Question:

Janice- Glad you found us.. but sorry you have the need.  Hang around and you’ll become a very well informed patient.  And that’s very important.  You need some control with this disease.  Hang in there and I hope the doctors get you on the road to recovery. Be well- Tracy CD class of ‘98 my homepage: http://home.talkcity.com/ParadiseDr/goodboie/index.html  : )  smile – it makes people wonder what you’re up to!

Response:

well, let me explain a little about the eye i learned, then explain the dx…. you have the white of your eye, called the scleria, then there is a protective film over the top of the scleria called the episcleria. inflammation of the scleria is called scleritis and inflammation of the episcleria is called episcleritis.   in either case, it is red and sore and *EVIL* in my opinion.  i have to put nsaid drops in my eye every single day (except when i am on pred like i am now) of my life!!!  research says that "episcleritis" usually means nothing and resolves itself shortly.  mine is of the rare permanent variey….is another chronic condition of mine like the cd and pg.  what the hey,,,it’s all "just" inflammation, right??? yeah~~RIGHT!!! jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Jeff, when you get episceritis of the eyes, what do your eyes do? What is the symptoms is probably a better question.  Really need to know because I have been ignoring something and when I read this, it brought to my attention that ignoring might not be good.  Email me if you would. Thanks, UM MOM Suan oh yeah, cramps all over the place…. d with bleeding, muscle aches and pains, episceritis in the eyes…and with luck you neva get pyoderma gangrenosum.  waz’that you say?  do a search and you will see pics and about 1 to 2% of crohnies get this, i am a lucky minority to get this dreaded disease. good luck to you and welcome to our group.  don’t be bashful, just ask away. jeff, c.d., class of o1; extreme p.g., class of o2 Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks JaniceTn    (Janice in Tennessee)

Response:

Hey Jeff, when you get episceritis of the eyes, what do your eyes do?  What is the symptoms is probably a better question.  Really need to know because I have been ignoring something and when I read this, it brought to my attention that ignoring might not be good.  Email me if you would.  Thanks, UM MOM Suan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – oh yeah, cramps all over the place…. d with bleeding, muscle aches and pains, episceritis in the eyes…and with luck you neva get pyoderma gangrenosum.  waz’that you say?  do a search and you will see pics and about 1 to 2% of crohnies get this, i am a lucky minority to get this dreaded disease. good luck to you and welcome to our group.  don’t be bashful, just ask away. jeff, c.d., class of o1; extreme p.g., class of o2 Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks JaniceTn    (Janice in Tennessee)

Response:

oh yeah, cramps all over the place…. d with bleeding, muscle aches and pains, episceritis in the eyes…and with luck you neva get pyoderma gangrenosum.  waz’that you say?  do a search and you will see pics and about 1 to 2% of crohnies get this, i am a lucky minority to get this dreaded disease. good luck to you and welcome to our group.  don’t be bashful, just ask away. jeff, c.d., class of o1; extreme p.g., class of o2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks JaniceTn    (Janice in Tennessee)

Response:

Janice, I am very sorry to hear of your diagnosis.  Please know that you are not alone.  I also have CD.  I was in the same position you are know when I was first diagnosed.  I wrote an easy to understand web page describing CD, you might find it useful, http://www.skyweb.net/~mgbio/cd/cd.html. The page has links to other resources, include the Crohn’s & Colitis Foundation of America’s web site.  Learn as much as you can; knowledge is power. Good luck!  mgbio CD Class of ‘99 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks JaniceTn    (Janice in Tennessee)

Response:

Lucky Janice gets to meet the resident ass on the first day. Other comments inline: Speaking of snake oil, at this point there is NO known cure. There is NO great conspiracy between doctors, pharmaceutical companies, the government or space aliens to keep the cure from the people. Any site claiming such a thing and selling a product should be avoided. One treatment, an antibiotic combination called "RMAT," sometimes brings out certain evangelical/snake oil/conspiracy theory elements in the discussions here. One example, from a post on this newsgroup:

Evangelical I will give you. RMAT has shown a fantastic remission rate in clinical trials. It took me from a CDAI (Crohn’s Disease Activity Index) score in the mid 400s to 97 in two months. (150 or less is clinical remission — 600 = hospital bound) I only followed the protocol for about 8 months but has kept me in remission for close to two years now. (slight reversal of symptoms is happening now but I am still below 150 CDAI) Snake oil, is a lie. Snake oil has no scientific backing. RMAT has plenty of research behind it. This can be verified by looking up "paratuberculosis crohn" on Pub Med. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi Snake oil salesman don’t get invited to speak before the Department of Food Science, Queen’s University, Belfast, UK. I do think that the dairy industry & the govt agencies that control it are conspiring to diminish the role of MAP [a bacterium] in CD. Linking a deadly, long suffering disease with wholesome milk would not endear you to a powerful industry like dairy.

Is there a lie in that statement? Why don’t you post the remainder of that post or at the very least provide header information so that it can be easily looked up. Another topic like that is a diet called the SCD. Here’s another excerpt from the same post-er as above: The SCD folks are not pursuing the science that the book is supposed to be based on. IMHO the reason is $$$. The author of this theory never tells us where the "$$$" are being funneled to. Nor does he offer evidence of the alleged recipients of the "$$$" becoming wealthier. Nor does he supply an informed estimate on how much "$$$" has been brought in by the SCD’s only commercial product, an obscure and user-unfriendly diet book.

If I recall this post I did explain my reasoning behind the statement. If the SCD diet were to be tested in a clinical trial the results may be less than stellar. While a 10 – 20 % success rate would be enough to encourage further investigation it would not be beneficial to the book sales. Once again don’t cut up my posts to color me. If you would like to have an honest discussion let me know. I am just glad you have dropped the multiple supporting posts under false names. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Finally, the Crohn’s drug called Remicade brings out some rather elaborate conspiracy fantasies. Example (yet again from the above post-er): "the long term effects [of Remicade] are not known. Patients are not being informed that they are "study participants"… The post-er is referring to the fact that the FDA has not yet explicitly endorsed using Remicade more than three times, though it is expected to soon. He has the quaint notion that any drug use that has not been FDA-approved is "experimental". He does not seem to realize that his theory makes the following long-standing treatments for Crohn’s "experimental": Asacol Colazal Pentasa 6-mp Imuran Methotrexate Cyclosporine The FDA has not approved a single one of these drugs for Crohn’s disease. Asacol, Colazal, and Pentasa have been approved for UC, not CD. The rest do not have official FDA approvals for any form of IBD. This does not mean these are "experimental." These have all been studied as treatments for Crohn’s in reputable, peer-reviewed, published studies. (Imuran has been studied for IBD since 1962). It appears the post-er is confused because these studies may not have been commissioned by drug companies but instead by independent granting agencies, and because they were presented in medical journals and at conferences rather than to an FDA panel. He believes these studies don’t count. He is way out of his element on this one.

I am right in my element. The long term effects of Remicade are unknown. Do you dispute that fact? If you are given a medication that is being used outside of it’s known parameters (duration, dose or known benefits) you are participating in an experiment and should be told. Do you have a problem with informing the patient about their treatment. You must, but then again you have a problem informing this board who you are or even if you have IBD. But what can you expect of a TROLL. Well at least when you are attacking me you aren’t attacking a kind old women like Pearl. Mike Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Report showing Remicade is useful and reasonably safe at doses far beyond the FDA’s initial three-dose approval: "Infliximab treatment for Crohn’s disease: one-year experience in a Dutch academic hospital." Hommes DW, van de Heisteeg BH, van der Spek M, Bartelsman JF, van Deventer SJ. The aim of this study was to report the 1-year clinical experience with infliximab treatment for Crohn’s disease (CD) in the Netherlands. All 73 CD patients receiving infliximab infusions were prospectively followed during 1 year after the drugs’ registration in the Netherlands. Clinical response and adverse events were assessed for both active luminal disease as well as fistulous disease. A total of 212 infusions were administered to 57 patients with active luminal CD and 16 patients with fistulous CD. The mean duration between infusions was 60 days. In 17% of patients, adverse events were recorded, of which one was serious. The response rate was 81% in active luminal CD and 87% in fistulous disease. Response rates were highest in patients receiving concomitant methotrexate as maintenance therapy. Steroids could successfully be tapered off in 73% of responding luminal CD patients and 100% of responding CD patients with fistulae. Eleven patients [15 percent] showed a loss of response to continuous infliximab readministration. Our clinical experience with infliximab for active luminal and fistulous CD showed that the administration is safe, effective, and has high steroid-sparing efficacy.

Response:

One more thing about conspiracy fantasies: Don’t let that post-er convince you that if your doctor prescribes a treatment protocol that hasn’t gotten FDA approval (e.g., more than 3 doses of Remicade), that treatment is "experimental" (implication: not as safe as FDA-approved protocols). Prime example: The official, FDA-approved prescribing info. for how long to give Pentasa says: "Treatment duration in controlled trials was up to 8 weeks." Those are only the trials submitted to the FDA. Literally dozens of large-scale, long-term, independent trials have been done that support using Pentasa for *way* longer than 8 weeks. Nothing "experimental" about it.

Response:

Speaking of snake oil, at this point there is NO known cure. There is NO great conspiracy between doctors, pharmaceutical companies, the government or space aliens to keep the cure from the people. Any site claiming such a thing and selling a product should be avoided.

One treatment, an antibiotic combination called "RMAT," sometimes brings out certain evangelical/snake oil/conspiracy theory elements in the discussions here. One example, from a post on this newsgroup: I do think that the dairy industry & the govt agencies that control it are conspiring to diminish the role of MAP [a bacterium] in CD. Linking a deadly, long suffering disease with wholesome milk would not endear you to a powerful industry like dairy. Another topic like that is a diet called the SCD. Here’s another excerpt from the same post-er as above: The SCD folks are not pursuing the science that the book is supposed to be based on. IMHO the reason is $$$. The author of this theory never tells us where the "$$$" are being funneled to. Nor does he offer evidence of the alleged recipients of the "$$$" becoming wealthier. Nor does he supply an informed estimate on how much "$$$" has been brought in by the SCD’s only commercial product, an obscure and user-unfriendly diet book. Finally, the Crohn’s drug called Remicade brings out some rather elaborate conspiracy fantasies. Example (yet again from the above post-er): "the long term effects [of Remicade] are not known. Patients are not being informed that they are "study participants"… The post-er is referring to the fact that the FDA has not yet explicitly endorsed using Remicade more than three times, though it is expected to soon. He has the quaint notion that any drug use that has not been FDA-approved is "experimental". He does not seem to realize that his theory makes the following long-standing treatments for Crohn’s "experimental": Asacol Colazal Pentasa 6-mp Imuran Methotrexate Cyclosporine The FDA has not approved a single one of these drugs for Crohn’s disease. Asacol, Colazal, and Pentasa have been approved for UC, not CD. The rest do not have official FDA approvals for any form of IBD. This does not mean these are "experimental." These have all been studied as treatments for Crohn’s in reputable, peer-reviewed, published studies. (Imuran has been studied for IBD since 1962). It appears the post-er is confused because these studies may not have been commissioned by drug companies but instead by independent granting agencies, and because they were presented in medical journals and at conferences rather than to an FDA panel. He believes these studies don’t count. He is way out of his element on this one.

Response:

Janice-     Welcome to the group, though I’m sorry you had to join us.  I agree with what Mike said, research, ask questions (this is a good place for it) and do whatever else you can to give you knowledge about the illness.  I think it can help you feel more "powerful" at a time when you may feel like you have little of it;-)  Hope you have a great GI and are feeling better soon! Get/stay healthy, Kathi

Response:

Sorry you are joining us, but glad you are here. Now you get the fun task of learning all about this crappy disease. (forgive the pun) First thing a new person to this disease has to learn is how to spell it. Don’t worry everybody misspells Crohn’s…  that dang "h" is just in the wrong spot. The main problem with misspelling Crohn’s is when you do a search on Yahoo. The misspelling will bring up mainly "snake oil" sites. Speaking of snake oil, at this point there is NO known cure. There is NO great conspiracy between doctors, pharmaceutical companies, the government or space aliens to keep the cure from the people. Any site claiming such a thing and selling a product should be avoided. Ok now on to what you wanted, information. Below are a few sites that may be of help to you. www.ccfa.org (Crohn’s & Colitis Foundation of America) www.shafran.net/crohn (My doctor’s site, he is researching antibiotics for the treatment of CD. Lots of good general resources…  I should know I built it) ibd.patientcommunity.com (A completely awesome site covering everything you can think of relating to Crohn’s and colitis…  This one really should be at the top of this list.) You should search on Yahoo or Google. drop the "’s" and look it up using the word "crohn" Believe it or not you have entered this disease at the best time in history. Research is expanding and treatments are becoming more successful. Mike Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks JaniceTn    (Janice in Tennessee)

Please Visit www.ibdcure.com and sign the petition for an IBD postage stamp. All opinions expressed are mine unless otherwise noted. "those that can be offended, will be" … Pastor Don

Response:

Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease.

Well, crap. I’m sorry. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated.

I don’t have a diagnosis yet, but I have the same cramping. You have my sympathy! I have mentioned it to my internist and GI doc, and neither thing it’s a sign of IBD but could be related to dehydration from severe diarrhea. You might want to ask for a liver enzyme test, especially if you take any drugs like Actos or Zocor. It’s a simple blood test, no big deal. Lots of people here are a lot more knowledgable about this, so take what I said with a dash of salt – my docs aren’t really sure what’s going on with me.

Response:

Hello all, I had a colonoscopy yesterday, and have been diagnosed with Chron’s disease. I am totally ignorant of this disease, and hope to get more info. In the past few years, I have had attacks of severe cramping pain in both sides of my rib cage. Sometimes the right side, sometimes the left side. Is this a symptom of Chron’s disease? EKG’s and Gallbladder tests have ruled out any problems with these organs. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks JaniceTn    (Janice in Tennessee)

Response:

Question:

HI, I have suffered from OCD for 11 years and altho at times I am almost "normal" I still have issues and some very real rituals that I just have not over come what I am wondering is that altho I have managed to go to school and have a 4.0 GPA I have very serious doubts as to weather I can work with OCD,I can not afford to continue to take out student loans for thousands of dollars if there is not employment at the end of the rainbow, my ocd is in the form of contamination fears, I only wash my hands excessively after useing the bathroom and if a bathroom is not clean I can not and will not use it. I also have CHron’s disease which for thoes of you don’t know is like irritable bowel, so one problem feeds the other, how many of you reading this work and do you feel sucessful? THank you for your time and comments

Response:

If you can successfully go to school with OCD, I think you will be able to work. I work full time in a hospital and my OCD has adapted very well (except during cold and flu season). Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do something. My favorite quote is" "The only failure is not to try." If you do fail, try again. Perseverance often will get you by when other methods fail. I’ve been there. Best wishes, Ida "Crzquilter2" <crzquilt…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020411004236.11946.00002892@mb-mk.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

HI, I have suffered from OCD for 11 years and altho at times I am almost "normal" I still have issues and some very real rituals that I just have

not

over come what I am wondering is that altho I have managed to go to school

and

have a 4.0 GPA I have very serious doubts as to weather I can work with

OCD,I

can not afford to continue to take out student loans for thousands of

dollars

if there is not employment at the end of the rainbow, my ocd is in the

form of

contamination fears, I only wash my hands excessively after useing the

bathroom

and if a bathroom is not clean I can not and will not use it. I also have CHron’s disease which for thoes of you don’t know is like irritable bowel,

so

one problem feeds the other, how many of you reading this work and do you

feel

sucessful? THank you for your time and comments

Response:

Hi! My name is Dinko and I starter working two months ago (it was my first job). The first 2-3 weeks it was very hard, but I somehow succeeded to manage my obsessions (at work). Now I’m doing my job well and with pleasure I think you could try!

Response:

Question:

 (FlyLikeAnEa…@United.Com) writes:

  Hi Chloe, Yikes… Have they recalled the products, though…?   We’re in the process of identifying the customers.  It looks like six to eight weeks of installs are bad.  The fix should be simple enough that most customers could be talked through it.  There is no doubt that we will fix the problem.

Goodie, then….At least you won’t have to worry about poeple being injured…

That’s nice! To know friends do not forget us and are there thinking of us… Though it might make you wish even more to be closer to them…. Is there no possibility of tranfers with your job/work field that woudl get you closer to "home"…?   A transfer would be unlikely.  I look for jobs closer to home but none have been a great match thus far.  A few have come close and then got hung up on money.  I won’t take a 50% pay cut just to get home again.  When all the stars line up just right I’ll move on.

It will happen….Just a matter of as you say the "stars lining up". And they will, unless meanwhile you woudl happen to find the love of your life or whatever would suddenly make you want to stay where you are….;-)  

  Let’s hope you get some income tax return that falls right on time to cover those….   Hehehe.  I should start doing my taxes.  They are just lying on the living room floor.  One of these days I’ll get ambitious and do it all in one or two sittings.

Each time I plan to do them, some new paper comes along to add to them and make me start what I’ve done all over again. Was forst the landlord that ahd not handed me the tax deduction papers yet. When I finally got that, where for soem reason I thought they had to be put on the federal report (we have two to make here, one provincial, one federal, a real pain in the neck:(), I then realized they had to be put on the provincial one, which I ahd entirely finished sure the missing papers were for the federal report. Argh. Had to start all over again., BUT…As I got ready to do it, my sister told me that dental costs can go under "medical" expenses for decuctions too. Say..what? If so, never knew…Gee… That means I got to find out about that before callingmy dentist and asking for the total amounts and statements, as I sure paid one bunch of dollars in dental fees this year! I also have a few hundred dolalrs of medical bills to look at (prescriptiosn in December with that abd flue and the back pain and then the facial nerve acting up…Cost me like 400-600 in one month…:(). Argh. Just when you think you got an easy year for the filing to do, it starts pouring on you… But after I get the info about dental bills, if applicable or not for medical deduction, and where (Provincial? Fed? Both?), I can finally start.. They owe me, so its not liek I;d do it on purpose to send it late or something!!

  Thank you for sharing your experience.  It was great that you were able to regain above normal hearing.

I did for years, yes. Lately wit the otitis I donlt always hear well. All sounds muffled… Then oen day it just pops where I will relaize I hear better a second or ten, then go away again with the ears acting up… But I donlt think anythign permanent for dammages is occuring, or at least I most certainly hope not…It feels more like occasional congestion "in the ears" on those days….  

  I’m sure that my new set of ears will make differences that I’ve yet to imagine.  Hmm, maybe I should change my pen name to "four ears".

Apparently some of those  hearing aids acn be adjusted to even catch sounds in a different room, like across a wall:). You coudl start a private investigator career, maybe!;-):):)  

either. That remains. We remain much more able to hear better with the heart, then…In fact, knowign you a bit, I am surprised it never crossed my mind before that you might not hear well: I dunno, I sometimes find that some specific sort of caring and being more attuned to others comes with that, where you certainly showed that caring "tuning" with me… I shoudl ahve known…:) You learned to hear with your heart…. And that will remain as you will ehar better now with your ears,and come and make your life have a richer dimension that you will better be able to participate with and create aroudn you too, for yourself…and for others. So smile, David….You donlt have soemthign less: you just have been granted something *more*!:)   I’ve always had a good sense about what people are feeling. You are right though, I’ve probably spent a little more time knowing people here since I couldn’t elsewhere.

Oh, but I did not mean "here" in particular. It will take a while, but you willsee what I mean over time…We keep tending to still look at facial expressions, while we hear better, and in that end up deciphering more things that little facial ticks say, communicate, sort of, where we then maybe can in that pick up faster how this or that person feels as they yet talk about other things, for instance…I dunno….It seems to just be that way, where withjout realizing it, we develop a sort of observation sense to compensate forthe eharing loos,where when some eharing is gained, we remain attuned to those little things just the same, where it then ads up to the "hearing" experience….Its like hearing more than is said, in a way, if you see what I mean….Or reading in expressions and non verbal ways what is said, and in that "hearing" better….? But yep, it does sort of seem to go on with us even in reading, as it stays with us in everythign we live cause it just becomes a part of us, I guess. Experiences that "combine" to make it that way, I dunno how to say exactly what I mean. But I am sure you hear me loud and clear about it anyway!:)   I’ve been around asl

for years.  Usually I just emailed and helped where I could.  Now that I need to talk to the group too its been nice to talk to everyone.

I think th4e ng is in fact best efficient for oen if one both gives *and takes* support. I sure have my ups and downs… Some find me too giddy rosy:), some too dramatic, depending on what post they read or…waht they "hear" . But I like to share both moods, in case one helps someone somewhere, even if just to offer a smile, even if just one would smile once, that already is a little soemthgn that can help, right…? And I take support too, in exchanging back and forth in post replies and emails…in my less rosy moments as well:). Maybe it is projection on my part, but I noticed I am in fact more at ease to take support from soemoen that also does take some at times… Else I’d feel preached at or woudl feel uneasy in some strange way… After all, not everyoen is here lookign for advice at all! Many are here just for company, or cyber friendships, where in friendship, two happen to help without counting the turns and without it being a help relationship. I tend to dislike help relationship, maybe cause I ahd too many of those where poeple counted on me for help, where I came here exactly hoping to find a two way thing with a person here or there… I’m not a helper, notr a helpee I guess si what I eman, just a lonely one writing with other lonely ones in hope we feel less lonely by doing so, simply:). But not just others!! Me too!!!!:)  

  Tsst! Just a little suggestion here: chose the son you want to hear forst after you ahve your hearign aids!!   I’ve been thinking about it.  I’ll probably listen to something by the Manhiem Steamroller.  They were my favorite group for a long time.  I have all their CDs.  Actually I bought the CDs with my big stereo.  I have a few more CDs now, but not all that much more. They play classical music to a rock beat on modern and classical instruments.  I love the syncapation and depth of the songs. I know them very well by heart.  It might be nice to relive one of the songs again and hear the parts I’ve forgotten.

I don’t *think* I ever heard them…. But me and names and group names and all that…. I once told a friend I did not know who baccarach was at all. I did not either, but …he one day started writing lyrics and I went on answerign with the rest. After he did that maybe 6 time,s he went "I thought you said you did NOT know Bacharach!". Well, no, I did not. But I knew those songs!! L:) Names ring no bell with me….Though I work hard to try and get better at that….And lately, sicne just maybe two months, soemtimes I can remember names!!!:)  

  The forst oen I heard was the Rolling Stone’s

"Satisfaction"…

  "Satisfaction" is a great tune to dance to.  I love to turn up the music and dance too.  I feel the beat and syncapation and let it drive me.  I never could dance like others, just to the beat.

Of course!!!!!! You love to dance too!!!!!!!!:) See, another thing that I think might be due to our FEELING music and not just hearing it!!:) We have to feel the drums and bass! Even eharign better, I just donlt liek to dance unless I can FEEL the music physically under my feet (love to dance barefoot then!:)) and in my thorax/ribcage…:)  

So pay attention to what song you’ll listen to forst after you get your eharing aids, as it will stay with you all the rest fo your life. You woudl not want it to be Frere Jacques, right?LOL:)   Don’t even think it!

Be sure to have the song you want to listen to next to you… Chpose one you know you;d never tire of, and woudl need to cheer you through life, oen that woudl bring joy each time you;d hear it again anywhere. Cause again, I can not ehar Satisfaction without reliving the moment and lovign it!:) Smiling THAT big, celebrating….Making "a joyful noise":). You woudl not want to get out of the dr with your new hearing aids on and be caught by the muzak in he elevator!!!! Right?:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

  I might also listen to "Dr. Demento".  Its a radio show that features

… read more »

Response:

  Hi Chloe,

Yikes… Have they recalled the products, though…?

  We’re in the process of identifying the customers.  It looks like six to eight weeks of installs are bad.  The fix should be simple enough that most customers could be talked through it.  There is no doubt that we will fix the problem.

That’s nice! To know friends do not forget us and are there thinking of us… Though it might make you wish even more to be closer to them…. Is there no possibility of tranfers with your job/work field that woudl get you closer to "home"…?

  A transfer would be unlikely.  I look for jobs closer to home but none have been a great match thus far.  A few have come close and then got hung up on money.  I won’t take a 50% pay cut just to get home again.  When all the stars line up just right I’ll move on.

Let’s hope you get some income tax return that falls right on time to cover those….

  Hehehe.  I should start doing my taxes.  They are just lying on the living room floor.  One of these days I’ll get ambitious and do it all in one or two sittings.

BTW, I was deaf at some point in my childhood up to age nine. No one kows

  Thank you for sharing your experience.  It was great that you were able to regain above normal hearing.   I’m sure that my new set of ears will make differences that I’ve yet to imagine.  Hmm, maybe I should change my pen name to "four ears".

either. That remains. We remain much more able to hear better with the heart, then…In fact, knowign you a bit, I am surprised it never crossed my mind before that you might not hear well: I dunno, I sometimes find that some specific sort of caring and being more attuned to others comes with that, where you certainly showed that caring "tuning" with me… I shoudl ahve known…:) You learned to hear with your heart…. And that will remain as you will ehar better now with your ears,and come and make your life have a richer dimension that you will better be able to participate with and create aroudn you too, for yourself…and for others. So smile, David….You donlt have soemthign less: you just have been granted something *more*!:)

  I’ve always had a good sense about what people are feeling. You are right though, I’ve probably spent a little more time knowing people here since I couldn’t elsewhere.  I’ve been around asl for years.  Usually I just emailed and helped where I could.  Now that I need to talk to the group too its been nice to talk to everyone.

Tsst! Just a little suggestion here: chose the son you want to hear forst after you ahve your hearign aids!!

  I’ve been thinking about it.  I’ll probably listen to something by the Manhiem Steamroller.  They were my favorite group for a long time.  I have all their CDs.  Actually I bought the CDs with my big stereo.  I have a few more CDs now, but not all that much more. They play classical music to a rock beat on modern and classical instruments.  I love the syncapation and depth of the songs. I know them very well by heart.  It might be nice to relive one of the songs again and hear the parts I’ve forgotten.

The forst oen I heard was the Rolling Stone’s "Satisfaction"…

  "Satisfaction" is a great tune to dance to.  I love to turn up the music and dance too.  I feel the beat and syncapation and let it drive me.  I never could dance like others, just to the beat.

So pay attention to what song you’ll listen to forst after you get your eharing aids, as it will stay with you all the rest fo your life. You woudl not want it to be Frere Jacques, right?LOL:)

  Don’t even think it!   I might also listen to "Dr. Demento".  Its a radio show that features parodies of songs.  I don’t listen very often since it is on late at night and I can only hear it while in my car a few miles up the road.

What woudl be your favorite drink, then…?:)

  I’m hooked on something called Diet Mountain Dew.  I was hooked on the sugared Mountain Dew at about six years old when I was home sick.  I won a six pack from a kids show. Over the years it and Pepsi stuck with me.  Around my college years one a day wasn’t enough and my taste for milk turned to soda.  Now it seems my daily supply of water is nothing but caffinated pop.  BTW, the caffiene doesn’t bother me one way or the other.  I suppose my system just has too much of it to care about a little extra now and then.  The last few months we’ve installed water coolers at work.  I have been drinking water at work trying to reverse the trend.  Someday they’ll say the stuff is bad for me.

I’ll have a big Easter Bunny this year! A penpal is visiting for Easter and the following week!:) A very enjoyable one at it!:)

  That is great.  You need to get ready.  Easter will be here soon.   Thanks for adding to my novel.   I’m off to make some supper.  At least my stove doesn’t burn everything.  However, I do tend to burn stuff when I get online!   Good evening,   David

Response:

  Hi Chloe,   I couldn’t sleep.  Today was hectic.  Work was a challange diagnosing a customer problem.  It turned out ot be a major snafu for someone — yet to be discovered.  We shipped a bunch of products with only half their memory chips in them.  Okay, sounds simple enough, but when these devices fail someone may get hurt.  I’ve been trying not to worry but perhaps on some level I am.   My friends have stayed in touch a little more.  Little phone calls to talk and stuff like that.  I think they are using up the last of their calling card.  Some of our mutual friends who didn’t vacation this year have been writing emails.  So it has helped a little.   I spent part of the day bummed that I was having hearing problems. The Dr. confirmed just how bad my hearing is.  At least I know where to set the balance and volume controls for the stereo in the car.  My first aids will come just after Easter.  I don’t know how I’ll pay for them but I’ll manage.  I just hope they work well.   Mostly I’ve been feeling pretty good.  The weather is shaping up here.  I enjoy having a nice sunny day — even though I work in a building without any windows.  I always go out for lunch just to see the sun.  Lately I’ve been coming home for lunch every day. Tomorrow (today) I’ll be eating with the rest of my group.  We’re saying good-bye to a co-worker who decided it was time to move on.  He developed Chron’s disease recently so that may be part of his decision.  I don’t know him that well.  Part of that hearing thing again (we’ve done lunch a couple times) and we don’t talk often since I’m on a team by myself.   I’m having a mid-night soda (diet, lots of caffene) as my refreshment.  I used to kid my dad that I wasn’t old enough to drink coffee.  I just never developed the taste for it.  I’ve had a few mocha lattes (or whatever they’re called) more than I’ve had coffee.  I’m just not into hot drinks.  That said, I’ll join yo for coffee anytime, so long as I can bring my own beverage.   Easter I’ll be home to my mother’s and brother’s house for a couple days.  No vacation left, but I can afford the ticket home for the weekend (4 days).  Minus the travel that leaves 48 hours of visiting time.  Short but sweet. My nephew (10 this Friday) emailed and wondered when I’d visit again.  I was glad to tell him just a couple weeks.  He’s more into the Nintendo stuff than talking with me, but he likes to visit and greet me at the airport. My brother picks me up.  My mom isn’t up to walking, let alone driving.  Her car doesn’t get much use.  I do a lot of chores for her while I’m there.  It would be nice if I could live closer.  I’m glad my brother lives nearby her.   I lived near my parents a few years back, before my dad died.  That was before my brother moved home. Its odd that we traded places like that.  I helped take care of my mom and dad while my dad was sick with cancer.  It was a long couple years.   Well, this is turning into a novel and I need my rest. One more half cup of soda and I’ll go back to bed.   Good night Chloe,   David On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:52:37 UTC, bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Beaudoin) wrote:

Mult apologies for my being so late to get back in touch with you. Had many things happenign int he last two weeks, one being troubles with my web access…. Got some smiles to return though!:) And a few more just as a bonus;-) Hope you are feelign better…I read your post where you seemed real down…. Is the weather finally turning over there? We had our forst real spring like day today! That is,m we had many in Jan and first week of Feb, actually, but then all went yuk, cold and grey… I hope your weather is nice…It must be hard after hollidays with friends to come back to an empty home and miss them and wodner why you are where you are, and they, all togehter in that town where you used to live before…. Hope your week picks up soon for you! Hug, Chloe

—

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Hi, David!:)  (FlyLikeAnEa…@United.Com) writes:

  Hi Chloe,   I couldn’t sleep.  Today was hectic.  Work was a challange diagnosing a customer problem.  It turned out ot be a major snafu for someone — yet to be discovered.  We shipped a bunch of products with only half their memory chips in them.  Okay, sounds simple enough, but when these devices fail someone may get hurt.  I’ve been trying not to worry but perhaps on some level I am.

Yikes… Have they recalled the products, though…? Sounds like one hectic day all right…. Hope all will be solved and smooth by the week end, so that you can rest and relax and enjoy…. Me thinks you could use a bit of enjoyment….  

  My friends have stayed in touch a little more.  Little phone calls to talk and stuff like that.  I think they are using up the last of their calling card.  Some of our mutual friends who didn’t vacation this year have been writing emails.  So it has helped a little.

That’s nice! To know friends do not forget us and are there thinking of us… Though it might make you wish even more to be closer to them…. Is there no possibility of tranfers with your job/work field that woudl get you closer to "home"…?  

  I spent part of the day bummed that I was having hearing problems. The Dr. confirmed just how bad my hearing is.  At least I know where to set the balance and volume controls for the stereo in the car.  My first aids will come just after Easter.  I don’t know how I’ll pay for them but I’ll manage.  I just hope they work well.

Let’s hope you get some income tax return that falls right on time to cover those…. BTW, I was deaf at some point in my childhood up to age nine. No one kows for sure when it started. I heard fine then less then did not hear, but I dunno, I guess I did not even realize soemthign was happening while it took plac,e nor anyone around me. I heard very low sounds, nothign else. Sounds that did vibrate say. Cars or drums and bass and my dad’s big low voice for a bit of it. It just sounded totally muffled though..Cpomparable to him talking with his hand clamped tight over his mouth, say… Looking back, I know I became a total loner at a point. I coudl not play ball with other kids in the school yard, I ahd not a clue what the rules were, what this was that they were doing runnign in all directions from the ball within lines on the pavement they woudl draw with chalk… I remember I spent recesses with my hnads behind my back, my back to a wall. I now know it was so that no one would bump into me. I was constantly bumped in from all sides…I read on lips…Things at school were hard that year, where I feel on one mean teacher and where that was enough on its own to make me feel like aloning myself, or so I felt then, but now I know that not hearing surely did not help…I soent my week ends walking alone around our house, on the shade side where no one ever went, just a few feet there before the neighbor’s fence, but no risk of being bumped in. Then one day a teacher from another grade came so kindly to me…I coudl see she was saying it was not normal for me to stay there, against the wall, where she then gently unglued me fromt hat wall and brought me in the middle of the playing lines where the ball was flying everywhere, a basket ball, and where I did not know what to do….Lost… Trying to run when I saw them run, going out of the lines, seing faces laugh at me…Being pushed gently again in the lines by that teacher, then wham. A mini miracle…The basket ball his my head, right on my left ear, soooo hard, it burnt and the wind and ressure it made hurt the inner ear as well…Suddenly I was on my knees, holding my *two* ears with both hands, pressing on them…Sound was getting in and it hurt, I did not know what it was but it was terribly disturbing…Way too loud, it felt like, I;d say now. Way way too loud! That teacher then took me out of there and was talkign to me but I was just even more lost…Had I done wrong? Was shew scolding me? Not she seemed worried….She tried to remove my hands from my ears to see if I was okay, but I’d automatically forwn and press my hands strongly against my ears….To stop the pain of "hearing too loud". Noises were"killing" me, it hurt like mad, when sounds hit the ears…Way too loud! But I did not know about "loud, louder, too loud" and did not know what was happening… I spoent thenect three days like this…Until my parents started worrying seing me constantly walk and do everythign all I coudl with my hands on my ears…Mom tried to remove my hands, I;d put them back clamped on my ears the second she woudl talk… But I heard her say to dad there was somethign wrong with me and they needed tob get me to a dr…They did get me t a specialist that checked my eras with sounds, froma cute to low, and declared I ahd very fine hearing, better than the average "best" and that I’d do great in music, apparently being able to discern sounds that were only 1/16th of a note higher or lower than others…I thought the pain "went away" in the next days, but I guess I just got used to hearing normally. All this to tell you that I can certainly relate to how not hearing well can make one feel apart and be isolated without even their realizing so… Where what we then do not realize is also the difference hearing makes, for having gradually forgotten about it….Where if you feel bad that your eharing is low, think of this: it was low before the dr told you. It already was affecting you, and the diagnoistic, as much as it can be disturbing, yet is a chance at knowign what is wrong and making things better. It’s never a pleasant idea to think we have to wear prothesis… Makes us feel different, sometimes even "lessened"… But I can assure you this: a worl is ahead of you that you had forgotten… havign forgotten all about! A new dimension will be added to your daily life and come and enhance your place in the world and your participation in it, and alleviate the alonement, to create a word, in ways you might imagine but still have to embrace and discover ahead… It is not a bad thing, far from it!:) And after not eharing well, one that hears better again has one big life experience that follws them forever: in the time we do not ehar well, we learn to read people’s facial expressiosn way more, without realizing it either. That remains. We remain much more able to hear better with the heart, then…In fact, knowign you a bit, I am surprised it never crossed my mind before that you might not hear well: I dunno, I sometimes find that some specific sort of caring and being more attuned to others comes with that, where you certainly showed that caring "tuning" with me… I shoudl ahve known…:) You learned to hear with your heart…. And that will remain as you will ehar better now with your ears,and come and make your life have a richer dimension that you will better be able to participate with and create aroudn you too, for yourself…and for others. So smile, David….You donlt have soemthign less: you just have been granted something *more*!:)  

Mostly I’ve been feeling pretty good.  The weather is shaping up

here.  I enjoy having a nice sunny day — even though I work in a building without any windows.  I always go out for lunch just to see the sun.

Good that you do that. It helps the mind to stay more alert. They shoudl not allow people to work in buildings without windows… In fact there are laws here against it…I dunno about the US, though… But still, most factories are without windows here…Save in the boss’s office of course;-)   Lately I’ve been coming home for lunch every day.

Tomorrow (today) I’ll be eating with the rest of my group.  We’re saying good-bye to a co-worker who decided it was time to move on.  He developed Chron’s disease recently so that may be part of his decision.  I don’t know him that well.  Part of that hearing thing again (we’ve done lunch a couple times) and we don’t talk often since I’m on a team by myself.

Perhaps hearing better will happen to make that change of its own effect, never know!;-)… Sorry about the colleague who suffers from Chron’s…Ouch…:(…. Yesterday, I went out for a coffee and the papers, and a couple sitting next to me were tellign me all about how theur dayughter has been so ill sicne months and hwo a dr recently came up with a Chron’s disease diagnostic…The parents did not seem too aware of what it was, ad refusing the diagnostic…I hoped the dagnostic was wrong myself… Then she mentioend her daughter used to work there….I know her, as I often went there for my coffee and papers in the past….She is 19…. Sheesh…. But see, hearing, I could listen to the mom and how she felt and maybe offer a bit of support in that, in letting her let some pain out…. Which I could see in her eyeborows, her traits, marked deep as one that is sufferign sicne a while…And which coudl make me start a conversation, just a "nice day, is it not…?:)", where if she wanted she coudl use the occasion to chat and empty a bit of the load….See, you can now live that too, soon, David!:). And the smiles when they leave….and seing they’d like to stay longer…Just for being heard, somethign I was granted to do… And that you are too. With the heart first, THEN with the ears. Now that;’s the best way to make a life much risher than just with the ears first and nothign else chipping in after!;-):) Tsst! Just a little suggestion here: chose the son you want to hear forst after you ahve your hearign aids!! The forst oen I heard was the Rolling Stone’s "Satisfaction"… I ahd never danced….And did not understand dancing save for soemthign social my older borhters and sisters did but that left me thinking grown ups were not well L:). Well…The music completely took me over. Sittign quietly on my chair at home when it started on the radio, I was … read more »

Response:

Mult apologies for my being so late to get back in touch with you. Had many things happenign int he last two weeks, one being troubles with my web access…. Got some smiles to return though!:) And a few more just as a bonus;-) Hope you are feelign better…I read your post where you seemed real down…. Is the weather finally turning over there? We had our forst real spring like day today! That is,m we had many in Jan and first week of Feb, actually, but then all went yuk, cold and grey… I hope your weather is nice…It must be hard after hollidays with friends to come back to an empty home and miss them and wodner why you are where you are, and they, all togehter in that town where you used to live before…. Hope your week picks up soon for you! Hug, Chloe —

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Question:

Has anyone been put on Infliximab yet? For those of you who don’t know, it’s a new drug for Crohn’s patients. It seems to have decent results for medium to acute cases and has been shown to reduce and eliminate fistulas. I’d like to be put on it, even in a test scenario. I just want to know who’s using it and how they obtained it. If you’d like to read an article about it, visit www.ccfa.org. There may be hope for us yet!

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Another site to reference is :   WWW.CENTOCOR.COM Gary

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Looking for info on experiences of microscopic crohn’s patients with infliximab ( Remicade)

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I was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease April 12, 1999. I have had 5 infusions of Remicade. The first worked extremely well, the second not quite as well, and it just kept going until I barely noticed the effects. During the penultimate infusion, I had a very negative reaction–my blood pressure skyrocketed, I had trouble breathing and I vomited several times. The nurses gave me a steroid injection and the reaction ended shortly thereafter.  I returned approximately 8 weeks later for my fifth and final infusion. After receiving approximately 15 ccs of Remicade, I had another, more violent reaction. I was told that it was an allergic reaction and that my system had developed antibodies against the Remicade. I can no longer recieve Remicade infusions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on experiences of microscopic crohn’s patients with infliximab ( Remicade)

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Other drugs are also in development that attack either TNF or other mediators in the inflammation process, but Remicade and Enbrel are it for at least the next year and a half.

        One of the doctors involved in the study of an anti-TNF antibody at Duke mentioned that hopefully it would be out by next fall.         And I don’t want to scare anybody, but I vaguely remember during a discussion of Remicade and Enbrel that somebody (Dr. Susan?) said that there was a higher incidence of lymphoma with Remicade.  Am I nuts?  I hope that someone in ASA saved some posts from that discussion. Leslie E.  (in NC)

Response:

Here is the relevant part of the post I had in mind (re Remicade & lymphoma)         Just a comment to follow up on Gloria’s excellent summaries.         The Centocor monoclonal antibody to tNF (Remicade) has been associated with the development of antibodies to double stranded DNA and drug induced lupus in some patients with RA.  Perhaps this should not be too surprising since a number of other drugs we use can cause drug induced lupus in RA patients and other including minocycline, penicillamine and asulfidine but not methotrexate.         Secondly, this antibody has been associated with an increased incidence of lymphoma in patients with inflammatory bowel disease.         Embrel is not an antibody but a soluble form of the tNF protein which binds to the receptor and inactivates it thereby decreasing inflammation. To date, there habe been no reports of increased cancer incidence in the Embrel population.  This statement must be interpreted in the light of the fact that only short term studies have been done and only time will tell what happens to these patients at 2 years, 3 yrs, 4, etc. Dr Susan On Tue, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sandra,      You’ve got a lot of questions and I’ll try to answer them the best I can. First of all, I was at the FDA meeting and I heard everything that Immunex said, after all, I do have a huge stake in the drug Enbrel, MY LIFE! And I want to add that I have no affliation with Immunex Corporation, other than they make Enbrel and I’m in their clinical trials. I have been on Enbrel for two years and have had no side effects at all. To answer your question about infections, what was referred to as infection was bronchitis and sinusitis or colds. At first, it was thought that Enbrel caused an increase in these infections, but when the Enbrel population was compared to the general population, the rate of upper respiratory infections were the same. The same thing applied to cancers. The rate of cancers expected in the same number of people in the general population, was the same in the Enbrel population.The actual number was general population: 6.4 Enbrel population: 7.  If you consider the fact that the Enbrel population had been exposed to drugs like MTX and prednisone, the rate being equal was really good.

snip…      The other drug that the Doctor mentioned is Remicade, formerly known as Avakine. It has caused lymphomas in the clinical trials. Enbrel has not. Remicade works differently than Enbrel. Remicade is an intravenous infusion, taking about 2 1/2 hours to deliver in a doctors office. It is an anti-body to TNF. Enbrel is not an anti-body. Enbrel is a cloned copy of a naturally occurring protein that our bodies make, called TNF- receptor. Remicade has been developed for use in Chron’s disease, an inflammatory bowel disease. Centacor, the makers of Remicade hope to have it approved for use in RA because of it’s anti-TNF properties.

Leslie E.  (in NC)

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Has anyone heard of this?  It is supposedly a drug  used for bowel problems but they have found it helps RA.  Anyone know anything about it?

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I got back two drugs with that name as the generic name.   Seems to me I have heard that remicade is used for inflammatory types of arthritis sometimes, but I don’t know more than this. Remicade is being studied for RA, the manufacturer filed for FDA approval for use in RA this week.

Please correct me if Im wrong but I keep reading that remicade targets the same TNF as Enbrel? And it is one monthly injection.(I like this part) Can anyone verify this? johnie

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Has anyone heard of this?  It is supposedly a drug  used for bowel problems but they have found it helps RA.  Anyone know anything about it?

Doing a search on http://www.rxlist.com I got back two drugs with that name as the generic name.   Seems to me I have heard that remicade is used for inflammatory types of arthritis sometimes, but I don’t know more than this.   Here’s what rxlist.com says: 1 Brand Name: Avakine Generic Name: infliximab Category: TREAMENT OF CHRON’S DISEASE 2 Brand Name: Remicade Generic Name: infliximab Category: TREAMENT OF CHRON’S DISEASE Best regards,

Response:

I got back two drugs with that name as the generic name.   Seems to me I have heard that remicade is used for inflammatory types of arthritis sometimes, but I don’t know more than this.  

Remicade is being studied for RA, the manufacturer filed for FDA approval for use in RA this week. Keep Smilin’ ~krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://arthritisnet.com/kids http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html

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Please correct me if Im wrong but I keep reading that remicade targets the same TNF as Enbrel? And it is one monthly injection.(I like this part) Can anyone verify this?

Johnie, I think it does target the TNF like Enbrel. And I *think* it’s a monthly infusion, not injection and it has to be infused over several hours. Keep Smilin’ ~krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://arthritisnet.com/kids http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html

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Please correct me if Im wrong but I keep reading that remicade targets the same TNF as Enbrel? And it is one monthly injection.(I like this part) Can anyone verify this?

Hi johnie, I was given a link to a _New England Journal of Medicine _ EDITORIAL http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0004/0310.asp I could actually understand a great deal of it.  It seemed to say that the two drugs work very differently, and that the TNF targets are slightly different. From what I understood, infliximab (Remicade), treats with TNF (alpha) antibodies. When used with MTX, can be given IV every 2 months. Enbrel is a protein that treats with soluable TNF receptors that bind TNF (alpha and beta).  Can be given alone ( 2 shots a week) or with MTX. They said that they don’t know which approach is superior, more studies are needed to compare the two, and to compare them to other drug combinations.  They also noted that imfliximab is a human-mouse chimeric, and Enbrel is a fully human product. People who are interested should read the article for themselves. Regards, Sandy F.

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Hi johnie, I was given a link to a _New England Journal of Medicine _ EDITORIAL http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0004/0310.asp I could actually understand a great deal of it.  It seemed to say that the two drugs work very differently, and that the TNF targets are slightly different.

Sandy, thanks. This is the best thing Ive seen describing the differences. johnie

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Both Remicade and Enbrel have similar risk and effectiveness profiles. Remicade is slightly cheaper, and is infused at the doctors’ office over 2 1/2 hour period. Some HMOs contract with co’s that will come to your home to do this, about once every 6 weeks or 2 months. Enbrel, of course, is twice a week injections. Other drugs are also in development that attack either TNF or other mediators in the inflammation process, but Remicade and Enbrel are it for at least the next year and a half. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi johnie, I was given a link to a _New England Journal of Medicine _ EDITORIAL http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0004/0310.asp I could actually understand a great deal of it.  It seemed to say that the two drugs work very differently, and that the TNF targets are slightly different. Sandy, thanks. This is the best thing Ive seen describing the differences. johnie

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found the same article on the journal of the n.e med assoc last night. you have translated it very well.  the studies on infleximab were   done nearby at the univ.  i missed getting in on then, but the tests required iv,  not injections.     which would people prefer?  the article seemed to lean more toward enbrel, but then, who was funding the investigation? nell

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  which would people prefer?  the article seemed to lean more toward enbrel, but then, who was funding the investigation? nell

I think the cost factor may make the difference for a lot of people- If infliximab is cheaper as they say it will be then more people can benefit. Kate    Send in the clowns

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An early trial of Remicade had a couple of cases of lymphoma, but other trials haven’t shown a correlation. Other drugs are also in development that attack either TNF or other mediators in the inflammation process, but Remicade and Enbrel are it for at least the next year and a half.    One of the doctors involved in the study of an anti-TNF antibody at Duke mentioned that hopefully it would be out by next fall.    And I don’t want to scare anybody, but I vaguely remember during a discussion of Remicade and Enbrel that somebody (Dr. Susan?) said that there was a higher incidence of lymphoma with Remicade.  Am I nuts?  I hope that someone in ASA saved some posts from that discussion. Leslie E.  (in NC)

Response:

Other drugs are also in development that attack either TNF or other mediators in the inflammation process, but Remicade and Enbrel are it for at least the next year and a half.

        One of the doctors involved in the study of an anti-TNF antibody at Duke mentioned that hopefully it would be out by next fall.         And I don’t want to scare anybody, but I vaguely remember during a discussion of Remicade and Enbrel that somebody (Dr. Susan?) said that there was a higher incidence of lymphoma with Remicade.  Am I nuts?  I hope that someone in ASA saved some posts from that discussion. Leslie E.  (in NC)

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Here is the relevant part of the post I had in mind (re Remicade & lymphoma)         Just a comment to follow up on Gloria’s excellent summaries.         The Centocor monoclonal antibody to tNF (Remicade) has been associated with the development of antibodies to double stranded DNA and drug induced lupus in some patients with RA.  Perhaps this should not be too surprising since a number of other drugs we use can cause drug induced lupus in RA patients and other including minocycline, penicillamine and asulfidine but not methotrexate.         Secondly, this antibody has been associated with an increased incidence of lymphoma in patients with inflammatory bowel disease.         Embrel is not an antibody but a soluble form of the tNF protein which binds to the receptor and inactivates it thereby decreasing inflammation. To date, there habe been no reports of increased cancer incidence in the Embrel population.  This statement must be interpreted in the light of the fact that only short term studies have been done and only time will tell what happens to these patients at 2 years, 3 yrs, 4, etc. Dr Susan On Tue, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Sandra,      You’ve got a lot of questions and I’ll try to answer them the best I can. First of all, I was at the FDA meeting and I heard everything that Immunex said, after all, I do have a huge stake in the drug Enbrel, MY LIFE! And I want to add that I have no affliation with Immunex Corporation, other than they make Enbrel and I’m in their clinical trials. I have been on Enbrel for two years and have had no side effects at all. To answer your question about infections, what was referred to as infection was bronchitis and sinusitis or colds. At first, it was thought that Enbrel caused an increase in these infections, but when the Enbrel population was compared to the general population, the rate of upper respiratory infections were the same. The same thing applied to cancers. The rate of cancers expected in the same number of people in the general population, was the same in the Enbrel population.The actual number was general population: 6.4 Enbrel population: 7.  If you consider the fact that the Enbrel population had been exposed to drugs like MTX and prednisone, the rate being equal was really good.

snip…      The other drug that the Doctor mentioned is Remicade, formerly known as Avakine. It has caused lymphomas in the clinical trials. Enbrel has not. Remicade works differently than Enbrel. Remicade is an intravenous infusion, taking about 2 1/2 hours to deliver in a doctors office. It is an anti-body to TNF. Enbrel is not an anti-body. Enbrel is a cloned copy of a naturally occurring protein that our bodies make, called TNF- receptor. Remicade has been developed for use in Chron’s disease, an inflammatory bowel disease. Centacor, the makers of Remicade hope to have it approved for use in RA because of it’s anti-TNF properties.

Leslie E.  (in NC)

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Has anyone heard of this?  It is supposedly a drug  used for bowel problems but they have found it helps RA.  Anyone know anything about it?

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I got back two drugs with that name as the generic name.   Seems to me I have heard that remicade is used for inflammatory types of arthritis sometimes, but I don’t know more than this. Remicade is being studied for RA, the manufacturer filed for FDA approval for use in RA this week.

Please correct me if Im wrong but I keep reading that remicade targets the same TNF as Enbrel? And it is one monthly injection.(I like this part) Can anyone verify this? johnie

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Has anyone heard of this?  It is supposedly a drug  used for bowel problems but they have found it helps RA.  Anyone know anything about it?

Doing a search on http://www.rxlist.com I got back two drugs with that name as the generic name.   Seems to me I have heard that remicade is used for inflammatory types of arthritis sometimes, but I don’t know more than this.   Here’s what rxlist.com says: 1 Brand Name: Avakine Generic Name: infliximab Category: TREAMENT OF CHRON’S DISEASE 2 Brand Name: Remicade Generic Name: infliximab Category: TREAMENT OF CHRON’S DISEASE Best regards,

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I got back two drugs with that name as the generic name.   Seems to me I have heard that remicade is used for inflammatory types of arthritis sometimes, but I don’t know more than this.  

Remicade is being studied for RA, the manufacturer filed for FDA approval for use in RA this week. Keep Smilin’ ~krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://arthritisnet.com/kids http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html

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Please correct me if Im wrong but I keep reading that remicade targets the same TNF as Enbrel? And it is one monthly injection.(I like this part) Can anyone verify this?

Johnie, I think it does target the TNF like Enbrel. And I *think* it’s a monthly infusion, not injection and it has to be infused over several hours. Keep Smilin’ ~krissy Akron, Ohio Visit my web pages at: http://arthritisnet.com http://arthritisnet.com/kids http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/RA.html

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Please correct me if Im wrong but I keep reading that remicade targets the same TNF as Enbrel? And it is one monthly injection.(I like this part) Can anyone verify this?

Hi johnie, I was given a link to a _New England Journal of Medicine _ EDITORIAL http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0004/0310.asp I could actually understand a great deal of it.  It seemed to say that the two drugs work very differently, and that the TNF targets are slightly different. From what I understood, infliximab (Remicade), treats with TNF (alpha) antibodies. When used with MTX, can be given IV every 2 months. Enbrel is a protein that treats with soluable TNF receptors that bind TNF (alpha and beta).  Can be given alone ( 2 shots a week) or with MTX. They said that they don’t know which approach is superior, more studies are needed to compare the two, and to compare them to other drug combinations.  They also noted that imfliximab is a human-mouse chimeric, and Enbrel is a fully human product. People who are interested should read the article for themselves. Regards, Sandy F.

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Hi johnie, I was given a link to a _New England Journal of Medicine _ EDITORIAL http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0004/0310.asp I could actually understand a great deal of it.  It seemed to say that the two drugs work very differently, and that the TNF targets are slightly different.

Sandy, thanks. This is the best thing Ive seen describing the differences. johnie

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Both Remicade and Enbrel have similar risk and effectiveness profiles. Remicade is slightly cheaper, and is infused at the doctors’ office over 2 1/2 hour period. Some HMOs contract with co’s that will come to your home to do this, about once every 6 weeks or 2 months. Enbrel, of course, is twice a week injections. Other drugs are also in development that attack either TNF or other mediators in the inflammation process, but Remicade and Enbrel are it for at least the next year and a half. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi johnie, I was given a link to a _New England Journal of Medicine _ EDITORIAL http://www.nejm.org/content/1999/0340/0004/0310.asp I could actually understand a great deal of it.  It seemed to say that the two drugs work very differently, and that the TNF targets are slightly different. Sandy, thanks. This is the best thing Ive seen describing the differences. johnie

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found the same article on the journal of the n.e med assoc last night. you have translated it very well.  the studies on infleximab were   done nearby at the univ.  i missed getting in on then, but the tests required iv,  not injections.     which would people prefer?  the article seemed to lean more toward enbrel, but then, who was funding the investigation? nell

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  which would people prefer?  the article seemed to lean more toward enbrel, but then, who was funding the investigation? nell

I think the cost factor may make the difference for a lot of people- If infliximab is cheaper as they say it will be then more people can benefit. Kate    Send in the clowns

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An early trial of Remicade had a couple of cases of lymphoma, but other trials haven’t shown a correlation. Other drugs are also in development that attack either TNF or other mediators in the inflammation process, but Remicade and Enbrel are it for at least the next year and a half.    One of the doctors involved in the study of an anti-TNF antibody at Duke mentioned that hopefully it would be out by next fall.    And I don’t want to scare anybody, but I vaguely remember during a discussion of Remicade and Enbrel that somebody (Dr. Susan?) said that there was a higher incidence of lymphoma with Remicade.  Am I nuts?  I hope that someone in ASA saved some posts from that discussion. Leslie E.  (in NC)

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Question:

The only drug I’ve seen with good clearing results is Remicade from a Phase II study recently published in Lancet. However, this stuff is rocket fuel very similar to chemo, length of clearing has not been discussed, and the price is out-of-sight – Chron’s patients, for which Remicade is approved, are paying up to $8,000 a pop including multi-hour IV infusion times in hospital.

I would agree with your calling it "rocket fuel", as it is indeed a powerful medication that I would never consider for a mild case of psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis.  However, it is NOT similar to chemo in the way it works. This is a biologic medication, a humanized protein that specifically binds to and inactivates the tnf molecules in the body, which is its method of action. The tnf proteins are involved in the immune system and therefore the concern with this type of medication is reduced immune response and increased possible infection rate.  Yes, serious stuff here, but no, not chemotherapy by any means. You also have overstated the way the infusions are handled.  They are normally given either in a specially equipped physician’s office under medical supervision for a period of 3 hours per infusion every 8 weeks, or similarly handled in an out-patient infusion clinic that may be part of a hospital.  That means one treatment every couple of months, and the multi-hour is right, but it is three hours, not eight or something. By the way, Remicade has already been approved for RA (rheumatoid arthritis) for a couple of years now, in addition to the earlier approval for Chron’s disease. You also haven’t mentioned Enbrel, the other major tnf inhibitor on the market now.  It has been approved for RA, JRA (juvenile), early RA, and PA (psoriatic arthritis) approval is expected this year, probably around October or so. Testing on psoriasis has been done, but is also ongoing and looks equally promising as Remicade’s.  It is also a little further along in the clinical trials than Remicade. It is given by self-administered sub-q injections twice per week.  As someone who was on this drug (until I was found to be allergic to it), I can assure you the self-administered injections were totally painless and very easy to do. Best regards,

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number of CD45RO+ cells. Is this a good idea? I read a study done about a year ago (that seems to have disappeared from my pile at the moment)examining apoptotic (cell death)regions of cancers and only one data point seemed to come out – of all T cells and macrophages etc the one "good thing" to have to prevent cell death was CD45RO+. Since it is theorized cancer is something we may get "almost all the time", especially with age, perhaps more, rather than less, of these T cells is a good idea. Now, Amevive may not drop these counts to a "dangerous" level, but quien sabe? I agree that Amevive results are not so hot. Xanelim somewhat better, but there is very fast rebound so this willl be a continuous use drug. Only drug that has shown good results (Phase II recently published in Lancet) is Remicade, but this stuff is rocket fuel and I wouldn’t touch it. [Also, no clearing times yet available. Price is also out of sight as Chron's patients are paying up to $8,000 a pop including multi-hour hospital IV infusion.] While all this drug chatter is "exciting", how about an approach that gives 72% of patients 75% clearing after 6 treatments and 84% of patients 75% clearing after 10 treatments – two treatments a week. Cost is reasonable and clearing 6 months or better. Check out www.photomedex.com and get back to me if you have questions.

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CD45RO+ cells. These cells appear to be the ones linked with prevention of apoptotis (cell death) in cancer from a paper I read published about a year ago. At the other end of the spectrum, HIV-1 patients with severly depressed levels of CD45RO+ often suffer a particularly virulent form of psoriasis. Quien sabe? I’d agree that the Amevive results are not too exciting and, while Xanelim results are better, there is fast rebound and constant therapy will be required. The only drug I’ve seen with good clearing results is Remicade from a Phase II study recently published in Lancet. However, this stuff is rocket fuel very similar to chemo, length of clearing has not been discussed, and the price is out-of-sight – Chron’s patients, for which Remicade is approved, are paying up to $8,000 a pop including multi-hour IV infusion times in hospital. While all these drugs are "exciting", how about a therapy that 72% of patients achieve 75% clearing after 6 treatments and 84% of patients achieve 75% clearing after 10 treatments? [Treatments twice a week.] Cost is reasonable and clearing time 6 months+. You might want to take a gander at www.photomedex.com and I’d be happy to answer any questions. In full disclosure, I’ve helped finance this company over the years, own the stock, but hopefully remain objective!

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Question:

When I was originally diagnosed with CD, the aptus ulcers were on my terminal ileum. When I get a high fever, I develop cold sores on my upper lip and my whole body is burning. Tania

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this is a common harbinger of crohns When I was originally diagnosed I had what is called apthus ulcers. They were in my mouth and were very painful. I could not eat or drink and was hospitalized on IV. They looked like cold sores.

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I don’t know if there are meds for candida but the common holistic treatment involves a rather strict diet where you can eat no sugar among other things for many months maybe even for several years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds rather like it might be a candida infection. This is a yeast infection, and I believe pretty easily curable. The main concern is why you would have this infection. You might look up "candidiasis" on the web, and see what you can come up with. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author) Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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Sounds rather like it might be a candida infection. This is a yeast infection, and I believe pretty easily curable. The main concern is why you would have this infection. You might look up "candidiasis" on the web, and see what you can come up with. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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When I was originally diagnosed I had what is called apthus ulcers. They were in my mouth and were very painful. I could not eat or drink and was hospitalized on IV. They looked like cold sores. I’m sure your doctor biopsied multiple areas in the colon, terminal ileum, etc. The pathology report is the final arbiter of whether you have CD/UC. — Pearl L

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds rather like it might be a candida infection. This is a yeast infection, and I believe pretty easily curable. The main concern is why you would have this infection. You might look up "candidiasis" on the web, and see what you can come up with. Boyd — "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." (Ellen Parr- author) Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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Derrick, I’m glad everything went well and especially that IBD was ruled out! I’ve watched my own scopes, once recieving a play by play from the attending GI, very fascinating.  I have CD, not UC, but all the active spots that were shown to me were red from bleeding and inflammation.  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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If your doctor completely ruled out IBD, then you don’t have ulcerative colitis.  As far as I know, IBD is either Chron’s Disease or UC. -Joclyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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i saw so pics over the web about UC and they showed almost invisible white spot… over there a few weeks ago http://creativegrrrl.homestead.com/files/crohns.html i think it’s rather hard to tell what you really have from those image, because if the disease is not very active they might not see it all. when viewing mine the doc says "it all cake in there"…it was very easy to see all the scars and it was the same pattern all the way around. D’you saw the biopsie tool too?  this is even more impressive than any 3d games out there.  The tiny grip Snap some skin and get back home… =) hopefully it doesn’t hurt at all!! see ya Dom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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Hey everybody, it’s me again. I just got back from the colocoscopy and everything went well. They sedated me a little bit but I was pretty awake for most of the procedure. No pain or cramps or anything like that except for when they pushed into my small intestine. I even got to watch on the monitor for awhile while they were doing it. (it was kinda cool) Afterwards, when I was fully awake my doctor that he had completely ruled out IBD!  He did tell me however that he found some small white spots that kind of look like cold sores. Could this be ulcerative colitis? I’ve done a little reading on this stuff, but not nearly enough to make my own assumptions yet. Anyone have any ideas? Derrick PS –  Thank you guys so much for all the kind words. After feeling that I was completely alone in this it’s a good feeling to know that I’m not.

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Question:

Jake, baby, You are sooo far from rock bottom.  Think about it, things could be a hell of a lot worse (take it from a pessimist), so focus on the stuff that doesn’t suck. I might not know you, but I have faith in you, you can do it.  No more beer, though, OK?  I’ll be waiting to hear how you’re doing. Hang in there, oooxoooxooo Speck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

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Jake, my man, I’m so sorry to hear about all your troubles! Heck, at least you didn’t gain back *all* the weight you lost like I did. I’m starting from ground zero again. After 6 weeks LC I’d lost 2 lbs, so I got depressed and went off. Then got totally sick because I was eating wheat again which I does nasty stuff. Started again last week, and feeling better with the wheat purge – but have a net gain of 2 lbs for my first week back on LC. Anyway, I don’t mean to talk about me, but just to say I understand. So sorry to hear about school, etc. But eating the wrong stuff and drinking does not make any of it get better! Boy do I know! You get a temporary rush from stuffing your face and then it is downhill all the way. What have you been sick from? Certainly eating the wrong stuff will not help, but I hope you can get lots of veggies and the right vitamins to help build up your immune system. Sounds like you need to get back on your feet, maybe take a break from school for a semester until your have your health and strengh back, or at least take a reduced courseload. If you want to email me privately feel free to at any time, as I don’t get here to asdlc as often as I used to, but I’m certainly pulling for you. — Debbie Cusick Check out the asdlc FAQ at: http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you.

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Jake, I don’t know you and I doubt there is anything I could tell you that you don’t already know.  So, I’m just going to give you a big cyber hug {{{{{Jake}}}}  and remind you that there is no up without down; we’ve all been there and know how you feel; and this too shall pass. Now that we’ve finished our little trip through cliche-land, I also want to remind you that you’ve done it before and you can do it again.  You are not a loser because things are not going well for you.  Nothing that is going on in your life has anything to do with your value as a person.  You are just as worthy fat as you are thin.  Anybody who thinks different doesn’t have an opinion that matters anyway.  I know that sounds like total crap when you’re feeling like this, but it’s true. Grab your bootstraps and pull yourself up like only you can.  And you can do it.  Post every day.  Tell us how you’re doing.  Let us tell you we care. It worked for you before.  It can work for you again. All the best, Kiera

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Many people have already stated, far better than I, that you are *not* a disgusting person.  Someone who’s been blindsided by many unfortunate things, yes, but certainly not disgusting. I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you.

We’re a support group, hon.  We’re here for the good times as well as the bad. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat.

You are not your weight.  It’s just one facet of who you are.  You’ve had a lot of things happen within a small frame of time.  If you haven’t already done so, speak with your professors about your grades.  You might be able to work something out.  I had tumors removed from my vocal cords just before my semester began so I missed the start of the semester.  All of my professors were notified and we worked out an arrangement so that I could keep up with my classwork (I did lots of extra projects — lots of time by worth it)  Your professors may go along with it or they may not.  But you won’t know until you ask. *And* my full-time job is commission only.  No work, no pay.  That sucks so I can understand the financial problem.  My part-time job (they were quite accomodating in working around my recovery — since I’m a receptionist there, they shifted my responsibilities until I could speak again) could in no way cover my expenses.  Someone suggested calling the people you owe (I think, again, that it was Nina).  Do it.  For the most part they can be worked with to keep you current.  For some ideas you might want to check out http://www.about.com  then put in key word "debt".  They have tons of info that may be helpful as well as message boards. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen.

Now *that’s* disgusting.  You work with some pretty ignorant people. Fat can be lost.  Shithead personalities are pretty much  stuck that way for life.  Looks like you come out ahead in this one. <G I’m disgusting, and I know it.

Sorry, gotta disagree with ya here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable)

This too shall pass.  Get the high carb stuff out of your house.  Take time for yourself.  Take it one hour at a time if you have to.  You can do this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — BDJ

Response:

You don’t know me…I just signed up her…but WOW! {{{BIG HUGS}}} Guy! Things will get better. Your already back on the right track! SMILE! Lorraine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable)

Response:

Be more process oriented instead of goal oriented. You’ve done it before with dramatic results.  Go do it again.  Don’t fret about what you weigh for a couple weeks, give yourself a chance to see some results before you get upset with yourself again. I know you remember how fine it felt to get on the scale and see the results accumulate. This time drop the weight while planning your maintenance diet for when reach your goal. Prayer is a good place to go yourself.  Some quiet time in that venue will give you plenty of support. I’ve dropped 48 lbs in just less than 4 months.  I’ve used a number of diets in the past without understanding the effects of sugar and high carb foods on our bodies.  (Always did the low fat high exercise thing) Grew up in a home that had Pepsi in the fridge and potato chips on the counter all the time.  Nice white Wonder Bread in the drawer.  This diet was a revelation for me not just in terms of seeing weight fall off but in how to keep it off.  Like Dr. Atkins says, "Ban sugar from your home".  Study the section of "the book" on maintenance so you can enjoy the incredible accomplishments you’re going to have for a long time. You’ve already accomplished a great deal.  And on top of that it looks like you’re not *quite* to the point of gaining back half of what you lost. Chill out, take it easy on yourself, relax and you’ll be back to where you want to be in no time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Ditto!  I can’t say it any better than that!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jake, honey, the last thing you are is disgusting.  You are a kind and wonderful person, with a great brain and a really kickass sense of humor.  And you happen to have gained a few pounds.  So what – you have a ton of great qualities that have nothing to do with your weight.  I dont’ know ANYONE with a more stressful life than you – I don’t know anyone who goes to school full time, has all two rugrats and works full time – thats incredibly stressful and I know you must realize that.  Add your illness, those crappy grades and bills piling up to this stress and thats sounds like breakdown time to me.  It sure would be for me. Tell your supervisor to live your life with all the stress and the illnessand then count his freakin fat rolls (well, dont’ tell him that, but think it).  I dont’ know what kind of people in this world make "fat jokes" but I tell you they had better not cross my path. You lost the weight before, and you will lose it again – no big deal.  The other issues are fixable too – call the phone company, explain your illness – bet you they are willing to work with you.  One thing I have learned about utility companies, as long as you pay something, anything, they are happy – they do NOT want to turn off service to a household with small children.  They do not. And you most certainly aren’t a wuss, you are a kind and sensitive person under undo stress.  I’d cry and I daresay I am about as macho as they come   –  so cry and then go call the phone company, and the school and get life back in order so that you can get onto less important things like being thin.  Truly, it is less important than school, than kids – its just fat – it isnt’ going anywhere – and you can always lose it, right?? — -Beth, Pseudo usenet cop BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/ I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks. I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake

Okay, honey, take a deep breath.  In.  Out.  In.  Out. Let’s do this one by one. School: you’ve dealt with this, right? You went to your professors and talked about the sick thing.   Health:  You need to get better.  Sleep.  Good food.  No beer. The kids:  They’ll get better too.  One day they’ll grow up and you’ll miss these times. Creditors: Make a list, get out your checkbook and get on the phone. Pay what you can with the most important stuff.  Work out a payment plan with The rest.  Look into consolidating your bills.  Check out http://www.genus.org Diet: You can’t get skinny by tomorrow.  Make a list and grocery shop. Exercise: This is when you need it.  Get out in the sunlight.  Take a walk with lil’ and the kids. No matter how you feel right now.  Things will change.  I can’t promise that they’ll get better, but they will change.  This too shall pass. But you’ll feel a whole lot better if you’re actively working toward some small goals.  Make a list, and start attacking things one by one. You’ve done it before.  You can do it again. My mailbox is open. Cheers, Nina — SlackMistress 2.0 http://www.theslack.com

Response:

Jake, You don’t know me cos I don’t post much anymore.  I am a longtime lowcarber…. about 6 years now.  I have lost around 70 or so.  And there were times some of it came back and I am sure it will happen again.  What I have learned in that time… Food is not my friend. Period.  I can’t control anything outside of my life but I can control what I put into my body.  That eating food I know to be poison to my body is self abusive and I will feel even more depressed and sick. That getting control of *me* is the first step of getting control of the rest of my life.   Take a deep breath and just start going in the right direction.  Yes, life is really hard for you right now.  (BTW  I am really sorry you are having a hard time right now  ..)  but a new perspective can really help.  Like would you trade problems with someone whose kid has lukemia?  Or maybe a man who just buried his wife?  Now, as bad as your problems seem right now, none of them are fatal and none are insurmountable.  You can do it.  I know you can…. You have done great things in the past and you will do them in the future.  And one day you will look back at this time as a time you succeeded…. Cos you will.   Hang in there… you can do it…. Judith – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you.

And you can share this because you’ve been there for ASDLC, Jake. Jenny said what I’d have written to you, only she said it better, so reread it, please. Two other things:  (1) Are you taking any meds which are making you depressed?  Not that life has been good to you, but sometimes, chemistry can make things so much worse.  (2) You could pretend that your post was written by someone else, and answer it.  Sometimes we forget to listen to our own best advice. And one last thing, Jake: a ((((((( HUG ))))))) from me — a poster with 27% bodyfat, therefore comfortable — to keep in reserve for when you need it most. Please post again soon to let us know how you’re doing. Cheers and some extra cheers for you, Kay 232/144/maintain (lowcarb since 98/12/26) for e-mail reply, remove the BABE. *new address: on request to this addy until June 15*

Response:

lotsa stuff

     OK Mr. How much cheese can I eat in a day.  :-)  When I catch my breath dealing with all the crap in my own backyard I will come over there to lovingly kick your butt until the pain diverts your attention from these inconsequential mutterings you’re so worked up about.      You are alive.  Your wife and kids love you.  I love you. And all these folks pouring out their hearts, love you.  Most of all God loves you.  So quit yer bitchin’ and use some of that excessive brain power to reorient and prioritize your life. Lee Rodgers Lee Rodgers The Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org Sipping Oil Message Board  http://lowcarbretreat.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi LOSE weight for LOOSE jeans.  LOSERS have LOOSER jeans. "I have to say, if your mind weren’t so narrow, your waist would be." Dr.A

Response:

Jake, honey, the last thing you are is disgusting.  You are a kind and wonderful person, with a great brain and a really kickass sense of humor.  And you happen to have gained a few pounds.  So what – you have a ton of great qualities that have nothing to do with your weight.  I dont’ know ANYONE with a more stressful life than you – I don’t know anyone who goes to school full time, has all two rugrats and works full time – thats incredibly stressful and I know you must realize that.  Add your illness, those crappy grades and bills piling up to this stress and thats sounds like breakdown time to me.  It sure would be for me. Tell your supervisor to live your life with all the stress and the illnessand then count his freakin fat rolls (well, dont’ tell him that, but think it).  I dont’ know what kind of people in this world make "fat jokes" but I tell you they had better not cross my path. You lost the weight before, and you will lose it again – no big deal.  The other issues are fixable too – call the phone company, explain your illness – bet you they are willing to work with you.  One thing I have learned about utility companies, as long as you pay something, anything, they are happy – they do NOT want to turn off service to a household with small children.  They do not. And you most certainly aren’t a wuss, you are a kind and sensitive person under undo stress.  I’d cry and I daresay I am about as macho as they come   –  so cry and then go call the phone company, and the school and get life back in order so that you can get onto less important things like being thin.  Truly, it is less important than school, than kids – its just fat – it isnt’ going anywhere – and you can always lose it, right?? — -Beth, Pseudo usenet cop BikeE FX, AT and rans gliss Anchorage, Alaska http://home.gci.net/~dawg/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

dear jake, what a great post! thanks for your honesty and let us help you! please get use to reading and posting daily…….going slow, drinking your water, and staying OFF THAT DAMN SCALE! it seems "when it rains it pours" and then we get more overwhelmed than breathe, you! rosie — read and post, rosie If you find a posting or message from myself offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don’t know how to ignore a posting, complain to me and I will demonstrate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Come on Jakey! Not too long ago in Oct 2000 you helped this newbie on her way to a much better life!  I know just how your feeling with things hitting the fan so to speak. So don’t feel alone, we have huge shoulders,  a bit box of Puffs (with kitty cats printed on it,  got any receipes?) and long arms for some of the best hugs ever! Sharon aka ~cambria~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Jake, I wasn’t going to reply because you have all of these great people jumping to comfort and advise, and I don’t have any words of absolute wisdom.  But as I’ve watched the posts, something has come to mind.  We have all had trials to go though.  They are all painful. I’m sorry that this is such a painful time for you.  We are on the tail end of a financially devestating event.  It can cause so much anxiety and grief. You’ve had your share of blows the past 6 months.  Hang in there and ride it through!  Our faith in God and our friends and family are what pulled us through.  Notice that none of these things are material.  Don’t pull away from the supportive folks in your life.  Ignore those that do not uplift and support you. Hugs going out to you and your family, txmom — Pam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

I don’t think this is what you want to hear, but you have to listen anyway. You choose your own destiny. You made a mistake and now you have to make reparations. Everyone screws up. You can either change your sig line and re-commit yourself to meeting your personal goals or not. You obviously have what it takes to stick with this way of eating. Now you need to go a step further and make it a way of life. Taking a few more days to clear your head is fair enough. I do hope that by the end of the week I will see a post from you with a more enthusiastic sig line. I wish all the best to you. Your future is in your hands. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Well Drats!  I didn’t get the original post.  Don’t you just love your ISP’s.  Jake I can tell from the few responses you’ve gotten that your having a tough time. Just wanted to let you know that we are here and to encourage you to post away and get it out, I know that helps me. Seems that life situations are reeking havoc on your way of eating, believe you me I know how that is.  The past year I had some major trials, at least they were for me.  I just keep repeating to myself, I can’t control the world, what others do, or what happens to me or others, but I can control what goes in my mouth.  At times my eating was the only thing that I could depend on to be normal.  I’m not saying it was easy, but it did help. ((((((Jake)))))) Sheila

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jake – My heart goes out to you. My mother has Crohn’s also, by the way. I’m struggling in similar ways, but at a totally different place. I’m every bit as weak as you are, because when it comes down to it, almost all of us are weak. Even if you can hold up on the WOE/WOL whatever you prefer to call it, when life starts throwing you curve balls, it’s almost impossible not to revert back to the old ways. Think about it – comfort foods, alcohol, all these things we do to make ourselves feel better – tend to be bad for us. Advice? I have very little except to say that you have more power to take control of how you eat and what you eat than you do to control the other aspects of your life right now. So, take that as a gift and use it. Control this one part and maybe, just maybe, other parts will fall into place sometime down the line. And if they don’t, you’ll have the good fortune of controlling ONE thing in your life. Try it as a gift for yourself and screw one day at a time – take it one meal at a time. Good luck – Cat PS: You’re not disgusting. — The Cat House http://www.feline.org Phone+Fax: 877.278.8075

Response:

J.L. What kind of hostile rotten jerks do you hang around with? You have all this stuff going on in your life and they make negative remarks about how you look?

<snippage I was thinking the same thing! I don’t know anyone who goes around commenting on other people’s weight like that. Get thee away from those people (well, you can’t get away from your boss but you can distance yourself mentally.) Jake, all I can say is sometimes life throws you s*it. Don’t punish yourself for it. I’ve been depressed like you’re depressed right now and it’s usually because nothing is going right for me. Probably my worst was after my divorce.  My natural inclination – like yours sounds – was to beat myself up and do all sorts of things that I knew were not good for me. It wasn’t until four years (ok I’m a slow learner) and gaining about 80 pounds that I realized I’d been punishing myself all that time for being imperfect and failing my marriage. (Which is laughable because it was him that had the affairs, drank too much and abandoned me and the kids.) My point being – if you can change what’s going wrong then do so – if you can’t move past it. Everything changes and this too will pass. Continuing to punish yourself for things that are/were beyond your control is only going to dig you in deeper. We’re all here for you. Hang in there Sharene

Response:

We’re there for you, Jakey.  E-mail on the way. — Info about the Lowcarb Get-together in St. Louis: http://www.jaxworld.com/lowcarb/stlouis.html Join us September 14-16! Lowcarb Stories to Warm the Heart: http://www.jaxworld.com/lowcarb/stories.html JOIN US on the Undernet #lowcarb Channel! http://www.jaxworld.com/lowcarb/irc.html for info | I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. | I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share | this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you.

Response:

Oh {{{{Jakey  }}}} We know you and love ya !!  Hang tough.  I emailed ya K? ConnieMS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Jake – My heart goes out to you. My mother has Crohn’s also, by the way. I’m struggling in similar ways, but at a totally different place. I’m every bit as weak as you are, because when it comes down to it, almost all of us are weak. Even if you can hold up on the WOE/WOL whatever you prefer to call it, when life starts throwing you curve balls, it’s almost impossible not to revert back to the old ways. Think about it – comfort foods, alcohol, all these things we do to make ourselves feel better – tend to be bad for us. Advice? I have very little except to say that you have more power to take control of how you eat and what you eat than you do to control the other aspects of your life right now. So, take that as a gift and use it. Control this one part and maybe, just maybe, other parts will fall into place sometime down the line. And if they don’t, you’ll have the good fortune of controlling ONE thing in your life. Try it as a gift for yourself and screw one day at a time – take it one meal at a time. Good luck – Cat PS: You’re not disgusting. — The Cat House http://www.feline.org Phone+Fax: 877.278.8075

Response:

Jake: We’re here for you.  I know it’s difficult when everything starts piling down on you.  I know you had a rough time at school, but with dr’s notes and such they should let you out of that.  You worked as hard as you could.   As for the weight, I think there are very few of us who have done it once and not started to gain back.  You’ll get there!  You’re a strong man.   Anytime you need support, we’re here.  Shoot, I don’t mind private Heather A.

Response:

J.L. What kind of hostile rotten jerks do you hang around with? You have all this stuff going on in your life and they make negative remarks about how you look?  Step one seems to me to have nothing to do with your diet. If you are losing weight so that hostile destructive jerks will stop insulting you, you’re not going to get very far. Step 1. (Which you’ve taken by coming here.) Find SUPPORTIVE PEOPLE and ignore anyone in your life who isn’t giving you positive helpful energy. This is REALLY important. If you have a tendency to self-hatred, you probably learned it somewhere and you’ve been replicating that environment ever since. It was only in my 40s that I got it into my head that people who told me what was wrong with me and did nothing to help out were evil, negative, poison, toxic morons who needed to be eliminated from my environment.  It took some work, but now I live with people who, when things go wrong, help me concentrate on the good in me and help me get over the hurdles. Sometimes the most painful part is admitting that the people who are supposed to love and support you are in fact the people who are pounding you down. It hurts, especially if these toxic people have convinced you that you deserve to be beaten down. But once you realize that there is no excuse for treating anyone that way, and cut them off, you’re start seeing people you never noticed before who aren’t into tormenting other people, and your life will get back into balance. Step 2. Give yourself a break. If your kid came home from school and said, "Daddy everyone was calling me names and I failed the math test and I didn’t do my English homework" would you spank him or give him a big hug and then start to figure out how to deal with each issue. Treat yourself THE SAME WAY YOU’D TREAT A HURTING LITTLE KID! Step 3. Everyone does screw up, and it does get better. Everyone here has some tale of horror in their life. And 90% of us come out better for surviving our worst nightmare. Hang in there.  Be kind to yourself. Find support whereever possible. Get some credit counselling. Go to the school’s guidance department and find someone decent who can help you put the school stuff back together. Don’t obsess about your weight. When you get the rest of your life back in balance you will be able to deal with that too.  But NOT to placate people who don’t give a shit about you.

Response:

I’m so upset.  It’s fair to say that I hate my self- I’ve hit rock bottom. I don’t care how it sounds- ASDL-C is the only place I feel like I can share this, probably because I don’t *really* know any of you. For those who don’t know me, I started low carb in March of 2000 and was very successful-  I lost over 85 pounds in 9  months, and have two websites where I play diet guru for new dieters.  Well, to make a long story short, I got my ass kicked at school (I’m a parent of two in college) this semester and took the last two months off from the diet because I was simply overwhelmed. I re-started the diet in all seriousness two days ago.  I weigh 265 pounds tonight, as opposed to 223 two months ago (weighed in at 310 in March 200). I woke up this morning and thought to myself, "Man- everything sucks.  I’m sick (have been sick for four months), my kids’re sick (since two days ago- not getting any sleep), my Mom has a chronic illness (Chron’s disease), my brother’s in prison, I flunked out of all of my classes this semester (although I’m an "A" student, my sickness has kicked my ass like you wouldn’t believe), I’m two months behind on my rent and credit card bills, my phones getting turned off (again, I’ve been sick- unable to work full time until just recently)…  and on top of everything else, I’m fat. Things have gone backwards.  I used to get praised for all the weight I’ve lost.  Now, the fat jokes are back.  People ask me when the baby is due (I’m a man.).  The comment on my breasts.  They ask me why I don’t exercise, and call me Fat Bastard (that freaking Austin Powers movie).  My supervisor at work told me yesterday that I have fat rolls in places that he’s never seen. I’m disgusting, and I know it. I was so good for the last two days.  Work today kicked my ass, and I got drunk.  Damn you Anheiser Busch!!!  I know I won’t be in ketosis tomorrow. I was weak.  I *am* weak.  If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be in this position. So what am I getting at?  I always have the same advice for people- after a big, long, cheat, throw yourself into your support community, both feet first.  you people are the ONLY ones who know what I am going through (damnit to hell, I feel so fu**ing alone) – I was  only THREE POUNDS FROM GOAL!  I *need* your positive thoughts, your prayers, your support!  I swear, I’ll be here every day until I get this back under control, and even after. Please forgive me for venting- I’m crying.  I feel like a wuss- what real man cries over shit like this? Jake (fat/still fat/unattainable) — BDJ

Response:

Question:

Thanks Laura, for your most extraordinary post. Ginger has just had the GI series and is awaiting results. Your observation about vomitting will get my special attention. My prayers are with you and your family always. Nick C "Laura Wallace" <lewsl…@home.com

wrote in message

news:BbsO6.55213$I5.12154803@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com…

Dear Nick, I am glad to hear from you, glad your lady friend has you in her life and that you care enough to be searching for help for her.  IBS is an

insidious

(sp?) disease and robs the sufferrer of health, mobility, intimacy and lastly HOPE.  When things are at their worst, the pain and isolation lead

to

such hopelessness.  Even as a Christian, it was a great struggle to hang

on

and believe there could be a God who’d allow such suffering of the presumably "innocent".  One’s mind gravitates to such thoughts when one is in utter despair and desperation.  Without someone who cares, some folks slide into permanent depression.

 (snipped) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

In article <SnyQ6.1493$rD3.265…@news.total.net

, "Charles Shahar"

<charl…@total.net

writes: Well, the tone is changing somewhat. I appreciate that. My intention was only to share my personal experiences, in the hope that others can offer insights and help my understanding progress. The two last postings suggest that there are IBS people out there with similar concerns, who perhaps have traveled a similar road. Let’s be open and tolerant to different viewpoints. Otherwise this NG will become a monopoly for a certain way of thinking and dealing with the problem of IBS. I would also appreciate if people would avoid making personal or derogatory remarks. These are hurtful, in my opinion

As long as your clear that your sharing your personal experience rather than labeling IBSers I’d like to hear about it.  (your first post set me off because it had that you are all a bunch of whiners without any indication that you were a fellow sufferer or had any understanding of IBS) Once again coming from "I have found" type statements rather than appearing to say "you are a…… " without knowing anything about who is here will work better. One point is that IBS effects 20% of the population, so any generalization is likely to not fit a substantial portion of IBSers you talk to, and fit at least someone else. Some people try to generalize any number of neurotic tendancies to IBSers or to other IBSers and none of the generalizations are true. Some IBSers have some neurotic tendancies just like some people with ANY disorder will have that AND have neurotic tendancies. It has been a pretty long hard battle to convince anyone that IBS is a physical disorder rather than just one more sign that the individual is neurotic.  That IBS is a predominately female disorder helps to back the it’s just the hysterical people that get it attitude that is still all too prevelant. The history of IBS as a psychological abnormality is a long one (back in the early part of the century people were thought to have IBS because we had a over-idealized notion of what the perfect BM would look like and were neurotic about not being able to produce the perfect BM) and has, IMO, kept people out of doing research into treating IBS and even taking it seriously  and I’d hate to see anything return us to the days of "get over it" and you’ll be fine. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

Longtime lurker chiming in: First off, I was diagnosed with IBS a year ago.  I immediately found this newsgroup and have lurked (although I’m a regular, longime poster in several other usenet groups.)   I just started reading this thread, as I’d been away from my computer for the holiday.  I read this first post and was very interested to see some discussion about any links between the anxiety issues and IBS symptoms.  However, it seemed to disintegrate into unpleasantness, mostly based on how some people interpreted his tone/posting style.  His tone was a bit clinical and with his background in psych, he used some of the jargon…jargon that are clearly hot topics and viewed by some as negative and as labeling.   I’m an IBS sufferer, and I have anxiety issues…and I do experience an exacerbation of my symptoms, regardless of my treatment, when I am having periods of stress and anxiety.  In fact, I’ve had stress related GI probs for most of my life.  I’m not mentioning this to be whining about it…simply pointing out that I felt that the connection he was trying to make was, to me, a valid one. I do not consider myself a "nut case" nor did I feel that was what Charles was implying.  I identified with the issues he brought before the group and hoped for some dialogue.     Just some thoughts.  Some of you made it clear that none of those traits are you at all…it’s clearly not a connection for everyone.  However, some of us who are suffering do see a connection, and I personally don’t find mention of some of my coping behaviours (and some of them *are* maladaptive) and stress disorders offensive.  *shrug*  They are just things I have to work on.  We all have things we have to work on. After reading this thread, I feel as though I have to qualify every statement I make…I hope that my post is met with the tolerance and understanding that we are all striving for… Marcy

Response:

Well, the tone is changing somewhat. I appreciate that. My intention was only to share my personal experiences, in the hope that others can offer insights and help my understanding progress. The two last postings suggest that there are IBS people out there with similar concerns, who perhaps have traveled a similar road. Let’s be open and tolerant to different viewpoints. Otherwise this NG will become a monopoly for a certain way of thinking and dealing with the problem of IBS. I would also appreciate if people would avoid making personal or derogatory remarks. These are hurtful, in my opinion. -Charles Leechwrangler <leechwrang…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010528015904.29241.00003223@ng-fi1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Longtime lurker chiming in: First off, I was diagnosed with IBS a year ago.  I immediately found this newsgroup and have lurked (although I’m a regular, longime poster in

several

other usenet groups.) I just started reading this thread, as I’d been away from my computer for

the

holiday.  I read this first post and was very interested to see some

discussion

about any links between the anxiety issues and IBS symptoms.  However, it seemed to disintegrate into unpleasantness, mostly based on how some

people

interpreted his tone/posting style.  His tone was a bit clinical and with

his

background in psych, he used some of the jargon…jargon that are clearly

hot

topics and viewed by some as negative and as labeling. I’m an IBS sufferer, and I have anxiety issues…and I do experience an exacerbation of my symptoms, regardless of my treatment, when I am having periods of stress and anxiety.  In fact, I’ve had stress related GI probs

for

most of my life.  I’m not mentioning this to be whining about it…simply pointing out that I felt that the connection he was trying to make was, to

me,

a valid one. I do not consider myself a "nut case" nor did I feel that was what Charles

was

implying.  I identified with the issues he brought before the group and

hoped

for some dialogue. Just some thoughts.  Some of you made it clear that none of those traits

are

you at all…it’s clearly not a connection for everyone.  However, some of

us

who are suffering do see a connection, and I personally don’t find mention

of

some of my coping behaviours (and some of them *are* maladaptive) and

stress

disorders offensive.  *shrug*  They are just things I have to work on.  We

all

have things we have to work on. After reading this thread, I feel as though I have to qualify every

statement I

make…I hope that my post is met with the tolerance and understanding

that we

are all striving for… Marcy

Response:

Charles, Just wanted to tell you that I understand what you are trying to convey to the NG participants.   With any physical illness, it is important to remain positive.  Sometimes this seems much easier said than done, but it is necessary for complete healing with ANY condition.   Unfortunately, these posters failed to read your entire message.  If all of you read the attached message from Charles COMPLETELY, you will see that he doesn’t imply that it is ALL emotional.  He merely suggests that you can grow emotionally as you heal the physical problem.  Charles is obviously a sufferer as well; otherwise, he wouldn’t waste his time posting to this newsgroup.  He isn’t trying to sell anything, only trying to help us.  I think that some of you owe him an apology.   Maybe this IBS is causing some of us to become too sensitive.  

Subject: Re: IBS & Personality Styles

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

From: "Charles Shahar" charl…@total.net Date: 05/20/2001 7:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time Message-id: <NhYN6.1316$0A.185…@news.total.net To Laura and KM: Actually KM, from the tone of your message, you don’t seem to have problems asserting your opinions. My mistake about implying passive-aggressive behavior to IBS sufferers.  :-) Seriously though, I wish to make the following points: I think you are both great contributors to the IBS discussion of this NG. However, I don’t agree with the overemphasis on the physical side of IBS. In fact, in some ways it is a disservice to readers. The problem is that people will wait for a little blue pill to be discovered. They can be waiting most of their lives. I think that is a waste, putting one’s life on hold like that. I think IBS is actually a voyage of discovery, from a mental and physical perspective. The body is trying to get your attention… FOR A REASON. It is telling you something. And since I believe very strongly that EVERY ILLNESS is a spiritual and emotional odyssey, there is much to be gained from the journey of self-discovery that one embarks on. Please don’t get me wrong. One should continue to look for ways to alleviate their problem. No way should they accept it. But the solution, just like the problem, lies on many levels!!! And even if a little blue pill is discovered (please know that I am praying for that to happen), I strongly believe that if the emotional antecedents are not dealt with, they will manifest in other ways. Whatever negative emotions or thoughts are involved, take your pick, they will manifest physically in other ways. The mind and body are so intimately linked, it is hard to believe that these emotions will just go away along with the illness. As I said, this is a complicated issue. Cancer has an emotional component, but it can also have a strictly environmental cause. I cannot believe that the emotional component to IBS strictly happens after the fact. The bottom line is that IBS is a problem, but it is also an opportunity. Certainly one should wait for a blue pill to come along… but also heed the body’s messages. There are some subtle lessons to be learned as well. Lessons little blue pills won’t solve. -Charles

Response:

Thank you K, for the links. I have passed on the suggestion of Caltrate (from Laura). Also, (coincidence?) a news piece on a breakthrough in Chron’s disease was aired the other nite. A University of Chicago research project has shown promising results in the use of Remicade for that illness, albeit some severe side effects. I am curious about the linkage and similarities of Chron’s and IBS. Nick C "KMottus" <kmot…@aol.comspamtrap

wrote in message

news:20010522081256.10634.00001658@nso-cd.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In article <3b0966f…@news.starnetinc.com, "Niko" <theo…@jglinc.com writes: She had been to doctors, has been told and has convinced herself that

there

is no cure. She has given in to the pain, and has lost hope of getting

any

relief. She has effectively hidden this from most of her friends, family

and

even the medical professionals she works with. After hearing her describe "IBS" (I had never even heard the term before), I started researching on

the

net and newsgroups, and here I am. I have found more support and

information

in 2 weeks than she has in 2 years Since she has a medical background encourage her to look on Medline.  Alot of research has been going on the last few years and seeing that may help her decide on some treatment options to try.  They may not be cures, but can greatly reduce suffering.  If your lucky, maybe on of  the IBS researchers will be in your area, and seeing a doctor who is also working on treatments for a disease can make a big difference.  Even finding a good GI person in your area that has good bedside manner and likes working with IBS patients can make a big difference (www.iffgd.org is the international foundation that includes IBS in their focus on functional GI disorders, they may be able to recommend someone in your area). That IBS has no cure and no viable treatments is the conventional wisdom from some time ago and is not the current thinking on this disease (if it was the drug companies wouldn’t be working on a number of drugs specifically for treating IBS). Also have her read the :"Living with IBS" section of the bb on www.ibsgroup.org.  My story is there as well as several other peoples. Many people do find things that make huge differeneces in the disorder and maybe reading some sucess stories will help her have some hope, and some things she may want to talk to her doctor about trying. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

Cheers for all your support and research on your girlfriend’s behalf!! bb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Niko wrote:

Laura, I read your very insightful post, and had to reply. My girlfriend is 5 years with IBS. I never knew about it until 3 weeks ago when she had an unusually severe episode at my mother’s house. I had only seen her collapse into vomitting, diahrrea, etc. twice before, and she told me it was food poisoning both times (we had been out to eat). This time, it was mom’s home cooking, and she was out for 3 hours after the initial purging, followed by severe tremors, high body temp variation, etc. We were readly to call an ambulance (she’s a nurse, BTW) and she confessed the history of this to me, much to my shock. She has had weekly episodes for about 2 years. She had been to doctors, has been told and has convinced herself that there is no cure. She has given in to the pain, and has lost hope of getting any relief. She has effectively hidden this from most of her friends, family and even the medical professionals she works with. After hearing her describe "IBS" (I had never even heard the term before), I started researching on the net and newsgroups, and here I am. I have found more support and information in 2 weeks than she has in 2 years. I am replying to point out that there are those (many?) who HAVE given up, lost their will to fight, and suffer terribly in silence. To forget them or deny their existence is a disservice to the fight for a cure. We must realize that for every victim with the resources to participate in an internet-based newsgroup discussion about IBS, there are a dozen who cannot, and become isolated from support. I believe you are a caring and loving person who gives much to relieve the suffering of others. Your participation in this discussion proves this out. My task is to follow your lead, and bring my friend back into the realm of hope for a cure for this disease. Nick C "Laura Wallace" <lewsl…@home.com wrote in message news:uJ0O6.49418$I5.11013967@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… Regarding "little blue miracle pills" and "the spiritual odyssey" that IBS affords: I hate to speak for others, Charles, but I don’t know a single IBS sufferer who does nothing other than wait for a "cure"… We have all explored every possible solution, anything that hinted at helping our situation because our "situation", our disease, our disorder, our suffering is horrible!  I don’t know of anyone who has simply given in to the pain and discomfort and isolation etc that comes with our malady.  Indeed, that is why we are on this newsgroup, to share, to explore and to SEARCH continually for answers. To believe that IBS or cancer or a broken leg is a "spiritual journey" without seeing it as a body dealing with illness or trauma is stupid.  All of life is a spiritual journey, yes, I agree with that.  But, that does not make having coffee in the morning a religious experience…. rather, our connection with our individuality, our holiness because of a loving, forgiving God etc, that makes all of life’s moments a religious journey. You do the "readers" a disservice if all you have to offer is that we should see our suffering as an opportunity for growth.  Granted, it is an opportunity, but it is also a concrete PHYSICAL situation and that suffering is so intense at times, it overshadows any "spiritual" moments you may feel are imbedded in this chapter of life.  To shame someone because they are seeking relief from their pain and misery and depression from IBS because they are not spending their energy on "knowing themselves" better, is the disservice, Charles. Here I am, having found that Caltrate (not a blue pill by the way) has resolved my symptoms… and yet, I’m here.  Why then, Charles if I am only after a cure, would I still be in this forum?  I don’t just "preach" Caltrate… because it doesn’t work for everyone.  I am here because I found support and acceptance and suggestions of things to try that might help. I am here because HOPEFULLY, I can say something that will help someone else… There is no "blue pill" for some people… but our genuine concern and caring can be more powerful than a "blue pill". I dare say, if you suffered physically as most of us have, you would not be able to make such comments about us focussing on the "physical" side of IBS. Good Grief, man!  IBS is a physical malady.  There are indeed emotional and psychological ramifications, but it is not "in our heads".  It is NOT a matter of our being wusses who whine at every twinge of gut pain. Truly, a man who is in physical pain cannot focus on the spiritual side of things effectively until his phsyical needs are addressed.  Ever try to teach a child who is starving? Christ taught us to meet physical needs AND spiritual needs.  A man cannot eat parables. Stop harrassing us because we HOPE for cures… Some days HOPE is all we have to keep insanity from the door.  It would be so easy to give in to despair.  IBS is incurable… it is horrible and IT is what has put our lives on hold, not US.  Don’t preach about disservice to the "readers". We are family, united in our common suffering.  When we support each other and share our pain and our joys, the only disservice comes from someone who can’t join in our suffering and therefore, can’t join in our joys when one of us finds relief. If you cannot help, Charles, then do NOT hinder.  We have enough to bear. Laura W

Response:

I believe IBS is some kind of physical problem that science just has not discovered an answer for yet.  I am one of those persons who had a previous health problem (blood clotting), and it was suggested that my lifestyle may have been the contributing factor.  Lo’ and behold’, in 1993 they discovered a gene for Factor V Leiden, which is a mutation at the DNA level, and I tested positive for it.  It felt so good to know that nothing I could have done, lifestyle-wise, would have changed the outcome. The question is why so many people with Factor V Leiden do not have blood clotting episodes or health problems.  One theory is that it may take an additional gene mutation (separate from Factor V Leiden) working concurrently with Factor V Leiden to cause medical problems.  It will probably end up being a similar discovery for IBS patients, perhaps a combination of factors. bb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Shahar wrote:

To Laura and KM: Actually KM, from the tone of your message, you don’t seem to have problems asserting your opinions. My mistake about implying passive-aggressive behavior to IBS sufferers.  :-) Seriously though, I wish to make the following points: I think you are both great contributors to the IBS discussion of this NG. However, I don’t agree with the overemphasis on the physical side of IBS. In fact, in some ways it is a disservice to readers. The problem is that people will wait for a little blue pill to be discovered. They can be waiting most of their lives. I think that is a waste, putting one’s life on hold like that. I think IBS is actually a voyage of discovery, from a mental and physical perspective. The body is trying to get your attention… FOR A REASON. It is telling you something. And since I believe very strongly that EVERY ILLNESS is a spiritual and emotional odyssey, there is much to be gained from the journey of self-discovery that one embarks on. Please don’t get me wrong. One should continue to look for ways to alleviate their problem. No way should they accept it. But the solution, just like the problem, lies on many levels!!! And even if a little blue pill is discovered (please know that I am praying for that to happen), I strongly believe that if the emotional antecedents are not dealt with, they will manifest in other ways. Whatever negative emotions or thoughts are involved, take your pick, they will manifest physically in other ways. The mind and body are so intimately linked, it is hard to believe that these emotions will just go away along with the illness. As I said, this is a complicated issue. Cancer has an emotional component, but it can also have a strictly environmental cause. I cannot believe that the emotional component to IBS strictly happens after the fact. The bottom line is that IBS is a problem, but it is also an opportunity. Certainly one should wait for a blue pill to come along… but also heed the body’s messages. There are some subtle lessons to be learned as well. Lessons little blue pills won’t solve. -Charles

Response:

Charles, You will end up being like most of us, spending years trying to find something that helps.  Eventually, you will have some success.  It is the discovery process (what helps, what makes it worse) that is so darned frustrating. You do need to keep working with your doctors because they may eventually find a contributing factor.  In my case, after many tests, and years of wasted time, they did find a fat malabsorption problem, and the enzymes prescribed help dramatically. bb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Shahar wrote:

I am really sorry to be getting this response. I know about the physical pain associated with IBS. I have had it since 1981, which is for about 20 years. It is my struggle to come to grips with this illness which has led me to explore myself in ways I probably would not have otherwise. However, I have taken your comments about smugness quite seriously, and will do some reflecting about it. I have obviously not been sensitive to the suffering of others, and I apologize. Your struggles deserve better. Regarding my parents paying for my rent… I actually live in a basement flat. I work diminished hours because IBS has taught me some implications related to job burnout. My mobility is affected by my illness. I can’t go on long trips, and I can’t live with the girl I love because my life isn’t normal. Anyway, why get into the limitations? I was trying to focus on the positive side, but failed miserably. I hope you all find peace with your problems. Those people who help others in this NG are doing everyone a great service. If you don’t mind, I would like to drop this thread. It has generated enough negativity. So why don’t we move on… Thanks, Charles Laura Wallace <lewsl…@home.com wrote in message news:uJ0O6.49418$I5.11013967@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… Regarding "little blue miracle pills" and "the spiritual odyssey" that IBS affords: I hate to speak for others, Charles, but I don’t know a single IBS sufferer who does nothing other than wait for a "cure"… We have all explored every possible solution, anything that hinted at helping our situation because our "situation", our disease, our disorder, our suffering is horrible!  I don’t know of anyone who has simply given in to the pain and discomfort and isolation etc that comes with our malady.  Indeed, that is why we are on this newsgroup, to share, to explore and to SEARCH continually for answers. To believe that IBS or cancer or a broken leg is a "spiritual journey" without seeing it as a body dealing with illness or trauma is stupid.  All of life is a spiritual journey, yes, I agree with that.  But, that does not make having coffee in the morning a religious experience…. rather, our connection with our individuality, our holiness because of a loving, forgiving God etc, that makes all of life’s moments a religious journey. You do the "readers" a disservice if all you have to offer is that we should see our suffering as an opportunity for growth.  Granted, it is an opportunity, but it is also a concrete PHYSICAL situation and that suffering is so intense at times, it overshadows any "spiritual" moments you may feel are imbedded in this chapter of life.  To shame someone because they are seeking relief from their pain and misery and depression from IBS because they are not spending their energy on "knowing themselves" better, is the disservice, Charles. Here I am, having found that Caltrate (not a blue pill by the way) has resolved my symptoms… and yet, I’m here.  Why then, Charles if I am only after a cure, would I still be in this forum?  I don’t just "preach" Caltrate… because it doesn’t work for everyone.  I am here because I found support and acceptance and suggestions of things to try that might help. I am here because HOPEFULLY, I can say something that will help someone else… There is no "blue pill" for some people… but our genuine concern and caring can be more powerful than a "blue pill". I dare say, if you suffered physically as most of us have, you would not be able to make such comments about us focussing on the "physical" side of IBS. Good Grief, man!  IBS is a physical malady.  There are indeed emotional and psychological ramifications, but it is not "in our heads".  It is NOT a matter of our being wusses who whine at every twinge of gut pain. Truly, a man who is in physical pain cannot focus on the spiritual side of things effectively until his phsyical needs are addressed.  Ever try to teach a child who is starving? Christ taught us to meet physical needs AND spiritual needs.  A man cannot eat parables. Stop harrassing us because we HOPE for cures… Some days HOPE is all we have to keep insanity from the door.  It would be so easy to give in to despair.  IBS is incurable… it is horrible and IT is what has put our lives on hold, not US.  Don’t preach about disservice to the "readers". We are family, united in our common suffering.  When we support each other and share our pain and our joys, the only disservice comes from someone who can’t join in our suffering and therefore, can’t join in our joys when one of us finds relief. If you cannot help, Charles, then do NOT hinder.  We have enough to bear. Laura W

Response:

In article <jm9O6.1395$0A.215…@news.total.net

, "Charles Shahar"

<charl…@total.net

writes: I am really sorry to be getting this response. I know about the physical pain associated with IBS. I have had it since 1981, which is for about 20 years. It is my struggle to come to grips with this illness which has led me to explore myself in ways I probably would not have otherwise. However, I have taken your comments about smugness quite seriously, and will do some reflecting about it. I have obviously not been sensitive to the suffering of others, and I apologize. Your struggles deserve better.

Ok, cool, your a fellow sufferer.  In the future, it helps to share that information when you discuss IBS.  There are an awful lot of people who have spiritualities that tend to the you could be well if only you wanted to be well which is a perversion of the mind-body aspects of medicine, and much of what you wrote appeared to be a healthy person telling us sick people that we could be better if we had the right postitive attitude about being sick.   While attitude makes a big difference in healing, one needs to be careful in how one works with sick people as it is all too easy to come off as "your sick because you either don’t want to be well or are too lazy to be well". By setting the stage for your insights from being a fellow sufferer, and sharing personally (the telling the story from the first person perspective rather than if you would do perspective) is generally much more effective and works much better in communicating your ideas.  If you share your struggle from your own experience it opens more doors than when you appear to be telling people what to do. The I’ve noticed that when I work on the following aspects of my personalitiy I can control my IBS better would play much better. The other problem is that had you delivered your message in person we would have had body language and other clues to figure out the underlying meaning of your words–the where you were coming from. You words seemed to be coming from someone who never had IBS but was really pissed off at the people in his life that did. Sick of them not going places with him, Sick of them not getting well because he though they should get well.  Primarily because the writing style and the tone of the words is similiar to people who feel that way. <just a bit of arm chair psychology–ignore if it doesn’t fit your situation

I understand being angry about IBS, but if you are angry with yourself about having this disorder I hope that you can forgive yourself (sometimes we appear to be angry or superior to others because of attitudes we hold about ourselfs)

Regarding my parents paying for my rent… I actually live in a basement flat. I work diminished hours because IBS has taught me some implications related to job burnout. My mobility is affected by my illness. I can’t go on long trips, and I can’t live with the girl I love because my life isn’t normal. Anyway, why get into the limitations? I was trying to focus on the positive side, but failed miserably.

What may work is for you to talk about what you did, your insights how they affected you.  The ya’ll should work on yourselves without the information that you are doing the same comes across badly.

I hope you all find peace with your problems. Those people who help others in this NG are doing everyone a great service. If you don’t mind, I would like to drop this thread. It has generated enough negativity. So why don’t we move on…

K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

Yes, all but the passive-agressive part.  I tend to be fairly direct.  btw I was subscribed as eclectic…@earthlink.net had to dump that so I’m not a newbie. been lurking for months.  leaving my job this friday and it is at least in part due to IBS

Response:

Charles, I personally do not think there are any psychological contributing factors except for moderate stress, which only makes an already existing bad situation even worse.  Of course, at times when there was stress (like attending a job interview or sitting in the dentist’s chair), nothing happens. Look at some of the events and locations some of us have had where this stuff kicked in.  Let’s try just after a shower when you still have shampoo in your hair.  That is not the time I want to exit the tub.  There is nothing on my mind at the time other than washing.  Some of the times and locations just do not make sense.  The only thing I find interesting is how that it rarely wakes a person from sleep. bb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Shahar wrote:

Has any research been done on IBS and personality styles? Having a clinical psychology background, I can’t help but analyze this connection. For instance, does any of the following sound familiar to IBS sufferers: Martyr Complex Inability to adequately express needs Conflict avoidance Social anxiety, particularly related to not measuring-up Passive-aggressive style etc. Ring a bell for anyone? -Charles

Response:

In article <3b0966f…@news.starnetinc.com

, "Niko" <theo…@jglinc.com

writes:

She had been to doctors, has been told and has convinced herself that there is no cure. She has given in to the pain, and has lost hope of getting any relief. She has effectively hidden this from most of her friends, family and even the medical professionals she works with. After hearing her describe "IBS" (I had never even heard the term before), I started researching on the net and newsgroups, and here I am. I have found more support and information in 2 weeks than she has in 2 years

Since she has a medical background encourage her to look on Medline.  Alot of research has been going on the last few years and seeing that may help her decide on some treatment options to try.  They may not be cures, but can greatly reduce suffering.  If your lucky, maybe on of  the IBS researchers will be in your area, and seeing a doctor who is also working on treatments for a disease can make a big difference.  Even finding a good GI person in your area that has good bedside manner and likes working with IBS patients can make a big difference (www.iffgd.org is the international foundation that includes IBS in their focus on functional GI disorders, they may be able to recommend someone in your area). That IBS has no cure and no viable treatments is the conventional wisdom from some time ago and is not the current thinking on this disease (if it was the drug companies wouldn’t be working on a number of drugs specifically for treating IBS). Also have her read the :"Living with IBS" section of the bb on www.ibsgroup.org.  My story is there as well as several other peoples. Many people do find things that make huge differeneces in the disorder and maybe reading some sucess stories will help her have some hope, and some things she may want to talk to her doctor about trying. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

Dear Nick, I am glad to hear from you, glad your lady friend has you in her life and that you care enough to be searching for help for her.  IBS is an insidious (sp?) disease and robs the sufferrer of health, mobility, intimacy and lastly HOPE.  When things are at their worst, the pain and isolation lead to such hopelessness.  Even as a Christian, it was a great struggle to hang on and believe there could be a God who’d allow such suffering of the presumably "innocent".  One’s mind gravitates to such thoughts when one is in utter despair and desperation.  Without someone who cares, some folks slide into permanent depression. I must admit that before I found calcium for my IBS, and it doesn’t help everyone, I had only a few folks who knew about my condition and whom I could talk to.  My older sister suffers but not nearly as severely or as often.  I would talk to her sometimes but even she had a difficult time understanding why I couldn’t just take Imodium and be okay in a couple of hours like her… But, some of us suffer worse cases.  I’ve had IBS for 20 years… and it didn’t start out so severe… but by last summer, before calcium, I was having daily episodes which often lasted for hours.  In order to leave the house for more than 20 minutes, I had to fast (STARVE) for 24-48 hours AND take an Imodium as an extra precaution.  Generally, if my husband and I had to make a trip, I fasted for the entire trip…. if I ate anything during the time away from home, it was followed by 2 Imodium tablets.  So, after we returned home, I expected and got several days of killer diarrhea and cramps… emptying for days.  This was quite a lot to put my body through. My husband has dairy intolerance so there are times when he has a "reaction" to eating cheese or something and has diarrhea and gas etc… So, he had a small idea of what fun IBS was… We discussed IBS before we got far into the relationship… He just didn’t realize how big a deal it was in my life. During our five year marriage, we have missed out on many things because of my illness… including a trip to the Olympics when they were in Atlanta – about 2 hours from my home.  He’s wanted to take me all over the country, site seeing… but alas, I could not go.  The few trips we have made to his hometown in Kentucky to visit his family have been an ordeal for me.  IBS does strongly impact relationships.  It is tough knowing that because of my illness, my husband and children have missed out on fun, educational things…  It has taken quite a lot to be able to let it go, to realize I have done my best and can’t be blamed for the illness.  It is not like I could change it or choose NOT to be sick.  If I could, I would.  Children don’t understand when they are young though… they do resent mommy for always being sick.  They wind up going on fun trips with other family members, my sisters or brother or with my husband and not me etc.  Someone else raised my children… because I was most often in the bathroom or in bed crying with cramps.  What a sad legacy.  The sadness and depression can be crippling. But, God led me to the newsgroup last year… It is a long story but suffice it to say, I had taken all I could bear and had a gun and was gonna end my suffering when God whispered in my ear that I had not tried EVERYTHING… He reminded me of a comment I’d heard… an old wive’s tale about calcium.  At that moment, I prayed and told God, that I would not take my life because he gave it to me… and that I would find out about calcium.  It was a turning point for me.  From there, I got online and searched furiously for info on calcium and IBS… that’s when I found this newsgroup.  Within a week, I had been told all about calcium and what some folks claimed… I’d heard from KMottus about the "technical" side of it and from LNAPE about the personal side of it …. and I felt so supported by the folks in the newsgroup that I knew things had to be better even if calcium didn’t work for me.  There were now folks who suffered, who knew what I was going through and who cared and wanted to help… with suggestion after suggestion, with technical info and personal stories to back it up. When the calcium WORKED for me, I knew it was not by accident – neither the calcium nor finding the newsgroup.  I knew that this was a wonderful gift and one that I had a responsibility to share.  I have counseled 5 people who have emailed me from reading my story on my webpage… and all five have had relief with calcium, three have had 100% relief like me and the other two people have had improvement from taking calcium but still have some attacks that are not as frequent nor as horrible.  Additionally, I was given the opportunity to be interviewed along with my family physician (who first mentioned the wive’s tale about calcium).  We were interviewed on TV on a local station.  Many folks locally have commented on the interview and asked for more details. There again though, calcium doesn’t work for everyone with IBS… but what does help everyone with IBS is having an open forum to discuss it, to whine, to debate, to explore, to share our lives, our suffering, our joys… all of it with someone who can relate and will not condemn.  I still have IBS.  If I miss my calcium I still get attacks without fail.  Yes, I had to test it to make sure it was not just a "psychological" cure, a placebo effect.  But, if I miss my calcium, I get the killer diarrhea and cramps… and once I take it again, things resolve. Nick, I have not heard of vomiting being associated with IBS.  Granted, when the cramps are very severe, I get nauseated from the pain.  Has your lady friend had GI tests to make sure there is nothing functionally wrong?  Just because a doctor labels someone as having IBS, does not mean it is necessarily a correct diagnosis…. I’d get a second opinion… And even if the diagnosis is correct, there is support available and many suggestions from fellow sufferers that may bring some relief.  Believe me, some relief is enough to give HOPE… the idea of complete resolution was ridiculous to me.  I’d been told numerous times that there is NO CURE and that I’d gone through all the drugs and therapies there were to be offered.  But that was not true.  Just because I’d done everything the gastroenteroligst had up his sleeve did not mean there were not other ideas out there.  My gastroenteroligist NEVER suggested calcium… Please, have your lady friend have a thorough GI checkup and get a second opinion for the sake of peace of mind… and then, if still sure it is IBS, ask on the newsgroup.  Many of these folks have ideas of what has helped them or others… it may be a combination thing that gives her back normalcy in her life.  KMottus is a rich source of info and is ALWAYS willing to discuss and suggest and listen.  Many many others in here are also of great help and support.  If possible, get your friend involved in the group. Having someone listen and care makes a huge impact on one’s attitude which in turn impacts overall health. My sincere hope is for all to find relief from IBS.  Let me know if I can do anything at all to help.  And thank you for your kind words. Laura W "Niko" <theo…@jglinc.com

wrote in message

news:3b0966f4_1@news.starnetinc.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Laura, I read your very insightful post, and had to reply. My girlfriend is 5

years

with IBS. I never knew about it until 3 weeks ago when she had an

unusually

severe episode at my mother’s house. I had only seen her collapse into vomitting, diahrrea, etc. twice before, and she told me it was food poisoning both times (we had been out to eat). This time, it was mom’s

home

cooking, and she was out for 3 hours after the initial purging, followed

by

severe tremors, high body temp variation, etc. We were readly to call an ambulance (she’s a nurse, BTW) and she confessed the history of this to

me,

much to my shock. She has had weekly episodes for about 2 years. She had been to doctors, has been told and has convinced herself that

there

is no cure. She has given in to the pain, and has lost hope of getting any relief. She has effectively hidden this from most of her friends, family

and

even the medical professionals she works with. After hearing her describe "IBS" (I had never even heard the term before), I started researching on

the

net and newsgroups, and here I am. I have found more support and

information

in 2 weeks than she has in 2 years. I am replying to point out that there are those (many?) who HAVE given up, lost their will to fight, and suffer terribly in silence. To forget them

or

deny their existence is a disservice to the fight for a cure. We must realize that for every victim with the resources to participate in an internet-based newsgroup discussion about IBS, there are a dozen who

cannot,

and become isolated from support. I believe you are a caring and loving person who gives much to relieve the suffering of others. Your participation in this discussion proves this

out. > My task is to follow your lead, and bring my friend back into the realm of > hope for a cure for this disease. > Nick C > "Laura Wallace" <lewsl…@home.com

wrote in message

> news:uJ0O6.49418$I5.11013967@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… > > Regarding "little blue miracle pills" and "the spiritual odyssey" that IBS

affords: I hate to speak for others, Charles, but I don’t know a single IBS sufferer who does nothing other than wait for a "cure"… We have all explored every possible solution, anything that hinted at helping our situation because our "situation", our disease, our disorder, our suffering is horrible!  I don’t know of anyone who has simply given in to the pain and discomfort and isolation etc that comes with our malady.  Indeed, that is why we are on this newsgroup, to share, to explore and to SEARCH continually for answers.

… read more »

Response:

Has any research been done on IBS and personality styles? Having a clinical psychology background, I can’t help but analyze this connection. For instance, does any of the following sound familiar to IBS sufferers: Martyr Complex Inability to adequately express needs Conflict avoidance Social anxiety, particularly related to not measuring-up Passive-aggressive style etc. Ring a bell for anyone? -Charles

Response:

In article <gElN6.937$0A.112…@news.total.net

, "Charles Shahar"

<charl…@total.net

writes: Has any research been done on IBS and personality styles? Having a clinical psychology background, I can’t help but analyze this connection. For instance, does any of the following sound familiar to IBS sufferers:

IBS appears to occur in all personality styles. It is a physical disorder. OTOH, like all disorders there is a psychosocial aspect to the problem and some personality types may have more difficulty dealing with the symptoms, but any disorder that effects 20% of the population is likely to occur in a wide variety of psychological backgrounds. Look in the medical literature for Dr. D. Drossman’s work on the psychosocial aspects of IBS. Personally, I am generally very laid back and about the most UNanxious person I’ve ever met.   Please do not spread the rumor that we are all nut cases, it is not true. People with anxiety may have a harder time dealing with IBS as the symptoms of IBS tend to be anxiety provoking even in people with normal psychologies.  Pain generally raises stress and anxiety levels. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

Hi KM: I am also a very laid back, mellow person. Very seemingly calm. But you should know as well as I do, that what a person "seems" like, and what is going on inside themselves can be quite different. An inability to express negative emotions, to hide these from others, to keep anger bottled-up… all of these are not symptoms of a "nut case", as you put it. They are simply maladaptive patterns, learned in childhood, to survive certain psychosocial conditions. While I understand how people with IBS are sensitive to labels describing them as "nut cases", I also think it would be useful for them (I am including myself) to investigate what it is about their psychological makeup that perhaps aggravates and perpetuates their condition. To say IBS is a physical disorder and to leave it at that, is a bit of denial, and prevents a person from taking a deeper look at themselves and to investigate the psychological and spiritual elements that may be in the background for their problems. I am not denying the physical causes. But the situation is complex, likely involving genetic factors, environmental factors (exposure to certain types of bacteria), physiological factors, and most certainly the way a person thinks of themselves as well. Thanks for your comments, -Charles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

IBS appears to occur in all personality styles. It is a physical disorder. OTOH, like all disorders there is a psychosocial aspect to the problem and some personality types may have more difficulty dealing with the symptoms, but any disorder that effects 20% of the population is likely to occur in a wide variety of psychological backgrounds. Look in the medical literature for Dr. D. Drossman’s work on the psychosocial aspects of IBS. Personally, I am generally very laid back and about the most UNanxious person I’ve ever met. Please do not spread the rumor that we are all nut cases, it is not true. People with anxiety may have a harder time dealing with IBS as the symptoms of IBS tend to be anxiety provoking even in people with normal psychologies.  Pain generally raises stress and anxiety levels. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

I’ve done mind-body therapies for IBS and am quite aware of my inner states and how they match my external apperance.  I’ve never been one to bottle up negative emotions or any of the other maladaptive problems you brought up. The person who did my CBT that did wonders for my IBS seemed to have the same opinion of my mental status.  I didn’t have to work on personality problems but did learn how to effectively use my brain/mind to interact with the "second brain" that controls digestion (a very complex neural net that appears to be what has gone haywire in IBS). Personality can effect ALL diseases and IBS is no different than any other physical ailment. IBS is probably no more effected and no less effected than other disease. Because we haven’t had until recently had ways to measure and effect the physical aspects of the disease the interaction of the psyche and the body has been investigated. While your mental state may effect the disease it is not the cause of it.  Working on the mental state and how the nerves in your brain effect and interact with the nerves controlling you GI tract can make a difference in the course of the disorder. Again, IBS is not caused by personality defects.  Anxiety (and your baseline anxiety levels seems to be more of a how your brain is wired than anything eles) can make it more difficult to deal with IBS and for some people addressing the anxiety they feel can be useful. BTW do you suffer for IBS, how long, what’s worked for you in treating it.  What hasn’t worked… do you have any useful information to share other than implying that were all passive agressive conflict avoiding anxious martyrs. Or just like telling IBSers what’s wrong with us. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

Charles, I think I see where you are coming from, what you are getting at. But, though I may be uncomfortable with confrontations and grew up in a stressful environment as a child, parental alcoholism, I really cannot see where this plays a role in my IBS symptoms.  Additionally, with the use of calcium, I have had nearly an entire year without IBS symptoms and have not suffered any psychological problems from the lack of IBS …  I still prefer to avoid conflict… I really think that the psychological makeup of folks with IBS is completely random, initially.  However, as with any ongoing/chronic illness, depression, isolationism, lowered self esteem etc come with the territory. I do not feel that nervousness or an inability to thrive in conflict CAUSES or exaserbates IBS more than any other kind of stress does, both good and bad.  I really think IBS is no respector of persons… striking young and old, male and female, those with no other health problems and those with many other health problems. Again, I think the psychological component is not an indication of who is PRONE to get IBS, but rather, those who have IBS are more likely to suffer depression etc… Just like those with cancer or HIV or other devastating illnesses.  Not, that I am saying IBS is as bad or worse or not as bad or worse than cancer or HIV.  Every disease and illness is a hell to endure in its own right. Best wishes to you in your pondering. Laura W "Charles Shahar" <charl…@total.net

wrote in message

news:vzwN6.1082$0A.134186@news.total.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi KM: I am also a very laid back, mellow person. Very seemingly calm. But you should know as well as I do, that what a person "seems" like, and what is going on inside themselves can be quite different. An inability to express negative emotions, to hide these from others, to keep anger bottled-up… all of these are not symptoms of a "nut case", as you put it. They are simply maladaptive patterns, learned in childhood, to survive certain psychosocial conditions. While I understand how people with IBS are sensitive to labels describing them as "nut cases", I also think it would be useful for them (I am including myself) to investigate what it is about their psychological

makeup

that perhaps aggravates and perpetuates their condition. To say IBS is a physical disorder and to leave it at that, is a bit of denial, and

prevents

a person from taking a deeper look at themselves and to investigate the psychological and spiritual elements that may be in the background for

their

problems. I am not denying the physical causes. But the situation is complex, likely involving genetic factors, environmental factors (exposure to certain

types

of bacteria), physiological factors, and most certainly the way a person thinks of themselves as well. Thanks for your comments, -Charles IBS appears to occur in all personality styles. It is a physical disorder. OTOH, like all disorders there is a psychosocial aspect to the problem and some personality types may have more difficulty dealing with the symptoms, but any disorder that effects 20% of the population is likely to occur in a wide variety of psychological backgrounds. Look in the medical literature for Dr. D. Drossman’s work on the psychosocial aspects of IBS. Personally, I am generally very laid back and about the most UNanxious person I’ve ever met. Please do not spread the rumor that we are all nut cases, it is not true. People with anxiety may have a harder time dealing with IBS as the symptoms of IBS tend to be anxiety provoking even in people with normal psychologies.  Pain generally raises stress and anxiety levels. K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

To Laura and KM: Actually KM, from the tone of your message, you don’t seem to have problems asserting your opinions. My mistake about implying passive-aggressive behavior to IBS sufferers.  :-) Seriously though, I wish to make the following points: I think you are both great contributors to the IBS discussion of this NG. However, I don’t agree with the overemphasis on the physical side of IBS. In fact, in some ways it is a disservice to readers. The problem is that people will wait for a little blue pill to be discovered. They can be waiting most of their lives. I think that is a waste, putting one’s life on hold like that. I think IBS is actually a voyage of discovery, from a mental and physical perspective. The body is trying to get your attention… FOR A REASON. It is telling you something. And since I believe very strongly that EVERY ILLNESS is a spiritual and emotional odyssey, there is much to be gained from the journey of self-discovery that one embarks on. Please don’t get me wrong. One should continue to look for ways to alleviate their problem. No way should they accept it. But the solution, just like the problem, lies on many levels!!! And even if a little blue pill is discovered (please know that I am praying for that to happen), I strongly believe that if the emotional antecedents are not dealt with, they will manifest in other ways. Whatever negative emotions or thoughts are involved, take your pick, they will manifest physically in other ways. The mind and body are so intimately linked, it is hard to believe that these emotions will just go away along with the illness. As I said, this is a complicated issue. Cancer has an emotional component, but it can also have a strictly environmental cause. I cannot believe that the emotional component to IBS strictly happens after the fact. The bottom line is that IBS is a problem, but it is also an opportunity. Certainly one should wait for a blue pill to come along… but also heed the body’s messages. There are some subtle lessons to be learned as well. Lessons little blue pills won’t solve. -Charles

Response:

Charles. None of the IBSers I know or have talked with is waiting around for some future miracle pill. They are always seeking something that would help them, sometimes wisely from those who can help and sometimes unwisely from those who would take money from them for bogus cures. But they are trying. Every Day Very Hard. Again… Do you actually suffer from IBS or do you like sitting around passing judgement on us to make yourself feel superior?? K. ********************************************************* Failure is not an option, it comes packaged with the software kmot…@aol.com

Response:

The fear of shitting in your pants and seeing that fear realized even once is enough to make one’s personality fit whatever IBS model Charles has conjured up in his smug little head. Not being able to pay the rent because you haven’t been able to go to work because of your ten-second warning to get to a bathroom does wonders, as well. Who here thinks Charles’ parents pay his bills?

Response:

Regarding "little blue miracle pills" and "the spiritual odyssey" that IBS affords: I hate to speak for others, Charles, but I don’t know a single IBS sufferer who does nothing other than wait for a "cure"… We have all explored every possible solution, anything that hinted at helping our situation because our "situation", our disease, our disorder, our suffering is horrible!  I don’t know of anyone who has simply given in to the pain and discomfort and isolation etc that comes with our malady.  Indeed, that is why we are on this newsgroup, to share, to explore and to SEARCH continually for answers. To believe that IBS or cancer or a broken leg is a "spiritual journey" without seeing it as a body dealing with illness or trauma is stupid.  All of life is a spiritual journey, yes, I agree with that.  But, that does not make having coffee in the morning a religious experience…. rather, our connection with our individuality, our holiness because of a loving, forgiving God etc, that makes all of life’s moments a religious journey. You do the "readers" a disservice if all you have to offer is that we should see our suffering as an opportunity for growth.  Granted, it is an opportunity, but it is also a concrete PHYSICAL situation and that suffering is so intense at times, it overshadows any "spiritual" moments you may feel are imbedded in this chapter of life.  To shame someone because they are seeking relief from their pain and misery and depression from IBS because they are not spending their energy on "knowing themselves" better, is the disservice, Charles. Here I am, having found that Caltrate (not a blue pill by the way) has resolved my symptoms… and yet, I’m here.  Why then, Charles if I am only after a cure, would I still be in this forum?  I don’t just "preach" Caltrate… because it doesn’t work for everyone.  I am here because I found support and acceptance and suggestions of things to try that might help.  I am here because HOPEFULLY, I can say something that will help someone else… There is no "blue pill" for some people… but our genuine concern and caring can be more powerful than a "blue pill". I dare say, if you suffered physically as most of us have, you would not be able to make such comments about us focussing on the "physical" side of IBS. Good Grief, man!  IBS is a physical malady.  There are indeed emotional and psychological ramifications, but it is not "in our heads".  It is NOT a matter of our being wusses who whine at every twinge of gut pain. Truly, a man who is in physical pain cannot focus on the spiritual side of things effectively until his phsyical needs are addressed.  Ever try to teach a child who is starving? Christ taught us to meet physical needs AND spiritual needs.  A man cannot eat parables. Stop harrassing us because we HOPE for cures… Some days HOPE is all we have to keep insanity from the door.  It would be so easy to give in to despair.  IBS is incurable… it is horrible and IT is what has put our lives on hold, not US.  Don’t preach about disservice to the "readers".  We are family, united in our common suffering.  When we support each other and share our pain and our joys, the only disservice comes from someone who can’t join in our suffering and therefore, can’t join in our joys when one of us finds relief. If you cannot help, Charles, then do NOT hinder.  We have enough to bear. Laura W

Response:

I am really sorry to be getting this response. I know about the physical pain associated with IBS. I have had it since 1981, which is for about 20 years. It is my struggle to come to grips with this illness which has led me to explore myself in ways I probably would not have otherwise. However, I have taken your comments about smugness quite seriously, and will do some reflecting about it. I have obviously not been sensitive to the suffering of others, and I apologize. Your struggles deserve better. Regarding my parents paying for my rent… I actually live in a basement flat. I work diminished hours because IBS has taught me some implications related to job burnout. My mobility is affected by my illness. I can’t go on long trips, and I can’t live with the girl I love because my life isn’t normal. Anyway, why get into the limitations? I was trying to focus on the positive side, but failed miserably. I hope you all find peace with your problems. Those people who help others in this NG are doing everyone a great service. If you don’t mind, I would like to drop this thread. It has generated enough negativity. So why don’t we move on… Thanks, Charles Laura Wallace <lewsl…@home.com

wrote in message

news:uJ0O6.49418$I5.11013967@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Regarding "little blue miracle pills" and "the spiritual odyssey" that IBS affords: I hate to speak for others, Charles, but I don’t know a single IBS

sufferer

who does nothing other than wait for a "cure"… We have all explored

every

possible solution, anything that hinted at helping our situation because

our

"situation", our disease, our disorder, our suffering is horrible!  I

don’t

know of anyone who has simply given in to the pain and discomfort and isolation etc that comes with our malady.  Indeed, that is why we are on this newsgroup, to share, to explore and to SEARCH continually for

answers.

To believe that IBS or cancer or a broken leg is a "spiritual journey" without seeing it as a body dealing with illness or trauma is stupid.  All of life is a spiritual journey, yes, I agree with that.  But, that does

not

make having coffee in the morning a religious experience…. rather, our connection with our individuality, our holiness because of a loving, forgiving God etc, that makes all of life’s moments a religious journey. You do the "readers" a disservice if all you have to offer is that we

should

see our suffering as an opportunity for growth.  Granted, it is an opportunity, but it is also a concrete PHYSICAL situation and that

suffering

is so intense at times, it overshadows any "spiritual" moments you may

feel

are imbedded in this chapter of life.  To shame someone because they are seeking relief from their pain and misery and depression from IBS because they are not spending their energy on "knowing themselves" better, is the disservice, Charles. Here I am, having found that Caltrate (not a blue pill by the way) has resolved my symptoms… and yet, I’m here.  Why then, Charles if I am only after a cure, would I still be in this forum?  I don’t just "preach" Caltrate… because it doesn’t work for everyone.  I am here because I

found

support and acceptance and suggestions of things to try that might help.

I

am here because HOPEFULLY, I can say something that will help someone else… There is no "blue pill" for some people… but our genuine concern and caring can be more powerful than a "blue pill". I dare say, if you suffered physically as most of us have, you would not

be

able to make such comments about us focussing on the "physical" side of

IBS.

Good Grief, man!  IBS is a physical malady.  There are indeed emotional

and

psychological ramifications, but it is not "in our heads".  It is NOT a matter of our being wusses who whine at every twinge of gut pain. Truly, a man who is in physical pain cannot focus on the spiritual side of things effectively until his phsyical needs are addressed.  Ever try to teach a child who is starving? Christ taught us to meet physical needs AND spiritual needs.  A man cannot eat parables. Stop harrassing us because we HOPE for cures… Some days HOPE is all we have to keep insanity from the door.  It would be so easy to give in to despair.  IBS is incurable… it is horrible and IT is what has put our lives on hold, not US.  Don’t preach about disservice to the "readers".

We

are family, united in our common suffering.  When we support each other

and

share our pain and our joys, the only disservice comes from someone who can’t join in our suffering and therefore, can’t join in our joys when one of us finds relief. If you cannot help, Charles, then do NOT hinder.  We have enough to bear. Laura W

Response:

Laura, I read your very insightful post, and had to reply. My girlfriend is 5 years with IBS. I never knew about it until 3 weeks ago when she had an unusually severe episode at my mother’s house. I had only seen her collapse into vomitting, diahrrea, etc. twice before, and she told me it was food poisoning both times (we had been out to eat). This time, it was mom’s home cooking, and she was out for 3 hours after the initial purging, followed by severe tremors, high body temp variation, etc. We were readly to call an ambulance (she’s a nurse, BTW) and she confessed the history of this to me, much to my shock. She has had weekly episodes for about 2 years. She had been to doctors, has been told and has convinced herself that there is no cure. She has given in to the pain, and has lost hope of getting any relief. She has effectively hidden this from most of her friends, family and even the medical professionals she works with. After hearing her describe "IBS" (I had never even heard the term before), I started researching on the net and newsgroups, and here I am. I have found more support and information in 2 weeks than she has in 2 years. I am replying to point out that there are those (many?) who HAVE given up, lost their will to fight, and suffer terribly in silence. To forget them or deny their existence is a disservice to the fight for a cure. We must realize that for every victim with the resources to participate in an internet-based newsgroup discussion about IBS, there are a dozen who cannot, and become isolated from support. I believe you are a caring and loving person who gives much to relieve the suffering of others. Your participation in this discussion proves this out. My task is to follow your lead, and bring my friend back into the realm of hope for a cure for this disease. Nick C "Laura Wallace" <lewsl…@home.com

wrote in message

news:uJ0O6.49418$I5.11013967@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Regarding "little blue miracle pills" and "the spiritual odyssey" that IBS affords: I hate to speak for others, Charles, but I don’t know a single IBS

sufferer

who does nothing other than wait for a "cure"… We have all explored

every

possible solution, anything that hinted at helping our situation because

our

"situation", our disease, our disorder, our suffering is horrible!  I

don’t

know of anyone who has simply given in to the pain and discomfort and isolation etc that comes with our malady.  Indeed, that is why we are on this newsgroup, to share, to explore and to SEARCH continually for

answers.

To believe that IBS or cancer or a broken leg is a "spiritual journey" without seeing it as a body dealing with illness or trauma is stupid.  All of life is a spiritual journey, yes, I agree with that.  But, that does

not

make having coffee in the morning a religious experience…. rather, our connection with our individuality, our holiness because of a loving, forgiving God etc, that makes all of life’s moments a religious journey. You do the "readers" a disservice if all you have to offer is that we

should

see our suffering as an opportunity for growth.  Granted, it is an opportunity, but it is also a concrete PHYSICAL situation and that

suffering

is so intense at times, it overshadows any "spiritual" moments you may

feel

are imbedded in this chapter of life.  To shame someone because they are seeking relief from their pain and misery and depression from IBS because they are not spending their energy on "knowing themselves" better, is the disservice, Charles. Here I am, having found that Caltrate (not a blue pill by the way) has resolved my symptoms… and yet, I’m here.  Why then, Charles if I am only after a cure, would I still be in this forum?  I don’t just "preach" Caltrate… because it doesn’t work for everyone.  I am here because I

found

support and acceptance and suggestions of things to try that might help.

I

am here because HOPEFULLY, I can say something that will help someone else… There is no "blue pill" for some people… but our genuine concern and caring can be more powerful than a "blue pill". I dare say, if you suffered physically as most of us have, you would not

be

able to make such comments about us focussing on the "physical" side of

IBS.

Good Grief, man!  IBS is a physical malady.  There are indeed emotional

and

psychological ramifications, but it is not "in our heads".  It is NOT a matter of our being wusses who whine at every twinge of gut pain. Truly, a man who is in physical pain cannot focus on the spiritual side of things effectively until his phsyical needs are addressed.  Ever try to teach a child who is starving? Christ taught us to meet physical needs AND spiritual needs.  A man cannot eat parables. Stop harrassing us because we HOPE for cures… Some days HOPE is all we have to keep insanity from the door.  It would be so easy to give in to despair.  IBS is incurable… it is horrible and IT is what has put our lives on hold, not US.  Don’t preach about disservice to the "readers".

We

are family, united in our common suffering.  When we support each other

and

share our pain and our joys, the only disservice comes from someone who can’t join in our suffering and therefore, can’t join in our joys when one of us finds relief. If you cannot help, Charles, then do NOT hinder.  We have enough to bear. Laura W

Response:

Question:

My problem is that for the last two days I have had diarrhea Elaine

Elaine, I took Prilosec twice a day, and continue to do so and it has stopped the diahrrea and stomach pain that started once I took Arava.

Response:

Is prilosec a pill.  I hate drinking ucky stuff it make me gag.  Also is it sold over the counter.   Thanks for your help. Elaine -NJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My problem is that for the last two days I have had diarrhea Elaine Elaine, I took Prilosec twice a day, and continue to do so and it has stopped the diahrrea and stomach pain that started once I took Arava.

Response:

Prilosec is a capsule and is NOT sold otc, but requiers a prescription. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

prilosec is a pill, by prescription. i take it, but it has not stopped the arava diarrhea. the only thing that works for that for me is imodium. and skipping the arava every other day or so. with doc’s permssion. diane

Response:

Take the Arava before bed and without any other pills.  Avoid dairy and acidy stuff like spaghetti sauce, BBQ, and wine.  

Response:

Take the Arava before bed and without any other pills.  Avoid dairy and acidy stuff like spaghetti sauce, BBQ, and wine.

And that works for Carbo……  Give it a try. Harv

Response:

I’ll give it a try.  It sounds like a good idea.  The only thing I’m concern about is forgetting to take it at night.  I’m so use to take all my pills in the morning. Thanks Elaine-NJ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take the Arava before bed and without any other pills.  Avoid dairy and acidy stuff like spaghetti sauce, BBQ, and wine. And that works for Carbo……  Give it a try. Harv

Response:

I’ve found that I can eat all the foods that used to make me constipated, now that I’m on Arava.  Since red meat tends to make my RA flare, I rely on cheese for daily protein.  Plus my 1-2 Vicodin a day helps stop any diarrhea. Read today in the newspaper that some folks with Chron’s Disease eat coconut macaroon cookies to control chronic diarrhea.  One gentleman who’s had Chron’s disease for 40 years said he now eats 2 Archway coconut macaroons a day and it stops his diarrhea.  A Biochemist suggests that it’s the antibacterial action of the lauric acid in coconut that might be responsible for its benefits. Jean Mc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – prilosec is a pill, by prescription. i take it, but it has not stopped the arava diarrhea. the only thing that works for that for me is imodium. and skipping the arava every other day or so. with doc’s permssion. diane

Response:

Any help is appreciated.

Sorry it took me so long to answer, I was in the bathroom! <beg I am on week 6 I think of Arava and spend much of my life in the bathroom. Before going to Chicago I loaded up on imodium and then didn’t go for 3 days! (way too much information!) There is no happy medium! I’ve followed people’s food suggestions, I’ve tried imodium regularly, I’ve done everything without any luck. It’s either be constipated or go continually. I haven’t figured out which is worse! So..no I don’t have any suggestions, but if you find one that works, let me know! ~KJ Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential. My daughter, Student Ambassador: http://members.aol.com/krissyjo/ambassador.html See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html

Response:

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Hi Elaine,   Your problem is one that lots of folks have with Arava. Many people say that things bet better over time and some say that Immonium helps them.  Your idea about when to eat may be the best one until your body adjusts to the medicine. Harv

Response:

I have found for me that I can’t eat lettuce unless it is organic [no chemicals]. For someone who used to have a salad every day for lunch, this is depressing. Also found yogurt helps too. Anything which might have bothered you a tiny bit in the past is now magnified. Incorporate the same kind of binding foods you would give a child: bananas, rice, applesauce,…. But I also eat foods with fiber. I don’t have the diarrhea now [been on it since last June] unless I break down and have a salad but I am still bothered with ummmmm  well, leakage. I know, too much information. I would suggest laying in a box of Pampers bottom wipes. Very soothing. Hope you get some more ideas. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been taking arava for about 6 weeks now and it has really helped out a lot.  I am also taking mtx which the doc is weaning me off because my liver was showing some effect.  My problem is that for the last two days I have had diarrhea after having lunch. I took imodium and was okay in a couple of hours.   I know this is a side effect but has anyone else had this and what did they do to help it. It feel so good not to be in pain I could take the diarrhea but it’s a little hard at work to run to the bathroom every 10 minutes.  Tomorrow I think I just won’t eat till I get home.  Any help is appreciated. Thanks Elaine

Response:

I would suggest laying in a box of Pampers bottom wipes. Very soothing.

Do you mean literally getting inside the box and laying down? No, but seriously — when I get Celebrex-trots (it’s still the NSAID that works best and has fewest side effects for me), Huggies Supreme Care (Fragrance-Free) baby wipes are my friends. (Different brands work best for different people. With my prone-to-eczema skin, that’s the best one for me.) . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

ROFL  fraid my arse wouldn’t fit into the box. LOL   I meant lay in as in to buy instead of lie in as to put one’s tush into a tiny little box. Visualizing clown car at the circus. Wow that was funny. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would suggest laying in a box of Pampers bottom wipes. Very soothing. Do you mean literally getting inside the box and laying down? No, but seriously — when I get Celebrex-trots (it’s still the NSAID that works best and has fewest side effects for me), Huggies Supreme Care (Fragrance-Free) baby wipes are my friends. (Different brands work best for different people. With my prone-to-eczema skin, that’s the best one for me.) . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

I have been taking arava for about 6 weeks now and it has really helped out a lot.  I am also taking mtx which the doc is weaning me off because my liver was showing some effect.  My problem is that for the last two days I have had diarrhea after having lunch. I took imodium and was okay in a couple of hours.   I know this is a side effect but has anyone else had this and what did they do to help it.  It feel so good not to be in pain I could take the diarrhea but it’s a little hard at work to run to the bathroom every 10 minutes.  Tomorrow I think I just won’t eat till I get home.  Any help is appreciated. Thanks Elaine

Response:

Question:

Murlene Brake – Crohn’s Disease In 1959 when I was nineteen years old1 I began suffering from diarrhea each month at the onset of my menses. The episodes of diarrhea gradually worsened. By 1 984, I was experiencing loose-explosive bowel movements 5-to-20 times a day for at least 25 days a month. In 1 980, I was diagnosed as having Chron’s disease. I studied Chron’s disease and told my doctor that my symptoms were not consistent with Chron’s. He put me through another battery of terrible, uncomfortable tests and announced that I had Irritable Bowel Disease (IBD). I moved to another state, found another doctor, took more tests, and since I had indicated that I did not believe that my symptoms were consistent with Chron’s or IBD, I was diagnosed as having Irritable Bowel Syndrome (lBS). The word "syndrome" is a big umbrella word, so I quit arguing and began to accept the fact that I would have to live with my afflictions. The doctors also considered Multiple Sclerosis and Spasmodic Torticollis as possible diagnoses. I had such severe adverse reactions to medications normally prescribed for Chron’s, IBD and lBS that eventually I had to face my condition without the aid of medication. I was told that stress was a causal factor, but after taking an in-depth look at my life, I came to the conclusion that the only stress I had was the very real fear of "soiling" myself in public. My condition became so bad that I had to abandon my career as a Management Analyst. The adverse impact on my life was terrible. I could not travel, I was afraid to accept dinner invitations, and I left many a grocery basket filled with groceries in the aisle and went home to clean up. In general my life was "in the toilet." In addition, I was plagued with bouts of extreme fatigue, heart palpitations, esophageal spasms, kidney infections, respiratory infections, flu, colds, sinus and hay fever, allergies, subnormal temperature, laryngitis, weak leg muscles, muscle spasms, aches and pains that came and went, short term memory loss, mental confusion and a body that would not cooperate with my brain. Then depression reared its ugly head. I felt guilty all the time. My limitations kept my husband and me from enjoying life and doing almost everything. I was afraid that my condition, would eventually drive my husband away. I couldn’t stand to live with me – how could he? Then in 1984, my daughter heard on the TV news about a small community in Maryland. The entire community was ill and they finally discovered that their water was contaminated with mercury. When the contamination was cleared, the community regained their health. The symptoms reported were much like mine. So, I requested information on mercury poisoning from the Government Printing Office, the Department of Health and several other agencies. Every symptom I had ever suffered my entire life was on the list of symptoms caused by mercury toxicity. But how was I being exposed to mercury? Then in 1985, after moving to Albuquerque, I went in to have my teeth cleaned. The dentist, Dr. Bill Wolfe, (the only mercury free dentist in the state at that time) told me that I had 1 2 silver amalgam fillings and gave me his patient letter explaining that amalgams contain 50% mercury by weight. AHA! I made an appointment with my gastroenterologist to discuss the possibility of mercury toxicity. When I introduced the subject, he got up and walked out on me, saying, "That dentist is just trying to get your money." So there I was – no one to sensibly discuss the subject with, my life was literally in the toilet, my future was virtually hopeless and for all I knew "that dentist" had found a way to make money. After a little more research (I couldn’t turn up much on the subject), I decided that all I had to lose was money and "that dentist" may as well have some of mine. But I had found a common theme in the literature – if you are sensitive to mercury, you should have your amalgams replaced. One of the few diagnostic tests available was a mercury patch test (not recommended). Twenty minutes after a mercury patch test was applied, my temperature fell, my blood pressure fell, my heart rate fell and I became unresponsive to questions. I spent the next 48 hours staring at the ceiling in a very severe state of depression. I made the decision to get the amalgams out. The last amalgam came out on December 6, 1985. All my symptoms stopped immediately. During the next two years, my strength gradually returned. I had been ill most of my adult life so it took awhile to emotionally recognize that I was not sick, that I was healthy! Here it is 1994, I am 53 years old, healthier and more active than I was in my twenties. My quality of life is excellent and my only physical limitations I have now are due to a cavitation, soon to be fully corrected. I can truthfully say that at least 90% of my life-long health problems have been caused by dental work. For example, I had my first amalgam placed at nine and the dentist even gave me some mercury to play with. Shortly after that, I developed asthma. Five years later the tooth broke, was pulled and the asthma attacks stopped. In the ensuing years, 12 more amalgams were placed and I began racking up numerous, seemingly unrelated insidious physical, mental and emotional problems that disappeared after amalgam removal. Then in 1990, while I was enjoying good health for the first time in my adult life I began to have spasms and pain in my left groin. Diagnosis: Osteoarthritis. Recommendation: Hip Replacement. Solution: Cavitation surgery. People everywhere are suffering everyday from insidious, ever-progressing health problems that, like mine, are caused by the unscientific dental practices of yesterday and today. How much longer will the public stay unaware of the devastation that can be laid directly at the feet of dentistry and how much longer will the public tolerate "the art of dentistry" and insist instead on "science in dentistry?" http://www.whale.to/d/crohns.html —            MERCURY AMALGAM POISONING  INFORMATIONAL LINKS TO MERCURY POISONING FROM YOUR DENTAL AMALGAMS  LOU GEHRIG’S DISEASE (ALS) and The MERCURY Connection  http://www.iinet.com/users/royden/  AUTISM and The MERCURY Connection  http://www.ithyroid.com/autism.htm  ALZHEIMER