do post again! -Sharon — "Don’t make me come down there…"                            -God

Response:

Thank you for the responses BJ and Sharon.   I have not had my B12 tested but was put on B-complex vitamins high in B12.  I had a sensitivity to it and found I could not take it, that is why they went ahead my RD put me on klonopin for RLS.  I even tried a lower dose of just B12 but found I could not take that either.  Have discussed possible B shots. I have found a good RD, finally,  that is open to treating my symptoms not what the labs show. My next step, depending on lip biopsy results is to start on prednisone and possibly plaquenil.  I too have had hair loss and off and on dizziness. Getting sleep finally had helped a little but I am looking forward to the days I can function again.  I am not currently working.  I was staying home with kids but they are old enough now I could work but with all my aches I feel I can’t function enough to do work.  Also I have contemplated going back to school but I am waiting till I feel better.  Thanks for the prayers all. Angie

Response:

Hi Angie and welcome, I didn’t know you were new to the group when you posted about the lip biopsy, since I’m fairly new myself. How’s your incision doing now? Mine is healing, although it looked awful the first days. Your symptoms do sound a bit like the ones of my mum, who has primary Sj

Question:

Broke Keyboard,….(long silence)…. well Damo, glad you’re back.     I took about 700 pictures today and yesterday. I’m attempting to do an inventory of my belongings while the light is good. I have to grab a small fold-up table, a reading stand that lets books lay there at a 30 degree angle or so, and a tripod, my dcam, and a Rubbermaid Bucket of CD’s to take Front, Inside, CD, and Back photos of. I even did floppies (2 at a time). I pile all that stuff in my trunk and drive the quarter mile to my parents house and then walk all that stuff to their front porch and that is where my photo studio is. I went after 6:40pm tonight and the sunlight shown on my camera and made the camera too reflective to the subjects (CD’s in cases) I was snapping so I had to quit. When the sun shines on the North side of the porch, MAN that sun is setting way far NORTH!, I have to quit because of the excess reflections. It was 85 degrees today, so I have to take care not drip all over the place. My pictures are coming out well. They look good on the big 17" computer screen. I’m not going to print all this stuff up, I need to reduce the paper pileup in my life. But I only have 1.3GB left on the partition I’m using, then I’ll have to burn slideshows of all these pictures onto CD’s, then delete them from the hard drive to make room for more pictures. 221 pictures takes 128 MB at 768 x 1024 resolution. I have a program (Irfanview) that can make 6" x 8" prints on regular paper out of my shots, but I need to shop for more appropriate photo paper.     While cleaning windows I found out that Windshield Wiper Fluid, when left in an open container in an apartment while awaiting further use by a $1 squeegee, gives off Carbon Monoxide gasses and it set off my CO alarm at 75 ppm during a 90 minute period. It takes several hours for the CO to subside, even with good ventilation into the room and the offending chemical removed. I had to go buy another gallon of it tonight since I ran out while cleaning my car’s windshields and then applying some Rain-X. There are these trees in my parking lot that just precipitate sap in a kind of mist along with an inch of buds that fall over the course of a week. These trees are good shade for the apartments, but bad news for any car parked under them; about two-thirds of the cars parked here are under these trees.     Next time I clean my windows and Venetian blinds, I will divvy the job up into 4 different days and maybe 3 days apart for each day worked. My legs turned to Jell-O after working on 2 of the 4 window sets in one day. I was physically debilitated for the next 2 days and just stayed in bed. I cannot handle these deep knee bends at all. I finished yesterday and today my legs are just making me creek around like a 70 year old codger. I’m disgusted with my lack of in-shapeness.     Heck, I’m going into coughing convulsions just when I eat meals. The aroma of food gets into my lungs and irritates something deep within and I am coughing like I need a Heimlich Maneuver. I had X-Rays taken on this but they found nothing, or so they say. I should go back to the doctor and see if he has more than 5 minutes of time for the $60 charge he put on my insurance bill just for visiting last time.

Response:

Cymbal Man Freq. wrote:

When the sun shines on the North side of the porch, MAN that sun is setting way far NORTH!

Are you in the southern hemisphere?  There is no way the sun can be north of zenith in the northern hemisphere, unless the earth’s axis has changed dramatically while I wasn’t looking. Hannibal

Response:

"HerbsAcadiana" <herbsacadi…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20030805080807.02838.00001199@mb-m19.aol.com…

Subject: De Blah. Photo Shutterbugging and Cleaning Windows Projects and suffocating on food aromas. From: "Cymbal Man Freq." How about a cloth car cover to protect your car?

I know nothing about that & it would surely need daily washings. Where would I store this sticky mass of cloth? I can’t put it in my trunk or bring it indoors and there is no garage. I was thinking about getting some hail-resistant padding cover that can be put on my car when hail is forcast for my area, or I see it coming down a mile away. I’d have to park my car in the 1/3rd of the spots in the lot that aren’t tree-sappy precipitous and put this padding-cover on. I don’t know where to find this kind of hail-resistant covering though.

I take my Venetian blinds outside and just hose them down-you could do a few

each time you wash the car.

I could wash them in the shower too, but the plastic thingies that slide off and allow removal of the blinds seem to be painted or locked into place on 4 of the 8 blinds. I cannot remove the ones that won’t budge.

I have a condition called "Cough Variant Asthma," and the same thing occurs.

I’ve never heard of this, could you tell me more? I do have a low-level wheezing (like one air sac has a problem) when I wake up. Then I down a swig of diet soda and I go into coughing spasms and wind up with more intense wheezing (the bottom third of my lungs) thoughout the day. I’m vacuuming and dusting and hoping that helps, but just the thought of coughing to death on my food makes me think that there is more to my problem. Last night I went to Wendy’s and brought my food home, because they instituted a new No Refills Policy and I have plenty of soda cheaper at home; but now that I think about it, I need to eat my fast food at home so I don’t bring on the SARS Police from having a coughing fit in the restaurant.

When you get through cleaning over there you can come over here.  I’m stuck in

the "Staring at All I Have to Do," zombi phase. So where are you Henrietta? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Henrietta

Response:

Subject: De Blah. Photo Shutterbugging and Cleaning Windows Projects and suffocating on food aromas. From: "Cymbal Man Freq." (Snipped) There are these trees in my parking lot that just precipitate sap in a kind of mist along with an inch of buds that fall over the course of a week.

How about a cloth car cover to protect your car?

   Next time I clean my windows and Venetian blinds, I will divvy the job up into 4 different days and maybe 3 days apart for each day worked.

I take my Venetian blinds outside and just hose them down-you could do a few each time you wash the car.

(Snipped)  I’m going into coughing convulsions just when I eat meals. The aroma

of food gets into my lungs and irritates something deep within and I am coughing

I have a condition called "Cough Variant Asthma," and the same thing occurs. When you get through cleaning over there you can come over here.  I’m stuck in the "Staring at All I Have to Do," zombi phase. Henrietta

Response:

Question:

GT wrote:

I also have frequent bronchitious simultaneously/closely related to sinusitus recurrences. No matter what, the infections always come back.  It seems my immune system is weakened (just had a negative HIV test 2 years ago and troubles started before then).  

That’s not unheard of. As a last resort, when all else has failed, you ought to go for a complete immunological workup. There’s stuff about it on Dr. Tichenor’s website www.sinuses.com Basically an immunologist specialist can measure the antibodies in your blood, particularly those that are known to be effective against respiratory infections.  They can also measure your antibodies both before and after being inoculated with pneumococcus ("pneumovax" vaccine), and before and after being inoculated with Hemophilus influenzae ("PRP" vaccine), to see if your immune system has responded to these challenges adequately. Search the Internet for "Common Variable Immunodeficiency (CVID)" "Functional Antibody Deficiency" Often the only overt symptoms of these genetic predispositions, are repeated sinus infections and bronchitis infections. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

"GT" <IGETTOOMUCHSPAMgaryta…@yahooDELETEUPPERCASE.com

wrote in message

news:bgooav403tfr604flothev7jvo8k45dfq5@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

<snip previous response And what about Vitamin C?  Are you making sure you’re getting enough?

There

seems to be some indication that we need far more C than we’re getting.

For

more info, go to: www.cforyourself.com Plenty of information there plus links to research done by other

scientists.

After reading gobs of material on this subject I’m convinced that we do

need

more than we have been told previously.  It’s not a miracle worker, but large doses of C simply provides your immune system with some necessary

raw

materials.  Without it, your immune system simply will not work as it’s intended. John I take One-A-Day vitamins, which are 150% of recommended Vit C.  When really bad, I take Schiff "daily Support Immunolin", which contains another 100% in addition to the Echninacea, and Andrographis, plus the normal diet plus the herbal teas, some of which contain vitamin C, plus normal fruits/cereals etc. So this adds up to at leat 300mg.  Am I correct in reading that I should increase this by a factor of 10? Lotsa popups don’t exactly give me confidence.

There is varying opinion on this but from what I’ve read it seems that the average person actually requires anywhere from 5-10 grams a day under normal circumstances!  I know, that sounds like a lot but the research I read explained the need for such high doses very well.  Now, when you’re ill you need quite a bit more because it gets used up rather quickly.  This increased dosage during illness could be anywhere from 20 or 30 grams a day up to 50 or 60+.  Some doctors give sodium or calcium ascorbate (don’t recall which) intravenously at dosages from 200-300 grams a day for seriously ill patients. Interestingly, you can tell when you’re getting too much because you get diarrhea.  Well, it’s not really diarrhea but the end result (no pun intended) is similar.  Simply take as much as it requires to begin seeing these signs and then back off a bit until the intestinal disturbances subside.  This is the only way to tell if you’re getting enough because your daily requirements will vary wildly depending on your health. For example, I usually take around 5-10 grams a day but I’m fighting off a bad chest cold and I can take more with no problem.  I started the day with 6 grams and I’ve been taking 2-3 grams per hour since with no problem.  I could probably increase that a bit but I think I’m very close to the right amount.  It’s not an exact science. Start off with a couple of grams one day and then increase the dosage until you see intestinal issues.  Some people don’t handle large amounts of ascorbic acid very well because of the acidity.  If this is you, you can try sodium ascorbate, ester-C, or calcium ascorbate, all of which should do the trick quite nicely. I’ve already mentioned www.cforyourself.com.  Here are a few of other resources: http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Nutrition/vitcpre.htm http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM4.html http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/ http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm Regards, John

Response:

There are a whole host of conditions that cause frequent sinuitis and bronchitis that fail to clear well. some of these are related to the cilia not moving effectively – one is called Young’s disease. Your doctor might want to check on your cilia movement. Fortunately these are rare conditions, most in small print in the textbooks. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

On 29 Apr 2003 16:40:12 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote:

There are a whole host of conditions that cause frequent sinuitis and bronchitis that fail to clear well. some of these are related to the cilia not moving effectively – one is called Young’s disease. Your doctor might want to check on your cilia movement. Fortunately these are rare conditions, most in small print in the textbooks. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

I’ll check with my ENT on my next visit, but my reasoning is due to the other symptoms.  We always attributed the bronchitis to a side-effect of my never-ending sinus problems.  Well, I think the sinus problems are solved, but the bronchitis is worse than ever. Plus the other symptoms like the onset age, the GI problems that I always attributed to being always on medicine….. I have (and will continue) irrigating, but my sinuses just aren’t showing any signs of infection. Nothing comes out but saline. But I am still coughing up stuff especially in the morning. No, I no longer believe the sinuses are the root of my problems. Sadly.  I wish they were, because I would be cured. Of course, that is assuming I can actually find an immunologist.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -GT wrote:

On 29 Apr 2003 16:40:12 GMT, entcons…@aol.comnospam (ENTconsult) wrote: There are a whole host of conditions that cause frequent sinuitis and bronchitis that fail to clear well. some of these are related to the cilia not moving effectively – one is called Young’s disease. Your doctor might want to check on your cilia movement. Fortunately these are rare conditions, most in small print in the textbooks. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/ I’ll check with my ENT on my next visit, but my reasoning is due to the other symptoms.  We always attributed the bronchitis to a side-effect of my never-ending sinus problems.  Well, I think the sinus problems are solved, but the bronchitis is worse than ever. Plus the other symptoms like the onset age, the GI problems that I always attributed to being always on medicine….. I have (and will continue) irrigating, but my sinuses just aren’t showing any signs of infection. Nothing comes out but saline. But I am still coughing up stuff especially in the morning.

In that case, I may have some more bad news for you.   You may be heading for the same boat that I’m in.  Namely, if recurrent sinusitis gives you acute bronchitis (bronchial infection) enough times, eventually your bronchial tubes will become permanently inflamed and then you will have chronic bronchitis–permanently–just like me.  Or you can get adult-onset cough-variant asthma.  Or both. Most cases of chronic bronchitis are caused by cigarette smoking.  But just about any continuous irritant (such as repeated infection) will eventually cause chronic bronchitis. You need to discuss that with your physician too.  If chronic bronchitis is suspected, a referral to a pulmonologist is also in order.

No, I no longer believe the sinuses are the root of my problems. Sadly.  I wish they were, because I would be cured. Of course, that is assuming I can actually find an immunologist.

If you have already damaged your lungs with all these bronchial infections, then the immunologist won’t be able to help you.  A CT scan of your lungs will reveal if there has been scarring from all the infections and coughing. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

I’m close to Philly.  One option I’ve heard advertised on KYW frequently in the past was a referral line for Jefferson Hospital.  I believe it was 215-JEFF NOW.  It’s been a bit though.  Could also be 800 or 610 area codes. Harold R. Spatz 877 800-0773 Independent Dealer <A HREF="http://www.biozonescientific.com"

Biozone Scientific Air and

Water Solutions</A

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:57:09 -0400, GT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<IGETTOOMUCHSPAMgaryta…@yahooDELETEUPPERCASE.com

wrote: On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:29:21 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net wrote: GT wrote: I also have frequent bronchitious simultaneously/closely related to sinusitus recurrences. No matter what, the infections always come back.  It seems my immune system is weakened (just had a negative HIV test 2 years ago and troubles started before then).   That’s not unheard of. As a last resort, when all else has failed, you ought to go for a complete immunological workup. There’s stuff about it on Dr. Tichenor’s website www.sinuses.com Basically an immunologist specialist can measure the antibodies in your blood, particularly those that are known to be effective against respiratory infections.  They can also measure your antibodies both before and after being inoculated with pneumococcus ("pneumovax" vaccine), and before and after being inoculated with Hemophilus influenzae ("PRP" vaccine), to see if your immune system has responded to these challenges adequately. Search the Internet for "Common Variable Immunodeficiency (CVID)" "Functional Antibody Deficiency" Often the only overt symptoms of these genetic predispositions, are repeated sinus infections and bronchitis infections. Boy, this sounds scarily like me.  I’m calling my GP tomorrow to start the referral process.  Anyone know a good immunologist in the Philadelphia area?  I took a quick look at the Penn web site and was not encouraged, looked like allergists to me.

Response:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 16:42:45 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net

wrote:

This immunology stuff seems to be more of an art than a science.  My immunologist disagreed with both Dr. Tichenor’s recommended tests, and his interpretation of the test results (just how much of an antibody titer response is "adequate"?). And from my surfing of the Internet, responsible medical websites have differing recommendations as to how to interpret immunology test results.

Also you may need to try to answer the question as to whether unusual results are  (1) a cause or (2) a result of long-standing sinusitis. It might be the latter case.

Response:

<snip for brevity

Thanks for the thoughts.  I do know that my GI system is already fragile, but it is certainly "food" for thought and research.

Response:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:29:21 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<sdlit…@earthlink.net

wrote: GT wrote: I also have frequent bronchitious simultaneously/closely related to sinusitus recurrences. No matter what, the infections always come back.  It seems my immune system is weakened (just had a negative HIV test 2 years ago and troubles started before then).   That’s not unheard of. As a last resort, when all else has failed, you ought to go for a complete immunological workup. There’s stuff about it on Dr. Tichenor’s website www.sinuses.com Basically an immunologist specialist can measure the antibodies in your blood, particularly those that are known to be effective against respiratory infections.  They can also measure your antibodies both before and after being inoculated with pneumococcus ("pneumovax" vaccine), and before and after being inoculated with Hemophilus influenzae ("PRP" vaccine), to see if your immune system has responded to these challenges adequately. Search the Internet for "Common Variable Immunodeficiency (CVID)" "Functional Antibody Deficiency" Often the only overt symptoms of these genetic predispositions, are repeated sinus infections and bronchitis infections.

Boy, this sounds scarily like me.  I’m calling my GP tomorrow to start the referral process.  Anyone know a good immunologist in the Philadelphia area?  I took a quick look at the Penn web site and was not encouraged, looked like allergists to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don Brady wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:42:04 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net BTW, Don, my own immunological workup showed my own immune system isn’t so hot either. The antibody titer showed that I only responded rather borderline (just barely) to the pneumococcal challenge.  And my antibody count against H. influenzae was very low (but not zero), showing that I had indeed had that infection and didn’t respond well to it.  My immunologist was intrigued enough to order a special H. influenzae challenge vaccine ("PRP"), to challenge me with it to see how my immune system responds to it.  I’m currently waiting to do the post titer. (For those who don’t know, H. influenzae is a common cause of bacterial respiratory infections like acute sinusitis.) Very interesting. Please let us know the further results.

This immunology stuff seems to be more of an art than a science.  My immunologist disagreed with both Dr. Tichenor’s recommended tests, and his interpretation of the test results (just how much of an antibody titer response is "adequate"?). And from my surfing of the Internet, responsible medical websites have differing recommendations as to how to interpret immunology test results. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote in message

news:f9dpav4sshsmul0c51nbcs358e57lue3j5@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:54:00 GMT, "John Neiberger" <ne…@attbi.com

wrote:

That’s correct, but I wasn’t suggesting it was a therapy for sinusitis

even

though there are other references that suggest that it is.  My first

posting

was suggesting that larger doses of ascorbic acid might be useful for improving the immune system in general. As I recall, the original poster seemed to be suffering from a suppressed or depressed immune system.  In addition to seeing an immunologist there may be a few steps he can take

on

his own.  I suggested that perhaps additional ascorbic acid might be one

of

those steps. I think he would be better to stick to mainstream diagnosis and therapy

than

far-out possibilities that are quite likely to deflect him from getting

same. That’s why I’ve gone to great lengths to encourage others to do their own research.  There is a tremendous amount of information available on this subject, and more than enough to suggest that larger doses of ascorbic acid might have be of tremendous benefit.  I fail to see how that knowledge would deflect someone from also seeing an immunologist, which others have also recommended. Would you have said the same thing to the first sailors to learn that eating lemons helped them to avoid scurvy?  I can imagine a lot of people thought that was ridiculous and suggested they stick to the accepted forms of medicine.  :-)  But I digress.  I never once suggested that the choice had to be one or the other.  Is there a reason why one can’t take additional ascorbic acid while seeing an immunologist? Is it ‘far-out’ to suggest that there are chemicals and nutrients that our bodies need, and when the need is greater than the supply then we should increase intake of those particular chemicals?  That part seems to be common sense.  The disagreement is on the dosage, and there’s enough material on that from research scientists and practicing physicians to keep you reading for hours.

Response:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 05:11:18 GMT, sleepl…@nospam.org wrote:

Oh yeah taking vimin C is a really "far-out" thing to do.. sigh..

The way to treat sinus problems is (a) Diagnosis and (b) Appropriate therapy If you start applying random therapies of dubious value before you have even diagnosed the undelying cause, you are usually not helping yourself. I stopped taking antioxidants when the research started indicating they are as likely to increase your risks of cancer as anything else.

Response:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:54:00 GMT, "John Neiberger" <ne…@attbi.com

wrote: That’s correct, but I wasn’t suggesting it was a therapy for sinusitis even though there are other references that suggest that it is.  My first posting was suggesting that larger doses of ascorbic acid might be useful for improving the immune system in general. As I recall, the original poster seemed to be suffering from a suppressed or depressed immune system.  In addition to seeing an immunologist there may be a few steps he can take on his own.  I suggested that perhaps additional ascorbic acid might be one of those steps.

I think he would be better to stick to mainstream diagnosis and therapy than far-out possibilities that are quite likely to deflect him from getting same.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote in message On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:02:56 GMT, "John Neiberger" <ne…@attbi.com

wrote:

Regarding this point, the following link has some very interesting information.  I included it before but I’ll mention it again: http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM4.html It would also be fruitful to research the works of Cathcart, Klenner, and Pauling in this area.  At this point, while remaining open-minded to any

new

information, I’m convinced that if L-gulonolactone oxidase were not

missing

from primates due to genetic damage, we’d produce several grams of

ascorbic

acid a day from glucuronic acid. It’s a research hypothesis or theory (as your reference says), not

anything

that’s established as a therapy for sinusitis.

That’s correct, but I wasn’t suggesting it was a therapy for sinusitis even though there are other references that suggest that it is.  My first posting was suggesting that larger doses of ascorbic acid might be useful for improving the immune system in general. As I recall, the original poster seemed to be suffering from a suppressed or depressed immune system.  In addition to seeing an immunologist there may be a few steps he can take on his own.  I suggested that perhaps additional ascorbic acid might be one of those steps.

Response:

"ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam

wrote in message There are two problems with takng more than 500 mg of vitamin c a day. a. many persons get upset stomach b. we don’t know for certain what negative or positive effect a dose

larger

than 1000 mg might have.

Regarding this point, the following link has some very interesting information.  I included it before but I’ll mention it again: http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM4.html It would also be fruitful to research the works of Cathcart, Klenner, and Pauling in this area.  At this point, while remaining open-minded to any new information, I’m convinced that if L-gulonolactone oxidase were not missing from primates due to genetic damage, we’d produce several grams of ascorbic acid a day from glucuronic acid.

Response:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:02:56 GMT, "John Neiberger" <ne…@attbi.com

wrote: Regarding this point, the following link has some very interesting information.  I included it before but I’ll mention it again: http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/JOM4.html It would also be fruitful to research the works of Cathcart, Klenner, and Pauling in this area.  At this point, while remaining open-minded to any new information, I’m convinced that if L-gulonolactone oxidase were not missing from primates due to genetic damage, we’d produce several grams of ascorbic acid a day from glucuronic acid.

It’s a research hypothesis or theory (as your reference says), not anything that’s established as a therapy for sinusitis.

Response:

GT wrote:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:35:55 -0400, Don Brady <dbr…@pobox.com wrote: Have you had blood tests for thyroid, white blood cell count, B12 level, and folic acid level? I’ve had "normal" blood tests all normal.  Who orders these tests (GP,ENT, allergist, some other specialist). Thanks!

You need to see an immunologist who knows how to evaluate you for immune deficiency disorders like Common Variable Immunodeficiency (CVID) and Functional Antibody Deficiency. "Any patients with chronic sinusitis [and/or repeated bronchitis infections], which is poorly responsive to treatment [and surgery], should have an extensive immunological evaluation including immunoglobulin levels, possible IgG subtypes, and antibody testing. Pneumococcal, diphtheria, and tetanus antibodies should be tested before and after Pneumovax and diphtheria/tetanus immunizations. Evaluation should be done by an immunologist familiar with testing as results can be difficult to interpret. Briefly, 12 different subtypes of the pneumococcal antigen should ideally be tested with an adequate rise in the antibody titer to determine that the patient has responded to the vaccine. In cases where an immunodeficiency is found, monthly immunoglobulin (IVIG) therapy may need to be initiated." http://www.sinuses.com/search_site.cgi?fname=postsurg.htm&db=s&skw=an… Believe me, a good immunologist isn’t easy to find.  Many who claim to be, are just glorified allergists.  You need to find one who knows immune disorders.  Ask. My immunologist substituted a challenge with Hemophilus Influenza ("PRP" vaccine) for the diphtheria/tetanus challenge.  I’m currently waiting for the post titer. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

Don Brady wrote:

Have you had blood tests for thyroid, white blood cell count, B12 level, and folic acid level?

BTW, Don, my own immunological workup showed my own immune system isn’t so hot either. The antibody titer showed that I only responded rather borderline (just barely) to the pneumococcal challenge.  And my antibody count against H. influenzae was very low (but not zero), showing that I had indeed had that infection and didn’t respond well to it.  My immunologist was intrigued enough to order a special H. influenzae challenge vaccine ("PRP"), to challenge me with it to see how my immune system responds to it.  I’m currently waiting to do the post titer. (For those who don’t know, H. influenzae is a common cause of bacterial respiratory infections like acute sinusitis.) — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:42:04 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net

BTW, Don, my own immunological workup showed my own immune system isn’t so hot either. The antibody titer showed that I only responded rather borderline (just barely) to the pneumococcal challenge.  And my antibody count against H. influenzae was very low (but not zero), showing that I had indeed had that infection and didn’t respond well to it.  My immunologist was intrigued enough to order a special H. influenzae challenge vaccine ("PRP"), to challenge me with it to see how my immune system responds to it.  I’m currently waiting to do the post titer. (For those who don’t know, H. influenzae is a common cause of bacterial respiratory infections like acute sinusitis.)

Very interesting.   Please let us know the further results.

Response:

There are two problems with takng more than 500 mg of vitamin c a day. a. many persons get upset stomach b. we don’t know for certain what negative or positive effect a dose larger than 1000 mg might have. I have read glowing reports re large doses of B12, but till there is evidence that this isn’t harmful I pass on recommending this. the first thing to check is thyroid. Low thyroid will slow mucociliary clearance. The next is to be sure that the antibiotic you take is form a culture/ sensitivity  from the sinus cavity itself. Today it is not unusual to see patients after 3 courses of antibiotics to which the germ was resistant. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

Have you had blood tests for thyroid, white blood cell count, B12 level, and folic acid level?

Response:

"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote in message

news:fsjmavcdeb8o40vql01cat5c98cmlf47j8@4ax.com…

Have you had blood tests for thyroid, white blood cell count, B12 level,

and

folic acid level?

And what about Vitamin C?  Are you making sure you’re getting enough?  There seems to be some indication that we need far more C than we’re getting.  For more info, go to: www.cforyourself.com Plenty of information there plus links to research done by other scientists. After reading gobs of material on this subject I’m convinced that we do need more than we have been told previously.  It’s not a miracle worker, but large doses of C simply provides your immune system with some necessary raw materials.  Without it, your immune system simply will not work as it’s intended. John

Response:

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:35:55 -0400, Don Brady <dbr…@pobox.com

wrote:

Have you had blood tests for thyroid, white blood cell count, B12 level, and folic acid level?

I’ve had "normal" blood tests all normal.  Who orders these tests (GP,ENT, allergist, some other specialist). Thanks!

Response:

<snip previous response

And what about Vitamin C?  Are you making sure you’re getting enough?  There seems to be some indication that we need far more C than we’re getting.  For more info, go to: www.cforyourself.com Plenty of information there plus links to research done by other scientists. After reading gobs of material on this subject I’m convinced that we do need more than we have been told previously.  It’s not a miracle worker, but large doses of C simply provides your immune system with some necessary raw materials.  Without it, your immune system simply will not work as it’s intended. John

I take One-A-Day vitamins, which are 150% of recommended Vit C.  When really bad, I take Schiff "daily Support Immunolin", which contains another 100% in addition to the Echninacea, and Andrographis, plus the normal diet plus the herbal teas, some of which contain vitamin C, plus normal fruits/cereals etc. So this adds up to at leat 300mg.  Am I correct in reading that I should increase this by a factor of 10? Lotsa popups don’t exactly give me confidence.

Response:

I have chronic sinusitis despite following just about every thing I’ve been told by docs and in this newsgroups (and my docs haven’t been lazy.  I’m now past the gentamycin irrigation and know that my ent has further treatment possibilities coming up because I am certain more are to come).  An incomplete list of stuff I’ve had poked prodded tried : I irrigate often, sterilize the equipment, mix the irrigation fluid right before using, drink gallons of tea (<g

though I might have made

a mistake there), take herbal meds, etc.  Surgeries, polyp poppings, final clear CAT scans.  Negative allergy 1 and 2 tests.  Lung xrays/allergist breathing tests negative. diet/lifestyle changes. cleaning environmental disasters in the house. Nothing helps prevent the horror. I also have frequent bronchitious simultaneously/closely related to sinusitus recurrences. No matter what, the infections always come back.  It seems my immune system is weakened (just had a negative HIV test 2 years ago and troubles started before then).  A friend of a friend has trouble due to Lyme’s disease with somewhat similiar symptoms – any cold / flu destroyed them. Anyone else have a correlation between Lyme’s disease and chronic sinusitus?  Maybe the problem is the sinuses are just the weak link? I certainly live in a hotspot for Lyme’s disease.

Response:

Question:

From what I recall reading a while ago, the SCDiet has a less than 50 percent success rate among Crohns patients, and an even lower yet success rate among U.C. patients.

The people who are helped don’t have to take the drugs that have some severe side effects.  The drugs don’t cure the disease, they just control it.  I don’t see any reason to not give it a try. It doesn’t involve eating any strange foods, you just eliminate starches and complex sugars. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

While I don’t believe that the SCD will cure people, it certainly does relieve the symptoms for lot’s of people.  Just doing that has to reduce the damage being done to the gut.         Sure it does but so does exclusion diets.  Just because the diet works does not mean that the theory behind the diet is correct.

Does it matter why it works?  If it helps, it helps.  It involves eating a balanced diet so it’s perfectly safe. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

Does it matter why it works?  If it helps, it helps.  It involves eating a balanced diet so it’s perfectly safe. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

clark, i’d like to add my voice to those in support of the scdiet. i’ve been battling UC for the last 5 years, been on pred 3 times — sometimes as long as 6 months. i was getting ready to lose my colon until about 2 weeks ago. someone told me to try eliminating sugar and wheat. when i did this my flare didn’t end, but it got much better. next i decided to try eliminating all grains… and bingo. when i did some research on this diet of mine i discovered it was already fairly popular. i had heard of the scdiet about 3 years ago but decided against it at the time because i’m allergic to nuts. for the last 2 weeks i’ve been following the scdiet (without using any nuts, tho!) and i’ve never felt better since i was diagnosed with UC. sometimes the progress is slow and uneven, but it works. the bleeding stops. the urgency stops. i can leave the house again. so now i’m one of the scdiet "converts", going around extolling its virtues. i can’t claim this will work for anyone, but if i’m any example it’s at least worth a try. darrin

Response:

Also people with IBD are different with about everything especially diet. UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Clark,         Yes, I’ve heard that.  The problem I have with it is that it is anecdotal evidence and while that’s better than nothing it is not as good as the evidence we get from a well designed / analyzed scientific study.  Sadly, diet is difficult to study so we probably won’t see any harder data soon. There’s no money to be made in dietary solutions, unless a custom food product is to be marketed.  Hence there is no money to fund such research.  It’s also not possible to do double blind studies with diet. It’s pretty obvious what you are eating. There’s no money to be made in many of the things people study, yet research gets done.  For example, how much money can a cosmologist studying the material between galaxies make?  Besides, not all funding comes from industry (e.g. http://www.niddk.nih.gov/fund/program/topicslist.htm#11) You are correct about not being able to do placebo controlled, double blind studies but I don’t think that is the problem.  One of the issues with studying diet is that people can get food almost anywhere so enforcing compliance isn’t easy.  Most dietary effects take a long time which multiplies the compliance problem as well as increasing the expense. While I don’t believe that the SCD will cure people, it certainly does relieve the symptoms for lot’s of people.  Just doing that has to reduce the damage being done to the gut. Sure it does but so does exclusion diets.  Just because the diet works does not mean that the theory behind the diet is correct. — Luke The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Response:

From what I recall reading a while ago, the SCDiet has a less than 50 percent success rate among Crohns patients, and an even lower yet success rate among U.C. patients.  

Response:

        Hi Clark,         Yes, I’ve heard that.  The problem I have with it is that it is anecdotal evidence and while that’s better than nothing it is not as good as the evidence we get from a well designed / analyzed scientific study.  Sadly, diet is difficult to study so we probably won’t see any harder data soon. There’s no money to be made in dietary solutions, unless a custom food product is to be marketed.  Hence there is no money to fund such research.  It’s also not possible to do double blind studies with diet. It’s pretty obvious what you are eating.

        There’s no money to be made in many of the things people study, yet research gets done.  For example, how much money can a cosmologist studying the material between galaxies make?  Besides, not all funding comes from industry (e.g. http://www.niddk.nih.gov/fund/program/topicslist.htm#11)         You are correct about not being able to do placebo controlled, double blind studies but I don’t think that is the problem.  One of the issues with studying diet is that people can get food almost anywhere so enforcing compliance isn’t easy.  Most dietary effects take a long time which multiplies the compliance problem as well as increasing the expense. While I don’t believe that the SCD will cure people, it certainly does relieve the symptoms for lot’s of people.  Just doing that has to reduce the damage being done to the gut.

        Sure it does but so does exclusion diets.  Just because the diet works does not mean that the theory behind the diet is correct. — Luke The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Response:

Some scdiet proponents claim that it has something like a 70% remission rate among UC patients.  So many choices/decisions!         Yes, I’ve heard that.  The problem I have with it is that it is anecdotal evidence and while that’s better than nothing it is not as good as the evidence we get from a well designed / analyzed scientific study.  Sadly, diet is difficult to study so we probably won’t see any harder data soon.

There’s no money to be made in dietary solutions, unless a custom food product is to be marketed.  Hence there is no money to fund such research.  It’s also not possible to do double blind studies with diet. It’s pretty obvious what you are eating. While I don’t believe that the SCD will cure people, it certainly does relieve the symptoms for lot’s of people.  Just doing that has to reduce the damage being done to the gut. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

Hi Paul, Thanks for all of the repsonses from everyone.  I must say it’s pretty discouraging.

        Sorry about that. I guess what I’m trying to find out is are there any treatments out there that have as many "followers" as the scdiet.  Accupuncture? Herbs?  Nicotine patch? etc?  I am seeing a great Doctor, the head of the GI UNit for Mass General.  But, it seems that everything I’ve read about any accepted, clinical, western medical treatment is not all that optimistic.

        I’m mostly a mainstream (Western Medical Science) treatment person myself but some people have posted alternative treatments on this group.  You can use Google to search the archives if you’re interested.  For instance a search for "acupuncture" turned up http://tinyurl.com/7s7s.  You can used the "Advanced Search" feature to fine tune your search.         In no particular order, I’ve seen acupuncture, Chinese herbs, a "classified" method, multi enzymes, nutritional supplements are more mentioned here.  I’m not endorsing their use, you will have to make your own decision.         Personally, I prefer something with scientific evidence for it but am willing to consider something that does not have scientific evidence against it. …I thought I should add, I’ve found the diet very easy to adhere to.  The recipes are great and the almond flour makes delicious bread-like stuff.

        Good for you!  I tried a wheat free / yeast free exclusion diet and the only breads I could get could substitute for boat anchors. Some scdiet proponents claim that it has something like a 70% remission rate among UC patients.  So many choices/decisions!

        Yes, I’ve heard that.  The problem I have with it is that it is anecdotal evidence and while that’s better than nothing it is not as good as the evidence we get from a well designed / analyzed scientific study.  Sadly, diet is difficult to study so we probably won’t see any harder data soon.         (I’ve worked in IT and I’ve seen some of the strange things people can believe, so the fact that a lot of people believe in "Something" does not impress me.) — Luke The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Pual, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis.    I’m sorry you had to come here but welcome on board! I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback:    I’ve no personal experience with using the SCD but I did some research on it when I found diet has an impact on my Crohn’s disease symptoms.    I don’t think much of the theory the diet is based on, it seems to use outdated research and may have some inconsistencies when including/excluding foods.  But the diet is a variation of an exclusion (or elimination) diet and this kind of diet is great for identifying problem foods.    Exclusion diets are difficult to maintain and typically require a lot of self disciple; with these diets there is no such thing as a little cheating.  If an exclusion diet works and you eliminate problem foods you will see some improvement. * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well?    Yes. *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend?    AFAIK, the SCD is not a homeopathic treatment.  Did you have some other form of treatment in mind? Thanks for any answers.    HTH,

Thanks for all of the repsonses from everyone.  I must say it’s pretty discouraging. *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend?    AFAIK, the SCD is not a homeopathic treatment.  Did you have some other form of treatment in mind?

I guess what I’m trying to find out is are there any treatments out there that have as many "followers" as the scdiet.  Accupuncture? Herbs?  Nicotine patch? etc?  I am seeing a great Doctor, the head of the GI UNit for Mass General.  But, it seems that everything I’ve read about any accepted, clinical, western medical treatment is not all that optimistic. …I thought I should add, I’ve found the diet very easy to adhere to.  The recipes are great and the almond flour makes delicious bread-like stuff. Some scdiet proponents claim that it has something like a 70% remission rate among UC patients.  So many choices/decisions! Thanks, Paul

Response:

actually the autoimmunity is the basic root cause of the inflammation. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis. I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback: * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well? *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend? Thanks for any answers. Paul I have Crohn’s and it definitely helps me.  When I cheat the D comes back within days.  It doesn’t help everyone, though, and it seems to help Crohn’s sufferers more than other bowel diseases.  It probably helps because it eliminates the foods that don’t get digested fully and thus causes irritation.  The auto-immune system then responds to the irritation and goes overboard, at least that’s my theory. I would bet that if most middle aged men cut down on the complex carbs the pull my finger joke would be a thing of the past. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

Diet MIGHT play a role if you believe the ‘leaky gut’ theory. It basically states that due to some inflammation in the gut (a trigger maybe), the cellular junctions loosen up allowing gut contents to leak into deeper layers of the gut and body cavity  thus triggering an immune response. At least that’s my take on it. If you believe that then maybe diet play some role. Trigger, something that exacerbates an already  pathologic situation? Maybe this is how gut flora start an immune response if they ‘leak’ out of the gut ? Interesting idea!

It’s something I think about pretty seriously, but I’ve got IBS and asthma which both have clearly linked food triggers (and the IBS reacts favorably to Benadryl or hydroxyzine/Atarax).  My son has Crohn’s, asthma and Asperger syndrome.  He had some….um…..*interesting* rashes on Flagyl (*Interesting* rashes are a household specialty even without medications.  We don’t panic, we observe and admire the quality of the outbreak.  Pretty jaded here.).  He also has food-triggered asthma (wheat, pretty dramatic reaction involving ear pain and irritable behavior as well as lots of coughing and hacking–cough variant asthma).  Doesn’t show up on a classic allergy skin test, but definitely shows up when challenged on a rotation diet. Because we’re both atopic triad sorts (eczema, hay fever, asthma), we’ve got meds to deal with lungs and noses.  I’ve noticed that as I get the reactions from sinus and lungs under control, I get ear and gut reactions instead.  Same seems to be true for the son.  It’s a tolerance sort of reaction, as I can handle small amounts of the big offenders for asthma (wheat, dairy, egg and shrimp).  Cutting out potatoes for my IBS, however, led to a clearup of my eczema which has never–since I was an infant–subsided otherwise except one prednisone and Atarax burst treatment last spring.  However, I can eat potatoes occasionally without having asthma attacks.  They just affect skin and gut reactions. Makes me think Really Hard about the leaky gut theory making sense. However, the immune system stuff is *so* bloody idiosyncratic, y’know? Oh yeah, I’m a parent of a recently diagnosed kid with CD, started out with Septra and Flagyl, went to sulfasalazine and Flagyl, then sulfasalazine alone, is now on 6-MP headed for Remicade.  It decided to appear pretty dramatically, with sudden weight loss coupled with monster fistulas.  The asthma was flaring badly just before the CD revealed itself, and the kid had been struggling with sinus infections for the four months before the CD exploded on the scene two and a half months ago. I have IBS, one of my nephews has CD, there’s a significant family history of gut disease including colon cancer, polyps, tuberculosis of the intestines, and other unspecified gut illnesses coupled with allergies, asthma and possible undiagnosed Asperger’s in the family history (looking back there’s a lot of the same sort of behaviors which recur pretty frequently, sometimes coupled with gut stuff). Definitely genetics as well as immune system weirdnesses going on. Which makes me think very hard about the leaky gut theory. jrw

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis. I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback: * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well? *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend? Thanks for any answers. Paul

I have Crohn’s and it definitely helps me.  When I cheat the D comes back within days.  It doesn’t help everyone, though, and it seems to help Crohn’s sufferers more than other bowel diseases.  It probably helps because it eliminates the foods that don’t get digested fully and thus causes irritation.  The auto-immune system then responds to the irritation and goes overboard, at least that’s my theory. I would bet that if most middle aged men cut down on the complex carbs the pull my finger joke would be a thing of the past. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

Diet MIGHT play a role if you believe the ‘leaky gut’ theory. It basically states that due to some inflammation in the gut (a trigger maybe), the cellular junctions loosen up allowing gut contents to leak into deeper layers of the gut and body cavity  thus triggering an immune response. At least that’s my take on it. If you believe that then maybe diet play some role. Trigger, something that exacerbates an already  pathologic situation? Maybe this is how gut flora start an immune response if they ‘leak’ out of the gut ? Interesting idea! Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i assume sc works for some, personally, i don’t believe diet has "that" much to do  with disease such as cd….an autoimmune diesease.  it might make you "feel" better, but does not treat, reduce inflammation or otherwise cure or improve the disease.  autoimmunity is at the root of the issue…..again, what i have studied and personally believe. jeffy Hi Folks, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis. I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback: * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well? *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend? Thanks for any answers. Paul

Response:

i assume sc works for some, personally, i don’t believe diet has "that" much to do  with disease such as cd….an autoimmune diesease.  it might make you "feel" better, but does not treat, reduce inflammation or otherwise cure or improve the disease.  autoimmunity is at the root of the issue…..again, what i have studied and personally believe. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis. I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback: * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well? *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend? Thanks for any answers. Paul

Response:

Hi Pual, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis.

        I’m sorry you had to come here but welcome on board! I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback:

        I’ve no personal experience with using the SCD but I did some research on it when I found diet has an impact on my Crohn’s disease symptoms.         I don’t think much of the theory the diet is based on, it seems to use outdated research and may have some inconsistencies when including/excluding foods.  But the diet is a variation of an exclusion (or elimination) diet and this kind of diet is great for identifying problem foods.         Exclusion diets are difficult to maintain and typically require a lot of self disciple; with these diets there is no such thing as a little cheating.  If an exclusion diet works and you eliminate problem foods you will see some improvement. * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well?

        Yes. *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend?

        AFAIK, the SCD is not a homeopathic treatment.  Did you have some other form of treatment in mind? Thanks for any answers.

        HTH, — Luke The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Response:

Hi Folks, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis. I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback: * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well? *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend? Thanks for any answers. Paul

Response:

I tried the diet in 1996 during a severe flare-up, and followed it religiously (according to Mrs. Gottschall’s advice) for 4 weeks.  It did not work for me. I  wound up using Chinese herbs and a modified diet to get to remission. Prednisone, Asacol, and hydrocortozone enemas did not work for me.  At one point I was doing 60mg pred, and  2 hydrocortozone enemas daily, as well as Asacol. After starting the Chinese herbs and modified diet, I was able to wean off of the drugs completely  within 4 months.  Thank God, I have never had to use the dread Pred or the other drugs  again.     Since 1996, I have had two mild flair-ups, both brought on by failure to adhere to my prescribed diet, as well as over-excertion. I treated  both flare-ups  with Chinese herbs, and diet. These days,  I have expanded my diet substantially, and am tolerating a lot of foods that I could not  tolerate in the past. Just thought I’d mention, I am a U.C. sufferer.  The SCD success rate tends to be higher for Crohns patients.     Good luck, Tom    

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, THis is my first post.  I was diagnosed with UC last 8/02.  I’ve done suppositories and Hydrocortisone Enemas (twice 14 days each).  I’ve been on a steady decline since diagnosis. I started the scdiet about 2 weeks ago.  At this point I may be slightly better, but I’m not sure. I’m looking for feedback: * The book says try it for one month.  How long have people tried it before seeign substantial results? *  The community supporting the scdiet is large.  Is there a large community out there that are non-believers as well? *  What other homeopathic treatments do people recommend? Thanks for any answers. Paul

This has been covered many times here before and you might find it helpful to go back and look at the google archives. I can tell you that I looked closely at the diet a while back.  Most of theory used is based on references and research done almost 100 years go, far too long ago to be considered valid anymore.  The diet is also very exclusive in nature, and involves almost religious like adherence, which may explain why the group of followers are so vocal since they’ve put so much of their time and effort into the diet. The standard response by most physicians is that diet doesn’t affect the natural progression of the disease.  I believe however that a person can probably reduce their symptoms by altering their diet but this takes time and a lot of trial and error. For example many people with IBD experience problems with milk products. This method combined with using conventional medicines may help your disease under control or at least at a manageable level. Unfortunately it seems that once a person has progressed into a bad flare, diet alone is not much help. The one thing that seems to be constant is that not everyone reacts the same to the same foods. I think this is why posting a diet here or publishing a diet is somewhat useless.  Only you know what you can and cannot tolerate.  The best advice I could give would be to keep a written journal of what foods give you trouble and which ones you tolerate.

Response:

Question:

The Advair inhaler may be appropriate, since albuterol doesn’t fully control her symptoms. However steroids like Advair should be used in the lowest dose to control the problem. Advair is available in 3 strengths. She would probably be on the lowest strength version, 100 mcg fluticasone/50 mcg salmeterol per puff. Usually started at 2 pf twice/day, but it can be cut back.

Not to be too anal, but Advair is one puff twice a day.  If you took two puffs twice a day, you’d be getting double the Serevent, which seems to be a bad idea.  Sounds like another case for using two inhalers, so as to be able to independently control the dosages.  

Response:

     Even though there was an improvement from pre to post, does having a      normal spiro to begin with merit preventative treatment?  If she is      breathing like she should be why treatment?

Astma is an intermittent condition. Just because she is normal in the pulmonary function lab does not mean she is not having bronchospasm at other times. In this case it sounds like they suspect she has spasms in response to exersize, which is what exersize induced asthma is. Does she have asthma or      was she just pushing herself to  much?

Can’t tell from this. It would have been nice if these tests confirmed the asthma but they did not. They also did not rule it out. You basically are back to judging symptoms and response to medication at this point. It may be possible to do a methacholine challenge or , better yet, do spirometry after exersize. Also, using a peak flow meter and having her do it when she feels short while exersizing may help to figure it out. She came home with a sample of      Advair and more albuterol.  The reasoning from the doctor was with      such an improvement (pre to post) the Advair will help with the      exercise.  She also has a 2 week follow up to discuss the allergies.

Both of those spirograms are normal. They do not suggets the need for treatment (there wasn’t a 20% difference) although they do not argue to withhold it either in the face of compatible symptoms. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

http://www.NationalJewish.org/medfacts/asthma_action_plan.html  Action Plan to Manage Asthma "94, NJC http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/AsthmaIM/comp1/AssessmentB.html  Periodic Assessment and Monitoring ——- Ellis

Thank you.  As usual your wealth of information was of great assistance. W.

Response:

Can’t tell from this. It would have been nice if these tests confirmed the asthma but they did not. They also did not rule it out. You basically are back to judging symptoms and response to medication at this point. It may be possible to do a methacholine challenge or , better yet, do spirometry after exersize. Also, using a peak flow meter and having her do it when she feels short while exersizing may help to figure it out.

CBI, Thank you for you reply.  I do believe I lost all my asthma sense dealing with my daughter and asthma.  Thank you for gently pointing that out.  When she first got the albuterol from the pediatrician, I did do the peak flow routine pre and post inhalations and exercise. There was no significant change at any point. We will continue to monitor her symptoms and have her carry the rescue inhaler. I think I was surprised she was given medication (Advair) so swiftly from the doctor.  Having gotten AVN in both hips and shoulders from Prednisone, any form of steroids make me worrisome, especially for my children, even though I know how beneficial it can be. Thanks again for the reply.  It was greatly appreciated. W.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a quick question for the group.  My 13 year old athletic daughter started to experience cough variant asthma like symptoms during track last spring.  This summer at her school physical, her pediatrician gave us a script for albuterol and said give it a try before exercising and see what happens. She was still having some problems and since I have such horrible asthma and everyone in her father’s family has asthma, we went to the allergy and asthma doctor.  He did skin testing and a pre and post spiro.  Skin testing no surprise, seasonal allergies, dust, the usual. The question results from the spiro results.  I myself have never had      a normal one so here is the question.      Her pre values were all within normal range.      FVC: 91.5%      FEV 0.5: 95.2%      FEV 1.0: 95.6%      FEV/FVC ratios: both 104%      PEF: 85%      FEF 25-75: 96.4%      FEF 75: 94.9%      Post:      FVC 98.8%      All other values from 109 to 125% Even though there was an improvement from pre to post, does having a normal spiro to begin with merit preventative treatment?  If she is breathing like she should be why treatment?  Does she have asthma or was she just pushing herself to  much?  She came home with a sample of Advair and more albuterol.  The reasoning from the doctor was with such an improvement (pre to post) the Advair will help with the exercise.  She also has a 2 week follow up to discuss the allergies. The doctor is a specialist. I was refereed to him by by own pulmonologist.  He works out of one of the best hospitals in the Detroit area.  No snake oil etc.      Thanks in advance.      Wheazer

The Advair inhaler may be appropriate, since albuterol doesn’t fully control her symptoms. However steroids like Advair should be used in the lowest dose to control the problem. Advair is available in 3 strengths. She would probably be on the lowest strength version, 100 mcg fluticasone/50 mcg salmeterol per puff. Usually started at 2 pf twice/day, but it can be cut back. Use of a peak flow meter at home, along with an Action Plan, can minize the drug dose and side effects. http://www.NationalJewish.org/medfacts/asthma_action_plan.html  Action Plan to Manage Asthma "94, NJC http://www.vh.org/Providers/ClinGuide/AsthmaIM/comp1/AssessmentB.html  Periodic Assessment and Monitoring ——- Ellis

Response:

Hi All,      I have a quick question for the group.  My 13 year old athletic      daughter started to experience cough variant asthma like symptoms      during track last spring.  This summer at her school physical, her      pediatrician gave us a script for albuterol and said give it a try      before exercising and see what happens.      She was still having some problems and since I have such horrible      asthma and everyone in her father’s family has asthma, we went to the      allergy and asthma doctor.  He did skin testing and a pre and post      spiro.  Skin testing no surprise, seasonal allergies, dust, the usual.       The question results from the spiro results.  I myself have never had      a normal one so here is the question.      Her pre values were all within normal range.        FVC: 91.5%      FEV 0.5: 95.2%      FEV 1.0: 95.6%      FEV/FVC ratios: both 104%      PEF: 85%      FEF 25-75: 96.4%      FEF 75: 94.9%      Post:      FVC 98.8%      All other values from 109 to 125%      Even though there was an improvement from pre to post, does having a      normal spiro to begin with merit preventative treatment?  If she is      breathing like she should be why treatment?  Does she have asthma or      was she just pushing herself to  much?  She came home with a sample of      Advair and more albuterol.  The reasoning from the doctor was with      such an improvement (pre to post) the Advair will help with the      exercise.  She also has a 2 week follow up to discuss the allergies.      The doctor is a specialist. I was refereed to him by by own      pulmonologist.  He works out of one of the best hospitals in the      Detroit area.  No snake oil etc.      Thanks in advance.        Wheazer

Response:

Question:

My youngest Daughter, Kira, (now 2) was diagnosed with Asthma when she was 10 months old, after suffered with recurring bronchiolitis for 6 months. At the same time as diagnosing her with Asthma, the paediatrican also noted that she looked anemic (?sp) and suggested we give her iron supplements. (he didn’t do any tests, just thought she looked as though she was low on iron) Kira hasn’t had any more asthma symptoms, although she has been on flixotide (down to 1 puff a day), and I (in consultation with the dr) have just taken her off the flixotide, with no ill effects. Having done some reading recently, it seems that a symptom on Anemia can be Asthma? Is it possible that the lack of iron could have caused her asthma?  Would asthma caused by anemia go away if the anemia goes away? Any advice appreciated! TIA Katie Mummy to Rhian (6.5) and Kira (2)

Response:

Let’s see..     I have asthma – no anemia My sister has anemia – no asthma Go figure

Response:

Anything that might cause ill health will greatly increase the risks of asthma. But I’ve never heard of a connection with anemia. At least now you know she has a risk for asthma and she should be checked regularly by a physician. You will have to keep an eye on her also. Best wishes Lane

Response:

My youngest Daughter, Kira, (now 2) was diagnosed with Asthma when she was 10 months old, after suffered with recurring bronchiolitis for 6 months. At the same time as diagnosing her with Asthma, the paediatrican also noted that she looked anemic (?sp) and suggested we give her iron supplements. (he didn’t do any tests, just thought she looked as though she was low on iron)

Highly questionable. In the US it is cutomary to check a blood count at about 9-12 mos of age. If he thought she looked anemic there were two good reasons to check it. Kira hasn’t had any more asthma symptoms, although she has been on flixotide (down to 1 puff a day), and I (in consultation with the dr) have just taken her off the flixotide, with no ill effects. Having done some reading recently, it seems that a symptom on Anemia can be Asthma?

No. There is no relation. Is it possible that the lack of iron could have caused her asthma?

No. Would asthma caused by anemia go away if the anemia goes away?

No. Any advice appreciated!

Find a new source of information and possibly a new pediatrician. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

Anything that might cause ill health will greatly increase the risks of asthma.

Not true. Asthma is the result of aberant regulation of the immune system which is not to say it is a weak immune system or that things that might normally be expected to weaken the immune system will predispose to asthma. But I’ve never heard of a connection with anemia.

Neither have I. At least now you know she has a risk for asthma and she should be checked regularly by a physician. You will have to keep an eye on her also.

No harm in keeping an eye. If the risk factor you are referring to is her reactive airways disease (the correct diagnosis – not asthma) then I agree. Depending on family history she has about a 50% chance of later developing asthma. If you are referring to the anemia then you are mistaken. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

Anything that might cause ill health will greatly increase the risks of asthma. Not true. Asthma is the result of aberant regulation of the immune system which is not to say it is a weak immune system or that things that might normally be expected to weaken the immune system will predispose to asthma.

By definition, is not a weak or compromised immune system one which has difficulty adapting to its environment?  Difficult adaptation and aberrant regulation sound alot alike to me.  What you are saying is that one’s immune system may be weak in one area, but not in others. A generally weak immune system would struggle to handle all afronts to it, and not just one or two, as is the case with asthma and allergies, for instance.   Are not all your efforts to treat asthma geared toward physiologically mediating or ’substituting’ functions which the immune system of that individual is unable to handle, thereby defining it as ‘weak’ in that regard? Bob

Response:

Anything that might cause ill health will greatly increase the risks of asthma. Not true. Asthma is the result of aberant regulation of the immune system which is not to say it is a weak immune system or that things that might normally be expected to weaken the immune system will predispose to asthma. By definition, is not a weak or compromised immune system one which has difficulty adapting to its environment?

No. The immune system fights many invaders and serves many functions. Reacting in a away that is not percieved as beneficial to us in our environment to a few proteins out of the millions that are encountered does not mean it is weak. It is possible that the "allergic" response may have had some evolutionary advantages in some situations.  What you are saying would be akin to saying that a student with a straight A average who gives arguably correct answers on an exam that the teacher happens to disagree with is stupid. I offer as further proof the fact that some of the most potent treatments for allergies and asthma are imunosuppressives. Why would the treatment for a weak immune system be a drug that weakens it further? As a third proof I offer the fact that allergies are not associated with a shorter life span. Wouldn’t you expect a weak immune system to be? I challenge you to find another immunodeficiency disorder that isn’t. Difficult adaptation and aberrant regulation sound alot alike to me.  What you are saying is that one’s immune system may be weak in one area, but not in others.

No, I am saying that the response is not what twenty-first century civilised people prefer. A generally weak immune system would struggle to handle all afronts to it, and not just one or two, as is the case with asthma and allergies, for instance.

You are arguing my point. Are not all your efforts to treat asthma geared toward physiologically mediating or ’substituting’ functions which the immune system of that individual is unable to handle, thereby defining it as ‘weak’ in that regard?

No. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

As a third proof I offer the fact that allergies are not associated with a shorter life span. Wouldn’t you expect a weak immune system to be? I challenge you to find another immunodeficiency disorder that isn’t.

OK.  Immunodeficient = weak.  But the opposite of that, a hyperactive immune system, is also weak.  The organism is weaker with a hyperactive immune system than it would be with a self-modulating one. I argue that both are weak in their abilities to adapt.  One doesn’t cut it, the other overdoes it. As for your challenge to life span comparisons of various disorders, I would agree with you.  Semantics are important, and it’s helpful to better define terms.  Thank you. Bob

Response:

By definition, is not a weak or compromised immune system one which has difficulty adapting to its environment?  Difficult adaptation and aberrant regulation sound alot alike to me.  What you are saying is that one’s immune system may be weak in one area, but not in others. A generally weak immune system would struggle to handle all afronts to it, and not just one or two, as is the case with asthma and allergies, for instance.  

In asthma the immune system is not ‘weak.’  (As if that term means anything at all.) The problem is that the immune system mistakenly identifies otherwise innocuous substances like pollen as ‘invaders.’ — "What Sept. 11 did was remind us that there are times when we must fight for our country, that, indeed, there are things – our liberty, our democracy, our belief in human rights and human dignity – worth fighting for." Newsday.com editorial – 27 May 2002

Response:

As a third proof I offer the fact that allergies are not associated with a shorter life span. Wouldn’t you expect a weak immune system to be? I challenge you to find another immunodeficiency disorder that isn’t. OK.  Immunodeficient = weak.  But the opposite of that, a hyperactive immune system, is also weak.  The organism is weaker with a hyperactive immune system than it would be with a self-modulating one. I argue that both are weak in their abilities to adapt.  One doesn’t cut it, the other overdoes it.

Asthma and allergies are neither. You miss the essential point that in atopy the immune system reacts perfectly normally 99.99% of the time or more. In the other 0.01% or less of the time it reacts in a way that is annoying to us and arguably innappropriate but cannot be characterised as hyperactive, weak, deficient, or most of the other adjectives you tey to ascribe. — CBI, MD

Response:

By definition, is not a weak or compromised immune system one which has difficulty adapting to its environment?  Difficult adaptation and aberrant regulation sound alot alike to me.  What you are saying is that one’s immune system may be weak in one area, but not in others. A generally weak immune system would struggle to handle all afronts to it, and not just one or two, as is the case with asthma and allergies, for instance.   In asthma the immune system is not ‘weak.’  (As if that term means anything at all.)

 Weak seems to be an inappropriate term then. The fact remains, however, that those with asthma become weak…and sometimes disabled, and occasionally die from nocturnal attacks.  That’s my point. Whether the immune system is weak or whether it renders us weak is debatable. Wasn’t it you Colin who offered as a reason why there were more asthmatics diagnosed these days was that they survive longer now and hence can reproduce, thereby increasing their presence in the genetic pool? Bob

Response:

OK.  Immunodeficient = weak.  But the opposite of that, a hyperactive immune system, is also weak.  The organism is weaker with a hyperactive immune system than it would be with a self-modulating one. I argue that both are weak in their abilities to adapt.  One doesn’t cut it, the other overdoes it. Asthma and allergies are neither. You miss the essential point that in atopy the immune system reacts perfectly normally 99.99% of the time or more. In the other 0.01% or less of the time it reacts in a way that is annoying to us and arguably innappropriate but cannot be characterised as hyperactive, weak, deficient, or most of the other adjectives you tey to ascribe.

Maybe the immune system reacts normally to 99.99% of the millions of proteins our bodies are exposed to, but not in terms of time suffering.  I’m assuming this is your point. Arguably innapropriate?  Allergies and asthma are arguably innapropriate?  Who on earth would say they weren’t? What term(s) would you use to describe the immune system of a person who suffers from allergies and/or asthma, other than arguably innapropriate? Bob

Response:

Couldn’t anemia lead to a low diffusion capacity which would look like asthma (SOB)?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My youngest Daughter, Kira, (now 2) was diagnosed with Asthma when she was 10 months old, after suffered with recurring bronchiolitis for 6 months. At the same time as diagnosing her with Asthma, the paediatrican also noted that she looked anemic (?sp) and suggested we give her iron supplements. (he didn’t do any tests, just thought she looked as though she was low on iron) Kira hasn’t had any more asthma symptoms, although she has been on flixotide (down to 1 puff a day), and I (in consultation with the dr) have just taken her off the flixotide, with no ill effects. Having done some reading recently, it seems that a symptom on Anemia can be Asthma? Is it possible that the lack of iron could have caused her asthma?  Would asthma caused by anemia go away if the anemia goes away? Any advice appreciated! TIA Katie Mummy to Rhian (6.5) and Kira (2)

Response:

Arguably innapropriate?  Allergies and asthma are arguably innapropriate?  Who on earth would say they weren’t?

People exposed to large loads of parasites – which until recently (on evolutionary scales) was a much bigger scourge. What term(s) would you use to describe the immune system of a person who suffers from allergies and/or asthma, other than arguably innapropriate?

Potentially superior? — CBI, MD

Response:

Couldn’t anemia lead to a low diffusion capacity which would look like asthma (SOB)?

No. The shortness of breath would be constant and not intermittent, not accompanied by chest tightness or wheezing (unless heart disease was also present), and not lessened by asthma meds. BTW – the diffusion capacity would be unaffected. It would be the oxygen carrying capacity that would be reduced. — CBI, MD

Response:

Weak seems to be an inappropriate term then. The fact remains, however, that those with asthma become weak…and sometimes disabled, and occasionally die from nocturnal attacks.  That’s my point.

"People with asthma become weak???"  I can name several Olympic gold medal winning asthmatics who would disagree with that statement. Whether the immune system is weak or whether it renders us weak is debatable. Wasn’t it you Colin who offered as a reason why there were more asthmatics diagnosed these days was that they survive longer now and hence can reproduce, thereby increasing their presence in the genetic pool?

As a possible reason.  I also stated that atopy may have ben beneficial int he past. — "What Sept. 11 did was remind us that there are times when we must fight for our country, that, indeed, there are things – our liberty, our democracy, our belief in human rights and human dignity – worth fighting for." Newsday.com editorial – 27 May 2002

Response:

I know when I had the diffusion capacity test, they also took a blood sample. They reported that my low diffusion capacity wasn’t due to anemia, but to a lung condition. Did I jump to the wrong conclusion?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Couldn’t anemia lead to a low diffusion capacity which would look like asthma (SOB)? No. The shortness of breath would be constant and not intermittent, not accompanied by chest tightness or wheezing (unless heart disease was also present), and not lessened by asthma meds. BTW – the diffusion capacity would be unaffected. It would be the oxygen carrying capacity that would be reduced. — CBI, MD

Response:

I know when I had the diffusion capacity test, they also took a blood sample. They reported that my low diffusion capacity wasn’t due to anemia, but to a lung condition. Did I jump to the wrong conclusion?

The diffusion capacity, which is usually measured by having you breath carbon monoxide and then seeing how much ends up in the blood, measures how well gas gets from the alveoli, across the membranes of the lung, and into the blood. Anemia, amongst other things, can affect this test but it can be adjusted for and would not alter the true diffusion capacity. Asthma, if well controlled, should also have a normal diffusion capacity but it may be low if poorly controlled or if it has lead to permanent lung damage (emphysematous changes). It should be possible to distinguish a falsely low diffusion capacity from anemia from a true low capacity from lung diseases, usually other than asthma. — CBI, MD

Response:

How much do you know about Chronic Eosinophilic bronchitis or cough variant asthma? From what I read, a low diffusion capacity is usually the only test that is off the norms. Or you could call it Simple Chronic Bronchitis. It really depends on who your doctor is I gather.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know when I had the diffusion capacity test, they also took a blood sample. They reported that my low diffusion capacity wasn’t due to anemia, but to a lung condition. Did I jump to the wrong conclusion? The diffusion capacity, which is usually measured by having you breath carbon monoxide and then seeing how much ends up in the blood, measures how well gas gets from the alveoli, across the membranes of the lung, and into the blood. Anemia, amongst other things, can affect this test but it can be adjusted for and would not alter the true diffusion capacity. Asthma, if well controlled, should also have a normal diffusion capacity but it may be low if poorly controlled or if it has lead to permanent lung damage (emphysematous changes). It should be possible to distinguish a falsely low diffusion capacity from anemia from a true low capacity from lung diseases, usually other than asthma. — CBI, MD

Response:

How much do you know about Chronic Eosinophilic bronchitis or cough variant asthma? From what I read, a low diffusion capacity is usually the only test that is off the norms. Or you could call it Simple Chronic Bronchitis. It really depends on who your doctor is I gather.

I’m hardly an expert on the two, especially the former. My understanding is that simple chronic bronchitis is a chronic irritation/infection of the bronchi, usually seen in long term smokers and is distinct from eosinophilic bronchitis which implies an allergic component. Cough variant asthma is something else again. — CBI, MD

Response:

Eosinophilic bronchitis was diagnosed when the patient had normal spirometric values, normal peak expiratory flow variability, no airway hyper-responsiveness, yet sputum eosinophilia. But Simple Chronic Bronchitis is just a definition of chronic productive cough for 3 months of the year for 2 years or more without obstruction – it is usually caused by cigarette smoking and deteriorates over time into COPD (with obstruction). But it may also be caused by many other disorders, like poorly controlled asthma, lung Eosinophil levels have been found to be the same in asthma and Eosinophilic bronchitis. So the thought is to redefine asthma to include those inflammatory disorders that are characterized by  mostly eosinophil infiltrates and those with high neutrophil counts would be considered to have Chronic Bronchitis. Well, it is a changing field. I have no idea where cough variant fits in to this unless they are the ones with the non productive cough but otherwise test out like eosinophilic bronchitis. Do you know?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How much do you know about Chronic Eosinophilic bronchitis or cough variant asthma? From what I read, a low diffusion capacity is usually the only test that is off the norms. Or you could call it Simple Chronic Bronchitis. It really depends on who your doctor is I gather. I’m hardly an expert on the two, especially the former. My understanding is that simple chronic bronchitis is a chronic irritation/infection of the bronchi, usually seen in long term smokers and is distinct from eosinophilic bronchitis which implies an allergic component. Cough variant asthma is something else again. — CBI, MD

Response:

Eosinophilic bronchitis was diagnosed when the patient had normal spirometric values, normal peak expiratory flow variability, no airway hyper-responsiveness, yet sputum eosinophilia.

This would be my understanding (what is above and below) But Simple Chronic Bronchitis is just a definition of chronic productive cough for 3 months of the year for 2 years or more without obstruction – it is usually caused by cigarette smoking and deteriorates over time into COPD (with obstruction). But it may also be caused by many other disorders, like poorly controlled asthma, lung

Usually on bronchoscopy the cells are granulocytes chromically and sometimes eosinophils during an exacerbation. Eosinophil levels have been found to be the same in asthma and Eosinophilic bronchitis. So the thought is to redefine asthma to include those inflammatory disorders that are characterized by  mostly eosinophil infiltrates and those with high neutrophil counts would be considered to have Chronic Bronchitis.

basicallym this makes sense but it will never be that clear. As I said above – COPD.chronic bronchitis will be lostly neutrophils, which are poorly responsive to steroids and why inhaled steroids don’t alter the long term course of them but they switch to eosinophils during exacerbations which is why steroids do help in this setting and to prevent exacerbations. Well, it is a changing field. I have no idea where cough variant fits in to this unless they are the ones with the non productive cough but otherwise test out like eosinophilic bronchitis. Do you know?

My understanding is that cough variant asthma is one manifestation of asthma and is treated similarly. — CBI, MD

Response:

cough variant asthma

I have just completed reading the John Hopkins health letter and and it metioned cardiac asthma/ Would you please give an explanation of this as I have not remembered reading this on the group.

Response:

cough variant asthma I have just completed reading the John Hopkins health letter and and it metioned cardiac asthma/ Would you please give an explanation of this as I have not remembered reading this on the group.

This unfortunately named entity refers to the asthma-like sounds that you hear, the wheezes you hear, in the chest of some people with congestive heart failure and pulmonary edema.     Larry

Response:

Question:

In Canada, I understand, if you are diagnosed with sleep apnea, your license depends on your complying with the treatment. In the USofA, it would depend on the state. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CFster wrote:

"Kaysue555" <kaysue…@aol.comnojunk wrote in message news:20020605201125.09766.00000108@mb-fq.aol.com… Don’t get carried away answering questions about driving.  Admitting that you have problems with sleepiness while driving could cost you your licence. You mean, If I tell my doctor I can get sleepy while driving somehow they can take my license? They can do that??? CF

Response:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:16:39 GMT, in message <3D0C9062.8CF53…@earthlink.net

 Otter Perry <otter…@earthlink.net

wrote: In Canada, I understand, if you are diagnosed with sleep apnea, your license depends on your complying with the treatment.

My doctor told me not to drive. She told me that the law required that I not drive until I was successfully treated. I didn’t drive. To the best of my knowledge there was no official paperwork. I live in Ontario. Ryk

Response:

I  am from Ontario as well. No one has told me anything about my drivers license. Was this your family doctor or your specialist? "Ryk" <r…@wellingtonhouse.org

wrote in message

news:28mfhu4qm2t9bqcvmrurn39jp5ervil4nr@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:16:39 GMT, in message <3D0C9062.8CF53…@earthlink.net  Otter Perry <otter…@earthlink.net wrote: In Canada, I understand, if you are diagnosed with sleep apnea, your license depends on your complying with the treatment. My doctor told me not to drive. She told me that the law required that I not drive until I was successfully treated. I didn’t drive. To the best of my knowledge there was no official paperwork. I live in Ontario. Ryk

Response:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 23:23:06 -0400, in message <1gRR8.61020$op.5880…@read2.cgocable.net

 "Cheryl" <mage…@truemagenta.com

wrote: I  am from Ontario as well. No one has told me anything about my drivers license. Was this your family doctor or your specialist?

GP Ryk

Response:

You may want to confirm with your GP if she reported you to the MOT because she believes your OSA is severe enough to warrant restricting your licence. If she does believe that, whether she reported you or not, it is a good indication not to drive.

Response:

Hi,    I have been reading a lot of posts in this forum and I must say that I have certainly gotten more information here in a shorter period of time than I could have gotten from any outside source, so I am quite thankful for the existence of this group.    I just wanted to know, what questions should be asked, and/or what points should be established before making an appointment with a sleep center. Let me give a profile of this person -22 yrs, female, not a smoker, drinker, not overweight -Feels poorly rested in the morning -Can fall asleep easily during the daytime, sometimes has to fight to stay awake and if she decides to take an afternoon nap, she doesn’t feel refreshed afterwards; if the nap was more than 30 minutes, feels groggy. This definately affects activities because even if she is not sleepy, she always has less energy and if she gives into her sleepiness, time is wasted by napping only to wake up unrefreshed and groggy. This is a no-win situation. -Has caught her self not breathing in that she wakes up in the middle of sleep (the beginning part of the night) to catch her breath by coughing. -Feels sad and anxious a lot of the time for stupid things The only things I know that should be asked are if they give testing for Thyroid (it runs in her family), and if they also detect UARS, and of course some insurance policy issues. If anyone can be of assistance, it will be most helpful, Chuckie

Response:

Chuckie Superstar <chuckiesupers…@yahoo.com

wrote: The only things I know that should be asked are if they give testing for Thyroid (it runs in her family), and if they also detect UARS, and of course some insurance policy issues.

If thyroid comes back negative, or even if it does come back positive, see about a referal to a sleep specialist. Symptoms also sound like sleep apnea. Apena can also affect other conditions such as thyroid and high blood pressure. Ross Bernheim

Response:

chuckiesupers…@yahoo.com (Chuckie Superstar) wrote:

  I just wanted to know, what questions should be asked, and/or what points should be established before making an appointment with a sleep center. Let me give a profile of this person

You’ve done your homework, and it sure sounds like OSA. The only additional question that comes to mind is "How soon can I get tested?" Please keep us informed…. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

-22 yrs, female, not a smoker, drinker, not overweight -Feels poorly rested in the morning -Can fall asleep easily during the daytime, sometimes has to fight to stay awake and if she decides to take an afternoon nap, she doesn’t feel refreshed afterwards; if the nap was more than 30 minutes, feels groggy. This definately affects activities because even if she is not sleepy, she always has less energy and if she gives into her sleepiness, time is wasted by napping only to wake up unrefreshed and groggy. This is a no-win situation. -Has caught her self not breathing in that she wakes up in the middle of sleep (the beginning part of the night) to catch her breath by coughing. -Feels sad and anxious a lot of the time for stupid things The only things I know that should be asked are if they give testing for Thyroid (it runs in her family), and if they also detect UARS, and of course some insurance policy issues. If anyone can be of assistance, it will be most helpful, Chuckie

Response:

Don’t get carried away answering questions about driving.  Admitting that you have problems with sleepiness while driving could cost you your licence.

Response:

I appreciate all your responses. I never realized that apnea can actually aggravate thyroid; I was always under the impression that it’s only the other way around, that an oversized thyroid can obstruct your airways, hense cause the apnea. And not answering questions about driving is a very good point, because in some states, they can take away your licence, thanks for that reminder. As for getting tested and treated, we found a AASM board-certified sleep specialist in our area, and we’re going to call for an appointment. Of course, I’ll keep you posted. Chuckie

Response:

Chuckie Superstar wrote:

I appreciate all your responses. I never realized that apnea can actually aggravate thyroid; I was always under the impression that it’s only the other way around,

more likely (and it’s hypothyroidism that is usually associated with apnea, along with weight gain)

that an oversized thyroid can obstruct your airways, hense cause the apnea.

and coughing. Which was my main complaint for 18 months before I was finally dx’d with Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, which can go from a hyper phase to hypo and back again (so don’t gauge by what her weight is).  One lobe was inflamed/enlarged and interfering with breathing while sleeping. Get her thyroid checked (educate yourself about "normal" or "abnormal" thyroid tests) esp since it runs in the family (endocrinologist).  Check for allergies, check for cough-variant asthma, x-ray of lungs (there’s lots of pulmonary problems that can cause apnea that don’t necessarily go away with a CPAP).  Make sure she’s getting at least 8 or 9 hours of undisturbed sleep, fresh air/open window, non-allergenic room and yes, get her sleep tested for apnea, low oxygen saturation and/or some of the other sleep disorders.  Rule out possible reasons first. JMO (because she doesn’t fit the profile of apnea, usually older and/or over-weight). J

Response:

"Kaysue555" <kaysue…@aol.comnojunk

wrote in message

news:20020605201125.09766.00000108@mb-fq.aol.com…

Don’t get carried away answering questions about driving.  Admitting that

you

have problems with sleepiness while driving could cost you your licence.

You mean, If I tell my doctor I can get sleepy while driving somehow they can take my license? They can do that??? CF

Response:

"CFster" <maxcfs…@yahoo.com

wrote: Don’t get carried away answering questions about driving.  Admitting that you have problems with sleepiness while driving could cost you your licence. You mean, If I tell my doctor I can get sleepy while driving somehow they can take my license? They can do that???

In some states, doctors are required to report people with untreated OSA to the DMV. You can get your license back once you prove that you’re compliant. (Given the typical bureaucracy, you could easily have your machine before they get around to pulling your license.) Tom

Response:

Question:

Dos milk really make asthma bad? I have had asthma for two year now.Iam 37 years old.

Only if you are allergic to milk or have a milk intolerance. Otherwise, you only have to worry about the calories. "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

Dos milk really make asthma bad? I have had asthma for two year now.Iam 37 years old. Only if you are allergic to milk or have a milk intolerance. Otherwise, you only have to worry about the calories.

I also worry about its *temperature*. Any food or drink that is ice-cold (cold milk, cold soda, ice-cream, etc.) seems to thicken my mucus secretions and worsen my coughing.  For years now, I drink milk and soda at room temperature, and I haven’t had ice-cream in so many years I’ve forgotten what it tastes like. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

Dos milk really make asthma bad? I have had asthma for two year now.Iam 37 years old. Love Ya Debby & Chris http://community.webtv.net/debbyinkingston/DebbysSpecialPage

Response:

Perhaps, you should start evaluating scientific research on using merit as a criteria instead of whether or not you like the results.

Thank you Colin. Since you’ve been the most decent person who has dialogued with me in the past week, I want to give you a gift.  Take it or leave it, it’s your choice.  And I mean that kindly. I was a very sickly child, and almost died from staph sepsis as a result of a knife wound.  A hand surgeon saved my hand, and I.V. penicillin in the hospital for over two weeks probably saved my life. As I mentioned in another post, I suffered horrible allergies as a child, and it wasn’t until I was a junior in college that someone helped me.  And that was a chiropractor. While in chiropractic school, I began taking supplements, as a preventive measure.  It just made sense to me.  In my professional career, now going on 21 years, I have not had more than a 2 day cold. I no longer sneeze.  And I am not a purist with my diet. Here is my supplement regimen: Full-spectrum liquid vitamin/mineral supplement Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids Mineral ascorbates Egcel antibodes – for the past 3 months only My lungs are clear, my nose is clear, I am very healthy, and that is all that I can offer to you, or anyone else.  I do not look at these things as treatments or cures for anything.  They are more like health insurance, as a preventive measure.   For the others who have dialogued with me here, thank you as well. Robert S. Bonebrake, DC

Response:

This carries critical comment too far. Attribution of a homicidal motive to this man is uncalled for and should be unacceptable in this discussion group.

The guy comes on a newsgroup identifying himself as a ‘doctor’ and begins giving medical advice on a subject which he is obviously unqualified.  I would not go as far as attributing a homicidal motive, but the term ‘careless and reckless endangerment of human life’ comes to mind. "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

When you just try to damage people’s wallets that is one thing; when

you try to kill them in the process that is another. — CBI, MD

This carries critical comment too far. Attribution of a homicidal motive to this man is uncalled for and should be unacceptable in this discussion group.      Larry

Response:

When you just try to damage people’s wallets that is one thing; when you try to kill them in the process that is another. — CBI, MD This carries critical comment too far. Attribution of a homicidal motive to this man is uncalled for and should be unacceptable in this discussion group.

Advising someone to continue consuming things they are allergic to while taking your folk remedy cannot be termed any other way. I stand by my statements. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

Hi Dave, If your son has a food allergy to milk, it’s a good idea to increase his water intake and antioxidants too, such as vitamins C, and E. Can you support your advice for the antioxidants? http://users.aol.com/healthmemo/antioxidants.htm

How can you regard this as a reliable source of information when they say this: "4. Respiratory diseases. The lungs are heavily exposed to oxidative stress and many lung diseases e.g. asthma, adult-onset respiratory distress syndrome, emphysema, hypersensitivity pneumonitis, etc. are related to this. In these diseases oxidative defenses are under severe pressure and antioxidant therapy is indicated. Smog and cigarette smoke are powerful oxidative stressors against which vitamins C and E have been shown to be protective." The last sentence is a deliberate distortion of research findings in order to support a claim (in other words it is a lie).  Everything else is just plain hokum. Also take a look at the first two references.  These are correlation studies.  The problem with correlation studies is that you cannot be sure the two things being compared actually have anything to do with each other.  Apparently either the authors do not know enough to properly evaluate medical research – or they do know and don’t care. Perhaps, you should start evaluating scientific research on using merit as a criteria instead of whether or not you like the results. "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

I’d be appalled if I weren’t so preoccupied with going to the endocrinologist for this toothache… Ok you guys, sorry about my mistake. All the best,

The endocrinologist/rheumatologist mistake was telling but laughable. Much less humorous is your potentially lethal advice to keep taking a substance you may be allergic to and just try to compensate with Vitamin C. When you just try to damage people’s wallets that is one thing; when you try to kill them in the process that is another. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

Hi Dave, If your son has a food allergy to milk, it’s a good idea to increase his water intake and antioxidants too, such as vitamins C, and E. Can you support your advice for the antioxidants?

http://users.aol.com/healthmemo/antioxidants.htm Dr.Bob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen a rheumatologist to test for food allergies? God bless, Dr.Chiropractor Bob Astonishing.     Lp ROFLMAO Just when I am tempted to insult his intelligence he renders it stating the obvious. I’d be appalled if I weren’t so preoccupied with going to the endocrinologist for this toothache…

Ok you guys, sorry about my mistake. All the best, Dr.Bob

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen a rheumatologist to test for food allergies? God bless, Dr.Chiropractor Bob Astonishing.     Lp ROFLMAO Just when I am tempted to insult his intelligence he renders it stating the obvious.

I’d be appalled if I weren’t so preoccupied with going to the endocrinologist for this toothache…

Response:

ObAsthma: I know that a lot of folks take albuterol shots before or during exercise, but this makes me feel a bit uneasy.  Being out of breath during exercise is normal, right?  

Not necessarily. With aerobic exercise, you’re supposed to still be able to speak while exercising.  If you’re so short of breath that you can’t speak, then you’re overdoing it. Shouldn’t you wait until you are wheezing before taking drugs beyond your normal dosage?  Or does the fact that the albuterol helps necessarily mean that its use was indicated?

Albuterol can head off an attack of exercise-induced asthma.  Why have an asthma attack if you can avoid it? — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

I’ve been considering whether to create killfile filter for any sender whose name contains the word "natural."  This post of Dr. Bob’s really clinched it.

I tend to killfile anyone who uses "Doctor" or "PhD" inappropriately. People who are genuinely smart and well-informed don’t fixate on (or even invent) credentials the way that losers do.     ObAsthma: I know that a lot of folks take albuterol shots before or during exercise, but this makes me feel a bit uneasy.  Being out of breath during exercise is normal, right?  Shouldn’t you wait until you are wheezing before taking drugs beyond your normal dosage?  Or does the fact that the albuterol helps necessarily mean that its use was indicated? — (650) 236-2231 [daytime]        http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ There are important differences between Milosevic and Sharon.  For example, Sharon has better hair.

Response:

Have you seen a rheumatologist to test for food allergies? God bless, Dr.Chiropractor Bob Astonishing.     Lp

I’ve been considering whether to create killfile filter for any sender whose name contains the word "natural." This post of Dr. Bob’s really clinched it. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

Response:

To add to what you said, a pulmonary doctor can also help.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night. You should ask for a referral to an asthma specialist.  There is something called ‘cough-variant asthma’ where the only obvious symptom is coughing.  (I have this myself.) "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god." Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

Hi Dave, If your son has a food allergy to milk, it’s a good idea to increase his water intake and antioxidants too, such as vitamins C, and E.

Can you support your advice for the antioxidants? "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night.

You should ask for a referral to an asthma specialist.  There is something called ‘cough-variant asthma’ where the only obvious symptom is coughing.  (I have this myself.) "With Confidence in our Armed Forces –  with the determination of our people –  we will gain the inevitable triumph –  so help us god."   Franklin Delano Roseveldt, 8 december 1941

Response:

Hi, I am new but I had to respond to this because I really hate to see a child in pain or sick.  You didn’t say if it was a dry cough, or deep cough or a productive one.  It makes a difference.  Does he have a runny nose? or feel like it?  The reason for the questions is this:  It can be a sinus infection, bronchille tube infection or irratation.  Another thing that it can be is post nasal drip to the back of his throat. How do I come to these ideas?  Because I am having the same problem with a cough.  You really should contact his doctor again about it and see what he says or if you should bring him in.  Your child doesn’t need to get the fluid or whatever is causing it into his lungs.  It sounds like it should be a simple fix.  I hope being new, I did not over step my boundries by responding to you.  I know Fran, John Riggs (friends) and Tom comes to my CD group.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night. Dave

Response:

could be milk.  try rotation diet to determine what specific food allergies are.  had to do that with my sister at about 2.  also, a lot of milk derivitives are in everyday food.  sodium casinate, whey, others.  all bothered my sister, wasn’t just lactose intolerance.  also chocolate.  see a pediatric allergist if possible.  cough could be due to post nasal drainage – does he sniffle or snort a lot?   maybe singular will help, i now sleep all night, used to wake up coughing. by the way, i have had asthma my whole life but wasn’t diagnosed until over 30.  never had tightness in chest.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night. Dave

Response:

Have you seen a rheumatologist to test for food allergies? God bless, Dr.Chiropractor Bob

Astonishing.     Lp

Response:

Have you seen a rheumatologist to test for food allergies? God bless, Dr.Chiropractor Bob Astonishing.     Lp

ROFLMAO Just when I am tempted to insult his intelligence he renders it stating the obvious. — CBI, MD "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." -Andre Gide

Response:

Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  

Then your doctor doesn’t know much about asthma. Chronic coughing spasms can indicate asthma even without breathing difficulty. Ask your doctor if he ever heard of "cough-variant asthma." We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night.

Does your son have coughing problems with any other cold foods (e.g., soda, fruit juice from the refrigerator)?  It’s possible his cough is being exacerbated by the cold temperature of the milk.  See if your son’s coughing improves if he drinks the milk at room temperature, or maybe even a bit warmer than that. Also, can you recall how the coughing started in the first place?  Was it after a bad cold?  If so, your son might have a lingering sinus infection.  Sinusitis is frequently missed in children. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night. Dave

Hi Dave, If your son has a food allergy to milk, it’s a good idea to increase his water intake and antioxidants too, such as vitamins C, and E. Wheat and peanut butter are common food allergens too. Have you seen a rheumatologist to test for food allergies? God bless, Dr.Chiropractor Bob

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Our 6 year old has been coughing almost non stop for the last 6 – 8 weeks. We’ve had him on his nebulizer, flovent, etc.. with no luck in stopping the cough.  Our doctor does not think it’s asthma since there is no tightness in the chest.  We have a suspicion that it might be a food alergy e.g. milk and are trying to give him soy subtitutes to see what happens.  Could this just be a tough season with spring coming early up here in PA?  Is anyone else experiencing syptoms like these in their young childen and if so have you found a solution to the problem?  He seems fine at night. Dave

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Question:

Think of something with the shape and consistency of a very short piece of overcooked spaghetti.  

I’ve had a couple of them recently. — Paul Cummins – Always a Nethead          |  /"    ASCII RIBBON Wasting bandwidth since 1981             +   /      CAMPAIGN Tel: 07021 117179  Fax: 07092 105150     |   X   AGAINST HTML MAIL

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What does a "plug" look like?? The last physician I consulted didn’t want to look at my sputum or anything else he considered "disgusting."  No joke. Think of something with the shape and consistency of a very short piece of overcooked spaghetti.

OK, that’s not what my sputum looks like.  Sorry to have bothered you. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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What does a "plug" look like?? The last physician I consulted didn’t want to look at my sputum or anything else he considered "disgusting."  No joke.

Think of something with the shape and consistency of a very short piece of overcooked spaghetti.   "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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Mucous plugs are tubular or worm shaped mucous typically coughed up. These plugs completely block the airways they are in.  If you got these, you need to see your doctor. Colin, you must have much better doctors than I have been able to find. My doctors don’t care how the quality of my life is suffering, so long as they have "stabilized" my condition enough to keep me out of the ER. I don’t have SOB, I don’t have wheezing right now, so they’re happy. Chronic productive coughing they don’t consider a big deal.  I’m not happy.

Are you coughing up _mucous plugs_?  From your earlier post I got the impression that this was not the case. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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I have cough-variant asthma. A situation I’m getting more and more is that I’ll start feeling SOB and start coughing – a lot, as if to breathe. Just a dry cough. Eventually though, a big plug of perfectly clear but thick as glue mucous comes up. I can’t tell where it’s coming from, but afterwards I breathe better.

As a first guess, the mucus plug in the throat might be post nasal drip from the upper nasal area. As a result of rhinitis or sinusitis causing mucus to drip down the throat and collect, then coughed up. This is a common cause of cough-variant asthma. An ENT can check this out; he can run an endoscope up your nose and take a look for excess mucus. Usually a steroid nasal spray would be prescribed like Nasonex. Other measures can help, like saline nasal washes. It’s important to keep your nasal passages open, to be able to breath thru them. A 2nd possibility is GE reflux. Ellis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mucous plugs are tubular or worm shaped mucous typically coughed up. These plugs completely block the airways they are in.  If you got these, you need to see your doctor. Colin, you must have much better doctors than I have been able to find. My doctors don’t care how the quality of my life is suffering, so long as they have "stabilized" my condition enough to keep me out of the ER. I don’t have SOB, I don’t have wheezing right now, so they’re happy. Chronic productive coughing they don’t consider a big deal.  I’m not happy. Are you coughing up _mucous plugs_?  From your earlier post I got the impression that this was not the case.

What does a "plug" look like?? The last physician I consulted didn’t want to look at my sputum or anything else he considered "disgusting."  No joke. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Contact your doctor.  These are called ‘mucous plugs’ and they block the airways in your lungs.  Your asthma is dangerously out of control. I’ve got excessive mucus secretion too–thick yellow gunk–though so far not enough to cause SOB in my case. What can be done about this problem? Can oral steroids diminish this tendency to secrete mucus? Is there ANYTHING known to medical science that can diminish this tendency to secrete these mucus plugs? Mucous plugs are tubular or worm shaped mucous typically coughed up. These plugs completely block the airways they are in.  If you got these, you need to see your doctor.

Colin, you must have much better doctors than I have been able to find. My doctors don’t care how the quality of my life is suffering, so long as they have "stabilized" my condition enough to keep me out of the ER. I don’t have SOB, I don’t have wheezing right now, so they’re happy. Chronic productive coughing they don’t consider a big deal.  I’m not happy. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What blood pressure drug? You shouldn’t be using a beta blocker drug since they can cause asthma. No beta blockers. One angiotensin II receptor blockers (Avapro), on calcium channel blocker (Plendil) and furosemide (Lasix) What asthma drug for the coughing? A Ventolin [albuterol/salbutamol] inhaler usually prescribed as a start. You might also need a steroid inhaler, like Pulmicort. Already on Flovent 250 Maybe chronic bronchitis? Have you ever smoked? Drinking more water helps thin mucus making it easier to cough up. Never smoke a day in my life.

Neither have I, and as I’ve mentioned before, I cough up these blobs of thick yellow phlegm every single damn day.  And as far as I can tell, the meds the doctors use for chronic bronchitis are similar to the meds they use for asthma.  Maybe for chronic bronchitis they prescribe more Atrovent, but that’s about it.   — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to figure out if this is a blood pressure medication reaction or just a normal asthma thing. I have cough-variant asthma. A situation I’m getting more and more is that I’ll start feeling SOB and start coughing – a lot, as if to breathe. Just a dry cough. Eventually though, a big plug of perfectly clear but thick as glue mucous comes up. I can’t tell where it’s coming from, but afterwards I breathe better. Anybody else have this? Contact your doctor.  These are called ‘mucous plugs’ and they block the airways in your lungs.  Your asthma is dangerously out of control.

I’ve got excessive mucus secretion too–thick yellow gunk–though so far not enough to cause SOB in my case. What can be done about this problem? Can oral steroids diminish this tendency to secrete mucus? Is there ANYTHING known to medical science that can diminish this tendency to secrete these mucus plugs? — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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Contact your doctor.  These are called ‘mucous plugs’ and they block the airways in your lungs.  Your asthma is dangerously out of control. I’ve got excessive mucus secretion too–thick yellow gunk–though so far not enough to cause SOB in my case. What can be done about this problem? Can oral steroids diminish this tendency to secrete mucus? Is there ANYTHING known to medical science that can diminish this tendency to secrete these mucus plugs?

Mucous plugs are tubular or worm shaped mucous typically coughed up. These plugs completely block the airways they are in.  If you got these, you need to see your doctor. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

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I’m trying to figure out if this is a blood pressure medication reaction or just a normal asthma thing.

What blood pressure drug? You shouldn’t be using a beta blocker drug since they can cause asthma. I have cough-variant asthma. A situation I’m getting more and more is that I’ll start feeling SOB and start coughing – a lot, as if to breathe.

What asthma drug for the coughing? A Ventolin [albuterol/salbutamol] inhaler usually prescribed as a start. You might also need a steroid inhaler, like Pulmicort.  Just a dry cough. Eventually though, a big plug of perfectly clear but thick as glue mucous comes up.

Maybe chronic bronchitis? Have you ever smoked? Drinking more water helps thin mucus making it easier to cough up.  I can’t tell where it’s coming from, but afterwards I breathe better. Anybody else have this?

Lots. Time to see a doctor to get your problems diagnosed.  Mucus plug could be from lungs, or nose, or stomach. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pete

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Our cat sometimes coughs up a fur ball which is the same shape  but is not filled with mucus  perhaps there is somethingin the air which is causing your mucus plug Our cat has not had a fur ball for years possiby becauseshehas a therapy brush with no bristles but all rubbery grooves  which iuse to stroke her back from head totail – that just  might prevent plugged air passages She had a slight fit a couple of weeks ago  a spasm passed up the backof herneck as though she was goingto cough up a fur ball  but it was only slight and no fur ball She is going through emotional stress aththemoment because of dathof our dog who was a wonderful companion to he r

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Mucous plugs are tubular or worm shaped mucous typically coughed up. These plugs completely block the airways they are in.  If you got these, you need to see your doctor.

My loved one had a serious problem with mucus plugs just before his asthma was diagnosed.  Now that he’s properly medicated (Pulmicort, Serevent, Atrovent, Singulair), the problem doesn’t recur.  According to him, the Atrovent is the drug that makes the biggest difference. — (650) 236-2231 [daytime]        http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/ "Suddenly the United States found its power checked in a thousand different ways, but . . .  it had not yet generated a vision of the world . . . as subtle, nuanced, and cunning as the world itself.  The world had changed, and America was not ready when it did." — Thomas Friedman, _From Beirut to Jerusalem_, 1989

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I’m trying to figure out if this is a blood pressure medication reaction or just a normal asthma thing. I have cough-variant asthma. A situation I’m getting more and more is that I’ll start feeling SOB and start coughing – a lot, as if to breathe. Just a dry cough. Eventually though, a big plug of perfectly clear but thick as glue mucous comes up. I can’t tell where it’s coming from, but afterwards I breathe better. Anybody else have this?

Contact your doctor.  These are called ‘mucous plugs’ and they block the airways in your lungs.  Your asthma is dangerously out of control. "The commander in the field is always right and the rear echelon is wrong, unless proved otherwise."    General Colin Powell

Response:

I’m trying to figure out if this is a blood pressure medication reaction or just a normal asthma thing. I have cough-variant asthma. A situation I’m getting more and more is that I’ll start feeling SOB and start coughing – a lot, as if to breathe. Just a dry cough. Eventually though, a big plug of perfectly clear but thick as glue mucous comes up. I can’t tell where it’s coming from, but afterwards I breathe better. Anybody else have this? Pete

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Question:

Heather Jacoby lazily dreamed into the stars: I’ve had asthma for approximately 22 years now. I *know* when I’m in trouble.

Same here.  I’ve had severe asthma my whole life — almost 25 years — and an sensitive enough to slight changes in my breathing that I notice problems way in advance.  (For me, "problems" means needing the neb machine more than three times in a day.  Normally I need it morning & night.) I used the Peak Flow tracking stuff for seven years, then realized I had learned by "feel" what the numbers would be ahead of time.  At that point I gave up on it and just told the doctor/nurse what I knew my rating to be without mentioning that I wasn’t relying on equipment to get my results. Consider the Peak Flow Meter just to be a translator from "what I know" to "what they want" — once you pick up the "translations" then you don’t need the external device to do it for you.  Giving them what they want (numbers) will make them much more likely to give you whatever it is *you* want, so a couple days of charting is a good trade for years of extra help. YMMV of course.  :^) Moggy

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Is there a daily diary type of software that could be used to track not only peak flow and such but foods eaten, exercise taken, migraine or not, etc.?

There is actually a website that will enable you to set up an asthma diary for tracking the symptoms and test results: http://www.njc.org/interactive.html I’ve never used this website myself either, so I cannot tell you much more about it. If you’re interested, be sure to check their privacy policy first. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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Is there a daily diary type of software that could be used to track not only peak flow and such but foods eaten, exercise taken, migraine or not, etc.? Since I do software development as part of my work, I’ll see if I can come up with something to contribute as a freebee to the community.  It will probably take a couple weeks to do, and I’ll post it for those who want it (Win95/98/NT/2000).  Suggestions for things to be tracked are welcome.

I’ll check out the pgms listed by Steve L, but here are my thoughts.  My needs are not universal, I’m sure.  It’s easy to overdo things.  I’d want to keep track of Date Outdoor Temperature Foods consumed Medicines used Vitamins consumed Headache 0-9 Stomach acid/GERD 0-9 Peak Flow Rate my asthma 0-9 Rate my rhinitis 0-9 Rate my seasonal allergies 0-9 Suffering from a cold 0-9 Mold count Tree pollen count Grass pollen count I dunno, I could go on and on.  I am trying to find a pattern in my asthma/rhinitis.

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I too use a Peak Flow Meter but for many different reasons. Sometimes I use it for reassurance that I am okay and my asthma isn’t getting bad at that moment. Other times I use it to make sure my treatment is still giving me the right results. And when I get a cold I use it frequently to see how much I’m slipping so I know when it is time to go to the doctor for oral prednisone. Without a peak flow I would wait too long. I love my peak flow meter and believe everyone should have one and use it! And it does help explain where you are at asthma wise when you talk to your doc! Dana

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snip However, I do use it when I’m having trouble, or think I might be having trouble, since it allows me to quantify my discomfort for the doctor’s sake–I can say "I’m usually at 600, and I’m down to 400," which is obviously more meaningful to her than "I’m wheezing." Giving a medical professional a concrete bit of data to go on can speed things up in an emergency situation, too.

Yep. And with us cough-variant sorts who are in trouble long before we start wheezing, telling a medical professional that "I’m in my red zone and nothing’s working" gets faster results than going through the song and dance of blowing and having them tell you there’s nothing wrong based on general stats for your age and height.  I have a much higher lung capacity than the general stats for my age and height, so with a peak flow I’ve got a better argument that I’m having trouble. jrw

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Is there a daily diary type of software that could be used to track not only peak flow and such but foods eaten, exercise taken, migraine or not, etc.?

Since I do software development as part of my work, I’ll see if I can come up with something to contribute as a freebee to the community.  It will probably take a couple weeks to do, and I’ll post it for those who want it (Win95/98/NT/2000).  Suggestions for things to be tracked are welcome.

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Is there a daily diary type of software that could be used to track not only peak flow and such but foods eaten, exercise taken, migraine or not, etc.?

This program, "HealthEngage Asthma," claims to do that: http://www.healthengage.com/products.html http://www.healthengage.com/moreinfo-at.html It also claims to work with PDAs and PocketPCs. I’ve never used it myself, so I can’t verify the claims. [Disclaimer:  I'm not affiliated with the vendor in any way.] — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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I have both cough-variant asthma and sinus problems.  For me the peak flow meter is a useful ‘confidence tool’ that the cough is the post nasal drip and not asthma.

Even in the worst of my coughing fits–even when I have had some wheezing–my peak flows didn’t decrease much below normal. My main symptom is the excessive secretion of thick bronchial and tracheal mucus, which causes the coughing.  I wish there were some way to detect THAT in advance. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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Is there a daily diary type of software that could be used to track not only peak flow and such but foods eaten, exercise taken, migraine or not, etc.?

Now I ask… Why does he want me to use this? IF you keep good records, your doc can use the info to modify your medication to your advantage.  I wrote software to make plots of pef results. There are a couple of commercially available programs that do this too:

http://download.cnet.com/downloads/1,10150,0-10001-103-0-1-7,00.html?… h&qt=asthma&cn=&ca=10001 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Steven D. Litvintchouk

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I actually understand Heather’s point, as–possibly because my attacks usually start in my small airways–I generally feel I’m wheezing long before it’s reflected in my peak flow–I’m also an "experienced asthmatic" after 34 years of it.  It’s only really come in handy during an extended attack; after a few days I lose my reference point. Often I use it as reassurance; I can tell when I’m going down but not so easily when I’m coming up! I talked to my allergist about this, and she agrees that some people are sensitive enough that the "early warning" of a peak-flow meter is negligible.  I’m extremely sensitive about bodily sensations to begin with; I have known a couple of people who actually didn’t know they were wheezing when *I* could tell they were. However, I do use it when I’m having trouble, or think I might be having trouble, since it allows me to quantify my discomfort for the doctor’s sake–I can say "I’m usually at 600, and I’m down to 400," which is obviously more meaningful to her than "I’m wheezing." Giving a medical professional a concrete bit of data to go on can speed things up in an emergency situation, too.

I have both cough-variant asthma and sinus problems.  For me the peak flow meter is a useful ‘confidence tool’ that the cough is the post nasal drip and not asthma. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

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All my life, docs have been harping on me to start using a I’ve had asthma for approximately 22 years now. I *know* when I’m in trouble. Using a peak flow would aggravate the problem, because I can’t afford the breath. Also, since I’ve become better acquainted with my asthma over the years, I have avoided many of the hospital visits with quick and persistant treatment. Why waste my time?

I’ve had asthma for many years too but I’ve recently started to use a peak flow and find it useful. Obviously I do pay attention to symptoms but I find peak flow to be more sensitive. It tells me whether I’m at 300 rather than 400 (i.e. I’m a bit tight but probably wouldn’t notice it otherwise). Also my asthma dips substantially overnight. By measuring the difference between evening and morning I can see whether I should take action the night before even if its doesn’t seem too bad at the time. One of the difficulties is that the worse your asthma is the harder it is to get emergency drugs to work and of course the harder it is to arrange assistance. Being able to tell accurately has made a big difference to me; A&E visits and visits to my doctor rather than weeks off work and hospital admission. The other situation is where something other than asthma is causing me to feel tired, HTH.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All my life, docs have been harping on me to start using a peak flow meter! This new doctor that I have also gave me the lecture and a new peak flow meter, which he set up for me. Now I ask… Why does he want me to use this? He told me that if I was in the "Yellow" zone, I should use my inhaler, and if I was in the "red" zone, I should call the ambulance. One of the things a peak flow meter can do is to provide early warning of trouble.

I actually understand Heather’s point, as–possibly because my attacks usually start in my small airways–I generally feel I’m wheezing long before it’s reflected in my peak flow–I’m also an "experienced asthmatic" after 34 years of it.  It’s only really come in handy during an extended attack; after a few days I lose my reference point. Often I use it as reassurance; I can tell when I’m going down but not so easily when I’m coming up! I talked to my allergist about this, and she agrees that some people are sensitive enough that the "early warning" of a peak-flow meter is negligible.  I’m extremely sensitive about bodily sensations to begin with; I have known a couple of people who actually didn’t know they were wheezing when *I* could tell they were. However, I do use it when I’m having trouble, or think I might be having trouble, since it allows me to quantify my discomfort for the doctor’s sake–I can say "I’m usually at 600, and I’m down to 400," which is obviously more meaningful to her than "I’m wheezing." Giving a medical professional a concrete bit of data to go on can speed things up in an emergency situation, too. zg

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All my life, docs have been harping on me to start using a peak flow meter! This new doctor that I have also gave me the lecture and a new peak flow meter, which he set up for me. Now I ask… Why does he want me to use this? He told me that if I was in the "Yellow" zone, I should use my inhaler, and if I was in the "red" zone, I should call the ambulance.

One of the things a peak flow meter can do is to provide early warning of trouble. — We make war so we may live in peace. Aristotle

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Now I ask… Why does he want me to use this? IF you keep good records, your doc can use the info to modify your medication to your advantage.  I wrote software to make plots of pef results.

There are a couple of commercially available programs that do this too: http://download.cnet.com/downloads/1,10150,0-10001-103-0-1-7,00.html?… — Steven D. Litvintchouk                  

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All my life, docs have been harping on me to start using a peak flow meter! This new doctor that I have also gave me the lecture and a new peak flow meter, which he set up for me. Now I ask… Why does he want me to use this? He told me that if I was in the "Yellow" zone, I should use my inhaler, and if I was in the "red" zone, I should call the ambulance. I just looked at him. I’ve had asthma for approximately 22 years now. I *know* when I’m in trouble. Using a peak flow would aggravate the problem, because I can’t afford the breath. Also, since I’ve become better acquainted with my asthma over the years, I have avoided many of the hospital visits with quick and persistant treatment. Why waste my time? Heather

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Now I ask… Why does he want me to use this?

IF you keep good records, your doc can use the info to modify your medication to your advantage.  I wrote software to make plots of pef results. I do not like to make more meds than I need.  We tried reducing my Pulmicort for a while.  After a few weeks, my plots showed that it wasn’t a good idea and I returned to the previous dosage. Ted

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