Question:

Hey, thank you all very much for your ideas! I want to apologize for sounding a bit angry in a previous post, but I was just afraid that my original post’s validity had been put into question…like it was ‘tainted’.  And I’m sure you can tell I am quite frustrated in my efforts to get healthy.   I did go to THE supposed expert on Fibromyalgia 4 years ago (I live in Boston, MA where we have a lot of medical facilities) and he very quickly decided that I didn’t have it.  I did find it interesting, however, when some of you mentioned a link between sleep disturbance and the symptoms of Fibromyalgia.   The reason I’ve shown up at this newsgroup, I’ll remind you, is because of my knowledge about a condition of mine, which I am extremely embarrassed about, Trichotolomania – the hair pulling compulsion. As I said before, I feel I have good control over it, but I wonder if these other ‘mystery’ symptoms of mine could be related. Some more details on my symptoms:  I often decribe this ‘all-over- body-crappy’ feeling as being kind of a generalized inflammation. I get a slight sore throat, bloodshot eyes, crackling joints, mental fogginess, pale face, and worst of all, a bloated stomach (or intestines).  These symptoms show up about 3 or 4 days a week, but almost every day I have a tough time getting out of bed due to fatigue.  When I don’t have the symptoms, I feel great. I am the captain of my volleyball team!   So, I am in a way swallowing my pride for now, by considering the possiblilty that my MIND is causing the symptoms somehow, and that is why I am here at this newsgroup.  So, if anybody has anymore ideas, that would be great! Again, thanks to all of you (even you, JMC) for taking the time to read thru my postings.  I know that I do not have ‘classic’ OCD symptoms, but think there may be an interesting connection here. Will

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Will wrote:

Hey, thank you all very much for your ideas! I want to apologize for sounding a bit angry in a previous post, but I was just afraid that my original post’s validity had been put into question…like it was ‘tainted’.  And I’m sure you can tell I am quite frustrated in my efforts to get healthy. I did go to THE supposed expert on Fibromyalgia 4 years ago (I live in Boston, MA where we have a lot of medical facilities) and he very quickly decided that I didn’t have it.  I did find it interesting, however, when some of you mentioned a link between sleep disturbance and the symptoms of Fibromyalgia. The reason I’ve shown up at this newsgroup, I’ll remind you, is because of my knowledge about a condition of mine, which I am extremely embarrassed about, Trichotolomania – the hair pulling compulsion. As I said before, I feel I have good control over it, but I wonder if these other ‘mystery’ symptoms of mine could be related. Some more details on my symptoms:  I often decribe this ‘all-over- body-crappy’ feeling as being kind of a generalized inflammation. I get a slight sore throat, bloodshot eyes, crackling joints, mental fogginess, pale face, and worst of all, a bloated stomach (or intestines).  These symptoms show up about 3 or 4 days a week, but almost every day I have a tough time getting out of bed due to fatigue.  When I don’t have the symptoms, I feel great. I am the captain of my volleyball team! So, I am in a way swallowing my pride for now, by considering the possiblilty that my MIND is causing the symptoms somehow, and that is why I am here at this newsgroup.  So, if anybody has anymore ideas, that would be great! Again, thanks to all of you (even you, JMC) for taking the time to read thru my postings.  I know that I do not have ‘classic’ OCD symptoms, but think there may be an interesting connection here. Will

As before I can not offer a diagnosis by newsgroup or email. Some suggestion has been made that you might have fibromyalgia. In spite of a post that says many other symptoms can occur in fibromyalgia (and they no doubt can) the diagnosis of that condition is made by standard criteria from the rumatatology specalists. The diagnosis is made baised on specific tender points distributed over the body. Other symptoms such as dry mouth, GI disturbance, parathesias, etc do not contribute to the diagnosis. Another poorly understood condition Chronic Fatigue may include many of these same type of symptoms. New research suggests this disorder may be related to failure to regulate blood preasure. Trichotillomania is usually characterized by pulling hair in a "compulsive" fassion. It often leads to bald spots. There is a self soothing aspect to this act. The hair is often eaten or played with on the lips. It may be treated with behavior therapy or the same medications used to treat OCD. It is however difficult to treat effectivly. If you have been to several doctors to be evaluated for your collection of symptoms and been told they could find nothing wrong with you it is indeed possible this represents a psychiatric disorder. Please understand I did not say it did or didnt I say it is possible. The disorders that come to mind given what you describe are somatization disorder and hypocondrisis. I am not trying to be insulting simply suggesting these ideas be added to the list of things to be considered. Again many of the experts in the field of OCD believe some of these disorders may represent a variation or different form of OCD. They also may respond to the same treatments used for OCD. Since you live in or near Boston perhaps you would benifit from consulting an expert in these disorders. As you may know Mass General/ Harvard have some of the worlds leading experts on OCD and related conditions. This includes Dr M. Jenike an collegues, One of them Dr Richard O’Sullivan is an expert on Trichotillomania. Also Dr Gail Steketee another expert on OCD is at Boston U. Good luck in finding out what is going on. — Jim Claiborn Ph.D. ABPP If I survive this life without dying I’ll be supprised. Mulla Nasrudin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

The person who posted about physical symptoms to whom I suggested one possible explanation might be hypocondriasis did seem to describe stomach complaints, bloating etc if I remember correctly. These are not usually the primary commplaints seen in fibromyalgia. The diagnostic criteria for fibromyalgia are essentially excessive tenderness at a number of identified points on the body. There is some theory regarding the relationship to sleep. Deprivation of one type of sleep (delta or slow wave sleep) seems to produce symptoms similar to fibromyalgia and sleep studies of people with fibromyalgia show some abnormal findings such as so called alpha delta sleep. Tricyclic antidepressants may improve sleep and are often helpful in chronic pain so they may be useful in treating fibromyalgia. The other thing that seems helpful is aerobic exercise. This usually needs to be started very gradually.

Jim, I qoute from "Fibromyalgia: A Comprehensive Guide" byMiryam Ehrilich  Williamson. " More than half of the people with fibromyalgia suffer from irritable bowel  syndrome.  The most common symptom is crampy diarrhea that is often confused  with colitis or Chron’s disease. But IBS can also make itself known by causing  constipation, abdominal pain, abdominal gas, and nausea." Tammy As someone just posted I dont make diagnoses by newgroup or email. I do – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

offer some ideas baised on what people post. Hypocondriasis is not an insult it is a disorder just like OCD or panic disorder. As I have suggested it may be closely related to OCD perhaps more so then trichotillomania. Some experts in fact have gone so far as to say they believe it is really the same disorder as OCD. The obsessions are of being ill, the equivilant of the compulsions is getting medical checkups. Finally in my own defense I never claimed to know everything. I do claim to have a reasonable amount of current information on OCD and related conditions. I post here as I see it as a public service to share my information. — Jim Claiborn Ph.D. ABPP If I survive this life without dying I’ll be supprised. Mulla Nasrudin

Response:

While I am not a medical professional, I believe I agree that there may be  something connected between obsessive thoughts during sleep and ill health.  A  lot of times I have trouble sleeping because of the same "unnecessary problem  solving" , and sometimes it continues while I am sleeping. Is it related to  OCD though, I really cannot answer that, but I do not believe that this is  hypochondriasis. As a matter of fact, I feel that many doctors do resort to  this conclusion simply because they do not want to admit that they cannot  figure out the problem. I had three doctors try to tell me a medical problem  was not real and it was not until the fourth doctor that I had actually found  someone who helped me and treated me, because he was actually willing to take  the time to find out what was wrong. Keep looking, and don’t give up hope!

Response:

Will, A person with hyponchondria will go to the doctor with a belief that they have  a terrible disease. For this example, let’s use cancer.  The doctor does every  test he can to rule out cancer.  The patient does not have it.  A normal  person will accept that OK, I don’t have it and be relieved. A hyponchondriac,  on the other hand, will be convinced the doctor is lying or doesn’t know what  he is doing.  He will not be satisfied that the tests are accurate.  He is  still convinced, regardless of everything, that he DOES have cancer. Do you  see yourself in a similar scenario?   I would also like to say that psychosomatic illnesses do have real symptoms.  It doesn’t mean the symptoms are "in your head" or imagined.  It only means  that your symptoms are caused by your mental condition.  Stress, depression,  etc.  These can all cause psychosomatic illnesses and symptoms. And they are  just as real as a broken arm.   I also agree, as I posted before, with the poster who suggests you have  fibromyalgia.  OCD doesn’t occur in your sleep.  If you have OCD, you are very  aware of it.  It’s not something that happens while you are sleeping.  You do  have some symptoms of fibromyalgia.  There is no clear cut test to diagnose  it, though.  It is a diagnosis made by ruling everything else OUT.  Get  another doctor.   Tammy

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tammy42096 wrote:

Will, A person with hyponchondria will go to the doctor with a belief that they have  a terrible disease. For this example, let’s use cancer.  The doctor does every  test he can to rule out cancer.  The patient does not have it.  A normal  person will accept that OK, I don’t have it and be relieved. A hyponchondriac,  on the other hand, will be convinced the doctor is lying or doesn’t know what  he is doing.  He will not be satisfied that the tests are accurate.  He is  still convinced, regardless of everything, that he DOES have cancer. Do you  see yourself in a similar scenario? I would also like to say that psychosomatic illnesses do have real symptoms.  It doesn’t mean the symptoms are "in your head" or imagined.  It only means  that your symptoms are caused by your mental condition.  Stress, depression,  etc.  These can all cause psychosomatic illnesses and symptoms. And they are  just as real as a broken arm. I also agree, as I posted before, with the poster who suggests you have  fibromyalgia.  OCD doesn’t occur in your sleep.  If you have OCD, you are very  aware of it.  It’s not something that happens while you are sleeping.  You do  have some symptoms of fibromyalgia.  There is no clear cut test to diagnose  it, though.  It is a diagnosis made by ruling everything else OUT.  Get  another doctor. Tammy

The person who posted about physical symptoms to whom I suggested one possible explanation might be hypocondriasis did seem to describe stomach complaints, bloating etc if I remember correctly. These are not usually the primary commplaints seen in fibromyalgia. The diagnostic criteria for fibromyalgia are essentially excessive tenderness at a number of identified points on the body. There is some theory regarding the relationship to sleep. Deprivation of one type of sleep (delta or slow wave sleep) seems to produce symptoms similar to fibromyalgia and sleep studies of people with fibromyalgia show some abnormal findings such as so called alpha delta sleep. Tricyclic antidepressants may improve sleep and are often helpful in chronic pain so they may be useful in treating fibromyalgia. The other thing that seems helpful is aerobic exercise. This usually needs to be started very gradually. As someone just posted I dont make diagnoses by newgroup or email. I do offer some ideas baised on what people post. Hypocondriasis is not an insult it is a disorder just like OCD or panic disorder. As I have suggested it may be closely related to OCD perhaps more so then trichotillomania. Some experts in fact have gone so far as to say they believe it is really the same disorder as OCD. The obsessions are of being ill, the equivilant of the compulsions is getting medical checkups. Finally in my own defense I never claimed to know everything. I do claim to have a reasonable amount of current information on OCD and related conditions. I post here as I see it as a public service to share my information. — Jim Claiborn Ph.D. ABPP If I survive this life without dying I’ll be supprised. Mulla Nasrudin

Response:

Will wrote:

<<five hours go by Hypochondriasis?  Ok, now that my temper has settled down, let me set the record straight: You are absolutely incorrect because – 1) I have been diagnosed by a reputable doctor in a Boston hospital as having Trichotolomania, a condition heavily tied to OCD.  Are you saying this is equivalent or related to hypochondriasis?!

Trichotillomania is a disorder many believe is closly related to OCD. It is not OCD itself. So is hypocondriasis. Although classified in a different section of the DSM-IV many people in the field believe that it is a form of OCD. Indeed it may respond to the same treatments as OCD. I am saying that you could have both.

2) My physical symptoms are for real, and have no cause/effect relationship with day to day events…i.e. a stressful day has no bearing on my health.

I never said your symptoms are not real. This is not what hypocondriasis means. There is not a clear relationship between somatic complaints and day to day stress in people who do have hypocondrasis.

4) Just because around 10 doctors have failed to help me, as YOU certainly would have, does not mean a whole lot.  Doctors in the present day have only touched the surface of understanding the human body and mind.  It shows great ignorance on the part of doctors to come to conclusions based on a lack of information.

I dont know if I would have helped you or not. I did not reach a conclusion I suggested a hypothesis.

Are you aware, Mr. Claiborn, of the potential damage you are capable of, by giving incorrect advice?  Have you ever thought about what it would be like to be TRULY suffering and have a person of supposed authority tell you that your sickness is psychosomatic or ‘all in your head’?  Let me tell you, you could make someone just give up on everything and put a gun to their head. But thats not going to be me.

I dont know what is wrong with your health. If by chance you do have hypocondriasis it is a very treatable condition. It is not an easy diagnosis to make. I did not say you had it I said you might have it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It probably slows the progress of the field of medicine when doctors cast off undiagnosable patients as hypochondriacs or depressives. Think of the impact you could have, if you just tried a little harder to help someone, and made some important new discovery.  Is it pure ’snobbery’ or just arrogance that keeps a doctor from saying to his patient, "I’m sorry, I just plain don’t know what is wrong with you." ? Alright, now that that is straightened out, I hope some more open-minded people will go back to my original post and see if they can come up with some useful suggestions. To be brief:  I am basically wondering if obsessive thoughts during sleep might be causing the ill health I wake up with almost every day. And if OCD (or a related illness) has been recognized as a sleep disorder.  An example of the obsessive thoughts are what I call ‘unnecessary problem solving (like work/school stuff)’.  Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, and good luck to all of you who are looking for help also. Will  (please post responses on newsgroup)

— Jim Claiborn Ph.D. ABPP If I survive this life without dying I’ll be supprised. Mulla Nasrudin

Response:

J Claiborn wrote:

The diagnosis of OCD requires obsessions or compulsions and distress or interference with your life. If you dont have these than what you have is not OCD. I dont mean to be insulting but if you have a lot of medical complaints that your doctors cant understand one posibility is you have Hypocondriasis. This is a psychiatric disorder which may be related to OCD and which involves being convinced you are ill inspite of no medical findings. It can be treated effectivly with the same approch that works for OCD.                 Jim Claiborn PhD ABDD J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

<<five hours go by

Hypochondriasis?  Ok, now that my temper has settled down, let me set the record straight: You are absolutely incorrect because – 1) I have been diagnosed by a reputable doctor in a Boston hospital as having Trichotolomania, a condition heavily tied to OCD.  Are you saying this is equivalent or related to hypochondriasis?!   2) My physical symptoms are for real, and have no cause/effect relationship with day to day events…i.e. a stressful day has no bearing on my health. I am in great physical health: when I am NOT sick. Conscious thoughts/behaviors have no effect on my health. I think positively – always. I would like to think my subjective viewpoint could be treated with respect. 3) I am a scientist by profession and training, and quite aware of what might be ‘real’ and what might not be, i.e. as in coming to conclusions via an empirical approach. 4) Just because around 10 doctors have failed to help me, as YOU certainly would have, does not mean a whole lot.  Doctors in the present day have only touched the surface of understanding the human body and mind.  It shows great ignorance on the part of doctors to come to conclusions based on a lack of information.   5) I could give many references of aquaintances that would dispel any belief that I have any inappropriate ambitions to improve my health.   Are you aware, Mr. Claiborn, of the potential damage you are capable of, by giving incorrect advice?  Have you ever thought about what it would be like to be TRULY suffering and have a person of supposed authority tell you that your sickness is psychosomatic or ‘all in your head’?  Let me tell you, you could make someone just give up on everything and put a gun to their head. But thats not going to be me.   It probably slows the progress of the field of medicine when doctors cast off undiagnosable patients as hypochondriacs or depressives. Think of the impact you could have, if you just tried a little harder to help someone, and made some important new discovery.  Is it pure ’snobbery’ or just arrogance that keeps a doctor from saying to his patient, "I’m sorry, I just plain don’t know what is wrong with you." ? Alright, now that that is straightened out, I hope some more open-minded people will go back to my original post and see if they can come up with some useful suggestions.   To be brief:  I am basically wondering if obsessive thoughts during sleep might be causing the ill health I wake up with almost every day. And if OCD (or a related illness) has been recognized as a sleep disorder.  An example of the obsessive thoughts are what I call ‘unnecessary problem solving (like work/school stuff)’.  Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, and good luck to all of you who are looking for help also. Will  (please post responses on newsgroup)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Will wrote:

Hi!  I just discovered this newsgroup yesterday.  Its great to know theres a place like this to pose some questions or maybe even give some advice.  I am a 31-y.o. male who leads what looks like a fairly ‘normal’ lifestyle.  But I am silently suffering…… Here’s my situation.  I know I am in the right place because I’ve had Trichotolomania all my life, and recognized it for atleast 7 years now. I feel I have it under control — it hasn’t effected me too badly.  But I have been suffering from some undiagnosed health problems for nearly a decade now and I wonder if there is a link. I thought I had CFS, but even that doesn’t seem quite right.  I wake up every morning feeling totally wiped out.  Almost every day I have symptoms of a bloated stomach/intestines and stiffness thru- out my body.  No doctor has been able to figure out what is going on (and theres been many a doctor).  I’ve explored many possible causes and treatments, all to no avail.  Recently, I was awakened in the middle of the night to find that I was having some disturbing dreams.  As I was laying there I also discovered that I ‘dwelling’ on work related stuff (and my work is NOT very stressful).  And, my stomach was feeling distressed. So, my questions for you all are these:  Is it possible for OCD to be affecting my overall health?  Could it be causing physical problems that are undetectable by general practitioners?  Can OCD be more restricted to the unconscious state of sleep, rather than the repetitive, daytime actions of typical sufferers? I really feel I am on to something here.  Please post any comments or questions.  Perhaps I didn’t give enough details. Thanks!  The right advice might change my whole life! Will Oh, by the way….I do not suffer from depression.  I may have, a long time ago, but overcame it with strong determination and hard work at maintaining my self-esteem.

The diagnosis of OCD requires obsessions or compulsions and distress or interference with your life. If you dont have these than what you have is not OCD. I dont mean to be insulting but if you have a lot of medical complaints that your doctors cant understand one posibility is you have Hypocondriasis. This is a psychiatric disorder which may be related to OCD and which involves being convinced you are ill inspite of no medical findings. It can be treated effectivly with the same approch that works for OCD. — Jim Claiborn PhD ABDD If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

Hi!  I just discovered this newsgroup yesterday.  Its great to know theres a place like this to pose some questions or maybe even give some advice.  I am a 31-y.o. male who leads what looks like a fairly ‘normal’ lifestyle.  But I am silently suffering…… Here’s my situation.  I know I am in the right place because I’ve had Trichotolomania all my life, and recognized it for atleast 7 years now. I feel I have it under control — it hasn’t effected me too badly.  But I have been suffering from some undiagnosed health problems for nearly a decade now and I wonder if there is a link. I thought I had CFS, but even that doesn’t seem quite right.  I wake up every morning feeling totally wiped out.  Almost every day I have symptoms of a bloated stomach/intestines and stiffness thru- out my body.  No doctor has been able to figure out what is going on (and theres been many a doctor).  I’ve explored many possible causes and treatments, all to no avail.  Recently, I was awakened in the middle of the night to find that I was having some disturbing dreams.  As I was laying there I also discovered that I ‘dwelling’ on work related stuff (and my work is NOT very stressful).  And, my stomach was feeling distressed. So, my questions for you all are these:  Is it possible for OCD to be affecting my overall health?  Could it be causing physical problems that are undetectable by general practitioners?  Can OCD be more restricted to the unconscious state of sleep, rather than the repetitive, daytime actions of typical sufferers?   I really feel I am on to something here.  Please post any comments or questions.  Perhaps I didn’t give enough details. Thanks!  The right advice might change my whole life! Will Oh, by the way….I do not suffer from depression.  I may have, a long time ago, but overcame it with strong determination and hard work at maintaining my self-esteem.

Response:

Related Posts

• Accutane
• Diet and Chrons disease
• Sulfasalzine Question
• cd flare-ups/obstructions
• newly diagnosed with Chron's
• Are you hungry
• IBS & Personality Styles
• OCD WORKING?
• Recently diagnosed with CD and very confused (Long story)
• arava?