Question:
When I was 14 or 15 years old I volunteered at the local hospital as a candy striper. One of the duties I was given was to copy and coalate an ostomy manual. This was in the days before auto feed and auto staple functions on copy machines. Anyway, it was a slow project and as an avid reader I read the manual as I went along. I was sickened. How could anyone choose to live like that? Wasn’t death better than this? I was 19 when I was diagnosed with UC. I read all I could and firmly decided that I would kill myself when I got sick enough to need an ostomy. I was 30 when they had to remove my colon. While I was willing to accept a temporary ileostomy, I was adamant that I would kill myself if it was permanant. When my Dr. couldn’t make me a j-pouch he gave me a straight ileoanal anastimosis. He knew how I felt. One would assume from my tale that it was the thought of having an ostomy that made me depressed and suicidal. It wasn’t. I was depressed and lonely first. When I was 13 my dad retired from the Army and we shifted to civililan life. I felt like an alien. I didn’t have any friends, and all my neighbors and classmates grew up together. Newcomers weren’t welcome. At 19 I had just finished my freshman year in college and as usual had a difficult time fitting in. I was very lonely and depressed. At 30 I was unhappy with my job, far from my family, and engaged to a man I didn’t love. My colitis flare was so bad I couldn’t eat or drink and I was actually too sick for them to operate. Everytime I’ve thought of suicide and "blamed" the thought of having an ostomy, I was depressed to begin with. The thoughts of having an ostomy were just a convenient excuse I could use. I believed all the myths and misconceptions I’d heard about ostomy life. " Who could blame me for being depressed and suicidal? What rational person would be willing to wear a stinky, bulging, bag of shit? No one would ever want to be my friend, let alone my lover? Right?" It was only when I got my head together, when I started feeling good about myself, when I got out of the big black pit, when that big black dog stopped nipping at my heels. That was when I was strong enough and frankly mature enough to decide to LIVE life to the fullest and have my ileostomy installed. It was the best health — both mental and physical — decision I ever made. Barbara Skoglund (I) Barbara.A.Skoglun…@tc.umn.edu ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Response:
Barbara:Thanks so much for sharing that.I was diagnosed with crohns at 21,my last year of college,it had been the best time in my life,till I got crohns,things really fell apart.Ive been through 14 major surgeries,12 to repair retal/vaginal fistula,all failed.I had agreed to a temporary illeostomy,but swore I would rather die than have a permanent one.Finally ,my surgeon refused to keep operating,he wanted me to agree to a permanent ostomy,and remove my rectum,and colon,it took along time,but I finally couodnt take being incontinent anymore,so I agreed.Suicide,really couldnt be an option,at anytime as I have a 14 year old daughter,and am a single mom.Im still sick,not well enough to work,but Im still better off with ostomy,im no longer incontinent!!I and i know others who would really like to read your story,would you mind posting this on another board?If so here the addy:www.insidetheweb.com/mbs.cgi/mb69273,its the Ostomy/IBD board.Come visit,we are a very friendly board.
Response:
You wrote….
I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with!
Keep in mind, when you first had that "original equipment", you didn’t handle IT too well either at first. You had it around for 2 to 3 years before you had an idea of having it work when YOU wanted it to. Check with moms and pops of kids in that age range if you don’t have a very good independent memory of back then (who does?). New equipment deserves the same "break in" time, doesn’t it? There’s also a lot of "it" out there, whatever "it " is for YOU, and "it"’s being as patient as "it" can be until you get there. I’d hate to check out without knowing what "it" is. :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< :< Carol J. J. Beavercreek, Ohio gnjc…@cfanet.com
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It was my impression when I first read this post that it was written by either the "troll" or his new counterpart. I dont believe that this "cry for help" is legitimate. Rene – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -T & D wrote in message <70a6ma$…@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net
… Maybe it’s just my suspicious mind but something about this original posting just doesn’t sit quite right with me… David Tony Cassie wrote in message <709nc7$3c…@newnews.global.net.uk… Jeff wrote in message <3628fc24.8497…@news.albany.net… On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!! I’d use carbon monoxide. Just park your car in a small garage and leave it running. Actually, I was dead serious -pun intended. She asked for advice, which I gave her. Suicide is sometime a genuine option for people. I fully support a person’s right to live or die. She/he didn’t ask for support, she/he ask for a good way to end her his pain. I gave it to her him. Who was more supportive? Me, or you hand holding, sniveling, selfish people who want her to continue living with things she cannot?
Hello Jeff It is hard for me to know if you are serious in your postings, without seeing your face and hearing the inflection in your voice, the bare words of what you say are distasteful to me, and I suspect, to others here as well. There are five newsgroups devoted to suicide and its methods on my server., perhaps your advice should be directed there. Are you an ostomist? were you totally ok with this new situation from the start, did the nurse in hospital just give you a box of pouches and say’ read the instructions, get on with it’ or did she, as I suspect, give you support and advice on the different methods employed by people with ostomies. The ostomy nurse has vast knowledge on the subject. we in this group have experience in living with an ostomy, we are pleased to pass this information on in order to help others. I ask you, have you never felt down about your ostomy, have you never asked anyone for advice, and more to the point , if a member of your family turned to a stranger in despair, would you be pleased for them to get the advice you offer here? I do not think of myself as a ‘hand holding, snivelling, selfish person’. as you so delightfully describe me. I manage my colostomy well and manage to run a business. but there are others who have not come to terms with their new life yet, and need a supportive hand. thats what we are here for. support. Enjoy your health Tony
Response:
That was my first impression, too! David Nick & Rene Marinelli wrote in message … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
It was my impression when I first read this post that it was written by
either
the "troll" or his new counterpart. I dont believe that this "cry for
help" is
legitimate. Rene T & D wrote in message <70a6ma$…@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net… Maybe it’s just my suspicious mind but something about this original
posting
just doesn’t sit quite right with me… David Tony Cassie wrote in message <709nc7$3c…@newnews.global.net.uk… Jeff wrote in message <3628fc24.8497…@news.albany.net… On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
Response:
In article <36292b39.3575…@news.albany.net
,
jroulier@[nospam]albany.net (Jeff) wrote:
Actually, I was dead serious -pun intended. She asked for advice, which I gave her. Suicide is sometime a genuine option for people. I fully support a person’s right to live or die. She/he didn’t ask for support, she/he ask for a good way to end her his pain. I gave it to her him. Who was more supportive? Me, or you hand holding, sniveling, selfish people who want her to continue living with things she cannot?
You insensitive jerk! If you knew anything about anything, you would know that most people know how to commit suicide. It’s those that don’t know how to ask for help. Usually when someone is asking for help on how to commit suicide, they are crying out for help in dealing with their life, not wanting to take it. We are not "selfish people who want her to continue living with things she cannot." On the contrary, we are people who have BEEN THERE DONE THAT, and know how to deal with things to get on with life and live a quality life after ostomy. After all, there are worse things in life to deal with, including insensitive bums. It’s society that makes it difficult to live with an ostomy because they don’t think we’re "normal." But on the contrary, we are more "normal" than those without ostomies as we care, we have very sensitive feelings, and we want to help people cope because there is LIFE after ostomy. If you don’t care and don’t have any compassion about you to help people deal and live, then go away. It’s better to help them cope rather than help them dig a hole deeper. After all, what is suicide? The end. Then what? What about all the people who care for that person deeply? What about their lives? Crystal ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Response:
In article <36292b39.3575…@news.albany.net
, jroulier@[nospam]albany.net (Jeff) wrote:
There is no such thing as "Good Advice" when you are telling someone HOW TO DIE! Having staved off that forbidding event not once BUT, THREE times in my life, the only advice I can condone is POSITIVE advice. Death helps noone! Anyone who activily attempts to advise another person on how to ened their life is ALMOST the lowest form of life I can think of! I can understand the view of the potential "victim" in almost each case, however assisting that person is the same as standing on the street and calling to potential jumper to JUMP! If a person makes so bold a statement as to publicly ask for help in killing themselves it is at the same time a plea for someone to talk with them and offer other choices! To help them NOT kill themselves! I would be more than willing to talk with anyone who has this thought on killing themselves, I would happily sit and chat, or even just listen and provide a scratching post to anyone who believes that this is their only choice, There are other choices! I for one would like to help anyone discover those "other choices". Finally to those of you who believe that suicide is a "good" choice" I just have this to say, You haven’t lost a close friend or family member in this manner, IT STINKS! I expect that atleast one or two of you will have some comeback to this post, if you have already posted with your idiotic advice about how wonderful it is to kill yourself. Why not keep your trap shut, you’ve had your say and it’s probably done more than enough damage! I can’t even bring myself to tell you to try out your own advice, for even you don’t deserve that advice! Life is short enough as it is!
Response:
Several friends (three, to be exact–that I know of) have killed themselves because of the pain of cancer, etc. with detailed advice and pills from their doctors. They were NOT new ostomates with a bit of depression–they were opposed to prolonging agony and living in pain or a vegetative state. One asked me to help while I was in hospital having my ileostomy surgery, in fact. It was always painful for all involved…and not an outgrowth of depression. John
Response:
Dear Jeff, Have you ever wanted to die or committ suicide? I have. In those times you see things only as "black and white", no shades of grey. It’s either live life like ”this" or die and be better off or what ever is your belief when you are dead. the problem with that is things (except for Truth) are never black and white, there are greys, in other words there are choices that have not been considered because we are too depressed to be creative enough to see them for ourselves, or other people have not opened our eyes to see these options. It is not a matter of us being selfish in have this person live with something they feel they cannot, it is a matter of showing alternatives so this person can have some hope and a ‘free will’ choice. I know the depths of depression where the only excape seemed to be death but I was never good at my attempts no matter who cleverly i thought of doing it, they always failed.. If they had not failed I would be dead and not had the opportunity to help take care of my grandmother when she was dying, I would not be here to be supportive of my friends, to help them with their children or their just needing someone to talk to, I would not be here to sponser a child in the Dominican Republic through Compassion international so that she can have food and an education, and all the other things I do and am for others, I would not have the Joy that I live with now if I had died. The sun eventually shines! There is help and there are people, even strangers who are willing to help and to love another enough not to give them what they ‘think’ they need but rather what they are really asking for, their heart’s desire to loved unconditionally and to have their needs met. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Actually, I was dead serious -pun intended. She asked for advice, which I gave her. Suicide is sometime a genuine option for people. I fully support a person’s right to live or die. She/he didn’t ask for support, she/he ask for a good way to end her his pain. I gave it to her him. Who was more supportive? Me, or you hand holding, sniveling, selfish people who want her to continue living with things she cannot?
Response:
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:16:19 +0100, "Tony Cassie" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<cas…@globalnet.co.uk
wrote: Jeff wrote in message <3628fc24.8497…@news.albany.net… On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!! I’d use carbon monoxide. Just park your car in a small garage and leave it running. Pills are too dangerous. They may not be complete, and you could end up in a coma or worse. A shotgun in the mouth is definitely effective, but too messy. You have to think of those that are going to find you. If you don’t like any of those, get the book "Final Exit. It has many good ways to do it. Good luck. I’d ask you how you made out, but if you’re sucessful, I’ll never know for sure. —————– Well Jeff, I hope you feel pleased with your offering regarding World3’s cry for help. This is a newsgroup for ostomy support, and thats what World3 asked for, support, not smart arse quips and black humour. Perhaps you were trying reverse psychology on World3, perhaps not. Your words came across as hard, cruel and misplaced. and may even have caused World3 to feel more alienated and desperate. Let us assume that all postings here are genuine and give them kind and constructive support. Tony
Actually, I was dead serious -pun intended. She asked for advice, which I gave her. Suicide is sometime a genuine option for people. I fully support a person’s right to live or die. She/he didn’t ask for support, she/he ask for a good way to end her his pain. I gave it to her him. Who was more supportive? Me, or you hand holding, sniveling, selfish people who want her to continue living with things she cannot?
Response:
To World3: Tell us some about yourself. How long have you had your ostomy? What kind of problems are you having with it?
Response:
Suspicions are not good to act upon in cases like this because they could be wrong. Better to err with what is safe. I’d rather feel like a fool instead of being a fool. (I’m not calling you a fool, please don’t be offended) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -T & D wrote in message <70a6ma$…@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net
… Maybe it’s just my suspicious mind but something about this original
posting
just doesn’t sit quite right with me… David Tony Cassie wrote in message <709nc7$3c…@newnews.global.net.uk… Jeff wrote in message <3628fc24.8497…@news.albany.net… On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!! I’d use carbon monoxide. Just park your car in a small garage and leave it running. Pills are too dangerous. They may not be complete, and you could end up in a coma or worse. A shotgun in the mouth is definitely effective, but too messy. You have to think of those that are going to find you. If you don’t like any of those, get the book "Final Exit. It has many good ways to do it. Good luck. I’d ask you how you made out, but if you’re sucessful, I’ll never know for sure. —————– Well Jeff, I hope you feel pleased with your offering regarding World3’s cry for help. This is a newsgroup for ostomy support, and thats what World3 asked for, support, not smart arse quips and black humour. Perhaps you were trying reverse psychology on World3, perhaps not. Your words came across as hard, cruel and misplaced. and may even have caused World3 to feel more alienated and desperate. Let us assume that all postings here are genuine and give them kind and constructive support. Tony
Response:
On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net
wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
I’d use carbon monoxide. Just park your car in a small garage and leave it running. Pills are too dangerous. They may not be complete, and you could end up in a coma or worse. A shotgun in the mouth is definitely effective, but too messy. You have to think of those that are going to find you. If you don’t like any of those, get the book "Final Exit. It has many good ways to do it. Good luck. I’d ask you how you made out, but if you’re sucessful, I’ll never know for sure.
Response:
Now why would you want to go and take your life over your colostomy? You should just be thankful that you are alive. There are so many people in this world that are a whole lot worse off, that they would probably love to trade places with you and take your colostomy, to left you suffer with what they are dealing with. Just be thankful to be alive. I have an illeostomy and only have 20 inches of small bowel left. I have to infuse TPN for the rest of my life, and I am now fighting the possibility of having Thyroid cancer. But I sure am not going to give up on myself. When I got my illeostomy it gave me my life back. Having Crohn’s disease is not a pleasant experience. I wish it was just a colostomy to deal with. Be happy go say some prayers and ask for some guidance. I am sorry I am not putting you down but you need to seek out some professional help. Diana
Response:
I really hope this person is alright. Suicide is final/serious! It does not mean someone is a loser. Depression is a medical condition. How can anyone make fun/be mean to this person??? We who have IBD should be more kind. IBD is a disease too. I had to deal with depression after My ostomy surgery. You just have to hold on tight to life..
Response:
Jeff wrote in message <3628fc24.8497…@news.albany.net
… On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!! I’d use carbon monoxide. Just park your car in a small garage and leave it running. Pills are too dangerous. They may not be complete, and you could end up in a coma or worse. A shotgun in the mouth is definitely effective, but too messy. You have to think of those that are going to find you. If you don’t like any of those, get the book "Final Exit. It has many good ways to do it. Good luck. I’d ask you how you made out, but if you’re sucessful, I’ll never know for sure.
—————– Well Jeff, I hope you feel pleased with your offering regarding World3’s cry for help. This is a newsgroup for ostomy support, and thats what World3 asked for, support, not smart arse quips and black humour. Perhaps you were trying reverse psychology on World3, perhaps not. Your words came across as hard, cruel and misplaced. and may even have caused World3 to feel more alienated and desperate. Let us assume that all postings here are genuine and give them kind and constructive support. Tony
Response:
Maybe it’s just my suspicious mind but something about this original posting just doesn’t sit quite right with me… David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony Cassie wrote in message <709nc7$3c…@newnews.global.net.uk
… Jeff wrote in message <3628fc24.8497…@news.albany.net… On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!! I’d use carbon monoxide. Just park your car in a small garage and leave it running. Pills are too dangerous. They may not be complete, and you could end up in a coma or worse. A shotgun in the mouth is definitely effective, but too messy. You have to think of those that are going to find you. If you don’t like any of those, get the book "Final Exit. It has many good ways to do it. Good luck. I’d ask you how you made out, but if you’re sucessful, I’ll never know for sure. —————– Well Jeff, I hope you feel pleased with your offering regarding World3’s
cry
for help. This is a newsgroup for ostomy support, and thats what World3 asked for, support, not smart arse quips and black humour. Perhaps you were trying reverse psychology on World3, perhaps not. Your words came across as hard, cruel and misplaced. and may even have caused World3 to feel more alienated and desperate. Let us assume that all postings here are genuine and give them kind and constructive support. Tony
Response:
World3 wrote:
I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with!
Just what exactly can’t you deal with? Your colostomy can’t be that big of a deal as to end your life. How long have you had it? If you haven’t had it long, give it a chance before you pass judgement. The fact that you posted here indicates you would like some help with your ostomy and not suicide. I am sure there are thousands of Web sites detailing a variety of was to snuff yourself. You have come to the right place for support. Mike http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/2887/
Response:
I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
Just what is bothering you? There about a million people in the U,S, with holes in their bellys. Most of us live as productive members of society. What makes you think you can’t? In this newsgroup you can get help and guidance - we’ve been there and done it; even been through the stage you appear to be experiencing now.
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On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:57:30 -0500, "world3" <wor…@flash.net
wrote: Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
********* Sounds like you were a loser from the start. An ostomy it not the end of your life, it’s a new begining, deal with it like we all do. DS.
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Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
Response:
Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
Quiter!!!!!!! Earl (U)
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Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
Yes I know a Great way to go!! Go to your Doctors and tell him you are suicidal over the ostomy!! I am sure he will get you the help you need! Paula
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Quiter!!!!!!! Earl (U)
Earl, I think some of have been at this point and start to lose patience. It is hard to believe that it gets better until it does. Trust me World3, it always does get better, hang in there!! Paula
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Earl, check your E-mail for a message from me. feel free to E-Mail me. Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Earl wrote in message …
Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!! Quiter!!!!!!! Earl (U)
Response:
World3, can I ask if your colostomy is recent, or have you had it a long time? I’ve had so many surgeries I’m afraid to ask what more can happen. Seems like a lot of ostomates got better after getting a bag so they have a quality of life some of the rest of us don’t have. Can you write back about it? Post a message again or email me, or anyone on the list? Maybe someone some where knows about your exact situation from their own experience. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -world3 wrote in message <708fha$2d…@excalibur.flash.net
… Anyone know of a good way to go? I have a colostomy that I can’t deal with! Any suggestions? I am serious—I do not want to live like this!!!!
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Categories: Colitis Flare | 
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They all smoke less though….. No smoking in my house anymore. However, over the course of this time, we have all experienced the same side effect – bleeding gums. One friend even experiences nose bleeds! I could understand if this was happening during the first few weeks, but in some cases it’s been going on for periods of many months or years. 
) Eileen