Question:

With that theory why doesn’t this bacteria stay away after being starved, or better yet……die….eh ?

Oh…did I leave that part out?  Actually, many people, after doing the diet for 1-2 years, can go back to eating everything!!! erin

Response:

With that theory why doesn’t this bacteria stay away after being starved, or better yet……die….eh ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – More on toxins…this might get long…sorry I found a fantastic book called BREAKING THE VICIOUS CYCLE. It is by Elaine Gottschall. It was written for people with colitis and crohn’s, but I FIRMLY believe that chronic inflammatory diseases are all related, so I bought the book. The book is very popular and has helped many people turn around their diseases completely.  It also says that many people have noticed that on the diet their psoriasis and arthritis go away too… It is called the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. It relates to us flakes because many here have noticed that cutting out carbs puts us in remission. Her book says it’s "specific" carbs…disaccharides and polysaccharides.  However, monosaccharides like fructose and glucose (fruit and honey) are fine. The theory is that the bacteria in our guts is out of whack, for lack of a better phrase.The bad bacteria are in too large numbers. They feed on complex sugars, while simple sugars can be digested and absorbed quickly by us. By avoiding complex sugars (breads, cereals, rice, potatoes, corn, lactose and table sugar) we STARVE the bacteria, thus thier waste products or TOXINS are not in our systems anymore causing havoc. This also relates to those of us who have experienced relief of ps or arthritis by taking antibiotics. I thought I’d put that out there.  I am on the diet now. Happy to eat honey and fruit unlike on Atkin’s diet. Yipee!  Her book had bread-like recipes all made with ground nuts as a base instead of flour.  I’ll let you all know how it goes…if I can stick on it.  I tend to be able to stick to things when I’m at my rope’s end…which i am now in 105 degree weather… Don’t start a friggin’ debate please. It wears everyone here down. I’m just putting it out there for those interested. erin

Response:

By avoiding complex sugars (breads, cereals, rice, potatoes, corn, lactose and table sugar) we STARVE the bacteria, thus thier waste products or TOXINS are not in our systems anymore causing havoc.

Just wanted to say that at least this is a firmer definition of "toxins" than most that I’ve heard (although I’m pretty sure that many bacterial waste products, methane for example, leave the gut without causing problems – it could simply be the bacteria themselves which cause an inflammatory response). – Dave W.

Response:

With that theory why doesn’t this bacteria stay away after being starved, or better yet……die….eh ?

Two reasons that I can think of.  One is that once *most* of the bacteria die of starvation, the small amount of food which does show up (I think it’s impossible to eliminate *all* complex carbs) will easily feed the remainder – and if you go back to ‘normal’ eating habits, they’ll multiply back to previous populations very quickly.  Second, eating, drinking, breathing, etc. constantly add new bacteria to our guts from the outside world.  Unless you’re John Travolta, you can’t get away from the little buggers. – Dave W.

Response:

I have done quite a bit of research on the whole "toxins" issue.  I was also quite skeptical a couple of years ago when I was given a book called "Psoriasis can be cured".  This book is all about how a toxic liver is the cause of Psoriasis.  I have numerous issues that I deal with on top of the Psoriasis.  I have Asthma, Arthritis and digestive issues.  I had noticed that all of my problems fluctuated in their intensity in sync with one another.  This book that I read was the first thing that ever made sense to me in describing why and how all of these problems could be related.  When I tell a doctor that I think my asthma is related to my arthritis they scoff.  Why not, in the doctor’s specialized little world asthma is a lung disease and psoriasis is a skin disease.  They couldn’t possibly be related.

Sounds like the doctors you’ve talked to aren’t thinking. Psoriasis, asthma, and arthritis are all inflammatory diseases.  Do something which suppresses the inflammatory response systemically (inject steroids, for example), and the symptoms of all of them will lessen.  The inflammation of the skin, lungs and joints may all be *caused* by different things, though, so while there may be commonality in the symptoms, there isn’t necessarily a common cause. When I did the things that this book told me to do my psoriasis cleared 100%.  My asthma cleared 100% and my arthritis also totally cleared.  As soon as I started to deviate from the diet given to me, however, my psoriasis came back.  The diet was too hard for me to keep up but I do know that while I was faithful to it, I was clear.  By stickin as much as I can to this diet I am still able to keep my arthritis and asthma under control.  No conventional treatment has ever been able to give me as much control over my problems.

While I think it’s great that you’ve found quite a bit of relief, the title of the book is obviously misleading. Your psoriasis wasn’t cured, just knocked into remission for a while. Doctors are there to treat symptoms, not causes.

Antibiotics treat the cause of some diseases very well. The symptoms of Psoriasis are the patches that we are all too familiar with. I don’t think that the cause has anything to do with skin.  This is why conventional medecine will NEVER cure Psoriasis.  Doctors are too specialized.  A dermatologist is put in charge of treating Psoriais becuase it has been classified as a skin disease due to the nature of the symptoms.  Let’s suppose that the cuase of Psoriasis is internal. Who the hell in the conventional medical world is ever going to find the cure?

The geneticists and immunologists, but mostly the researchers who don’t treat disease, but just look for answers. Dermatologists are the only ones in the medical world that give a rat’s ass about Psoriasis and they know absolutely nothing about the internal structures of the body and how they affect the rest of the body both on the exterior and interior.

Not true at all.  Dermatologists go to med school just like every other MD.  Specialization into dermatology only happens late in school.  You’ve still got to know anatomy, and how drugs do their things internally, and all sorts of other things in order to graduate and keep your license. The last time I went to see a Dermatologist he told me that the conventional medical world knows that there is a link between the liver and Psoriasis.  I almost wet my pants in excitement when we said this.  I thought, at last a Doctor with a brain of his own. Then he said that is has been proven that when someone drinks alcohol, the alcohol damages the liver which in turn casues the Psoriasis to get worse.  Again, it made me very excited to hear this from a Doctor.  My hopes and dreams for this Doctor were squashed when he followed up with "but I don’t think toxins have anything to do with it".  What did he think alcohol was.  Why the hell do they call it intoxicated.

Well, they don’t call it intoxicated because alcohol damages your liver.  And this dermatologist sounds as misinformed as the other doctors who told you there was no link whatsoever.  We know that alcohol damages the brain, too, but how many people think that psoriasis is caused by brain damage?  The liver, for some reason, seems to be the "alternative organ of choice" which, when damaged, gets blamed for causing every problem known to man.  Perhaps it’s because so few people really *understand* the liver, or perhaps it’s because it tastes bad, and just has a bad reputation in general. There are thousands of substances that we ingest every day that affect the liver in the same manner as alcohol does.

And the lungs, and the heart, and the eyes, and every other organ you can think of.  Why does the liver get the blame? The liver does hundreds of processed and believe me a simple "liver test" doesnt’ test for everything that the liver has to do.

Each and every cell in the body is doing many, many things all the time, all of which are affectable by what we breathe and eat.  What makes the liver cells so different? I asked this Doctor is he knows of studies that related toxins other than alcohol to Psoriasis and he didn’t.  There was no need since the thought was ridiculous.  I have given up on dermatologists.

Sounds like the doctors you’ve seen have all been subpar. I control my psoriasis much better on my own than conventional treatments ever have for me.  I’m not going to tell people what I do because it’s not as simple as that.  Us psoriatics need to do our own research.  Screw the Doctor’s who don’t know a thing about our disease.  Ignore all conventional medecine and start from scratch.

We psoriatics also need to stick together.  You’ve just suggested that we all go reinvent the wheel on our own.  Wouldn’t sharing your regimen help more? I’m not saying to go believing in any cure out there or anything labelled alternative.  We all know that there are lots of scams out there but conventional dermatology is one of those scams.  Those doctors make a forune off of us and they have never cured one of us.

The doctors should never said they could, either (if you know of one who did, report the bastard). If Psoriasis was a skin disease a dermatologist would have cured it by now.  I have just finished reading Pagano’s book.  I know a great many of you think this man is a quack. I cannot speak for the book yet as I have not tried the treatment yet but I’ll tell you, what I have read makes more sense than anything I have ever seen before.  Dermatologists make no sense.

I am very interested by "makes sense."  If you mean "is internally consistent," then I’d have to agree that Pagano’s theory makes sense.  The "Four Humors" theory of medicine from a few hundred years ago made sense, too.  The current medical theory of psoriasis makes sense, as well, even if there are a few places where it says "we don’t know what happens here." The problem I have with Pagano and others it that while they seem to be internally true to their ideas, they require belief in certain assumptions which don’t in and of themselves, make sense. Toxic liver?  You said yourself that we’re all exposed to many things everyday which are toxic.  Why should only a few of us have psoriasis?  The medical theories tell us why, without having to resort to vague and difficult-to-define terms like "toxins," and don’t rely on unproven theories like liver damage. The idea of giving someone a drug to decrease the activity of the immune system becuase it is so overactive is insane.  The immune system is over active because something is in the body that it is fighting.  By shutting it down we are just stopping our defenses from fighting things that need to be fought.  It boggles my mind why these Doctors don’t just spend some time to try and find out what it is excatly the immune system is trying to fight.

Psoriatics’ immune systems are not necessarily overactive *except* at the site of a plaque, and even then, the immune response is not extreme from its own "point-of-view".  Psoriatic skin presents antigens to the immune system which it interprets as "there’s a wound here which needs to be fixed."  So the immune cells start the process of inflammation and fast skin production which forms the plaques, and doesn’t turns it off again, which makes them look the way they do.  In other words, the really *isn’t* anything which needs to be fought, but the immune system "thinks" there is. The researchers have already spent a lot of time finding this stuff out, and they discover more all the time. And they shouldn’t be looking for the same thing in all of us.  It could be a different substance or combination of substances in each one of us.

Perhaps, but the researchers are looking for the same *types* of things in all of us. – Dave W.

Response:

Doctors are there to treat symptoms, not causes. The symptoms of Psoriasis are the patches that we are all too familiar with. I don’t think that the cause has anything to do with skin.

When a disease is chronic and incurable what are doctors supposed to do but treat the symptoms? They don’t generally do research too. That is a full time commitment and speciality. Let’s suppose that the cuase of Psoriasis is internal. Who the hell in the conventional medical world is ever going to find the cure?  

Geneticists. Of course the cause is internal. If it were external, then the cause would be related to something outside the body, right? We would be talking about air pollution or chemicals in cleaners or something like that, not medicines, diets, etc. Dermatologists are the only ones in the medical world that give a rat’s ass about Psoriasis

My experience is that Rheumatologists know alot about it as well. I have also seen specialists in internal medicines and gastroentrology (who are also liver specialists by the way)  that have an excellent understanding of our whacked out immune systems. If Psoriasis was a skin disease a dermatologist would have cured it by now. I have just finishe

You are contradicting yourself here. You said they don’t want to cure it because they make too much money off of it, but then you say if it were a skin disease they would have cured it. You’re right. It isn’t a skin disease. It is an autoimmune disease that manifests itself with skin lesions, among other things. completely frustrated with our medical system

I know we all get frustrated with it sometimes. We are helpless for the most part to fight this disease so we blame the medical establishment because it is our nature to always look for blame when a problem seems impossible to solve (look at all the blaming that went on after the Columbine High School shootings for example.)  Americans, especially American males are problem solvers. This is their nature. When a problem cannot be solved, it is so frustrating and then the need to find blame takes over. Oh well, a dream is just a dream

No, a dream of a cure is something to hold onto. Try not to lose sight of all the diseases that have been cured in this century alone and keep dreaming of a cure, because one is just around the corner. A little patience friends. They will know how to stop that overactive immune system one day soon.

Response:

By the way, if things "leak" into our bodies or make our livers toxic, are there any tests, blood or biopsy perhaps to prove this?

if your intestines were leaking into your body, "toxic liver" would be the least of your troubles…

Response:

Glenn I think the reason that the books that are writen for us makes sense is because they are often written by people with limited medical background for customers with limited medical background. If I can understand it, it’s probably to darn simple to really be a cure. The books I have read are pretty simple: Lower your carbs and lower you insulin productions, Drink water and flush toxins, Take a vitamin and boost you imune system, Take an herb and purify your blood, reduce stress. When I read the articles from researchers, the T-cells etc., my eyes cross and I’m at a loss. I just really think that the books that are put out for us to read are not cures but simply ways to control psoriasis. We use diet to help control this, and sometimes it does, sometimes creams and herbs and oils help. Almost had it licked 2 weeks ago and then the school excitment started and she flared again. Shes not even nervous, she loves school,  just excited. Would our solution be, to feel no emotion? Anyway, My dream is: some scientific mental giant will have a beautiful little girl with psoriasis and he will have the brains and a motive to find the cure for her. arlene

Response:

I have done quite a bit of research on the whole "toxins" issue.  I was also quite skeptical a couple of years ago when I was given a book called "Psoriasis can be cured".  This book is all about how a toxic liver is the cause of Psoriasis.  I have numerous issues that I deal with on top of the Psoriasis.  I have Asthma, Arthritis and digestive issues.  I had noticed that all of my problems fluctuated in their intensity in sync with one another.  This book that I read was the first thing that ever made sense to me in describing why and how all of these problems could be related.  When I tell a doctor that I think my asthma is related to my arthritis they scoff.  Why not, in the doctor’s specialized little world asthma is a lung disease and psoriasis is a skin disease.  They couldn’t possibly be related.  When I did the things that this book told me to do my psoriasis cleared 100%.  My asthma cleared 100% and my arthritis also totally cleared.  As soon as I started to deviate from the diet given to me, however, my psoriasis came back.  The diet was too hard for me to keep up but I do know that while I was faithful to it, I was clear.  By stickin as much as I can to this diet I am still able to keep my arthritis and asthma under control.  No conventional treatment has ever been able to give me as much control over my problems.  Doctors are there to treat symptoms, not causes. The symptoms of Psoriasis are the patches that we are all too familiar with.  I don’t think that the cause has anything to do with skin. This is why conventional medecine will NEVER cure Psoriasis.  Doctors are too specialized.  A dermatologist is put in charge of treating Psoriais becuase it has been classified as a skin disease due to the nature of the symptoms.  Let’s suppose that the cuase of Psoriasis is internal. Who the hell in the conventional medical world is ever going to find the cure?  Dermatologists are the only ones in the medical world that give a rat’s ass about Psoriasis and they know absolutely nothing about the internal structures of the body and how they affect the rest of the body both on the exterior and interior.  The last time I went to see a Dermatologist he told me that the conventional medical world knows that there is a link between the liver and Psoriasis.  I almost wet my pants in excitement when we said this.  I thought, at last a Doctor with a brain of his own. Then he said that is has been proven that when someone drinks alcohol, the alcohol damages the liver which in turn casues the Psoriasis to get worse.  Again, it made me very excited to hear this from a Doctor.  My hopes and dreams for this Doctor were squashed when he followed up with "but I don’t think toxins have anything to do with it".  What did he think alcohol was.  Why the hell do they call it intoxicated.  There are thousands of substances that we ingest every day that affect the liver in the same manner as alcohol does.  The liver does hundreds of processed and believe me a simple "liver test" doesnt’ test for everything that the liver has to do.  I asked this Doctor is he knows of studies that related toxins other than alcohol to Psoriasis and he didn’t.  There was no need since the thought was ridiculous.  I have given up on dermatologists.  I control my psoriasis much better on my own than conventional treatments ever have for me.  I’m not going to tell people what I do because it’s not as simple as that.  Us psoriatics need to do our own research.  Screw the Doctor’s who don’t know a thing about our disease.  Ignore all conventional medecine and start from scratch.  I’m not saying to go believing in any cure out there or anything labelled alternative.  We all know that there are lots of scams out there but conventional dermatology is one of those scams.  Those doctors make a forune off of us and they have never cured one of us.  If Psoriasis was a skin disease a dermatologist would have cured it by now.  I have just finished reading Pagano’s book.  I know a great many of you think this man is a quack. I cannot speak for the book yet as I have not tried the treatment yet but I’ll tell you, what I have read makes more sense than anything I have ever seen before.  Dermatologists make no sense.  The idea of giving someone a drug to decrease the activity of the immune system becuase it is so overactive is insane.  The immune system is over active because something is in the body that it is fighting.  By shutting it down we are just stopping our defenses from fighting things that need to be fought.  It boggles my mind why these Doctors don’t just spend some time to try and find out what it is excatly the immune system is trying to fight.  And they shouldn’t be looking for the same thing in all of us.  It could be a different substance or combination of substances in each one of us.  Oh well, a dream is just a dream and I’m rambling so good night. completely frustrated with our medical system Glenn Jamison   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t want to say that there is no such a thing as "toxins in the blood". After all, I’m just a simple country boy.  Maybe there are things that can be catagorized as "toxins in the blood."  But when some treatment or ‘cure’ is being promoted because of its effect on "toxins in the blood," or when psoriasis is being said to be caused by "toxins in the blood" with no scientific evidence being provided then I am, to put it euphemistically. "a little sceptical."  Somebody’s got to come up with a better explanation than "toxins in the blood" to make me a believer. Now if somebody could please tell me where I could get some of that Purple Stuff…. Rick G (in CA) (To reply remove .NO.Spam from my e-mail address) Whenever I hear the phrase "toxins in the blood" I grab ahold of my wallet!! I agree, though I continue to try to understand this theory, it has no basis in real anatomy, especially the toxic liver stuff. No disrespect to Erin who tried to explain it to me, but I just don’t think there is any such thing. By the way, if things "leak" into our bodies or make our livers toxic, are there any tests, blood or biopsy perhaps to prove this? If not, why not? Ava I think the word you guys are looking for is "antigenic". Several chemicals, microbes and yes food can be antigenic to people. An antigen in other words elicits an immune response leading to inflammation. Now this could be caused by an antibody mediated or a cell mediated immune response. Either way the end result would be an inflammatory reaction. There have been a few papers published in the recent past about bacterial superantigens being involved in T cell mediated immune responses in P. Now, how and when this knowledge can be put to therapeutic use is unclear. However it is pretty well known that non-antigenic substances released as a result of antigen presence can "enhance" the inflammation. In this sense "IF" the word toxin is meant to mean enhancer of an iflammatory reaction then maybe there is some substance to the word. However as to what these toxins are as far as P goes,your guess is as good as mine. Meanwhile several studies in an area called psyconeuroimmunology validate the benificial effects of physical…outdoor (for P) exercise in fighting depression and this in turn has been shown to help P patients a lot. Incidently several hospitals have PNI programs and use positive thinking psychology in cancer treatment…the results are great. For those of you in the know simply type psyconeuroimmunology or even neuroimmunology in Medline and see what you get…pretty cool. Now lets all get out into the shining sun and do it–)). Vishy Rick G (in CA) (To reply remove .NO.Spam from my e-mail address)

Response:

 8< snip 8 The problem that some of us have with the word ‘toxins’, also, is that it’s far too vague to have any real meaning.  8< snip .8 Anyway, I think the word ‘toxin’ does little but create confusion and fear.

Whenever I hear the phrase "toxins in the blood" I grab ahold of my wallet!! Rick G (in CA) (To reply remove .NO.Spam from my e-mail address)

Response:

Well, I understand it better now but are we saying that the psoriasis is more like a rash or an allergic reaction or does this theory accept that the plaques are cells that are experiencing abnormal accelerated growth and the immune system’s repsonse is a reaction to the toxins? Thanks Erin. Ava

Hell if I know…  ;-)  No, but really…I think there is an immune response reaction to something foreign in the system. (Don’t attack me anyone…it’s just my thoughts on the matter.)  I think this is the case with lupus, colitis, crohn’s and many other chronic inflammatory conditions.   Maybe one day I’ll know for sure through rigid experimentation. erin

Response:

Whenever I hear the phrase "toxins in the blood" I grab ahold of my wallet!!

I wish I had thought of this.  It’s a great line! – Dave W.

Response:

Whenever I hear the phrase "toxins in the blood" I grab ahold of my wallet!!

I agree, though I continue to try to understand this theory, it has no basis in real anatomy, especially the toxic liver stuff. No disrespect to Erin who tried to explain it to me, but I just don’t think there is any such thing. By the way, if things "leak" into our bodies or make our livers toxic, are there any tests, blood or biopsy perhaps to prove this? If not, why not? Ava

Response:

Whenever I hear the phrase "toxins in the blood" I grab ahold of my wallet!! I agree, though I continue to try to understand this theory, it has no basis in real anatomy, especially the toxic liver stuff. No disrespect to Erin who tried to explain it to me, but I just don’t think there is any such thing. By the way, if things "leak" into our bodies or make our livers toxic, are there any tests, blood or biopsy perhaps to prove this? If not, why not? Ava

I think the word you guys are looking for is "antigenic". Several chemicals, microbes and yes food can be antigenic to people. An antigen in other words elicits an immune response leading to inflammation. Now this could be caused by an antibody mediated or a cell mediated immune response. Either way the end result would be an inflammatory reaction. There have been a few papers published in the recent past about bacterial superantigens being involved in T cell mediated immune responses in P. Now, how and when this knowledge can be put to therapeutic use is unclear. However it is pretty well known that non-antigenic substances released as a result of antigen presence can "enhance" the inflammation. In this sense "IF" the word toxin is meant to mean enhancer of an iflammatory reaction then maybe there is some substance to the word. However as to what these toxins are as far as P goes,your guess is as good as mine. Meanwhile several studies in an area called psyconeuroimmunology validate the benificial effects of physical…outdoor (for P) exercise in fighting depression and this in turn has been shown to help P patients a lot. Incidently several hospitals have PNI programs and use positive thinking psychology in cancer treatment…the results are great. For those of you in the know simply type psyconeuroimmunology or even neuroimmunology in Medline and see what you get…pretty cool. Now lets all get out into the shining sun and do it–)). Vishy

Response:

I don’t want to say that there is no such a thing as "toxins in the blood". After all, I’m just a simple country boy.  Maybe there are things that can be catagorized as "toxins in the blood."  But when some treatment or ‘cure’ is being promoted because of its effect on "toxins in the blood," or when psoriasis is being said to be caused by "toxins in the blood" with no scientific evidence being provided then I am, to put it euphemistically. "a little sceptical."  Somebody’s got to come up with a better explanation than "toxins in the blood" to make me a believer. Now if somebody could please tell me where I could get some of that Purple Stuff…. Rick G (in CA) (To reply remove .NO.Spam from my e-mail address) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Whenever I hear the phrase "toxins in the blood" I grab ahold of my wallet!! I agree, though I continue to try to understand this theory, it has no basis in real anatomy, especially the toxic liver stuff. No disrespect to Erin who tried to explain it to me, but I just don’t think there is any such thing. By the way, if things "leak" into our bodies or make our livers toxic, are there any tests, blood or biopsy perhaps to prove this? If not, why not? Ava I think the word you guys are looking for is "antigenic". Several chemicals, microbes and yes food can be antigenic to people. An antigen in other words elicits an immune response leading to inflammation. Now this could be caused by an antibody mediated or a cell mediated immune response. Either way the end result would be an inflammatory reaction. There have been a few papers published in the recent past about bacterial superantigens being involved in T cell mediated immune responses in P. Now, how and when this knowledge can be put to therapeutic use is unclear. However it is pretty well known that non-antigenic substances released as a result of antigen presence can "enhance" the inflammation. In this sense "IF" the word toxin is meant to mean enhancer of an iflammatory reaction then maybe there is some substance to the word. However as to what these toxins are as far as P goes,your guess is as good as mine. Meanwhile several studies in an area called psyconeuroimmunology validate the benificial effects of physical…outdoor (for P) exercise in fighting depression and this in turn has been shown to help P patients a lot. Incidently several hospitals have PNI programs and use positive thinking psychology in cancer treatment…the results are great. For those of you in the know simply type psyconeuroimmunology or even neuroimmunology in Medline and see what you get…pretty cool. Now lets all get out into the shining sun and do it–)). Vishy

Rick G (in CA) (To reply remove .NO.Spam from my e-mail address)

Response:

I think the word you guys are looking for is "antigenic".

Good call! There have been a few papers published in the recent past about bacterial superantigens being involved in T cell mediated immune responses in P. Now, how and when this knowledge can be put to therapeutic use is unclear.

Actually, a couple of months ago, we were discussing a treatment which I think is in testing in Europe in which ‘they’ take a sample of your blood, identify the antibodies and/or immune ‘memory’ cells which are causing your psoriasis, and then inject you with antigens to *those* molecules/cells.  The theory goes that your immune system will then turn on itself, and kill those bits that are causing the psoriasis symptoms.  Of course, since your body will begin to re-manufacture those parts almost immediately, this is still not a cure (I guess it depends on how long those new antigens stick around).  I’m not sure what to think about this.  It sounds terribly expensive, and terribly uncertain.  Time will tell, as far as I know, this therapy is in its infancy. – Dave W.

Response:

Ava, I believe was inquiring about what a toxin is in the body as it relates to psoriasis (or other inflammatory conditions.) A toxin is anything that doesn’t belong in the body and creates a distress.  A good example of this would be how gluten is a "toxin" for people with celeac’s disease.  If they eat a crouton in a salad by accident, they will exhibit symptoms such a diarrhea or bleeding.  They even get a skin rash if they eat too much gluten. The gluten cannot be digested, causes intestinal bleeding and distress, thus, gluten as a toxin seeps out of the intestinal wall causing all sorts of problems.  The same can be true for a person with Chron’s disease eating whey. This relates to psoriasis because, although not proved, many (like Pagano) theorize that our systems are experiening distress based on something in the diet casuing thinning of the intestinal walls, thus seeping out as a toxin. Hope this clarifies things. erin  

Response:

Hope this clarifies things.

Well, I understand it better now but are we saying that the psoriasis is more like a rash or an allergic reaction or does this theory accept that the plaques are cells that are experiencing abnormal accelerated growth and the immune system’s repsonse is a reaction to the toxins? Thanks Erin. Ava

Response:

This relates to psoriasis because, although not proved, many (like Pagano) theorize that our systems are experiening distress based on something in the diet casuing thinning of the intestinal walls, thus seeping out as a toxin.

The problems with gluten and whey and other such substances can occur without the need for "thin" intestinal walls.  People with supposedly perfectly intact intestines will have gluten cross through the instestinal walls and enter the bloodstream.  There is no problem so far.  Once in the bloodstream, however, certain people’s immune systems are ‘programmed’ to react to the gluten as a foreign substance instead of as food (in which case, the foreign matter is ignored and used by the rest of the body’s systems).  How this reaction expresses itself in terms of symptoms is based on, once again, the immune system. It is possible, for example, that, like in many psoriatic cases of strep, the immune system ’sees’ gluten (or other foodstuffs) in the same way as it ’sees’ certain proteins in the skin.  In such a case, it would ‘think’ that the skin is being invaded by the same stuff that came in through the intestines, and cause inflammation and rapid skin growth in an attempt to heal the ‘wound’.  Again, this does not require the intestinal walls to be any thinner than those of ‘normal’ people. Also, from what I recall of the information that Steve has given us, some people actually make proteins which *help* gluten move through the intestinal walls more easily.  Once again, this does not require a rather vague "intestinal permiability", but rests on a distinct and provable biological basis. The problem that some of us have with the word ‘toxins’, also, is that it’s far too vague to have any real meaning.  Some people use it to mean nothing but man-made, artificial chemicals – pollution. Others use it in the sense that you did, to mean anything that the body sees as foreign.  Edgar Cayce, upon whose ‘readings’ Pagano bases his diet, uses the word ‘poisons’, which has the definite implication that it doesn’t matter how the body views the substance, it’ll kill you (arsenic, for example, does not create an immune response – at least at first – it simply kills cells).  My dictionary claims that ‘toxins’ refers solely to biologically-created poisons, like cobra venom or botulism toxin. Anyway, I think the word ‘toxin’ does little but create confusion and fear.  We hear from so many different alternative folks about how it’s necessary to ‘detoxify’ the blood or the liver or the body in general, yet they don’t often get specific about just what these ‘toxins’ are, or even how we’re supposed to know that we’ve got toxic body parts. It’s quite obvious that psoriasis is not the only symptom of having ‘toxins’ in our bodies, which makes these ‘toxins’ quite an easy-to- use "cause" for almost any physical problem, and once again rips any solid meaning from the word. – Dave W.

Response:

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