Genetic susceptibility — hereditary — MS and families

Question:

Rose, Now that you share your personal experience. When my first son was born, I wanted to name him Arian (you know Persians were an Arian race), but my wife did not want to have anything to do with Arian race to her, it smacked of super race and Nazis. A few days ago, we were watching the wedding pictures of an old Indian colleague. There was swastika in one of the pictures. It turns out the Hindus have had it as a symbol for thousands of years. Essentially there are certain symbols that gets associated too much with a group and it has lost its original concept. rednecks are associated with southern racists. Just think of Kleenex and Xerox. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "rose" <rosedawn_sc…@yahoo.com

news:1108305620.822199.216930@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

Abdi, damn youre stupid. There already exists bombs that can cause MS. Biological warfare bombs. Developed by several nations. All unrelated. I suggest you look into the USSRs creation of it. The scientist bragged about it on 60 Minutes… AND the Federation of American Scientists had his research up on their website for a while. Its all FACT. The DOD had the Federation pull the studies from their websites, they recalled all the books nationwide that had mention of the scientists research in it, and payed him a handsome sum to defect to the US. All Fact. You know nothing abdi, youre just paranoid… for good reason I suppose. If you actually do have MS. Rob (If you dont believe me, simply go to their website, find out who the director is, and email him. Simple right? He’ll tell ya. If he lies, let me know. I can fix that.) "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

news:ARpPd.5739$nC5.348@twister.nyroc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jamie, you are wrong, I was trying to help cure MS. The thing is, most of > the rednecks (Pentagon and … ) will > think if I say government has no interest , will think the opposite and > they may fund some research on brain disorders. So its good ,besides that > they may want to create a bomb that causes MS. They may think its > patriotic too. > — > Quaecomque sunt vera —- > "Jamie" <jamievickersnos…@rogers.com

> news:JbydnWDAhJa5D5DfRVn-tQ@rogers.com… >> wow adbi almost made a FULL on topic reply!!! but had to add a 2nd line >> poke to bring it full circle to politcal garbage. >> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

>> news:1XfPd.2211$H05.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>> Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some >>> sort of auto immune disease too. Obviously >>> its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. >>> — >>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>> "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

>>> news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… >>>>I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years >>>>before I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood >>>>for this study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. >>>> I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to >>>> properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial in >>>> nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS Society >>>> It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this >>>> researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — >>>> Canada — Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, >>>> http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm >>>> Genetic susceptibility >>>> The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George >>>> Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of >>>> British Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important >>>> factor in the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as >>>> being the largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the >>>> world. >>>> The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS >>>> Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to >>>> scientists’ understanding of MS and are enabling researchers to tackle >>>> totally new areas such as environmental factors linked with genetic >>>> susceptibility. >>>> — >>>> Larry >>>> Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it >>>> written using voice recognition software

Response:

My best guess is that there are several diseases classified as MS, a seemingly help is of no use in some cases, due to its cause. Anyway, the vaccines, artificial sweeteners, wheat sensitivity, mercury poisoning, some fats, stress, iron, lime have all been culprit in some cases, but not in all. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com

news:y7SdnaSqFqNQzI3fRVn-jg@gbronline.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

> news:NhVPd.12302$vK5.4459@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >> Hay Rob, you think the asses of evil have used these bombs on you? > Its spelled "hey". I wouldnt have a clue how I got MS. Nor do you, nor > does anyone. The most we can have are deep suspisions. I wouldnt doubt I > got it from one of the dozens of vaccinations Ive had. My shot record > looks like a small book. Or maybe I got it from a goldfish I swallowed in > college; who knows? > Seriously, whats your honest best guess? Mine is immune-disfunction in > conjuntion with exposure to mycoplasma fermentans incognitus, as it, and > MS, are indistinguishable. Indistinguishable in those who are succeptable > to it. > Rob >> — >> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >> "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com

>> news:7OCdnX1V0JwNho3fRVn-pQ@gbronline.com… >>> Abdi, damn youre stupid. There already exists bombs that can cause MS. >>> Biological warfare bombs. Developed by several nations. All unrelated. >>> I suggest you look into the USSRs creation of it. The scientist bragged >>> about it on 60 Minutes… AND the Federation of American Scientists had >>> his research up on their website for a while. Its all FACT. The DOD >>> had the Federation pull the studies from their websites, they recalled >>> all the books nationwide that had mention of the scientists research in >>> it, and payed him a handsome sum to defect to the US. All Fact. You >>> know nothing abdi, youre just paranoid… for good reason I suppose. If >>> you actually do have MS. >>> Rob >>> (If you dont believe me, simply go to their website, find out who the >>> director is, and email him. Simple right? He’ll tell ya. If he lies, >>> let me know. I can fix that.) >>> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

>>> news:ARpPd.5739$nC5.348@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>>> Jamie, you are wrong, I was trying to help cure MS. The thing is, most >>>> of the rednecks (Pentagon and … ) will >>>> think if I say government has no interest , will think the opposite and >>>> they may fund some research on brain disorders. So its good ,besides >>>> that they may want to create a bomb that causes MS. They may think its >>>> patriotic too. >>>> — >>>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>>> "Jamie" <jamievickersnos…@rogers.com

>>>> news:JbydnWDAhJa5D5DfRVn-tQ@rogers.com… >>>>> wow adbi almost made a FULL on topic reply!!! but had to add a 2nd >>>>> line poke to bring it full circle to politcal garbage. >>>>> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

>>>>> news:1XfPd.2211$H05.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>>>>> Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some >>>>>> sort of auto immune disease too. Obviously >>>>>> its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. >>>>>> — >>>>>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>>>>> "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

>>>>>> news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… >>>>>>>I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years >>>>>>>before I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood >>>>>>>for this study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. >>>>>>> I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to >>>>>>> properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial >>>>>>> in nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS >>>>>>> Society >>>>>>> It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this >>>>>>> researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — >>>>>>> Canada — Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, >>>>>>> http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm >>>>>>> Genetic susceptibility >>>>>>> The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George >>>>>>> Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of >>>>>>> British Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important >>>>>>> factor in the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as >>>>>>> being the largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the >>>>>>> world. >>>>>>> The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS >>>>>>> Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to >>>>>>> scientists’ understanding of MS and are enabling researchers to >>>>>>> tackle totally new areas such as environmental factors linked with >>>>>>> genetic susceptibility. >>>>>>> — >>>>>>> Larry >>>>>>> Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it >>>>>>> written using voice recognition software

Response:

"abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

news:NhVPd.12302$vK5.4459@twister.nyroc.rr.com…

Its spelled "hey". I wouldnt have a clue how I got MS. Nor do you, nor does anyone. The most we can have are deep suspisions. I wouldnt doubt I got it from one of the dozens of vaccinations Ive had. My shot record looks like a small book. Or maybe I got it from a goldfish I swallowed in college; who knows? Seriously, whats your honest best guess? Mine is immune-disfunction in conjuntion with exposure to mycoplasma fermentans incognitus, as it, and MS, are indistinguishable. Indistinguishable in those who are succeptable to it. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Quaecomque sunt vera —- > "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com

> news:7OCdnX1V0JwNho3fRVn-pQ@gbronline.com… >> Abdi, damn youre stupid. There already exists bombs that can cause MS. >> Biological warfare bombs. Developed by several nations. All unrelated. >> I suggest you look into the USSRs creation of it. The scientist bragged >> about it on 60 Minutes… AND the Federation of American Scientists had >> his research up on their website for a while. Its all FACT. The DOD had >> the Federation pull the studies from their websites, they recalled all >> the books nationwide that had mention of the scientists research in it, >> and payed him a handsome sum to defect to the US. All Fact. You know >> nothing abdi, youre just paranoid… for good reason I suppose. If you >> actually do have MS. >> Rob >> (If you dont believe me, simply go to their website, find out who the >> director is, and email him. Simple right? He’ll tell ya. If he lies, >> let me know. I can fix that.) >> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

>> news:ARpPd.5739$nC5.348@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>> Jamie, you are wrong, I was trying to help cure MS. The thing is, most >>> of the rednecks (Pentagon and … ) will >>> think if I say government has no interest , will think the opposite and >>> they may fund some research on brain disorders. So its good ,besides >>> that they may want to create a bomb that causes MS. They may think its >>> patriotic too. >>> — >>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>> "Jamie" <jamievickersnos…@rogers.com

>>> news:JbydnWDAhJa5D5DfRVn-tQ@rogers.com… >>>> wow adbi almost made a FULL on topic reply!!! but had to add a 2nd line >>>> poke to bring it full circle to politcal garbage. >>>> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

>>>> news:1XfPd.2211$H05.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>>>> Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some >>>>> sort of auto immune disease too. Obviously >>>>> its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. >>>>> — >>>>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>>>> "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

>>>>> news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… >>>>>>I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years >>>>>>before I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood >>>>>>for this study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. >>>>>> I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to >>>>>> properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial >>>>>> in nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS >>>>>> Society >>>>>> It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this >>>>>> researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — >>>>>> Canada — Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, >>>>>> http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm >>>>>> Genetic susceptibility >>>>>> The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George >>>>>> Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of >>>>>> British Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important >>>>>> factor in the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as >>>>>> being the largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the >>>>>> world. >>>>>> The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS >>>>>> Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to >>>>>> scientists’ understanding of MS and are enabling researchers to >>>>>> tackle totally new areas such as environmental factors linked with >>>>>> genetic susceptibility. >>>>>> — >>>>>> Larry >>>>>> Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it >>>>>> written using voice recognition software

Response:

Hay Rob, you think the asses of evil have used these bombs on you? — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "Rob Duncan" <robdun…@gbronline.com

news:7OCdnX1V0JwNho3fRVn-pQ@gbronline.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Abdi, damn youre stupid. There already exists bombs that can cause MS. > Biological warfare bombs. Developed by several nations. All unrelated. > I suggest you look into the USSRs creation of it. The scientist bragged > about it on 60 Minutes… AND the Federation of American Scientists had > his research up on their website for a while. Its all FACT. The DOD had > the Federation pull the studies from their websites, they recalled all the > books nationwide that had mention of the scientists research in it, and > payed him a handsome sum to defect to the US. All Fact. You know nothing > abdi, youre just paranoid… for good reason I suppose. If you actually > do have MS. > Rob > (If you dont believe me, simply go to their website, find out who the > director is, and email him. Simple right? He’ll tell ya. If he lies, > let me know. I can fix that.) > "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

> news:ARpPd.5739$nC5.348@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >> Jamie, you are wrong, I was trying to help cure MS. The thing is, most of >> the rednecks (Pentagon and … ) will >> think if I say government has no interest , will think the opposite and >> they may fund some research on brain disorders. So its good ,besides >> that they may want to create a bomb that causes MS. They may think its >> patriotic too. >> — >> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >> "Jamie" <jamievickersnos…@rogers.com

>> news:JbydnWDAhJa5D5DfRVn-tQ@rogers.com… >>> wow adbi almost made a FULL on topic reply!!! but had to add a 2nd line >>> poke to bring it full circle to politcal garbage. >>> "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

>>> news:1XfPd.2211$H05.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >>>> Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some >>>> sort of auto immune disease too. Obviously >>>> its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. >>>> — >>>> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >>>> "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

>>>> news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… >>>>>I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years >>>>>before I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood >>>>>for this study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. >>>>> I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to >>>>> properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial in >>>>> nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS >>>>> Society >>>>> It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this >>>>> researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — >>>>> Canada — Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, >>>>> http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm >>>>> Genetic susceptibility >>>>> The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George >>>>> Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of >>>>> British Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important >>>>> factor in the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as >>>>> being the largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the >>>>> world. >>>>> The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS >>>>> Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to >>>>> scientists’ understanding of MS and are enabling researchers to tackle >>>>> totally new areas such as environmental factors linked with genetic >>>>> susceptibility. >>>>> — >>>>> Larry >>>>> Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it >>>>> written using voice recognition software

Response:

Now youre calling him a liar? Unbelievable. Abdi, youre an idiot. Go back to Iran, please. They need you. Rob "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

news:aeKPd.8274$H05.5238@twister.nyroc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just for the record all these are lies. Its not true. My only point has > always, ALWAYS been to make Americans live by the standards that they > must. Its very VERY stupid, when American troops are being held to the > standards of a terrorist. Its stupid. > — > Quaecomque sunt vera —- > "Chuck" <ChuckM…@aol.com

> news:1108291548.718626.106730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com… >> Sadly, Abdi is an ignorant, hateful human being who has said such >> glorious things as "rednecks are comparable to terrorists sawing off >> heads, Nazi’s…. The USA uses civilians as target practice in >> Afghanistan, Bin Laden is the best thing that ever happened to the >> USA…" Others who shoulds know better, saying "Abdi is ok in my book" >> is just as tragic. >> Chuck

Response:

"abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

news:2KqPd.5743$nC5.1349@twister.nyroc.rr.com…

So, you wouldnt be offended if people referred to you as a rag-head, cammel jockey, sand-nigger, etc.? I think you would. Youre a dumbfuck because you insult broad groups of people with a slur thats reserved for them and them alone to use. Just like a black guy can call his buddies nigger all day long, and a white would never use it, you need to engage that damaged brain of yours and figure out why people are insulted when YOU use it. A white would never use that term, (the N-word) even in jest, yet you use your slur, intenionally, to hurt and insult people. You are indeed the result Arab-Camel copulation. During the "wrong" time of month. Are you begining to understand why people, even if they may agree with what you have to say… dont like you? Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Quaecomque sunt vera —- > "rose" <rosedawn_sc…@yahoo.com

> news:1108226130.290511.5420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… >> abdi wrote: >>> Jamie, you are wrong, I was trying to help cure MS. The thing is, >> most of >>> the rednecks (Pentagon and … ) will >> abdi, dammit, you know something, i’ve never disliked you personally. >> you’re a person with M.S. who mainly sticks to the political threads >> and occasionally posts something re M.S. — so what, there are other >> newsgroup regulars with similar posting patterns. i’ve never held it >> agaist you. >> BUT!!! there you go again with the ‘redneck’ jibe. you’ve been told >> before that it’s an insulting term, akin to referring to someone as >> ‘white trash,’ and that it absolutely, positively does NOT describe ANY >> political figure — one of the keys to being a modern american >> ‘redneck’ is being white and WORKING CLASS. >> you don’t insult ‘the pentagon and…’ by using this bigoted term; >> instead you insult a bunch of folks you don’t know and have never met, >> some of whom have M.S. and read the newsgroup, who struggle with the >> same issues of disease, disability, and money [or lack thereof] that >> you do. >> if you absolutely MUST be insulting, why not use a term like ‘fatcats’ >> — more accurate, less broad, no racist overtones. >> unless you’ve got a hate on for people who keep their christmas lights >> up on the front porch all year long and know all the words to every old >> bocephus song, you’re using the term incorrectly, and insulting large >> groups of people for no other reason than to stir up the cauldron. >> rose, cali redneck and coal miner’s granddaughter [for real!]

Response:

wow adbi almost made a FULL on topic reply!!! but had to add a 2nd line poke to bring it full circle to politcal garbage. "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

news:1XfPd.2211$H05.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some sort > of auto immune disease too. Obviously > its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. > — > Quaecomque sunt vera —- > "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

> news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… >>I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years before >>I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood for this >>study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. >> I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to >> properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial in >> nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS Society >> It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this >> researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — Canada — >> Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, >> http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm >> Genetic susceptibility >> The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George >> Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of British >> Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important factor in >> the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as being the >> largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the world. >> The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS >> Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to >> scientists’ understanding of MS and are enabling researchers to tackle >> totally new areas such as environmental factors linked with genetic >> susceptibility. >> — >> Larry >> Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it >> written using voice recognition software

Response:

Sadly, Abdi is an ignorant, hateful human being who has said such glorious things as "rednecks are comparable to terrorists sawing off heads, Nazi’s…. The USA uses civilians as target practice in Afghanistan, Bin Laden is the best thing that ever happened to the USA…" Others who shoulds know better, saying "Abdi is ok in my book" is just as tragic. Chuck

Response:

abdi wrote:

something

tell

when i was growing up in DC, our next-door neighbors were german jewish immigrants, both parents survivors of death camps. they still knew people in germany, but mrs. D had never been back since the liberation. mr. D thought it would be a good idea, that they could visit surviving friends, but his wife was very much against it, and used to talk about it with my ma. mr. D said he thought if they went back for the visit, his wife would realize that it wasn’t right to hate an entire country, or the land on which horrible things had been done to them, or people who were not even born yet when the horrible things happened. he finally convinced her to make the trip, and when she got back she told us all she was glad they’d gone; leo was right; she realized that if she hated people who had nothing but ethnicity in common with the real torturers then she’d be stuck in hate and bitterness forever, and now she felt truly free. i’ve often wished more folks were that wise.

care [...]

ok, so by your logic, if i suddenly started using the term ‘ragheads’ in every single post, it would be all good, so long as i explained i wasn’t dissing muslims, just a ‘mind set.’ wouldn’t matter if i ‘accidentally’ offended a few people, becauause they’re too dumb to realize that when i say ‘f-ing towel heads,’ i’m not talking about muslims or arabs, but only about mental attitudes. schyeah! i don’t think so. i think you really just want to be inflammatory; otherwise you’d come up with other ways to indicate your displeasure that don’t involve insulting millions of working class people with a single broad stroke. so flame on, just don’t expect any of us white trash rednecks to bother reading between the insults to try to figure out what the hell you’re ‘really’ trying to say. redneck rose

Response:

yo chuck, am i one of the ‘others who should know better?’ don’t want to be paranoid, but i haven’t seen anyone say that, so i wonder. what i said was that abdi has M.S. and posts mainly in the political threads, with an occasional M.S.-related post, and that there are other people reading the NG who follow a similar pattern, and THAT’s ok with me, even tho my posting style is the opposite — mostly M.S. related stuff, just the occasional visit to the political threads. so i might have missed some ‘abdi is ok by me’ statements. i never had a personal dislike for him, maybe partly because i’ve missed some of his posts — i reckon he’s got more ‘right’ to be here posting OT, than someone like ironman, who doesn’t have MS. himself, but always posts about M.S. — i won’t say ‘on topic,’ because it always comes back to that SINGLE topic with tom. i still don’t dislike him personally, because i dont’ knw him personally. some folks are good people IRL, but raving jerks online, no way to sort them out unless you know the people involved. i definitely disagree that this is a tragic attitude to have, if the ref was about me — if not, ignore me, i’m just being suspicious. while he still might be an ok person IRL, online he’s just looking like a deliberate flamer at this point, and there’s no reasoning with people who are insulting and racist because they WANT to be, rather than due to ignorance or sloppy use of language. working class rose

Response:

Just for the record all these are lies. Its not true. My only point has always, ALWAYS been to make Americans live by the standards that they must. Its very VERY stupid, when American troops are being held to the standards of a terrorist. Its stupid. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "Chuck" <ChuckM…@aol.com

news:1108291548.718626.106730@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

abdi wrote:

most of

abdi, dammit, you know something, i’ve never disliked you personally. you’re a person with M.S. who mainly sticks to the political threads and occasionally posts something re M.S. — so what, there are other newsgroup regulars with similar posting patterns. i’ve never held it agaist you. BUT!!! there you go again with the ‘redneck’ jibe. you’ve been told before that it’s an insulting term, akin to referring to someone as ‘white trash,’ and that it absolutely, positively does NOT describe ANY political figure — one of the keys to being a modern american ‘redneck’ is being white and WORKING CLASS. you don’t insult ‘the pentagon and…’ by using this bigoted term; instead you insult a bunch of folks you don’t know and have never met, some of whom have M.S. and read the newsgroup, who struggle with the same issues of disease, disability, and money [or lack thereof] that you do. if you absolutely MUST be insulting, why not use a term like ‘fatcats’ — more accurate, less broad, no racist overtones. unless you’ve got a hate on for people who keep their christmas lights up on the front porch all year long and know all the words to every old bocephus song, you’re using the term incorrectly, and insulting large groups of people for no other reason than to stir up the cauldron. rose, cali redneck and coal miner’s granddaughter [for real!]

Response:

Actually for a while I tried not to use the term red neck. But something about it makes me go back. I realize some Germans were not NAZI, but tell that to German Jews. Essentially almost everyone turned on them and to them the whole nation was NAZI. I realize some red necks did not take pleasure in shock and awe but most did, its a mental attitude when you do not care about your fellow human beings, you buy all the dehumanization that you are spoon fed in State of Union. A guy like Rumsfeld comes and bamboozles you with words like "unknowable" and you think you are too stupid to comprehend. Its a mind set. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "rose" <rosedawn_sc…@yahoo.com

news:1108226130.290511.5420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

I am the first person in my family on both sides who has diabetes and the first to have MS. The only one who is close (at least by auto-immune disease) is my father who has Chron’s disease. Jenni

Response:

Good catch Jamie, we will make you pay! My family has issues, me more so than the rest. Oldest brother has mild torrets syndrome, another one deals with depression, Chuck, was schizophrenic and died of cancer, younger brother is dyslexic and a mother that is depressed and doesn’t know about it and is unwilling to accept it and then you have the whole dysfunctional large family thing going. Too many issues, too many issues. No wonder I’m like I am. One none neurological commonality, high blood pressure. I did have and Uncle that was diagnosed with "sleeping disease" needless to say he slept a lot. Probably in today’s world he would’ve been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. He had visioned problems speech, cognitive issues almost more of a mental handicap though. It resembled more of a stroke than anything. But it started at a young age and slowly progressed. Top that, good luck, Bob

Response:

Jamie, you are wrong, I was trying to help cure MS. The thing is, most of the rednecks (Pentagon and … ) will think if I say government has no interest , will think the opposite and they may fund some research on brain disorders. So its good ,besides that they may want to create a bomb that causes MS. They may think its patriotic too. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "Jamie" <jamievickersnos…@rogers.com

news:JbydnWDAhJa5D5DfRVn-tQ@rogers.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> wow adbi almost made a FULL on topic reply!!! but had to add a 2nd line > poke to bring it full circle to politcal garbage. > "abdi" <a…@yahoo.com

> news:1XfPd.2211$H05.745@twister.nyroc.rr.com… >> Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some sort >> of auto immune disease too. Obviously >> its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. >> — >> Quaecomque sunt vera —- >> "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

>> news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… >>>I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years >>>before I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood for >>>this study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. >>> I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to >>> properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial in >>> nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS Society >>> It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this >>> researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — Canada — >>> Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, >>> http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm >>> Genetic susceptibility >>> The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George >>> Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of British >>> Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important factor in >>> the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as being the >>> largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the world. >>> The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS >>> Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to >>> scientists’ understanding of MS and are enabling researchers to tackle >>> totally new areas such as environmental factors linked with genetic >>> susceptibility. >>> — >>> Larry >>> Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it >>> written using voice recognition software

Response:

I’m not surprised that genetic succeptibility has been found a possibility… my grandfather had MS, now me. I don’t believe that isn’t a factor. Jeff — MSInformation: Busting Myths and Bringing Hope. Free monthly electronic newsletter. Subscribe at: http://www.m-sinfo.org/newslettersubscribe.html Also a website with a discussion board. http://www.m-sinfo.org

Response:

well, I’m the only one in my family with anythign like this. The only thing my family tends to get is cancer (my dads side of the family) and heart problems (moms side). No one has any diseases whatsoever. So while genetics surely play some sort of role, I don’t think you can count it as a big role. Jen "Jeff Boman" <cr…@bigfootz.com

news:ovap011he8f7bkj9he7uqc8rlvddf0ef7p@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

Jennifer wrote:

thing

heart

genetics

big role. same here, jen. absolutely nothing auto-immune OR neuro-degenerative. my oldest sis was dx’d with rheumatoid arthritis, but she was over 50, and had not been dx’d when i got my M.S. diagnosis. something my gynecologist said to me not long ago — when my ma was pregnant, she took a substance called DES, an anti-miscarriage agent. the docs didn’t find out till years later that the babies born to women who took DES had lots of problems. then they figured it would all stop with those people — they originally thought it only affected female children too, thus the term ‘DES daughters.’ come to find out now that tam is of child-bearing age, it did NOT stop with the ‘DES Daughters’ — the ‘DES sons’ also had changes, and it continued with our kids — now they talk about ‘DES grand-daughters.’ anway, this stuff apparently does somethig that actually tweaks your DNA, which is why the problems continue thru the generations. the OB/GYN likened it to my being diagnosed with M.S. — nobody in the family ever had it, but once it shows up in the family, everyone else’s risk is increased. he said i had a very tiny chance of getting breast cancer — logically, it should not happen — but logically, i should not have gotten M.S. either. i have n oidea if the genetic changes caused by the DES played any part whatsoever in the M.S. thing, but i remember what the doc said — maybe nobody in your family, going back generations, has ever had problem X, Y, or Z, but the first time it shows up in anyone, bingo-bango, you’ve got genetic susceptibility right there. the folks in my family tend to get ‘lifestyle diseases’ — heart attacks and such mainly. i’ve never had the problems everyone else in my family has, instead i get something nobody else gets! my parents, grandparents, sisters, everyone hsa high BP, high cholesterol, all that, and i’ve got none of it. i don’t have a clue why — i haven’t lived a healthier lifestyle than the rest; i’ve had periods of heavy drinking, cigarette smoking, and poor diet, but my BP has been 110/70 for the last decade [it was lower than that prior], my total cholesterol is double-digit, my heart and lungs are fine — i’ve just got this damn disease that popped up out of nowhere! LOL, at least i’ve got a strong constitution, i guess — must have, or i’d have the stress/booze/fried food problems that the rest of the family has. for folks who do have relatives who also have M.S., I’m sure the connection looks much stronger. for those of us who are ‘the first in the family,’ it can be confusing. the longer i live with M.S., the more i lean toward the different sub-types/ different causes/different treatments hypothesis. no scientific knowledge, just thinking about how different the disease courses are and my own personal experience. rose

Response:

I was under the impression that according to the UBC results, if your DNA had one of 60 variations of gene combinations, you were more likely to be able to get the disease compared to people without those genes combinations. — Larry Rather than building character, adversity tends to reveal it written using voice recognition software "Jeff Boman" <cr…@bigfootz.com

news:ovap011he8f7bkj9he7uqc8rlvddf0ef7p@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:42:36 GMT, "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

wrote:

I wonder then if my family has that genetic combination… at least my immediate fanily from my grandfather on. Jeff — MSInformation: Busting Myths and Bringing Hope. Free monthly electronic newsletter. Subscribe at: http://www.m-sinfo.org/newslettersubscribe.html Also a website with a discussion board. http://www.m-sinfo.org

Response:

Thanks for this sad confirmation. Most people in our family has some sort of auto immune disease too. Obviously its not the government job to find the gene that causes it. — Quaecomque sunt vera —- "white.lynx" <white.l…@shaw.ca

news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

In <news:L4zOd.345904$6l.151259@pd7tw2no

white.lynx said:

Thanks for keeping watch over their site, Larry. I’ve met Dr. Sadovnick, and my parents and I (mum has MS and dad has some sort of autoimmune porphyria) have been volunteer donors for her studies for a decade now (still haven’t convinced my little bro to donate yet. <grrr

I wasn’t aware until just now that she’d actually concluded any of the several avenues of inquiry involved in this research. I’d like to see – now that she’s determined there *is* a genetic factor, what comes of the search for what genes (or combination of genes) are involved. I know a molecular biologist at UBC doing cancer research, and she’s been rather nice about decoding some of the genetics/cell-signaling language for me. With her help, I could probably make some sense of Dr. Sadovnick’s papers and their abstracts. ((U)) M – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

I remember everyone in my family including myself (about five years before I develop my first MS symptom) volunteering a sample our blood for this study when my older brother was diagnosed with MS. I like the term genetic susceptibility because I had no idea how to properly pronounce that, while it is not hereditary, it is familial in nature. This is also from the same web site of the Canadian MS Society It would probably be about 15 years now since I first heard of this researcher at the University of British Columbia, Vancouver — Canada — Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, http://www.mssociety.ca/en/research/medmmo-hepatitisB-sep04.htm Genetic susceptibility The Canadian Study of Genetic Susceptibility in MS led by Dr. George Ebers, Oxford University, and Dr. Dessa Sadovnick, University of British Columbia, has shown conclusively that genes are an important factor in the development of MS. The Canadian study is recognized as being the largest and most comprehensive study of its kind in the world. The first three phases of this study, entirely funded by the MS Scientific Research Foundation, have contributed enormously to scientists

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

Chrons and external events

Question:

I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events …and the problem is?

This looks like the beginning of a post that I might of started. I have certainly had this problem over the years. For the record I have chron’s disease. Just before the event I would develop severe pain, or the big "D", or just be too exhausted to attend the event. I have traveled 350 miles to a wedding and the next morning I could not get up to go to the actual ceremony. Later in the day I would be able to make it to the reception. Paul

Response:

I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events

Response:

I know this is a late post but the point is…. Definition of "extended family events" – a most painful event in which one must endure incessant ramblings of insipid individuals only related by marriage who you would not otherwise choose to associate with. Definition of Religious events – worse then "extended family events". Dont’ get me wrong, I’m not an atheist or anything. I just think religion is like golf. As the saying goes – golf is a great way to screw up a nice walk. And religion is a great way to screw up one’s spirituality. So face the facts. Your symptoms are psyco-somatic. I would give anything to come up with a good excuse to avoid those stupid family events. Unfortunately I can’t quite seem to get my UC to act up when I really need it. But you have succeeded where I have failed. I salute you! I recommend watching Annie Hall, there’s a good scene that exemplifies this very well, in case you don’t quite catch my drift. Anyway, once you face the fact that you really hate these events you will feel much better about yourself. regards, Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events …and the problem is? This looks like the beginning of a post that I might of started. I have certainly had this problem over the years. For the record I have chron’s disease. Just before the event I would develop severe pain, or the big "D", or just be too exhausted to attend the event. I have traveled 350 miles to a wedding and the next morning I could not get up to go to the actual ceremony. Later in the day I would be able to make it to the reception. Paul

Response:

I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events …and the problem is?

Response:

I know just what you mean about events that are exciting just wear you out thinking about them/getting ready. Your whole body and nervous system are connected. My father had horrible bleeding ulcers and they would act up over happy or unhappy events. He was told all his life "it’s all in your mind". The poor dear. His life was not easy. Come to find out, it’s a parasite called H. Pylori that couses ulcers. A germ. A bug. I think ALOT of intestine problems will be discovered that it’s germs of some sort.

I am glad to know that I am not crazy, just a chronie. Paul

Response:

If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours?

You’re not crazy, but you’ve fallen into a vicious circle: anxiety about an upcoming event triggers the symptom that you’re anxious about, which increases the anxiety…etc. You should talk this over with your doc and start some anti-anxiety meds. You may have to take them only temporarily, until you extinguish that vicious circle. A similar thing happened to me several years ago. Wayne Marsh Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

Response:

I know just what you mean about events that are exciting just wear you out thinking about them/getting ready. Your whole body and nervous system are connected. My father had horrible bleeding ulcers and they would act up over happy or unhappy events. He was told all his life "it’s all in your mind". The poor dear. His life was not easy. Come to find out, it’s a parasite called H. Pylori that couses ulcers. A germ. A bug. I think ALOT of intestine problems will be discovered that it’s germs of some sort.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it possible that the stress of thinking about, and mentally preparing for (and now worrying about what might happen) before these "events" is triggering something" And PS I learned PL/I from Professor Conway – at Cornell Univ. He and another guy, Gries I think, wrote PL/I for IBM. ===== I seem to exhibit a strange set of behaviours. I have Chrons which is relatively well controlled unless I want to do something. I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events and sometimes it is a combination of both. I traveled to my nephews wedding, a days drive, got a good nights sleep but I was not able to get up to go to the actual wedding, I made it to the reception later. I have trouble getting to church, sometimes I will shave, shower, put on my Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, and then I collapse, I am just too exhausted to go to the actual meeting. If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours. I think that I become so afraid that my body will bive out on my that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any similar experiences, possible solutions, etc would be appreciatted. It would be nice just to know that I not alone in this. Thanx – Paul PS: I have not been posting much, I have been doing some computer programming for the Church, it is the first time in over a decade that I have been able to program in my favourite language (PL/1) and it has been a great joy and diversion. Sometimes I have done stretches as long as fourty hours. It is kind of like term project time back in University. I am getting my sleep schedule back to normal and still programming but alittle more reasonably. It is sure nice to feel useful.

This is off topic but Cornel University also produced a PL/1 complier and run-time environment for volume student use in the 70’s. The IB compiler was not the fastest in the world I understand.

Response:

Have you tried taking some lomotil or codiene before you go to bed on nights before you have morning plans? Brian I seem to exhibit a strange set of behaviours. I have Chrons which is relatively well controlled unless I want to do something. I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events and sometimes it is a combination of both. I traveled to my nephews wedding, a days drive, got a good nights sleep but I was not able to get up to go to the actual wedding, I made it to the reception later. I have trouble getting to church, sometimes I will shave, shower, put on my Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, and then I collapse, I am just too exhausted to go to the actual meeting. If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours. I think that I become so afraid that my body will bive out on my that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any similar experiences, possible solutions, etc would be appreciatted. It would be nice just to know that I not alone in this. Thanx – Paul PS: I have not been posting much, I have been doing some computer programming for the Church, it is the first time in over a decade that I have been able to program in my favourite language (PL/1) and it has been a great joy and diversion. Sometimes I have done stretches as long as fourty hours. It is kind of like term project time back in University. I am getting my sleep schedule back to normal and still programming but alittle more reasonably. It is sure nice to feel useful.

Response:

Is it possible that the stress of thinking about, and mentally preparing for (and now worrying about what might happen) before these "events" is triggering something" And PS I learned PL/I from Professor Conway – at Cornell Univ. He and another guy, Gries I think, wrote PL/I for IBM. =====

I seem to exhibit a strange set of behaviours. I have Chrons which is relatively well controlled unless I want to do something. I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events and sometimes it is a combination of both. I traveled to my nephews wedding, a days drive, got a good nights sleep but I was not able to get up to go to the actual wedding, I made it to the reception later. I have trouble getting to church, sometimes I will shave, shower, put on my Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, and then I collapse, I am just too exhausted to go to the actual meeting. If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours. I think that I become so afraid that my body will bive out on my that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any similar experiences, possible solutions, etc would be appreciatted. It would be nice just to know that I not alone in this. Thanx – Paul PS: I have not been posting much, I have been doing some computer programming for the Church, it is the first time in over a decade that I have been able to program in my favourite language (PL/1) and it has been a great joy and diversion. Sometimes I have done stretches as long as fourty hours. It is kind of like term project time back in University. I am getting my sleep schedule back to normal and still programming but alittle more reasonably. It is sure nice to feel useful.

Response:

Paul, I responded to your email! UM MOM Susan

I seem to exhibit a strange set of behaviours. I have Chrons which is relatively well controlled unless I want to do something. I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events and sometimes it is a combination of both. I traveled to my nephews wedding, a days drive, got a good nights sleep but I was not able to get up to go to the actual wedding, I made it to the reception later. I have trouble getting to church, sometimes I will shave, shower, put on my Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, and then I collapse, I am just too exhausted to go to the actual meeting. If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours. I think that I become so afraid that my body will bive out on my that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any similar experiences, possible solutions, etc would be appreciatted. It would be nice just to know that I not alone in this. Thanx – Paul PS: I have not been posting much, I have been doing some computer programming for the Church, it is the first time in over a decade that I have been able to program in my favourite language (PL/1) and it has been a great joy and diversion. Sometimes I have done stretches as long as fourty hours. It is kind of like term project time back in University. I am getting my sleep schedule back to normal and still programming but alittle more reasonably. It is sure nice to feel useful.

Response:

This happens quite a lot with me as well. Before I went out on disability, there were a few times when I would arrive at work so exhausted that I literally had to lie down in my office for an hour before gaining the strength to just go back home… The worst though were the times when the big "D" would hit while commuting! Not a barrel of laughs when you have an open fistula tract which allows everything to pass unabated…. ergh!!!! Anyway, the point of my response was not just to gross everyone out with ugly details but to let you know that this is QUITE NORMAL for some of us. What I do now is to let anyone know that my attendance / participation is always up for grabs. When I do have to meet someone else’s schedule exactly, I plan far in advance and at times, modify sleep and eating times in order to ensure that I will be able to get from point a to point b and complete whatever it is… For example, I take naps in order to attend evening functions and if I need to fly somewhere, I do NOT eat for eight hours prior to flying. Just find what works for you and try not to worry about the perceptions of others. Tricky to do in real life and real time with real people but I have found that when I involve others in explaining my constraints, they are quite understanding and try to make whatever adjustments might be necessary. Good luck to you!! ~Lisa S. Quinn I seem to exhibit a strange set of behaviours. I have Chrons which is relatively well controlled unless I want to do something. I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events and sometimes it is a combination of both. I traveled to my nephews wedding, a days drive, got a good nights sleep but I was not able to get up to go to the actual wedding, I made it to the reception later. I have trouble getting to church, sometimes I will shave, shower, put on my Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, and then I collapse, I am just too exhausted to go to the actual meeting. If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours. I think that I become so afraid that my body will bive out on my that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any similar experiences, possible solutions, etc would be appreciatted. It would be nice just to know that I not alone in this. Thanx – Paul PS: I have not been posting much, I have been doing some computer programming for the Church, it is the first time in over a decade that I have been able to program in my favourite language (PL/1) and it has been a great joy and diversion. Sometimes I have done stretches as long as fourty hours. It is kind of like term project time back in University. I am getting my sleep schedule back to normal and still programming but alittle more reasonably. It is sure nice to feel useful.

Response:

I seem to exhibit a strange set of behaviours. I have Chrons which is relatively well controlled unless I want to do something. I have experienced acute attacks which have caused me to miss many important extended family events as well as religious events and sometimes it is a combination of both. I traveled to my nephews wedding, a days drive, got a good nights sleep but I was not able to get up to go to the actual wedding, I made it to the reception later. I have trouble getting to church, sometimes I will shave, shower, put on my Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, and then I collapse, I am just too exhausted to go to the actual meeting. If there is nothing special coming up I seem to do not too badly but as special events approach, my body gives out on me. Am I going crazy or do others experience similar behaviours. I think that I become so afraid that my body will bive out on my that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Any similar experiences, possible solutions, etc would be appreciatted. It would be nice just to know that I not alone in this. Thanx – Paul PS: I have not been posting much, I have been doing some computer programming for the Church, it is the first time in over a decade that I have been able to program in my favourite language (PL/1) and it has been a great joy and diversion. Sometimes I have done stretches as long as fourty hours. It is kind of like term project time back in University. I am getting my sleep schedule back to normal and still programming but alittle more reasonably. It is sure nice to feel useful.

Response:

Paul, That’s great that you have a meaningful project to work on! I have to say though, with forty hour stretches why are you surprised that you hit an occasional energy wall? Your body, and possibly your mind are trying to tell you to slow down a bit. I tried to shovel the driveway the other day (did half of it), and then went grocery shopping. My husband told me it would be too much, he was right! I layed on the couch all evening while he took care of our 2 year old. Take care and take it easy, Nina

Response:

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

Angry at God

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have 2 problems. 1) You are catholic 2) You blame God instead of satan. And you have one problem: Instead of offering any advice to this guy, you use it as another opportunity to advance your own personal agenda. Shame on you! For telling the truth? LOL!!! No–for not heeding the Bible you claim to so dearly love. Read Mark 9:38-31, and then think about why you hate other Christians so much. Maybe you should read the part about bearing false witness. First of all you are catholic, not Christian.

The word "Christian" belings to the Catholic Church Danny. It existed long before whatever sect you came from appeared. BAM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m angry at God and am wondering if anyone out there has been through something similar? Why am I angry? Well, I’ve just about had enough. My Dad passed away when I was 23, my brother passed away about a year and a half ago, I have had 3 hernia operations and my hernia is back, diagnosed with Chron’s disease, went through bankruptcy after the dot com bomb, my Mom is pretty close to legally blind and can’t drive, I’m 35 and still not married. My cat just got hit by a car a few days ago. I could go on and on. Am I cursed? Does God hate me? It honestly feels like he likes to lead me on through life making me think I’m going somewhere and right when I think I’m making progress he stabs me with a knife and moves the knife around to make it worse. Am I his little stress relief toy? What’s the deal? Why does it seem that most people are going through life with little or no problems, yet I get dumped on all of the time. Why should I expect to have any kind of relationship with God when I have been handed all of this? After my cat got hit, I had it out with God and skipped mass. Did that really have to happen? Did he have to get hit by a car in front of my house? What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I can hear the "perfect people" out there gasping, but I don’t care. This is the way it is and I’m telling God I’ve had it. I’m sick of the BS. I’ve thought about going to confession, but I feel God owes me an apology. Yes, I do need to confess, but what about God apologizing to me? Too much to ask for? What’s the point in going to confession when I am holding a grudge against God? Jesus says to pray for those who persecute you… well, does this mean I should pray for God? Seems kind of backwards to me. Anyway, these are my thoughts. I can get over the tragedies, but the main problem I’m having is that I hold bittereness, resentment and anger towards God and I don’t see how to get past it. It’s kind of like the feeling you have when a person does wrong to you over and over to the point where you can’t have a relationship with that person anymore. Pretty much the same feeling. I guess what I need to do is pray to God and tell him how I feel and go from there. Problem is I’m so bitter I can hardly muster up the energy to talk to him. Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace?

The pain in our lives is necessary for growth. Jesus did not come to take away the pain and suffering in our lives. He made that clear. It is a part of each and every one of our lives. You are no different from anyone else. Everyone has, or will, experience this much difficulty and more. The question is what will you do with it? You will notice many people who have been through difficult times have a maturity and strength of spirit about them. Others are bitter and angry. Your pain can strengthen you and bring you closer to God, or it can just make you bitter and angry. It can strengthen your spirit or destroy it. In the end it will all be for the best if you allow it, and use it to your advantage.

Response:

The pain in our lives is necessary for growth. Jesus did not come to take away the pain and suffering in our lives. He made that clear. It is a part of each and every one of our lives. You are no different from anyone else. Everyone has, or will, experience this much difficulty and more.

Not everyone. There are people out there that enjoy excellent health and prosperity, have all the sex they can handle, laugh all the time and have fun. Donald Trump comes to mind as an extreme example. Do you ever see him whining about how God has screwed him over? Nope. Chuck Yeager, althought not a multi-millionaire, stated a number of times in his autobiography about how life has been great fun for him, one glorious adventure after another, success piled on top of success. The question is what will you do with it? You will notice many people who have been through difficult times have a maturity and strength of spirit about them. Others are bitter and angry. Your pain can strengthen you and bring you closer to God, or it can just make you bitter and angry. It can strengthen your spirit or destroy it. In the end it will all be for the best if you allow it, and use it to your advantage.

Yeah, bring on pain, poverty, and misery. What a great growth experience it is!

Response:

Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace? It’s no different than being angry at your father.

One might believe that if they were completely stupid as that is the worst analogy to explain gods love or what ever you call it. God is all powerful and could have prevented your misfortunes, so there is no reason *not* to "blame" God for them.

"Could have prevented" is incompatible with gods love. Your earthly father would help to prevent your misfortunes and keep you from harms way because he loves you. Perhaps your earthly father is some sort of self centered tyrant that doesn’t On the other hand, you have to also accept that God is all good and would not allow anything to happen to you unless it was ultimately for the good.

Hahaha, a baby born with AIDS in a starving country is for the good folks, and so is dying at age 3 by getting hit by a truck. You know BAM, you are truly an idiot. Nothing personal. Gods love If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT) Hank

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I’d suggest you break out your Bible and check out the book of Job. -Tony God wants to torture you because He loves you. Don’t you see? The more he tortures you the more he loves you. I suggest you break out the bible and use it to burn for keeping you warm. Ooooohhh… We hear from Nicholas II’s butt buddy. Does he keep you warm at night, Hank? -Tony

Now theres an inspiring response from your proverbial christian bigot. Tony, your conditioned thinking is your master, and you are the slave. You will never be able to think outside the box. You are living inside your own mental coffin. ooh thats poetic, well maybe not. Hank

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace? It’s no different than being angry at your father. One might believe that if they were completely stupid as that is the worst analogy to explain gods love or what ever you call it. God is all powerful and could have prevented your misfortunes, so there is no reason *not* to "blame" God for them. "Could have prevented" is incompatible with gods love. Your earthly father would help to prevent your misfortunes and keep you from harms way because he loves you. Perhaps your earthly father is some sort of self centered tyrant that doesn’t On the other hand, you have to also accept that God is all good and would not allow anything to happen to you unless it was ultimately for the good. Hahaha, a baby born with AIDS in a starving country is for the good folks, and so is dying at age 3 by getting hit by a truck. You know BAM, you are truly an idiot. Nothing personal.

I’m not interested in debating with a fool. BAM

Response:

Mental note… asking for advice on usenet newsgroups is a waste of time. ha ha… what an interesting assortment of replies. Funny thing I’ve always wondered about people that hate the Catholic church – why do you spend so much energy in a negative direction? You’re not Catholic, so what are you worried about? Not worried about anything. I just conmtinue to expose the lies of the rcc.

No Danny, you just continue to make an ass of yourself, making comments you would never utter in public. You’re the kind of guy who likes to drive around and give the finger to pedestrians. BAM

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have 2 problems. 1) You are catholic 2) You blame God instead of satan. And you have one problem: Instead of offering any advice to this guy, you use it as another opportunity to advance your own personal agenda. Shame on you! For telling the truth? LOL!!! No–for not heeding the Bible you claim to so dearly love. Read Mark 9:38-31, and then think about why you hate other Christians so much. Maybe you should read the part about bearing false witness. First of all you are catholic, not Christian. Secondly, I do not hate you or any other catholic. You and your ilk, OTOH, certainly hate anything non catholic.

It really is sad when you can be so overcome by ignorance, pride, and hatred that you do not even recognize fellow Christians. Alberich — "It would be atrocious," I said, "to kill a man in order to say bu-ba-baff!" "It would be atrocious," William remarked, "to kill a man even to say ‘Credo in unum Deum.’…"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You have 2 problems. 1) You are catholic 2) You blame God instead of satan. And you have one problem: Instead of offering any advice to this guy, you use it as another opportunity to advance your own personal agenda. Shame on you! For telling the truth? LOL!!! No–for not heeding the Bible you claim to so dearly love. Read Mark 9:38-31, and then think about why you hate other Christians so much. Maybe you should read the part about bearing false witness. First of all you are catholic, not Christian. Secondly, I do not hate you or any other catholic. You and your ilk, OTOH, certainly hate anything non catholic. It really is sad when you can be so overcome by ignorance, pride, and hatred that you do not even recognize fellow Christians. What a hypocrite you are!!! The rcc teaches that anyone outside the rcc cannot be saved. I know you will deny that but it has been proven.

You are right once, but wrong twice. That isn’t the RCC teaching, and it hasn’t been proven. But I do deny it. From the Catholic Catechism: *** 818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers …. All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."[272] 819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"[273] are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."[274] Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,[275] and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."[276] *** So if this is the Church’s official teaching, how are you able to substantiate your argument that anyone outside the RCC cannot be saved? The RCC itself certainly doesn’t teach that! You do not follow Christ, you follow a man made organization, a pope, a dead

I follow Christ and his teachings. The Church is simply a vehicle that makes those available, in much the same fashion as the Bible makes the Word of God available. You do not worship the Bible, but what it teaches; I do not worship the Church, but what it teaches–namely, that Jesus Christ is the risen Lord. You sir/madam are not a Christian, you are a catholic.

Your ignorance on this is profound–Cathlolics (proper noun, capitalized) are Christians. Why you refuse to listen to people that clearly know more about Catholicism than yourself is beyond me. If all you truly want is to remain ignorant and therefore feel unimpeded in your ability to make disparaging comments toward others that are as Christian as you, it is your choice. And you will answer for it, not me. Alberich — "It would be atrocious," I said, "to kill a man in order to say bu-ba-baff!" "It would be atrocious," William remarked, "to kill a man even to say ‘Credo in unum Deum.’…"

Response:

You have 2 problems. 1) You are catholic 2) You blame God instead of satan. And you have one problem: Instead of offering any advice to this guy, you use it as another opportunity to advance your own personal agenda. Shame on you! For telling the truth? LOL!!!

No–for not heeding the Bible you claim to so dearly love. Read Mark 9:38-31, and then think about why you hate other Christians so much. Alberich — "It would be atrocious," I said, "to kill a man in order to say bu-ba-baff!" "It would be atrocious," William remarked, "to kill a man even to say ‘Credo in unum Deum.’…"

Response:

Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace? Well James, I to feel angry at this god, he does not

seem to be around when you want him, ether in ones own personal life or the suffering in the world today ,see my posting GOD/DEVIL john.m

Response:

Mental note… asking for advice on usenet newsgroups is a waste of time. ha ha… what an interesting assortment of replies. Funny thing I’ve always wondered about people that hate the Catholic church – why do you spend so much energy in a negative direction? You’re not Catholic, so what are you worried about? Go about your way and worship whatever you want, or just go back to watching Jerry Springer. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THE PRAYER Satan, grant me your protection. Protect me from the forces of heaven which only seek to do me harm. Satan, grant me your protection. I hate you God with all of my heart and with all of my mind. I hate you Jesus with all of my heart and with all of my mind. I hate you Mary with all of my heart and with all of my mind.

Response:

What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I’d suggest you break out your Bible and check out the book of Job. -Tony

God wants to torture you because He loves you. Don’t you see? The more he tortures you the more he loves you. I suggest you break out the bible and use it to burn for keeping you warm. Hank

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m angry at God and am wondering if anyone out there has been through something similar? Why am I angry? Well, I’ve just about had enough. My Dad passed away when I was 23, my brother passed away about a year and a half ago, I have had 3 hernia operations and my hernia is back, diagnosed with Chron’s disease, went through bankruptcy after the dot com bomb, my Mom is pretty close to legally blind and can’t drive, I’m 35 and still not married. My cat just got hit by a car a few days ago. I could go on and on. Am I cursed? Does God hate me? It honestly feels like he likes to lead me on through life making me think I’m going somewhere and right when I think I’m making progress he stabs me with a knife and moves the knife around to make it worse. Am I his little stress relief toy? What’s the deal? Why does it seem that most people are going through life with little or no problems, yet I get dumped on all of the time. Why should I expect to have any kind of relationship with God when I have been handed all of this? After my cat got hit, I had it out with God and skipped mass. Did that really have to happen? Did he have to get hit by a car in front of my house? What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I can hear the "perfect people" out there gasping, but I don’t care. This is the way it is and I’m telling God I’ve had it. I’m sick of the BS. I’ve thought about going to confession, but I feel God owes me an apology. Yes, I do need to confess, but what about God apologizing to me? Too much to ask for? What’s the point in going to confession when I am holding a grudge against God? Jesus says to pray for those who persecute you… well, does this mean I should pray for God? Seems kind of backwards to me. Anyway, these are my thoughts. I can get over the tragedies, but the main problem I’m having is that I hold bittereness, resentment and anger towards God and I don’t see how to get past it. It’s kind of like the feeling you have when a person does wrong to you over and over to the point where you can’t have a relationship with that person anymore. Pretty much the same feeling. I guess what I need to do is pray to God and tell him how I feel and go from there. Problem is I’m so bitter I can hardly muster up the energy to talk to him. Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace? You have 2 problems. 1) You are catholic 2) You blame God instead of satan.

You have 3 problems 1 you blame catholics 2 you blame satan as though god didn’t have anything to do with satans existence 3 well I can’t think of a 3rd right now. Hank

Response:

Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace?

It’s no different than being angry at your father. God is all powerful and could have prevented your misfortunes, so there is no reason *not* to "blame" God for them. On the other hand, you have to also accept that God is all good and would not allow anything to happen to you unless it was ultimately for the good. Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chastiseth: and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Heb 12:7 Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons. For what son is there whom the father doth not correct? BAM

Response:

What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I’d suggest you break out your Bible and check out the book of Job.

Yup, just hang on a little longer and suddenly you’re going to be rich! You’ll have beautiful women just begging to meet you and you’ll live happily ever after!

Response:

What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I’d suggest you break out your Bible and check out the book of Job. -Tony God wants to torture you because He loves you. Don’t you see? The more he tortures you the more he loves you. I suggest you break out the bible and use it to burn for keeping you warm.

Don’t burn all of it. Bible paper, particularly the ones with thin, crispy pages, make good rolling papers for smoking weed. That’s what you should do instead of worrying about God.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I’d suggest you break out your Bible and check out the book of Job. -Tony God wants to torture you because He loves you. Don’t you see? The more he tortures you the more he loves you. I suggest you break out the bible and use it to burn for keeping you warm.

Ooooohhh… We hear from Nicholas II’s butt buddy. Does he keep you warm at night, Hank? -Tony — For fairly troll free Catholic discussion, join on the web at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/romancatholic/ "Or could it confirm that he’s [Joseph Geloso's] a locution short of a dogma?" – Daniel Hoehr

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m angry at God and am wondering if anyone out there has been through something similar? Why am I angry? Well, I’ve just about had enough. My Dad passed away when I was 23, my brother passed away about a year and a half ago, I have had 3 hernia operations and my hernia is back, diagnosed with Chron’s disease, went through bankruptcy after the dot com bomb, my Mom is pretty close to legally blind and can’t drive, I’m 35 and still not married. My cat just got hit by a car a few days ago. I could go on and on. Am I cursed? Does God hate me? It honestly feels like he likes to lead me on through life making me think I’m going somewhere and right when I think I’m making progress he stabs me with a knife and moves the knife around to make it worse. Am I his little stress relief toy? What’s the deal? Why does it seem that most people are going through life with little or no problems, yet I get dumped on all of the time. Why should I expect to have any kind of relationship with God when I have been handed all of this? After my cat got hit, I had it out with God and skipped mass. Did that really have to happen? Did he have to get hit by a car in front of my house? What is his deal with me? What is he so pissed off at me about that he keeps torturing me? Whatever it is, why can’t he tell me so I can fix it? Why would a "loving God" want to torture me anyway? I can hear the "perfect people" out there gasping, but I don’t care. This is the way it is and I’m telling God I’ve had it. I’m sick of the BS. I’ve thought about going to confession, but I feel God owes me an apology. Yes, I do need to confess, but what about God apologizing to me? Too much to ask for? What’s the point in going to confession when I am holding a grudge against God? Jesus says to pray for those who persecute you… well, does this mean I should pray for God? Seems kind of backwards to me. Anyway, these are my thoughts. I can get over the tragedies, but the main problem I’m having is that I hold bittereness, resentment and anger towards God and I don’t see how to get past it. It’s kind of like the feeling you have when a person does wrong to you over and over to the point where you can’t have a relationship with that person anymore. Pretty much the same feeling. I guess what I need to do is pray to God and tell him how I feel and go from there. Problem is I’m so bitter I can hardly muster up the energy to talk to him. Ok, just had to vent. Has anyone else out there been angry at God? How did you make peace?

I think everybody gets angry, or at least puzzled from time to time. Read Job, read Jonah 4, read Jeremiah 1. Think of different martyrs for the faith. It’s not an easy thing to get yourself square with, but consider this: Perhaps believing in God isn’t a meal ticket to material gain and worldly happiness! Put faith in the Lord, and realize that He probably knows more about what is right for you than you do yourself–a hard thing to admit in a culture as brazenly hedonistic as we have now. You have 2 problems. 1) You are catholic 2) You blame God instead of satan.

And you have one problem: Instead of offering any advice to this guy, you use it as another opportunity to advance your own personal agenda. Shame on you! Alberich — "It would be atrocious," I said, "to kill a man in order to say bu-ba-baff!" "It would be atrocious," William remarked, "to kill a man even to say ‘Credo in unum Deum.’…"

Response:

I’m angry at God and am wondering if anyone out there has been through something similar? Why am I angry? Well, I’ve just about had enough. My Dad passed away when I was 23, my brother passed away about a year and a half ago, I have had 3 hernia operations and my hernia is back, diagnosed with Chron’s disease, went through bankruptcy after the dot com bomb, my Mom is pretty close to legally blind and can’t drive, I’m 35 and still not married. My cat just got hit by a car a few days ago. …

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

Running & joint pain

Question:

I used to be a sprinter but I get pains in my ankles when I run which makes my ankles give way sometimes so I stopped running.

Does anyone run long distances? i recently ran a half marathon. the next week – i was out of remission. worst flare up i’ve had. how many miles are ya’ll averaging? i’m thinking i need to cut back when i’m able to run again. my doctor doesn’t have any other patients with chron’s that run so he doesn’t have much of an idea of what would be safe. Virginia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey… will the glucosamine please keep it down. This is a library ya know! Debs Well good shoes is one of the first places to look. I added a glucosamine and tumeric supplement to my nutritional regimen. The Tumeric acts as a cox2 anti inflammatory and the glucosamine speaks for itself. I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

Response:

I used to run a lot and I was always getting pulled muscles etc. About a year ago I had a terrible problem in my thigh muscle. It got well before I saw the rheumatoligist. Now I don’t push it as I don’t think we/I have anything to prove. I’m not sure what the long term effects are of doing a lot v doing a moderate amount of running but I suspect we wear ourselves out. I have read that too much (strenuous) excercise weakens your immune system but a moderate amount boosts it. I had two resections and then a gap of 18years (no meds) and then had to have another. I had joined a gym and was doing the maximin of everything (I looked like Arnold) John

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

Response:

Does anyone run long distances? i recently ran a half marathon. the next week – i was out of remission. worst flare up i’ve had. how many miles are ya’ll averaging? i’m thinking i need to cut back when i’m able to run again. my doctor doesn’t have any other patients with chron’s that run so he doesn’t have much of an idea of what would be safe. Virginia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey… will the glucosamine please keep it down. This is a library ya know! Debs Well good shoes is one of the first places to look. I added a glucosamine and tumeric supplement to my nutritional regimen. The Tumeric acts as a cox2 anti inflammatory and the glucosamine speaks for itself. I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

Response:

I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

Response:

I have crohn’s and run. I would try using ice on your painful joints. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

Response:

Well good shoes is one of the first places to look. I added a glucosamine and tumeric supplement to my nutritional regimen. The Tumeric acts as a cox2 anti inflammatory and the glucosamine speaks for itself.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

Response:

Hey… will the glucosamine please keep it down. This is a library ya know! Debs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well good shoes is one of the first places to look. I added a glucosamine and tumeric supplement to my nutritional regimen. The Tumeric acts as a cox2 anti inflammatory and the glucosamine speaks for itself. I am an avid runner. When I am having a flare up, I obviously am unable to run. ARe there any other runners out there with Chron’s disease? Also – i am plagued with joint pain with this flare up. does anyone have any tips on how to reduce the joint pain (other than meds)?

– remove YOURFOOT before responding

Response:

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

Ostomy, a key to freedom?

Question:

Just goes to show that the hieght of surprise is a fart with a lump in it. I think that this is something that we all worry about at one time or another. The general opinion is that an ostomy results in increase quality of life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Paul; I have an ileostomy since 1997 due to Ulcerated Colitis. I had so many bowel movements per day that I had to plan where the restrooms were on my route into town. BOY can I relate!!! I was in a warehouse store (like Sam’s) one day. Thought I had gas. I did not….. Used up a hole holder of theose elementry school style tissue sheets of TP. Put cardboard boxes on the cloth car seat and GOT HOME! Since having an ostomy, my quality of life is 100% better. Life with an ostomy is not All Bad, see the link below: Excellent! I have heard others report much improved life with a perminent ostomy. Only so many boxes avalable at a given store at any one time. — Paul Pinyot.

Response:

Hi Paul, I have Crohn’s disease and had a panproctocolectomy 11 years ago (1993). I was on my knees begging my doctor for the operation. The pain and misery I suffered then has not been repeated. In Jan. 2003 I had to have the stoma redone because the last 4 inches had compacted (Crohn’s?) and the stoma stenosed. This operation was a piece of cake – I refer to it as stoma cosmetic surgery – no scar – just a few stitches around the stoma. Have a chat to as many patients you can including a stoma nurse or two. Do a search on www.talkaboutsupport.com I have posted on my experience a few times and the posts are probably worth you reading – do a search on either my name or ileostomy. With respect to it being the key to freedom – well I certainly know that my colon was well and truly freed, but I am still a slave of the democratic way of life and struggling with the old nine to five, if you call that freedom. The struggling has nothing to do with the stoma – more the reflux oesophagitis, Crohn’s tiredness and extraintestinals, food intolerances and heart failure (I am convinced due to Crohn’s being left undetected for so long). All the best, Vanny I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

Response:

Hello Paul; I have an ileostomy since 1997 due to Ulcerated Colitis. I had so many bowel movements per day that I had to plan where the restrooms were on my route into town.

BOY can I relate!!! I was in a warehouse store (like Sam’s) one day. Thought I had gas. I did not….. Used up a hole holder of theose elementry school style tissue sheets of TP. Put cardboard boxes on the cloth car seat and GOT HOME! Since having an ostomy, my quality of life is 100% better. Life with an ostomy is not All Bad, see the link below:

Excellent! I have heard others report much improved life with a perminent ostomy. Only so many boxes avalable at a given store at any one time. — Paul Pinyot.

Response:

I had an colostomy for exactly 6 months. I found it very easy to live with, not in the least bit intrusive to my life. In fact it liberated me from much of the pain I had endured for so many years. The hard part for me was just getting used to the daily cleaning. Dealing with your own stools can be a bit repulsive at first but in time it becomes nothing at all. Kind of like changing a baby diaper. The appliances themselves worked well, lasted for several days and never did I have an odor problem. After a few weeks I could change the thing blindfolded. So for me it was a non-event having the colostomy. The quality of life improvement was well worth it. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

Response:

Hello Paul; I have an ileostomy since 1997 due to Ulcerated Colitis. I had so many bowel movements per day that I had to plan where the restrooms were on my route into town. Since having an ostomy, my quality of life is 100% better. Life with an ostomy is not All Bad, see the link below: http://www.geocities.com/mr-ostomy/Ostomymyths1.htm Good luck and be well, Charles in TX Senior Connection http://pub54.ezboard.com/bostomyforum66946

Response:

hmmm, key to freedom is not exactly the words I would use. I will have had my ostomy 3 yrs. in May – put it off for 7 due to severe and aggressive CD all over and the rectum was shot. I think it’s such an individual thing (just as the diseases) as to how it will be for you. I wanted to die than to have an ostomy – that didn’t happen. Here I am…ostomy not so bad, disease is horrible. My fight is to save what I have left. My motto is…"the only thing that’s consistent is that there’s no consistency" That’s been my experience with my ostomy…you still need the bathroom, you still need to plan what and when to eat. You can have very uncomfortable situations as far as gas, noises and spending lots of time in the bathroom. If you have a lot of pain it may be releaved after surgery…that’s a major factor for you, I’m sure. Get a well known colo-rectal surgeon – bottom line on that… Surgeon can make or break you Good luck Susan

Response:

I only had an ostomy for 8 weeks, and I found it to be dreadful. Of course I jumped at the reanastamosis option as soon as it was available, the ostomy may have become more manageable in time. Also the surgery staff was very good, but the ET nurse at Cooper was useless, and that may have been a lot of the problem. She had me watch videos from what must have been the earliest days of ostomies, latex bags held on with belts and tape… By the time I went to surgery I was hoping I wouldn’t survive. It was mostly just messy and bothersome for me, some people wouldn’t be bothered at all. I will give you one hint that it took me until almost the end to find out. If you get the surgery call all of the manufacturers and get samples of everything they have, there really is a difference between the products and customer support. Coloplast was the best for me and ConVaTec ran a close second for products. The Coloplast CSRs are the best in the business, though.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

Response:

Hi Paul, Our stories sound somewhat simular. I recently underwent my 6th surgery for strictures. I have had all these surgeries in the last 12 years. I was wondering how many surgeries you have had and within what time frame? I just worry about having the strictures come back and undergoing all of this again. When was your last surgery? How many strictures did you have? What type of medication are you on? Has it helped? I also had the TPN line when I was real young for about 6 weeks. I was very young (14 years old) That was one of the most tramitic things I have had to deal with. I still have the scar on my chest from it and my line eventually got infected and had to be removed. I will never forget the trama of going to school and watching the other kids eat during lunch along with the many times the machine would go off at night because of air in the line. It was a lot to handle for a 14 year old. Plus, a waste of time because I eventually had to have surgery anyway. Take care, Marlena – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will caution you to get a though workup and a second opinion. If your pain is up high in the small intestines (like I had) you may need to have a j-june ostomy (sp?) or an illiostomy a bit higher than the ileum. Both produces (in me) short bowl syndrome. Where anything you eat or drink comes rushing out in a few minutes. I also lost weight so fast that I needed TPN until the ostomy was reversed. Being on TPN presents a whole other set of problems like liver enzymes, infection, and balancing the solution for proper nutrition. AND the catheter (the line where the TPN is fed into your large vein above your heart) can and will get infected and need replaced. The dressing of the catheter will need changing every week. I have had successful surgery(s) to remove strictures (Cohn’s) in the small intestines. The pain went away and I am a much happier fellow. Good luck,

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

I vote pro for an ostomy. Even though the other Paul pointed out that there can be difficulties. There is a period of adjustment and geting used to your new body image may or may not be an issue, but if an ostomey can improve your quality of life I say it is a good thing. I have had one for over 32 years now and I have had a great life so far. Rob

Response:

I’m 22 years old have had an ileo for 18 months. It was a life saver. No pain. It really isn’t hard getting used to. I do have crohns. I was at the point you are with pain meds. I decided I wanted a life again so I had the surgery. If you have any ?’s feel free to email me or post to the group. I hope this helped some. Thanks, BRANDY

Response:

I will caution you to get a though workup and a second opinion. If your pain is up high in the small intestines (like I had) you may need to have a j-june ostomy (sp?) or an illiostomy a bit higher than the ileum. Both produces (in me) short bowl syndrome. Where anything you eat or drink comes rushing out in a few minutes. I also lost weight so fast that I needed TPN until the ostomy was reversed. Being on TPN presents a whole other set of problems like liver enzymes, infection, and balancing the solution for proper nutrition. AND the catheter (the line where the TPN is fed into your large vein above your heart) can and will get infected and need replaced. The dressing of the catheter will need changing every week. I have had successful surgery(s) to remove strictures (Cohn’s) in the small intestines. The pain went away and I am a much happier fellow. Good luck, — Paul Pinyot

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

Response:

I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

Response:

I got my ileostomy because of ulcerative colitis, so it may be different for you, but the ileostomy beats the pain a million to one! You would not believe how good it feels to feel good for a change! Good luck, Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have chron’s disease. defecation is caausing me enough pain that I generally require narcotic medication after going to the can. My question is, "What is worse, the pain and medication or the hassle of maintaining an ostomy?" what are the issues involved in managing a stoma and the associated changes in lifestyle. Right now I do not know if I am ready for an ostomy but I do know that the novelty of the pain has worn off long ago. If you can help me, please share your experiences both pro and con. Thanx – Paul This has been cross-posted to both alt.support.crohns-colitis and alt.support.ostomy

Response:

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

A few suggestions and a little help needed

Question:

What you said about the flu making your IBD worse was kinda the opposite in me. I had flu and it put me into remission for about 2 weeks (which is extremely good with my record lol). Anyone else want to add? Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the TB shot is more like the straw that broke the camels back. Crohn’s is a chronic degenerative disease. We didn’t just wake up one day hurting with crohn’s disease as our first day of having crohn’s…..Usually we have had it a lot longer prior to realising something is wrong. It just has a tendency to show its ugly head full blown and incurable when our immune system is overworked and undernourished. Be it stress, injury or in your case getting a shot. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free ken..i think u may be right here…i get really sick when i have a flu shot.(but more sick from the flu..so i have one yearly anyway).. but brian…u still need to get the shots in your life..as ken said..crohns didnt start just one day…u had it…the tb shot might have exacerbated it..but sooner or later..u would be where u are today with it.. annie

Response:

you are so right. I have been told several times that the amount of CD seen in my instestines would not cause the symptoms I was having. Then why have I had to have 4 resections? It was not my idea to have them!

Response:

Well thats easy…In there line of thinking…you don’t have something until they say you do. Until a diagnoses is made and there is actually something there that they can attempt to fight… you don’t have anything. I went through the same BS too. Newsflash!! Doctors definitly do not know it all. Not by a long shot. If they did they would be faring a lot better against these chronic diseases then they are now. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

but ken..not all doctors are like that..only a few in the long line of decent ones..just as there are incompetent ignoramuses in every line of work…there are poor doctors..but there are tons of good ones out there who KNOW about ibd..besides gi’s who know…as i wrote..my internist was the one who knew what i had before i ever saw the gi..its why he referred me..he THOUGHT i had uc or crohns..he was right..and he is NOT a gi.. annie

Response:

Never, ever, ever, let your doctor tell what symptoms you have had. I had Crohn’s Disease for 4-5 years under doctors who told me I was crazy, making it up, had factitious disease, etc. Then (with new doctors) they could not figure out what it was because I had symptoms, but nothing would show on tests. During this time I ended up having emergency surgery a couple of times after my colon had ruptured with peritonitis. I was finally diagnosed with Crohn’s on the emergency surgery where they removed my whole colon. Crohn’s is apparently hard to diagnose and sometimes hard to see. You know what symptoms you have had! paula

i beg to disagree…i have to admit that when i was a child and had the symptoms..i was NOT bleeding..and the pediatrician thought i had stress, or wanted attention etc etc..and then it went sort of into remission..but once i was an adult and the bleeding started…there is no way u can "make up" blood in the stool…and if someone is NOT bleeding..and the doctor doesnt believe him/her…there are many other doctors around who are more willing to look into it..my internist actually dx’d me before my colonoscopy.not based on the bleeding as much as the severe joint pain and flu like symptoms..he said the bleeding could have been lots of things..but the joint pains and flu symptoms were typical ibd annie

Response:

I think the TB shot is more like the straw that broke the camels back. Crohn’s is a chronic degenerative disease. We didn’t just wake up one day hurting with crohn’s disease as our first day of having crohn’s…..Usually we have had it a lot longer prior to realising something is wrong. It just has a tendency to show its ugly head full blown and incurable when our immune system is overworked and undernourished. Be it stress, injury or in your case getting a shot. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

ken..i think u may be right here…i get really sick when i have a flu shot.(but more sick from the flu..so i have one yearly anyway).. but brian…u still need to get the shots in your life..as ken said..crohns didnt start just one day…u had it…the tb shot might have exacerbated it..but sooner or later..u would be where u are today with it.. annie

Response:

Well thats easy…In there line of thinking…you don’t have something until they say you do. Until a diagnoses is made and there is actually something there that they can attempt to fight… you don’t have anything. I went through the same BS too. Newsflash!! Doctors definitly do not know it all. Not by a long shot. If they did they would be faring a lot better against these chronic diseases then they are now. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do the Docs insist that this isn’t the case then, I did put it to my specialist who diagnosed me that I though I had been showing symptoms of CD throughout most of my life, but he dismissed it straight away, adamant that CD has just appeared. I think the TB shot is more like the straw that broke the camels back. Crohn’s is a chronic degenerative disease. We didn’t just wake up one day hurting with crohn’s disease as our first day of having crohn’s…..Usually we have had it a lot longer prior to realising something is wrong. It just has a tendency to show its ugly head full blown and incurable when our immune system is overworked and undernourished. Be it stress, injury or in your case getting a shot. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

hi brian and welcome to the group…was away or would have been here sooner.. dont know re the tb connection…someone on here might tho..but crohns and uc are partly genetic..that we do know… yes my ibd is often like that..and was more in the beginning..very random…i was told by my first gi to keep an ibd journal…write down daily if i could..the symptoms i had that day..what i had eaten and done etc…he said it would help him to help me…and also of course then i didnt forget stuff…when i went for ssd i had to keep a journal for the judge..similar…symptoms and activities each day…to show that one day i would be ok..next day i was in bed..etc..its what the legal community has advised for ibd people going for disability.. as for when your ibd started…you are that the age for it…it usually shows up in people in their 20’s and early 30’s..tho it can begin in childhood(and often go undiagnosed cos the symptoms are so variable..mine did)..or show up in later adulthood as well..but u are in the average group if u are in college.. it can go either way too..it can get lots better or lots worse..and u might find the perfect medication for you…and go into remission..or not…its a real iffy thing…foods too..vary by person what is ok for them..again keeping a journal with your food included will help u and your doctor to see if there is anything particular for you to avoid..for me its milk and icecream(but i can do cheese and sour cream)..and red meat unless its just a teeny bit..salads are on a day to day basis..as are fruits, veggies of all sorts.. the longer u have this..and gee..u got it for life most likely..the more u learn about it..and u know what ? the more questions u think of .. good luck..i am sorry u have crohns..but welcome to the group…this is a great source of information(i got my gi from someone on this group)..and support and humor too..we understand each other ..<G like no one else does annie

Response:

Never, ever, ever, let your doctor tell what symptoms you have had. I had Crohn’s Disease for 4-5 years under doctors who told me I was crazy, making it up, had factitious disease, etc. Then (with new doctors) they could not figure out what it was because I had symptoms, but nothing would show on tests. During this time I ended up having emergency surgery a couple of times after my colon had ruptured with peritonitis. I was finally diagnosed with Crohn’s on the emergency surgery where they removed my whole colon. Crohn’s is apparently hard to diagnose and sometimes hard to see. You know what symptoms you have had!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why do the Docs insist that this isn’t the case then, I did put it to my specialist who diagnosed me that I though I had been showing symptoms of CD throughout most of my life, but he dismissed it straight away, adamant that CD has just appeared. I think the TB shot is more like the straw that broke the camels back. Crohn’s is a chronic degenerative disease. We didn’t just wake up one day hurting with crohn’s disease as our first day of having crohn’s…..Usually we have had it a lot longer prior to realising something is wrong. It just has a tendency to show its ugly head full blown and incurable when our immune system is overworked and undernourished. Be it stress, injury or in your case getting a shot. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

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Response:

I think the TB shot is more like the straw that broke the camels back. Crohn’s is a chronic degenerative disease. We didn’t just wake up one day hurting with crohn’s disease as our first day of having crohn’s…..Usually we have had it a lot longer prior to realising something is wrong. It just has a tendency to show its ugly head full blown and incurable when our immune system is overworked and undernourished. Be it stress, injury or in your case getting a shot. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have had UC since I was 12 (now 15) and should be having the TB jab this friday infact, although im not allowed to have it because of taking prednisolone. So my UC cant have been caused by the TB jab, im not sure about other cases tho. Sarah Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

Why do the Docs insist that this isn’t the case then, I did put it to my specialist who diagnosed me that I though I had been showing symptoms of CD throughout most of my life, but he dismissed it straight away, adamant that CD has just appeared.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think the TB shot is more like the straw that broke the camels back. Crohn’s is a chronic degenerative disease. We didn’t just wake up one day hurting with crohn’s disease as our first day of having crohn’s…..Usually we have had it a lot longer prior to realising something is wrong. It just has a tendency to show its ugly head full blown and incurable when our immune system is overworked and undernourished. Be it stress, injury or in your case getting a shot. Ken.W 7 Years Med Free

Response:

Thanks for all the suggestions. I’m going to try keeping a diary and noting down everything i eat and whether or not i remember to take my pills for a few months and then go and see my doctor and see what he suggests. Judging from what i’ve been reading on here i’m very lucky to have only one or two problems every now and again. Thanks again Brian.

Response:

I have had UC since I was 12 (now 15) and should be having the TB jab this friday infact, although im not allowed to have it because of taking prednisolone. So my UC cant have been caused by the TB jab, im not sure about other cases tho. Sarah

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

Jeff good luck with the endoscopy. Let me know how it goes. UM MOM Susan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – okay, hi brian…you know how to spell crohns now…lol first of all, pred is the g.p. standard protocal. it is an anti-inflammatory. pentasa puts, more or less at "topical" treatment on top of the inflammation and the rest of the lining in your g.i. track. it is most often used for uc, but has benefit for crohns due to it’s ability to topically treat the inflammation. there are other treatments that work well besides pred. you need to try them. i have been thru pred, aza (imuran), cyclosplorine, tacrolimus and not on mtx. i also take remicade infusion and pentasa. i am in "half-assed" remission. cd has gone from moderate to mild. i also take a number of meds that treat a host of other side effects this wonderful diesease has treated me to. the immunomodulator, mtx also helps to keep my pyoderma gangrenosum under control as well as the cd. levbid for cramps, immodium, dieritic for the water weight gain, pentasa and a med that treats stomach ulcers, it reduces stomach acids before i eat…..i get terrible hearburn and reflux. getting an upper endoscopy this thursday and see if crohns or whatever is active in my upper g.i. area. i also take a host of vitamins and minerals, vit B complex w/folic acid, esp. since i am on mtx. take zinc because there is strong theory it helps (some clinical trials are under way on this). i took and still take magnesium due to the tacrolimus i am going off of, tacrolimus is a memeber of the cyclosplorine family and wants to depleat you of magnesium. i don’t know if there is a connection between tb and crohns or not. i have done plenty of research and have never come across any comments that there is any type of connection. good luck to you. jeffy Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

okay, hi brian…you know how to spell crohns now…lol first of all, pred is the g.p. standard protocal. it is an anti-inflammatory. pentasa puts, more or less at "topical" treatment on top of the inflammation and the rest of the lining in your g.i. track. it is most often used for uc, but has benefit for crohns due to it’s ability to topically treat the inflammation. there are other treatments that work well besides pred. you need to try them. i have been thru pred, aza (imuran), cyclosplorine, tacrolimus and not on mtx. i also take remicade infusion and pentasa. i am in "half-assed" remission. cd has gone from moderate to mild. i also take a number of meds that treat a host of other side effects this wonderful diesease has treated me to. the immunomodulator, mtx also helps to keep my pyoderma gangrenosum under control as well as the cd. levbid for cramps, immodium, dieritic for the water weight gain, pentasa and a med that treats stomach ulcers, it reduces stomach acids before i eat…..i get terrible hearburn and reflux. getting an upper endoscopy this thursday and see if crohns or whatever is active in my upper g.i. area. i also take a host of vitamins and minerals, vit B complex w/folic acid, esp. since i am on mtx. take zinc because there is strong theory it helps (some clinical trials are under way on this). i took and still take magnesium due to the tacrolimus i am going off of, tacrolimus is a memeber of the cyclosplorine family and wants to depleat you of magnesium. i don’t know if there is a connection between tb and crohns or not. i have done plenty of research and have never come across any comments that there is any type of connection. good luck to you. jeffy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

Some people have problems identical to Crohns from the side effects of pentasa. Talk with your doc re other options like remicade or imuran and see what he she says.

Response:

Are you not on Imodium, it would help a great deal. It is Crohns

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has.

Keep a record of what you eat. You will find that certain foods create problems. Symptoms of chrohn’s don’t usually show up until you have had it for a long time, much longer than 3 or 4 months. — Clark Zahn Registered linux user 267087

Response:

Welcome Brian! First it is spelled crohn’s. What you should do is keep a log of what is going on every day and how you feel and what you ate, reaction to it etc. Then keep a list of questions you think of during this time to bring it all with you to your gi visit so you remember what questions you have for him/her. The log doesn’t have to be a dailey thing if you are have good day just write in it good day. You might want to put down for yourself what you did that day and see if it connects to why you have the good and the bad days. As for the TB, I don’t know sorry. I do know that you have to be tested for TB prior to taking Remicade but that is the only time I remember seeing anything connect tb and crohn’s. UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

Hi, I was diagnosed with Chron’s disease (i’m never sure how to spell it properly) about 5 or 6 years ago (i’ve been having symptoms for about 7 or 8 years though). I was originally put on steroids and Pentasa (an anti-imflamatory), which helped immensely. That was a while ago and ever since i’ve tried a few methods to help keep my symptoms under control. I’ve tried being on just the Pentasa and i’ve tried not eating or drinking milk and beef. My problem is that my symptoms seem to be entirely random. Some days I have really bad wind, with stomach pains, some days i have no diarrhea in the morning, but ten minutes later i do. The most annoying thing is that whenever i go to see my doctor for my yearly check-up i usually feel fine and forget to tell him about my problems. One more point is that a friend’s younger brother has recently been diagnosed too and his symptoms started 3 or 4 months after getting his TB jag at school and after thinking about it, then same applies to me. Does anyone know of any research into this connection? I’s appreciate any opinions or suggestions that anyone has. Thanks

Response:

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

crohns or colitis??

Question:

I have colitis and eat anything but I can’t eat alot of nuts, spicy food, dried fruit, alcohol, processed sugar and wheat or my colon will hurt. Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony

Many thanks for the replies, both in the NG & by email. I now have much to think about. with many thanks. I have not replied before now because I have been away for a few days & when I came back my newsreader & email would not work properly & it has taken me a couple of days to sort it!! Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony

If you do have Colitis, yes the ileo will cure that, but if it does turn out to be CD, you will only be in remission, CD, can affect you anywhere from the mouth to the anus at any time in your life. Dr’s often make the wrong diagnosis with CD and colitis, but it should be clarified when a biopsy is done at the surgery stage. I have an ileo from CD, and yes I feel much better now, but I know that I could get the CD back at a different section at any time, hence why I’m still on med as a precaution. P.S. If you decide to go ahead with the ileo, you welcome to ask me any questions about it, I always feel it’s important to help others through surgery, esp once you’ve been there yourself, unfortatly Dr’s and Stoma nurses often don’t have first hand experience of what living with a stoma can actually be like. Michele

Response:

Is the differentiation between CD and UC important in terms of treatment? How do the treatments differ? Curious. Dan

Response:

Well I only know that a lot of the meds break down in certain areas to be helpful. So I would think getting a definite diagnosis, though sometimes they just can’t seen to find ;( would be helpful on setting up a treatment plan, diet and so forth. Just a thought. UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is the differentiation between CD and UC important in terms of treatment? How do the treatments differ? Curious. Dan

Response:

Is the differentiation between CD and UC important in terms of treatment? How do the treatments differ? Curious. Dan

There isn’t a big difference in terms of treatment for both conditions, and differentiating is usually only important when surgery is on the horizon. The 5-ASA drugs are probably used more often in UC but are still used frequently in Crohns. Remicade has yet to be approved for UC but probably will be in the future at some point. Methotrexate has been shown to be more effective in Crohn’s than UC but is still used in both conditions. I would also guess that thiopurine drugs, azathioprine and 6-MP are used as much in either UC or Crohn’s.

Response:

Sorry about your problems. You might consider the many steps that help a lot of patients in this group. Basically, the steps cause food to break down much more rapidly than normal. For instance, some patients use a juicer to liquefy vegetables. One patient uses digestive enzymes. Another uses probiotics. Almost all patients avoid hard-to-digest food. Most patients eat less and chew more. Most avoid stress and food (such as coffee) that accelerates undigested food towards the colon. One clinic had success inducing remission with worms. Many patients are happy with a diet book for Crohn’s & Colitis patients, as many develop food allergies for products such as soy and whey. There is a possibility that the immune system is attacking larger nutrients that are normally contained in the small intestine for further break-down. When the large nutrients enter the bloodstream, the nutrients trigger a chronic inflammation that leads to collateral damage. The largest nutrients trigger an IgE-mediated response… which is a response that should be reserved for large antigens like parasites and invading worms. IgE responses are basically the cause of allergies. Good luck! Dan

Response:

In answer to your question, I *believe* (please correct me if I’m wrong) that it is possible to determine the difference between ulcerative colitis and chron’s disease by doing a colonoscopy, and taking a biopsy. Apparently the presentation of the cellular structure is different in each disease. My GE did a colonoscopy right off the bat when I was diagnosed with IBD. A biopsy went along with that as they nip off a little piece of your gut while they’re up there. Steve Unaffiliated

Response:

Did I say whey? Oops. I meant gluten! Dan

Response:

Just so you know I had all the tests and I mean all of them and didn’t get diagnosed until I was in emergency surgery for CD. Sometimes the tests don’t show or the drs and radiology just can’t see it. I don’t know how they missed such a large amount of damage inside me for so long! UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In answer to your question, I *believe* (please correct me if I’m wrong) that it is possible to determine the difference between ulcerative colitis and chron’s disease by doing a colonoscopy, and taking a biopsy. Apparently the presentation of the cellular structure is different in each disease. My GE did a colonoscopy right off the bat when I was diagnosed with IBD. A biopsy went along with that as they nip off a little piece of your gut while they’re up there. Steve Unaffiliated

Response:

In answer to your question, I *believe* (please correct me if I’m wrong) that it is possible to determine the difference between ulcerative colitis and chron’s disease by doing a colonoscopy, and taking a biopsy. Apparently the presentation of the cellular structure is different in each disease. My GE did a colonoscopy right off the bat when I was diagnosed with IBD. A biopsy went along with that as they nip off a little piece of your gut while they’re up there. Steve Unaffiliated

Even with a biopsy it can sometimes be impossible to differentiate between Crohns and UC in some cases, I believe this happens about 10% of the time.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony hi tony

if you have colitis removing the diseased part will cure it..but colitis is specific to the colon…you are talking about the ileum..sounds like crohns.. you may have "crohns colitis" which is sort of both..i was dx with that at this point.. there are specific ways to dx crohns..fistulas etc…they do biopsies..however..when u have colitis and it appears in patches..that mimics crohns..and it means it may be crohns actually…but without some of the typical crohns issues…so then they may call it crohns colitis.. you would therefore NOT be a candidate for surgery as a cure.. there is apparently a very expensive only 50percent reliable test to show which u have..its NOT covered by the hmos and at that poor reliability…its probably not worth the hassles and expense…my gi and i tried to get hold of the people who developed it..they had a phone number..so we could find out about maybe my having it..we could never reach anyone..so we are still treating my illness as a combo.. the problem with colitis is there is a higher chance of colon cancer than with crohns..the problem with crohns is it can spread to other places…if u have both u may be at risk for both..so just take really good care of your health..see your gi often and dont have surgery unless you absolutely have to annie

Response:

TONY #2 YES…..#3 YES #1 QUESTIONABLE GOD BLESS DSM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Before you consider anything radical like surgery please check out this web site and try the suggestions (stick to them 100%) and if they don’t help (after giving them time to work) then seek a medical opinion: http://www.colitis-crohns.com/ Don’t believe the medical community because they haven’t been able to cure these diseases and they are run by the rich executive stockholders of the pharmaceutical industry…who care not about me and you but themselves. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Tony, I can relate, and to echo the other responses.. diet – it’s pretty crazy the way GI’s will generally say diet doesn’t matter. I’ve been in the hospital twice and the nutrition people in there have driven me nuts too. i guess it’s that due to the variation in diet responses, it’s too hard for them to get standard scientific support. I’ve recently adopted sugar free and gluten free although I haven’t totally committed to the very fine details of these two yet (e.g. the oats (which some say can have gluten) and a bit of sugar in cheerios with soy milk is still on my snack list..I wonder if it should be), I can say i think it helps. but it’s early. docs often say low fiber during flares, but in my experience, isn’t really helpful. diagnosis – don’t know if it’s a mistake, but a question of statistics. i had a prometheus test based on a biopsy that said some chance of crohns but probably colitis. other symptoms led the doctor to suggest a slight possiblity of crohns. there may be more that can be done to narrow it down but i’ve decided it doesn’t matter that much. Possibility of crohns is one reason i don’t want the surgery, but there are plenty more. i like the chinese medicine, meditation, yoga, anti-stress advice too. just started pred taper the other day. (40 to 30; targeting 20 by thurs., and probably slower taper after that). anyway, hope it helps, for my sake and yours. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Surgery will "cure" it if it is UC. The thinking too is that if it is CD and has been confined to the large bowel only for at least 5 years, then surgery can be considered a "cure" as the CD is unlikely to move elsewhere after all that time (this is why they’re now considering j pouch surgery for such CDers).. Good luck. http://www.ostomates.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

my opinion is there is no excuse for a wrong dx. go get a second opinion for sure, before any surgery. another thing is, what if you have "crohns colitus"? these things make a huge difference. get a 2nd or even a 3rd opinion and be sure they do lab tests to prove what you got. jeffy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

1) Diet definetly matters (see below) 2) If you have Crohn and not colitis, the symptoms can return in your small intestine. IIRC if a biopsie shows Crohn it means you have Crohn It shows granulomateus(sp?) cells caracteristic of Crohn. If those cells don’t show on the biopsie it doesn’t mean anything. IIRC a diagnostic of colitis means (after all the tests for the infectious diseases have been ruled out) the inflammation is limited to the colon, to the inner linen of the intestinal wall, there is no healthy gaps between inflammation sites and biopsies don’t show granulomatous cells. 3) I don’t know how often doctors mistake Crohn for colitis. Alternatives things that helped me: – changing your diet. A sugar free, gluten free and dairy free worked for me. Of course no coffee, no sodas, no fried foods, and icy stuff are usually awfull for me. Others have success with different diets. – sleeping as much as you can. – supplements. I use a multivitamin, a multiminerals, omega 3 caps, probiotics and antioxydants when I’m feeling bad. Lately I only take a multiminerals (because I don’t eat dairy products and lack minerals otherwise), and ginseng (to prevent tireness, because I don’t sleep enough) – chinese medicine. Acupuncture + herbs helped me tremendously to overcome flares (I gave up conventionnal medicine for the chinese one because was far more efficient for me) – psychotherapy. Learning to cope with stress and understand the reasons why I was under so much pressure greatly helped me too (though at the beginning I didn’t even recognize I was under some kind of stress). – Yoga. For the same reasons as psychotherapy, plus it helped me to realize I was always tense because of pain, not breathing correctly, contracting my muscle. Once I manage to relax I usually feel much better. Noella – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

hi tony, yeah if you have colitis and your colon removed, you will effectively be cured, but not necessarily so if you have crohns. i think they can usually determine which you have when they take a biopie at diagnosis. you say you have always struggled once you are off pred, have they tried tapering the doses more slowly? most doctors say diet doent affect colitis, but most sufferers say it does. Robert

Response:

just remember if you have the surgery you will never have another solid bowel movment for the rest of your life!! and if there is chron’s it is most likely to pop up somewhere else – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Hi I was diagnosed with colitis Nov 1999. Since then I have done a lot of reading & research. My symptoms have also worsened & I am now struggling with a flare that started last July (has been up & down). I am contemplating having a ileostomy. If the drug I am on now does not work then I will have tried them all. Pred is the only one that seems to sort me, as soon as I taper off it, the symptoms return. Before I have the ileostomy (or not) I need as much info as possible. 1) I have read that diet has little effect on colitis. Is this true? My symptoms are made much worse if I eat garlic, chillies, or fatty foods (the garlic & chillies in any amount). 2) If I do have a ileostomy it will ‘cure’ the colitis. If I have a ileostomy & it turns out that I have crohns, are the symptoms likely to return? 3) Is it easy for a Dr to mistake crohns for colitis? Many thanks Tony — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. So check it anyway! No attachments unless advised in body of email. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

alternative approach question

Question:

Hi Folks, finally a newsgroup that’s really useful! [snip] Since diet seems to really trigger much of the itching I am goint to Follow a detox diet plan for 1 month. No red meat, no sugars, no wheat, no dairy, Etc. It’s tough as hell to follow but I think I can swing it for a month. The afterward reintroduce slowly back into a no wheat/diary/sugar diet. Essentially using a form of the Blood Type Diet.

One month may be too short to do any good. I can’t say. I read Pagano’s book and followed the diet religiously for a year. Didn’t do a thing for my psoriasis. After a couple of months on the diet my wife was concerned that I might not be getting enough protein (I am fairly active… ice hockey), so I started taking soy protein to make up the difference. 2. A full regement of nutritional supplements with plus garlic, milkthistle, flaxoil. I was going to add a zinc supplement to this but not sure. Anyone else have any suggestions?

I tried the flax oil for 3 months, didn’t do much for me, but don’t let that discourage you. 3. Up my water intake to minimum 1 – 2 quarts a day. Basically I am going on the theory of trying to eliminate toxicity build up. 4. Stress reduction and exercise. There is a pool at my gym and i wanted to include swimming as part of this but I have found that the chlorine in the water aggrevates my P. Anyone else had this?

Yes. As a matter of fact I put a filter on my shower head that removes most of the chlorine. I got the Rainshower CQ-1000. I can’t say how it compares to any others since it’s the only one I have tried, but it does seem to do some good. I didn’t realize that the shower was irritating my skin until I put in the filter and found that my skin felt better after showering. 5. baths with Dead sea salts. I found a brand that makes one with rosemary, milk thistle and green tea mixed in with the salts. After the bath you come out smelling like a basted thanksgiving turkey but you definitely feel sweet in the skin.

I never tried Dead sea salts, but did soak in a bath with epsom salts and a little witch hazel daily for a while. Can’t say it had any good long term effect. [snip] 6. Shampoos. This is tricky I have tried them all with limited success. Ihave also tried prewashing my hair with raw honey diluted in warm water. This helps with killing fungus it also conditions the heck out of your hair. I have tried coal tar shampoos, they’re ok except most contain cancer causing agents.(There’s something you don’t read in the press too often.) Although I did find a shampoo that uses pine tar. Works OK..you’re head just smells like a campire.

I’ve been having reaonably good luck with Grandpa’s pine tar shampoo. The P is still there, there is just no scale and it doesn’t get any worse. [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a final thought, has anyone had any exprience accupuncture? Thanks all.

Response:

hey ed i also have p but i’m only 21 not sure of your age, and it clears up in the summer and just resently came back and came back bad. But i did some research and there are some new biological drugs that work from the inside out. Ask your docter about Enbrel,this has been knoen to clear people alsmost all the way for a long period of remision after. and also ask about a drug called remicade, it’s used to tread Chron’s disease but has worked wonders on "p". i’m tired of creams and changing my diet for it to come back, that why treating it at the root of the problem is the way to go. good luck.

Response:

Ed- You might want to search the ng archives on all these subjects, using the links at http://www.pinch.com/skin As they’ve all been discussed regularly in some fashion and you might find some useful pointers. Kim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Folks, finally a newsgroup that’s really useful! So like the rest of you I have been plagued with Psoriasis for roughly 4 years now. It started out when I was severly under stress to the point of collapsing for 3 days and also being exposed possibly to tetnus (it’s along story but let’s just say never try to jump over razor wire.) Anyhow here I am years later the P is getting worse. I have tried everything but now I think I am starting to figure out a basic cure but I wanted to get everyone’s opinion first. I am thinking of approaching this situation from a more holistic approach and am going to try the following: 1. I am slowly realizing the diet is integral to this disease. How many folks out there share these food intolerances (increased itching, blaoting) with me: tomatoes, lentils, chickpeas, cola soda, anything with high fructose cornsyrup, potatoes and other nightshades, wheat/yeast, milk and certain seasonings like cumin and curry seasoning. Since diet seems to really trigger much of the itching I am goint to Follow a detox diet plan for 1 month. No red meat, no sugars, no wheat, no dairy, Etc. It’s tough as hell to follow but I think I can swing it for a month. The afterward reintroduce slowly back into a no wheat/diary/sugar diet. Essentially using a form of the Blood Type Diet. 2. A full regement of nutritional supplements with plus garlic, milkthistle, flaxoil. I was going to add a zinc supplement to this but not sure. Anyone else have any suggestions? 3. Up my water intake to minimum 1 – 2 quarts a day. Basically I am going on the theory of trying to eliminate toxicity build up. 4. Stress reduction and exercise. There is a pool at my gym and i wanted to include swimming as part of this but I have found that the chlorine in the water aggrevates my P. Anyone else had this? 5. baths with Dead sea salts. I found a brand that makes one with rosemary, milk thistle and green tea mixed in with the salts. After the bath you come out smelling like a basted thanksgiving turkey but you definitely feel sweet in the skin. Honestly the best bath that helps me has been just dipping into the ocean. When ever I have spent a significant time at the beach swimming in the ocean, my P starts to totally clear. Maybe it’s a combo of the lack of stress, sunshine and ocean salts. Or is it nature’s way of telling me to own beachfront property? 6. Shampoos. This is tricky I have tried them all with limited success. Ihave also tried prewashing my hair with raw honey diluted in warm water. This helps with killing fungus it also conditions the heck out of your hair. I have tried coal tar shampoos, they’re ok except most contain cancer causing agents.(There’s something you don’t read in the press too often.) Although I did find a shampoo that uses pine tar. Works OK..you’re head just smells like a campire. Am currently trying a shampoo that has Salicylic acid, Rosemary, Mint and some other botanicals. Works fairly well. Any one else’s natural shampoo experiences? 7. Creams and moisturizers. I saw that Origins sells a deadsea salts body cream. Before plunking down big bucks for thier overpriced product, has any one else had experience with this cream? As a final thought, has anyone had any exprience accupuncture? Thanks all.

The Psoriasis Newsgroup Resource FAQ can be found at http://www.psoriasisfaq.com but will also be coming soon (twice a month) to a newsgroup near you…

Response:

Hi Folks, finally a newsgroup that’s really useful! So like the rest of you I have been plagued with Psoriasis for roughly 4 years now. It started out when I was severly under stress to the point of collapsing for 3 days and also being exposed possibly to tetnus (it’s along story but let’s just say never try to jump over razor wire.) Anyhow here I am years later the P is getting worse. I have tried everything but now I think I am starting to figure out a basic cure but I wanted to get everyone’s opinion first. I am thinking of approaching this situation from a more holistic approach and am going to try the following: 1. I am slowly realizing the diet is integral to this disease. How many folks out there share these food intolerances (increased itching, blaoting) with me: tomatoes, lentils, chickpeas, cola soda, anything with high fructose cornsyrup, potatoes and other nightshades, wheat/yeast, milk and certain seasonings like cumin and curry seasoning. Since diet seems to really trigger much of the itching I am goint to Follow a detox diet plan for 1 month. No red meat, no sugars, no wheat, no dairy, Etc. It’s tough as hell to follow but I think I can swing it for a month. The afterward reintroduce slowly back into a no wheat/diary/sugar diet. Essentially using a form of the Blood Type Diet. 2. A full regement of nutritional supplements with plus garlic, milkthistle, flaxoil. I was going to add a zinc supplement to this but not sure. Anyone else have any suggestions? 3. Up my water intake to minimum 1 – 2 quarts a day. Basically I am going on the theory of trying to eliminate toxicity build up. 4. Stress reduction and exercise. There is a pool at my gym and i wanted to include swimming as part of this but I have found that the chlorine in the water aggrevates my P. Anyone else had this? 5. baths with Dead sea salts. I found a brand that makes one with rosemary, milk thistle and green tea mixed in with the salts. After the bath you come out smelling like a basted thanksgiving turkey but you definitely feel sweet in the skin. Honestly the best bath that helps me has been just dipping into the ocean. When ever I have spent a significant time at the beach swimming in the ocean, my P starts to totally clear. Maybe it’s a combo of the lack of stress, sunshine and ocean salts. Or is it nature’s way of telling me to own beachfront property? 6. Shampoos. This is tricky I have tried them all with limited success. Ihave also tried prewashing my hair with raw honey diluted in warm water. This helps with killing fungus it also conditions the heck out of your hair. I have tried coal tar shampoos, they’re ok except most contain cancer causing agents.(There’s something you don’t read in the press too often.) Although I did find a shampoo that uses pine tar. Works OK..you’re head just smells like a campire. Am currently trying a shampoo that has Salicylic acid, Rosemary, Mint and some other botanicals. Works fairly well. Any one else’s natural shampoo experiences? 7. Creams and moisturizers. I saw that Origins sells a deadsea salts body cream. Before plunking down big bucks for thier overpriced product, has any one else had experience with this cream? As a final thought, has anyone had any exprience accupuncture? Thanks all.

Response:

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

Amalgams #1 Source of Mercury in People

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Graig and Jan, Jan posted an extremely similar article before, but there are a few problems with it. I’ll re-post my concerns I put to Jan about this similar article, as I believe the same sentiments apply to the article you have offered. Here is what I posted a few weeks ago: Jan, You have offered this article yet again as evidence. After doing some research at your suggestion, I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams. The article does not distinguish between the toxicity (i.e. ranging from negligible to high) of elemental Hg with the toxicity Hg vapour, and with the toxicity with mercury alloys. I believe the article is deliberately written in this way for people to believe to toxicity of Hg vapour is the same as a mercury alloy or elemental mercury. As I tried to highlight before, the article is trying to compare apples with oranges. It is your response which is misleading. Amalgams are the principle source of exposure in the population.

Minorsev, What is your explanation for the selective editing in the reference section? Do you think it is deliberate? If so, why? DE

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Graig and Jan, Jan posted an extremely similar article before, but there are a few problems with it. I’ll re-post my concerns I put to Jan about this similar article, as I believe the same sentiments apply to the article you have offered. Here is what I posted a few weeks ago: Jan, You have offered this article yet again as evidence. After doing some research at your suggestion, I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams. The article does not distinguish between the toxicity (i.e. ranging from negligible to high) of elemental Hg with the toxicity Hg vapour, and with the toxicity with mercury alloys. I believe the article is deliberately written in this way for people to believe to toxicity of Hg vapour is the same as a mercury alloy or elemental mercury. As I tried to highlight before, the article is trying to compare apples with oranges. It is your response which is misleading. Amalgams are the principle source of exposure in the population. Any chemist can put amalgams in solution and measure mercury vapor evaporating from the solution. If the solution is heated or acidic or if you place another metal in the solution then more vapor will be released. Dentists are required by law to dispose of scrap amalgam as a hazardous waste. So by federal law even the mercury alloy is too hazardous to flush down the toilet. Either the federal government is overreacting in response to scrap amalgam disposal or it is underreacting in response to dentists placing that amalgam in the mouth. Mercury amalgam cannot be both hazardous and safe. One of the regulatory policies must be in error: either the 19th-century dental practice is wrongheaded, or the late-20th-century amalgam disposal practice is wrongheaded. It is interesting to note that no pro-amalgamists have pointed out the hysteria in the government’s policy on scrap amalgam disposal. So the underlying sentiment in the pro-amalgamist seems to be a deep trust in old traditions and the intelligence of bureacracies, over and against a consistency of thought and logic demanded by individuals. When urinary excretions and blood measurements prove themselves to be erorenous indicators of mercury body burden, this doesn’t cause the pro-amalgamist to question the Science supporting amalgam safety. He cannot believe that a poison such as mercury can really hazardous when placed in the mouth. So now he must look at the particular compounds in which mercury may find itself in the body, with the effort of minimizing its toxicity, to maintain his believe in the wisdom of 19th-century dentists and the bureacratic mind. Here is an interesting article I found at http://yarchive.net/med/mercury.html

Naa, I like these better, they aren’t from organized medicine. Jan http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/index.html DENTAL AMALGAMFILLINGS PAGE- documents high common mercury exposure levelsfrom dental amalgamfillings; and common adverse health effects on people anddental staff; plusresults of 60,000 clinical cases of significant improvementsto chronicconditions after amalgam replacement and treatment- as followed anddocumentedby doctors; plus environmental effects of amalgam that affecteveryone. (over1500 peer-reviewed medical study or Gov’t Agency referencesdocumentingmechanisms by which mercury from amalgam causes over 30chronichealth conditions) FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 24, 2001Mechinisms Documented byWhich Mercury from Amalgam Dental Fillings andVaccinations Are a Cause or MajorFactor in Over 40 Chronic Health Conditions; Class Action Suits for DamagesExpected to Total in the Billions of Dollars Announced in Washington, D.C.Acoalition of doctors, dentists, lawyers, health advocates, andenvironmentalistsare releasing information on April 24th in Washington DC, documenting thatmillions of people have been adversely affected by mercury indental fillingsand vaccinations. Lawyers are announcing class action lawsuitsexpected toinvolve billions of dollars in adverse effects and comparable totobacco. Research including over 1000 peer-reviewed or government studieshas beenaccumulated from the medical literature documenting the mechanism bywhichmercury causes over 40 chronic health conditions including: (a) autoimmuneproblems such as arthritis, MS, Lou Gehrig?s Disease(ALS),Parkinson?s/ muscletremor, Alzheimer?s, muscular & joint pain/fibromyalgia, chron?s disease, lupus, scleroderma, Chronic FatigueSyndrome(CFS), endometriosis , diabetes(b)neurological and mood disorders including memory disorders, depression,schizophrenia , insomnia, anger, anxiety & mental confusion, neuropathy/paresthesia, tinnitus, dizziness/vertigo,headaches/ migraines,epilepsy, ADD, dyslexia, learning disabilities, hearingloss, etc.(c)periodontal diseases such as gingivitis, oral lichen planus, amalgamtattoos,metal mouth, halitosis, oral keratosis(pre cancer); (d) immune systemconditions such as allergies asthma, multiple chemicalsensitivities, eczema,psoriasis, other skin conditions; cancer(breast,etc./leukemia),susceptibilityto infections, antibiotic resistant infection, sinusproblems(e) cardiovascularconditions including tachycardia, angina, arteriosclerosis,other heartconditions, hypertension, and other blood conditions (f) hormonal problems suchas hypothyroidism, adrenal problems, chronic chills,Hashimoto?s Disease,alopecia/hair loss, urinary/ prostrate problems, (g) reproductive problems suchas infertility, reduced sperm counts, PMS,spontaneous abortions, birthdefects, children with learning disabilities andlow IQ, etc. (h) chronic eyeconditions: inflammation/iritis/ astigmatism/myopia/cataracts/maculadegeneration , color blindedness, vision disturbances, etc. (i)stomach/digestive problems including leaky gut, malabsorption ofessentialminerals and essential fatty acids, blocked cellular enzymaticprocessesrelated to the ATPASE energy function and sulfur oxidation. Thereare extensive documented cases (many thousands) where removal ofamalgamfillings led to cure or significant improvement of these serioushealthproblems. Over 60,000 such clinical cases are compiled in thedocumentation asfollowed and compiled by doctors. The over 60,000 cases ofcure orsignificant improvements were not isolated cases of cures; the clinicalstudiesindicated a large majority of most such type cases treated showedsignificantimprovement.Mercury?s extreme cytotoxicity and neurotoxicity is amajorfactor in the neurological conditions, along with its inhibition ofbasicenzymatic cellular processes and effects on essential minerals andnutrients incells. Mercury is also documented to cause imbalances inneurotransmittersrelated to mood disorders. A direct mechanism involvingmercury?sinhibition of cellular enzymatic processes by binding with thehydroxylradical(SH) in amino acids appears to be a major part of the connectionto allergic/immune reactive conditions such as autism, schizophrenia, lupus, eczema and psoriasis, scleroderma, and allergies. Immune reactivity tomercuryhas been documented by immune reactivity tests to be a major factor inmany ofthe autoimmune conditions. The over 1000 peer reviewed studies mostlyeither Government studies orabstracted in the National Library ofMedicine(www.nlm.nih.gov/) document thatmost people with several amalgam dentalfillings get significant daily exposureto mercury that is the largest source ofmercury exposure for most people andoften above the Government health guidelinefor mercury. The reason for thehigh exposure levels from amalgam aremercury?s negative vapor pressure thatmeans it is constantly vaporizing, alongwith galvanic electric currents causedby mixed metals in the mouth that drivemercury and other metals into the body.These are easily measured which has beenwidely documented. The studies also document that mercury from amalgam orother sources such asfish crosses a woman?s placenta readily and accumulates tolevels in thefetus at levels usually higher than in the mother. And thatmercury in themother is transfered at significant levels to a brestfeedinginfant. The factthat children have been exposed to levels of highly toxicmercury thimerosal invaccinations well beyond Government health guidelines formercury is also welldocumented. Studies document that such mercury exposurescan causedevelopmental conditions and disorders such as autism, ADD,learningdisabilities, etc. The referenced medical studies also documentthe mechanism by which mercuryfrom amalgam or vaccines cause the above listedconditions, and over 60,000clinical cases of amalgam replacement that resultedin significant improvementor cure of the above listed conditions. The studies also document that due to the high daily exposure fromamalgampeople excrete high amounts of mercury into home and office sewers whichcauselevels in sewer plants to be high enough to contaminate with mercury mostofthe water bodies they empty into to the extent that fish and wildlifearecontaminated with dangerous levels of mercury. Over 20% of the lakes,allGreat lakes, 7% of U.S. river miles, and many bays are contaminated totheextent warnings have been issued to not eat the fish. Amalgam is documentedtobe a major source of mercury in many water bodies. References(1) Autism, ADD,and Pervasive … read more »

Response:

Jan, Do you agree with my concerns about the article? Two taps for yes, one tap for no, zero taps if you don’t understand the question. Have a nice day, sweetness and light. DE

Response:

The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together.

Proof?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Graig and Jan, Jan posted an extremely similar article before, but there are a few problems with it. I’ll re-post my concerns I put to Jan about this similar article, as I believe the same sentiments apply to the article you have offered. Here is what I posted a few weeks ago: Jan, You have offered this article yet again as evidence. After doing some research at your suggestion, I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams. The article does not distinguish between the toxicity (i.e. ranging from negligible to high) of elemental Hg with the toxicity Hg vapour, and with the toxicity with mercury alloys. I believe the article is deliberately written in this way for people to believe to toxicity of Hg vapour is the same as a mercury alloy or elemental mercury. As I tried to highlight before, the article is trying to compare apples with oranges.

It is your response which is misleading. Amalgams are the principle source of exposure in the population. Any chemist can put amalgams in solution and measure mercury vapor evaporating from the solution. If the solution is heated or acidic or if you place another metal in the solution then more vapor will be released. Dentists are required by law to dispose of scrap amalgam as a hazardous waste. So by federal law even the mercury alloy is too hazardous to flush down the toilet. Either the federal government is overreacting in response to scrap amalgam disposal or it is underreacting in response to dentists placing that amalgam in the mouth. Mercury amalgam cannot be both hazardous and safe. One of the regulatory policies must be in error: either the 19th-century dental practice is wrongheaded, or the late-20th-century amalgam disposal practice is wrongheaded. It is interesting to note that no pro-amalgamists have pointed out the hysteria in the government’s policy on scrap amalgam disposal. So the underlying sentiment in the pro-amalgamist seems to be a deep trust in old traditions and the intelligence of bureacracies, over and against a consistency of thought and logic demanded by individuals. When urinary excretions and blood measurements prove themselves to be erorenous indicators of mercury body burden, this doesn’t cause the pro-amalgamist to question the Science supporting amalgam safety. He cannot believe that a poison such as mercury can really hazardous when placed in the mouth. So now he must look at the particular compounds in which mercury may find itself in the body, with the effort of minimizing its toxicity, to maintain his believe in the wisdom of 19th-century dentists and the bureacratic mind.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Graig and Jan, Jan posted an extremely similar article before, but there are a few problems with it. I’ll re-post my concerns I put to Jan about this similar article, as I believe the same sentiments apply to the article you have offered. Here is what I posted a few weeks ago: Jan, You have offered this article yet again as evidence. After doing some research at your suggestion, I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams. The article does not distinguish between the toxicity (i.e. ranging from negligible to high) of elemental Hg with the toxicity Hg vapour, and with the toxicity with mercury alloys. I believe the article is deliberately written in this way for people to believe to toxicity of Hg vapour is the same as a mercury alloy or elemental mercury. As I tried to highlight before, the article is trying to compare apples with oranges. It is your response which is misleading. Amalgams are the principle source of exposure in the population. Any chemist can put amalgams in solution and measure mercury vapor evaporating from the solution. If the solution is heated or acidic or if you place another metal in the solution then more vapor will be released. Dentists are required by law to dispose of scrap amalgam as a hazardous waste. So by federal law even the mercury alloy is too hazardous to flush down the toilet. Either the federal government is overreacting in response to scrap amalgam disposal or it is underreacting in response to dentists placing that amalgam in the mouth. Mercury amalgam cannot be both hazardous and safe. One of the regulatory policies must be in error: either the 19th-century dental practice is wrongheaded, or the late-20th-century amalgam disposal practice is wrongheaded. It is interesting to note that no pro-amalgamists have pointed out the hysteria in the government’s policy on scrap amalgam disposal. So the underlying sentiment in the pro-amalgamist seems to be a deep trust in old traditions and the intelligence of bureacracies, over and against a consistency of thought and logic demanded by individuals. When urinary excretions and blood measurements prove themselves to be erorenous indicators of mercury body burden, this doesn’t cause the pro-amalgamist to question the Science supporting amalgam safety. He cannot believe that a poison such as mercury can really hazardous when placed in the mouth. So now he must look at the particular compounds in which mercury may find itself in the body, with the effort of minimizing its toxicity, to maintain his believe in the wisdom of 19th-century dentists and the bureacratic mind.

Here is an interesting article I found at http://yarchive.net/med/mercury.html Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition poisening) I have read claims that the vapor pressure of Hg can actually be measured in the mouth! If this is true, I will allow my wife to be alone with Clinton for a full half hour! In round numbers, the vp @ 30 deg C is 30 for water, .003 for Hg, and about 1/50 of that for silver. Surely in an amalgam, the vp would be closer to that of silver. It would seem, though, that fillings _are_ a long term and releasable repository of Hg. The question is, what are the molar amounts <get it– MOLAR!! huyuk!!, and what amounts are subclinically toxic to the body. Given that fillings do not seem to dissolve out of the tooth, at least not for a cupla hundred years, one could calculate a worst-case scenario for this release.

You can and it’s been done. Amalgam fillings do contribute to the body’s burdon of mercury, and this can be measured. The only problem is that the contribution is of the same order as random environmental stuff like how much fish you eat (even the best you can find), and whether or not you’re around mercury containing paints (outlawed only in 1986-7), etc. And last but not least is the levels of mercury in people with scads of fillings are WAY less (like 1%) than the levels permitted in industrial situations, which in turn are based on lots of toxicology with animals, and lots of experience with known mercury poisoning in humans. So it’s hard to get excited about amalgam fillings. If they’re doing everything they’re supposed to be doing, how come people who have 100 times more mercury in them from exposure on the job, aren’t all basket cases? Eh? Answer me that, oh anxious ones. And how come all these people who claim to be poisoned by their fillings don’t have any of the classic chronic poisoning symptoms, like acrodynia? It is the vapor of mercury and its ionic form that are particularly dangerous, as well as the methyl/alkyl forms. The merck says you can "occasionally" swallow Hg with no ill effects. Tonic, anyone? Of course, various mercury compounds have been used medicinally (tinctures, cathartics, emetics) for some time.

Basically, your body has the power to turn mercury vapor and mercury organics, into ionic-form mercury (the salt), if the load isn’t too large. And ionic mercury doesn’t get into the CNS too well. That means in practice that all those CNS effects of mercury you read of are either organic mercury poisonings, or massive mercury vapor inhalations (mercury as the metal vapor does cross into the CNS, if enough is given to overload the body’s oxidation system). Fortunately, not much metallic mercury is absorbed from single ingestions (somebody swallows a few drops from a thermometer, say). Mercury salts, and small long term exposure to vapor (fillings) would NOT be expected to cause problems in the brain or nervous system. It doesn’t happen that way in animals, and it doesn’t make sense from what we know about mercury. But that is exactly what the amalgam screamer people are claiming is happening. If they were all having renal problems and finger pain (ionic mercury tox symptoms), I’d find it all a *little* less preposterous, since anything they breathe from fillings is ALL going to get converted to ionic form, as the doses are so tiny. As it is, all the amalgam filling symptoms sound suspiciously like the symptoms of chronic fluoride and aspartame poisoning. And gulf war syndrome. And Xanax withdrawal. And all the symptoms you see in the placebo group of every drug experiment in the PDR. I should post all of these in several columns some time. Steve Harris, M.D. I trust you can understand what Steve Harris is saying here. rich — "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed, or numbered…My life is my own." "I am not a number. I am a free man." No. 6

Response:

Thank You Minorsev. Eager to hear all replies! Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Graig and Jan, Jan posted an extremely similar article before, but there are a few problems with it. I’ll re-post my concerns I put to Jan about this similar article, as I believe the same sentiments apply to the article you have offered. Here is what I posted a few weeks ago: Jan, You have offered this article yet again as evidence. After doing some research at your suggestion, I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams. The article does not distinguish between the toxicity (i.e. ranging from negligible to high) of elemental Hg with the toxicity Hg vapour, and with the toxicity with mercury alloys. I believe the article is deliberately written in this way for people to believe to toxicity of Hg vapour is the same as a mercury alloy or elemental mercury. As I tried to highlight before, the article is trying to compare apples with oranges. It is your response which is misleading. Amalgams are the principle source of exposure in the population. Any chemist can put amalgams in solution and measure mercury vapor evaporating from the solution. If the solution is heated or acidic or if you place another metal in the solution then more vapor will be released. Dentists are required by law to dispose of scrap amalgam as a hazardous waste. So by federal law even the mercury alloy is too hazardous to flush down the toilet. Either the federal government is overreacting in response to scrap amalgam disposal or it is underreacting in response to dentists placing that amalgam in the mouth. Mercury amalgam cannot be both hazardous and safe. One of the regulatory policies must be in error: either the 19th-century dental practice is wrongheaded, or the late-20th-century amalgam disposal practice is wrongheaded. It is interesting to note that no pro-amalgamists have pointed out the hysteria in the government’s policy on scrap amalgam disposal. So the underlying sentiment in the pro-amalgamist seems to be a deep trust in old traditions and the intelligence of bureacracies, over and against a consistency of thought and logic demanded by individuals. When urinary excretions and blood measurements prove themselves to be erorenous indicators of mercury body burden, this doesn’t cause the pro-amalgamist to question the Science supporting amalgam safety. He cannot believe that a poison such as mercury can really hazardous when placed in the mouth. So now he must look at the particular compounds in which mercury may find itself in the body, with the effort of minimizing its toxicity, to maintain his believe in the wisdom of 19th-century dentists and the bureacratic mind.

Response:

Jan, Would you like to respond to my concerns about the article in question? Have a nice day, sweetness and light. DE

Response:

Jan, Would you like to respond to my concerns about the article in question?

Mercury is Poisonous. There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue. The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together. <snip other smart alec remarks for DE who is now following me around and stalking since he and aloha Rich are busy e-mailing each other Jan

Response:

I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams.

Yep, and you also believe that vulgar webites should be recommended. Not to mention you believe aloha Rich’s lies EVEN after you read of his stalking me and his despicable behavior concerning my parents. It’s amazing what you believe and tells me all I need to know about you. Sweden didn’t ban them because they are safe, and you have not one single study proving them to be safe. Take a look at the loooonnngggggggg list of EPA guidelines to dispose this very same mercury that just came out of the mouth. THE FACTS ARE: Mercury is Poisonous. There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue. The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together. Jan

Response:

Graig and Jan, Jan posted an extremely similar article before, but there are a few problems with it. I’ll re-post my concerns I put to Jan about this similar article, as I believe the same sentiments apply to the article you have offered. Here is what I posted a few weeks ago: Jan, You have offered this article yet again as evidence. After doing some research at your suggestion, I believe the article is intended to mislead people (not inform) as to the safety or otherwise of mercury amalgams. The article does not distinguish between the toxicity (i.e. ranging from negligible to high) of elemental Hg with the toxicity Hg vapour, and with the toxicity with mercury alloys. I believe the article is deliberately written in this way for people to believe to toxicity of Hg vapour is the same as a mercury alloy or elemental mercury. As I tried to highlight before, the article is trying to compare apples with oranges. The concerns and fears people may have about mercury amalgams has lead to scientific research, such as: The amalgam controversy. An evidence-based analysis. Dodes JE. BACKGROUND: There are a number of patients and health care professionals who believe dental amalgam restorations are a factor in a host of diseases and conditions. They have been influenced by anecdotal case reports in the medical and dental literature, research published in the refereed literature and media stories concerning the alleged dangers of amalgam restorations. METHODS: The author uses an evidence-based approach in analyzing the data both supporting and condemning the continued use of amalgam restorations. He reviewed the articles from both peer-reviewed and non-peer-reviewed sources and evaluated their relevance, research design and statistical analysis, as well as whether the conclusions follow from the data. CONCLUSIONS: There are numerous logical and methodological errors in the anti-amalgam literature. The author concludes that the evidence supporting the safety of amalgam restorations is compelling. CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Amalgam restorations remain safe and effective. Dentists should educate patients and other health care professionals who may be mistakenly concerned about amalgam safety. Publication Types: Meta-Analysis J Am Dent Assoc 2001 Mar;132(3):348-56. It is interesting to note that after reviewing both peer-reviewed and non-peer reviewed jourmals ( an example of a non-peer reviewed journal would be Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine), JE Dodes came to the conclusion "…that the evidence supporting the safety of amalgam restorations is compelling." Furthermore, the credibility of the article you provided as evidence diminishes further in the reference section, as it fails to give the full-title of the article cited. For example: In the article the reference is cited as; Ref (22) A. Berglund, "A study of therelease of mercury vapor from different types of amalgam alloys", J Dent Res,1993, 72:939-946. The actual title is: "An in vitro and in vivo study of the release of mercury vapor from different types of amalgam alloys". Berglund A. J Dent Res 1993 May;72(5):939-46. Also, Ref (23) H. Lichtenberg, "Mercury vapor in the oral cavity in relation to the number of amalgam fillings and chronic mercury poisoning", Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1996, 11:2, 87-94. The actual title is: " Mercury Vapour in the Oral Cavity in Relation To the Number of Amalgam Surfaces and the Classic Symptoms of Chronic Mercury Poisoning" by H Lichtenberg, DDS. http://www.orthomed.org/jom/jom96.htm. (I would very much like to obtain a copy of this paper from the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, but they are asking for $2.50/copy (credit card only) and the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine is not listed on Pub Med, so I can

Category Categories: Chron's Disease | No Comments »

Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine

Question:

The Azulfedine is the enteric coated one. I wouldn’t even consider taking it in another form. It needs to wait to dissolve till it gets past the stomach. Jo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do I understand you correctly – that the Azulfedine actually helped your stomach? My doc suggested that it would possibly upset one’s stomach. Mark Absolutely. If you look it up, it is a treatment option for IBS and Chron’s Disease. Jo That’s interesting. I did look it up at www.rxlist.com and noticed it was used for ulcerative colitis, which isn’t exactly the same thing as IBS, but obviously it had some benefit for you. I notice that there is an enteric form that one can take which avoids some of the gastrointestinal problems associated with dosage levels of the drug. It does seem to be associated with stomach problems though if this information is correct, "The most common adverse reactions associated with sulfasalazine are anorexia, headache, nausea, vomiting, gastric distress, and apparently reversible oligospermia. These occur in about one-third of the patients." I also note it reduces the absorption of folic acid, as does methotrexate, so it looks like I will be possibly increasing my intake of folic acid even more. Thanks for the tip! Mark — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Do I understand you correctly – that the Azulfedine actually helped your stomach? My doc suggested that it would possibly upset one’s stomach. Mark Absolutely. If you look it up, it is a treatment option for IBS and Chron’s Disease. Jo

That’s interesting. I did look it up at www.rxlist.com and noticed it was used for ulcerative colitis, which isn’t exactly the same thing as IBS, but obviously it had some benefit for you. I notice that there is an enteric form that one can take which avoids some of the gastrointestinal problems associated with dosage levels of the drug. It does seem to be associated with stomach problems though if this information is correct, "The most common adverse reactions associated with sulfasalazine are anorexia, headache, nausea, vomiting, gastric distress, and apparently reversible oligospermia. These occur in about one-third of the patients." I also note it reduces the absorption of folic acid, as does methotrexate, so it looks like I will be possibly increasing my intake of folic acid even more. Thanks for the tip! Mark — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Mark, I had a queasy stomach after about the second 10 mg dose. It would start about 8 hours after I took the MTX and last for about 36 hours. Whatever part of that time I wasn’t queasy I’d have horrible heartburn. I don’t know if it is connected or not, but I also got some pretty nasty migraines then, too. Lindsey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At what particular level of the oral form did it upset your stomach? Mine seems to start to react when I try to go from 15mg to 17mg. And did it just cause queezy stomach or worse? Thanks, Mark Aly, I just switched from the pills to the injection about 5 weeks ago, and it has made a world of difference. Instead of spending my weekends home sick on the couch with an upset stomach I now have no GI side effects other than the fact I feel like I don’t want to eat the night I get my injection. I get kind of dizzy during the afternoon/evening of the day of the injection, but it is MUCH better than feeling the way I did on the oral MTX. The injections are nothing to worry about…once you do it a few times, you’ll be an old pro…:) Lindsey Hi Hope you don’t mind me replying to you – I’m a newbie with PA looking for info on MTX injections as I’m about to switch from the pills to shots (or jags as we Scots would say). I’ve got about 3 weeks before my first visit and the fear of the unknown is driving me mad – any advice or info you could give would me greatly appreciated. Thanks Aly If you are having tummy problems, try the injectible MTX. Easier on you when it doesnt have to pass through your gut, and the shots are really really simple. Hope the combo works wonders for you. Feel free to ask questions any time. There are a lot of veterans of the Arthritis Wars right here and will help anytime we can. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together." Red Green — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

I take both and felt the Azulfedine wasn’t doing much. When I quit taking it briefly, I discovered that while it doesn’t do much for my joints, it was doing wonders for my gut. It was a kind of backwards way of finding I have IBS, that all the upset wans’t just from all the meds I take. Jo

Do I understand you correctly – that the Azulfedine actually helped your stomach? My doc suggested that it would possibly upset one’s stomach. Mark — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I take both and felt the Azulfedine wasn’t doing much. When I quit taking it briefly, I discovered that while it doesn’t do much for my joints, it was doing wonders for my gut. It was a kind of backwards way of finding I have IBS, that all the upset wans’t just from all the meds I take. Jo Do I understand you correctly – that the Azulfedine actually helped your stomach? My doc suggested that it would possibly upset one’s stomach. Mark

Absolutely. If you look it up, it is a treatment option for IBS and Chron’s Disease. Jo

Response:

I take both and felt the Azulfedine wasn’t doing much. When I quit taking it briefly, I discovered that while it doesn’t do much for my joints, it was doing wonders for my gut. It was a kind of backwards way of finding I have IBS, that all the upset wans’t just from all the meds I take. Jo

That happened to me too, after I stopped taking sulfasalazine. I hadn’t realised how much it had improved my bowels until I stopped taking it. Jayne

Response:

Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ? Did you have any unpleasant side effects (stomach upset,etc)? Did you find it affected your liver enzymes or kidney function? My doc is considering combining my methotrexate with this drug to get me over some of my stiffness problems. Just wondered what your experiences were.

I take both and felt the Azulfedine wasn’t doing much. When I quit taking it briefly, I discovered that while it doesn’t do much for my joints, it was doing wonders for my gut. It was a kind of backwards way of finding I have IBS, that all the upset wans’t just from all the meds I take. Jo

Response:

Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ?

I started on sulfasalazine over 3 years ago and added mtx about a year later…been on both for going on 2 years. I’ve had no negative side effects with the sulfasalazine in the 3 years and other than a brief period of time recently haven’t had anything but slight grogginess the day after my mtx dose. Now I’m back to normal. Just be sure to drink a lot of water while on sulfasalazine or you may have some gastro distress. Good luck! Carol

Response:

Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ? Did you have any unpleasant side effects (stomach upset,etc)? Did you find it affected your liver enzymes or kidney function? My doc is considering combining my methotrexate with this drug to get me over some of my stiffness problems. Just wondered what your experiences were. Thanks, Mark

Hi Mark, I took them together for about 3 years and my doctor would not let me go above 20mg of Methx because of my liver would test higher as I increased Methx. I even took as high as 6-500mg of sulfsal without methx when methx started to loose its power in holding back my Ra but I had a really bad reaction to the sun, soooo it was back to Methx and stopped the sulfasalizine. Good luck with it. Harv

Response:

At what particular level of the oral form did it upset your stomach? Mine seems to start to react when I try to go from 15mg to 17mg. And did it just cause queezy stomach or worse? Thanks, Mark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aly, I just switched from the pills to the injection about 5 weeks ago, and it has made a world of difference. Instead of spending my weekends home sick on the couch with an upset stomach I now have no GI side effects other than the fact I feel like I don’t want to eat the night I get my injection. I get kind of dizzy during the afternoon/evening of the day of the injection, but it is MUCH better than feeling the way I did on the oral MTX. The injections are nothing to worry about…once you do it a few times, you’ll be an old pro…:) Lindsey Hi Hope you don’t mind me replying to you – I’m a newbie with PA looking for info on MTX injections as I’m about to switch from the pills to shots (or jags as we Scots would say). I’ve got about 3 weeks before my first visit and the fear of the unknown is driving me mad – any advice or info you could give would me greatly appreciated. Thanks Aly If you are having tummy problems, try the injectible MTX. Easier on you when it doesnt have to pass through your gut, and the shots are really really simple. Hope the combo works wonders for you. Feel free to ask questions any time. There are a lot of veterans of the Arthritis Wars right here and will help anytime we can. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together." Red Green

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Hi Aly-Welcome to ASA. I too have PA, and the shots are a breeze. After the first jab, you will wonder what all the fuss was about. You will do just great. If you need somebody to hold your hand, just holler. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together." Red Green

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Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ? Did you have any unpleasant side effects (stomach upset,etc)? Did you find it affected your liver enzymes or kidney function? My doc is considering combining my methotrexate with this drug to get me over some of my stiffness problems. Just wondered what your experiences were.

I’ve been on sulfasalazine for about 15 months and mtx for a year (along with plaquenil and celbrex). I’ve had no problems at all, but it hasn’t helped enough either. For me sulfasalazine did nothing when we added it to the plaquenil and I don’t really know if it’s been doing much in the combo. But some people are really helped by it. (I’m supposed to be dropping the sulfasalazine and plaquenil and adding arava, if the pharmacy can ever get the blasted arava from their supplier!) — Nann cut the Gator cheer to email me I like nonsense; it wakes up the brain cells. – Dr Seuss

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Aly, I just switched from the pills to the injection about 5 weeks ago, and it has made a world of difference. Instead of spending my weekends home sick on the couch with an upset stomach I now have no GI side effects other than the fact I feel like I don’t want to eat the night I get my injection. I get kind of dizzy during the afternoon/evening of the day of the injection, but it is MUCH better than feeling the way I did on the oral MTX. The injections are nothing to worry about…once you do it a few times, you’ll be an old pro…:) Lindsey

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Hope you don’t mind me replying to you – I’m a newbie with PA looking for info on MTX injections as I’m about to switch from the pills to shots (or jags as we Scots would say). I’ve got about 3 weeks before my first visit and the fear of the unknown is driving me mad – any advice or info you could give would me greatly appreciated. Thanks Aly If you are having tummy problems, try the injectible MTX. Easier on you when it doesnt have to pass through your gut, and the shots are really really simple. Hope the combo works wonders for you. Feel free to ask questions any time. There are a lot of veterans of the Arthritis Wars right here and will help anytime we can. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together." Red Green

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Aly, I just switched from the pills to the injection about 5 weeks ago, and it has made a world of difference. Instead of spending my weekends home sick on the couch with an upset stomach I now have no GI side effects other than the fact I feel like I don’t want to eat the night I get my injection. I get kind of dizzy during the afternoon/evening of the day of the injection, but it is MUCH better than feeling the way I did on the oral MTX. The injections are nothing to worry about…once you do it a few times, you’ll be an old pro…:) Lindsey

Lots of us who take the injections take them at bedtime for just these reasons. Jo

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Hope you don’t mind me replying to you – I’m a newbie with PA looking for info on MTX injections as I’m about to switch from the pills to shots (or jags as we Scots would say). I’ve got about 3 weeks before my first visit and the fear of the unknown is driving me mad – any advice or info you could give would me greatly appreciated.

I am on mtx injections, errr jags, and it was an good change. The shots cause less side effects and, for me, they have been more effective than the pills. The shots are easy just a small sub-q jab and your done. The needle goes in at a 45 degree angle under the skin. You shouldn’t have any problems with the injection; many of us are on the injections and are happy with the better results and fewer GI side effects. — MZ — Visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com

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Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ? Did you have any unpleasant side effects (stomach upset,etc)? Did you find it affected your liver enzymes or kidney function?

Hi Mark, I was on the above combo along with plaquenil and enbrel too at one point in time. No problems with my liver or kidney labs. ~KJ Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential. Tina’s eBay Auctions Plus Size and Vintage Clothing http://www.fadedjeans.com/tina/

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Hi Hope you don’t mind me replying to you – I’m a newbie with PA looking for info on MTX injections as I’m about to switch from the pills to shots (or jags as we Scots would say). I’ve got about 3 weeks before my first visit and the fear of the unknown is driving me mad – any advice or info you could give would me greatly appreciated. Thanks Aly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are having tummy problems, try the injectible MTX. Easier on you when it doesnt have to pass through your gut, and the shots are really really simple. Hope the combo works wonders for you. Feel free to ask questions any time. There are a lot of veterans of the Arthritis Wars right here and will help anytime we can. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together." Red Green

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Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ? Did you have any unpleasant side effects (stomach upset,etc)? Did you find it affected your liver enzymes or kidney function? My doc is considering combining my methotrexate with this drug to get me over some of my stiffness problems. Just wondered what your experiences were. Thanks, Mark — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Have any of you used the combo Methotrexate and Sulfasalazine ? Did you have any unpleasant side effects (stomach upset,etc)? Did you find it affected your liver enzymes or kidney function? Mark

Hi Mark, I’ve been on sulphasalazine for years and have been on both for the past 8 months, as well as prednisone and plaquenil. I haven’t had any problems whatsoever with the combination. MTX makes me nauseous and the work around for that, for me, is to take my shot just before I go to bed at night and then I sleep through that part of it. Anne AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.AZ http://www.tckworld.com/opfoot

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I have been on MTX, sulfasalzine for quite a while. About 2 yrs I think. The only problem I have is belching that sulfur taste once in a while. About a year ago we added Arava, and a few months ago added Enbrel, and the combination seems to be working fairly well for me. When we added Arava to the combo, my liver panel got out of whack. But I began taking milk thistle extract and it brought my liver panel back into line in one month. If you are having tummy problems, try the injectible MTX. Easier on you when it doesnt have to pass through your gut, and the shots are really really simple. Hope the combo works wonders for you. Feel free to ask questions any time. There are a lot of veterans of the Arthritis Wars right here and will help anytime we can. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’. We’re all in this together." Red Green

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