Question:

I am a runner with asthma.  The trick is to keep a safe distance from failure/exhaustion.  Of course, you have to get a little bit more tired in order to get stronger, but exercise-induced asthma will come on, for most of us, only at a certain level of exertion.  Therefore, I suggest you slow down your pace a little, or even a lot, and see how much farther you can go. I don’t know what your level or frequency of medication is, but I rarely (once or twice a year) need my inhaler when not running; I use it before my runs when I know I’m going to do a really taxing workout. -S- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have included running in my cardio workouts and I have improved from 1 block to 1 mile. Now, mind you, I would like to go further with a better time; however, my asthma impedes my progress.    Yes, I am on medications but there is a plateu I hit with my breathing. After 15 minutes, I start to wheeze.   I know sprinters can cope with asthma but how ’bout someone running long distance? I haven’t heard any asthamatics who runs long distance.   My questions are: 1.) Will my time and distance improve since I’ve been running for only a month and a half? 2.) For any asthmatics here, any tips to share or new medications I should try? Thanks

– Steve Freides

Response:

i have exercise-induced asthma, and i am on prescriptions of servent and flowvent inhalers.  it’s made a huge difference to me–before it was very difficult to adhere to a consistent exercise regimen. talk to your doctor. -rei – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have included running in my cardio workouts and I have improved from 1 block to 1 mile. Now, mind you, I would like to go further with a better time; however, my asthma impedes my progress.   Yes, I am on medications but there is a plateu I hit with my breathing. After 15 minutes, I start to wheeze.  I know sprinters can cope with asthma but how ’bout someone running long distance? I haven’t heard any asthamatics who runs long distance.  My questions are: 1.) Will my time and distance improve since I’ve been running for only a month and a half? 2.) For any asthmatics here, any tips to share or new medications I should try? Thanks

Response:

Do you have exercise induced asthma (EIB),  or chronic asthma? Depending on which, the answer will be different. If it is EIB, then the major issue is premedication with drugs such as Albuterol and/or Intal. The way to go longer, is in fact to go longer. You may want to intersperse periods of running (at a rate you can sustain, without inducing an attack) and walking.You will also, when fitter, throw in some faster running. You gotta do both. As you get fitter, you will walk less and run more. This has got to be combined with a sensible diet and some form of weight training. Over time, you should see steady improvement. If you have chronic asthma, the issue is more complex, because your respiratory system has been compromised by airway remodelling. Consequently, the maximal amount of air you can move while running is going to be limited. Regardless of how hard you train, your speed is going to be not as fast as you would otherwise be able to run. This being said, with proper medication, including some form of inhaled steroid, you should be able to do some nice distance work—–over time. You will have to compensate for a compromised respiratory system with excellent muscular efficiency and oxygen transport to the muscles. Part of the compensation mechanism is low body weight and increased heart stroke volumn (which will occur over time and alot of training). Running in itself does not alter the course of asthma, as a disease; you cannot undo prior damage to the respiratory system, but you can get awful fit and greatly increase the quality of your life. Proper medication is required if you want to limit further remodelling. I know this because I have had chronic asthma since age 4, or so, with an FEV1 30-50% of expected. By dint of pure effort – perhaps a massive case of overcompensation – in my late 20s, I ran marathons (can’t do it anymore), but can still run alot.  Any decent speed or distance is a thing of the past. So be it. The point is, even though you have asthma you can get extremely fit and run decently, if you want to take the time and effort. There is no magic, just patience and doing what can be done to help yourself. Good luck.

Response:

Do you have exercise induced asthma (EIB),  or chronic asthma? Depending on which, the answer will be different. If it is EIB, then the major issue is premedication with drugs such as Albuterol and/or Intal. The way to go longer, is in fact to go longer. You may want to intersperse periods of running (at a rate you can sustain, without inducing an attack) and walking.You will also, when fitter, throw in some faster running. You gotta do both. As you get fitter, you will walk less and run more. This has got to be combined with a sensible diet and some form of weight training. Over time, you should see steady improvement.

Generally, good advice, but I’d back off the "got to be" on the weight training.  It’s not necessary for anyone just trying to get a cardio/aerobic workout.  Nice if you have the time and discipline, but to all those thinking of running, just try it (with the usual check up with your Dr., etc.).  Weight training, while a good idea, is not a necessity.

Response:

Question:

I would nicely explain to her that you have slight allergies and had a reaction to the dryer sheet. If you sell also, I would suggest that you are telling her this so it doesn’t affect her sales.  I just purchased an item that a zipper broke off of a travel compartment, I let her know and she was very apologetic an offered a replacement from the last one she had left.  I refused knowing that she would be losing out on selling  that travel case.  She was VERY appreciative.  She may find it helpful! -Tracii (traciit)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just received a nice blouse today from a very nice seller.  The item was obviously clean and in very good condition, so I am happy and have left positive feedback.  However, in an effort to keep the item fresh, she inadvertently triggered an allergy attack that is still going strong about half an hour later.  :( She included a super fragrant dryer sheet in with the package. While I’m sure that a lot of people out there would appreciate this gesture, for me, it has meant half an hour of burning, itchy, watery eyes.  I have slight fragrance allergies and often have difficulty with detergents, etc., but I’ve never had the effects of an attack last this long.  I want to tell her that she might want to start mentioning that she does this in her auction text lest she trigger a severe attack in someone whose allergies are worse than mine, but I don’t want to insult her in the process. Any suggestions?  Should I bring this to her attention or just let it go? — Life would be great if it weren’t | If I want to hear the for all these people…sometimes  | pitter patter of I don’t know whether to laugh,    | little feet, I’ll put cry, or slit my wrists.           | shoes on my cats.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just received a nice blouse today from a very nice seller.  The item was obviously clean and in very good condition, so I am happy and have left positive feedback.  However, in an effort to keep the item fresh, she inadvertently triggered an allergy attack that is still going strong about half an hour later.  :( She included a super fragrant dryer sheet in with the package.   While I’m sure that a lot of people out there would appreciate this gesture, for me, it has meant half an hour of burning, itchy, watery eyes.  I have slight fragrance allergies and often have difficulty with detergents, etc., but I’ve never had the effects of an attack last this long.  I want to tell her that she might want to start mentioning that she does this in her auction text lest she trigger a severe attack in someone whose allergies are worse than mine, but I don’t want to insult her in the process. Any suggestions?  Should I bring this to her attention or just let it go?

Hi, I can sure relate to this one. I have chronic asthma along with allergies to many different fragrances that will set of my asthma. In large buildings I have had to let several elevators go without me because of those woman who seem to dump half a bottle of perfume on themselves.. I would let this one go. She had no idea of your allergies, and most people don’t have a problem with these type of things. I would suggest putting together a text file explaining your allergies and how you would prefer to receive articles of clothing… then when you buy more in the future you can pass it along to your seller. (Copy and paste into your email or use it as an alternate sig file). You just reminded me I better get all my medications ready.. the worst time for me is spring with all the pollen. Yuck! See who I will and will not buy from on eBay: http://k6az.home.mindspring.com/sellers.htm The Great Fraud in eBay Coin Auctions: http://k6az.home.mindspring.com/dealnet.htm

Response:

On the subject of auctions and perfume… I bought a vintage dress once, and when I received it I could have died this dress reeked of perfume so bad. I couldn’t even take it all the way out of the box. One of the warehouse boys at my office was able to take it and hang it on a hanger in the warehouse. I think I bought it a year or two ago and it still smells. Its became our rat repellant. I can’t get close enought to tell if it was ever washed or dry cleaned but nothing should ever smelled that strong. Christine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just received a nice blouse today from a very nice seller.  The item was obviously clean and in very good condition, so I am happy and have left positive feedback.  However, in an effort to keep the item fresh, she inadvertently triggered an allergy attack that is still going strong about half an hour later.  :( She included a super fragrant dryer sheet in with the package. While I’m sure that a lot of people out there would appreciate this gesture, for me, it has meant half an hour of burning, itchy, watery eyes.  I have slight fragrance allergies and often have difficulty with detergents, etc., but I’ve never had the effects of an attack last this long.  I want to tell her that she might want to start mentioning that she does this in her auction text lest she trigger a severe attack in someone whose allergies are worse than mine, but I don’t want to insult her in the process. Any suggestions?  Should I bring this to her attention or just let it go? Hi, I can sure relate to this one. I have chronic asthma along with allergies to many different fragrances that will set of my asthma. In large buildings I have had to let several elevators go without me because of those woman who seem to dump half a bottle of perfume on themselves.. I would let this one go. She had no idea of your allergies, and most people don’t have a problem with these type of things. I would suggest putting together a text file explaining your allergies and how you would prefer to receive articles of clothing… then when you buy more in the future you can pass it along to your seller. (Copy and paste into your email or use it as an alternate sig file). You just reminded me I better get all my medications ready.. the worst time for me is spring with all the pollen. Yuck!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See who I will and will not buy from on eBay: http://k6az.home.mindspring.com/sellers.htm The Great Fraud in eBay Coin Auctions: http://k6az.home.mindspring.com/dealnet.htm

Response:

On the subject of auctions and perfume… I bought a vintage dress once, and when I received it I could have died this dress reeked of perfume so bad. I couldn’t even take it all the way out of the box. One of the warehouse boys at my office was able to take it and hang it on a hanger in the warehouse. I think I bought it a year or two ago and it still smells. Its became our rat repellant. I can’t get close enought to tell if it was ever washed or dry cleaned but nothing should ever smelled that strong. Christine

Oh Man, that would have killed me. Did you try to salvage it by washing? Or was the smell so bad it wouldn’t come out? Imagine suffering from asthma on a day when it is 100 degrees and having to ride in an elevator with a woman that is wearing a whole bottle of perfume.. YUCK! BTW I am sure it works great as a rat pepellent! See who I will and will not buy from on eBay: http://k6az.home.mindspring.com/sellers.htm The Great Fraud in eBay Coin Auctions: http://k6az.home.mindspring.com/dealnet.htm

Response:

Just received a nice blouse today from a very nice seller.  The item was obviously clean and in very good condition, so I am happy and have left positive feedback.  However, in an effort to keep the item fresh, she inadvertently triggered an allergy attack that is still going strong about half an hour later.  :( She included a super fragrant dryer sheet in with the package.   While I’m sure that a lot of people out there would appreciate this gesture, for me, it has meant half an hour of burning, itchy, watery eyes.  I have slight fragrance allergies and often have difficulty with detergents, etc., but I’ve never had the effects of an attack last this long.  I want to tell her that she might want to start mentioning that she does this in her auction text lest she trigger a severe attack in someone whose allergies are worse than mine, but I don’t want to insult her in the process. Any suggestions?  Should I bring this to her attention or just let it go? — Life would be great if it weren’t | If I want to hear the for all these people…sometimes  | pitter patter of I don’t know whether to laugh,    | little feet, I’ll put cry, or slit my wrists.           | shoes on my cats.

Response:

Any suggestions?  Should I bring this to her attention or just let it go?

  My suggestion is to always mention it in any clothing auctions you win, sending e-mail to the seller.  As for this seller, you might bring it up tactfully, make sure there’s no blame attached but that she might want to consider allergies in the future.    Stacia  *  The Avocado Avenger  *  Life is a tale told by an idiot;      http://www.io.com/~stacia/    *      Full of sound and fury,    There is no guacamole anywhere. *        Signifying nothing.

Response:

Any suggestions?  Should I bring this to her attention or just let it go?

I’d politely let her know the situation so she can decide wether to ask future bidders about wether they’d like the fragrant dryer sheet in with their package, if someone before you had told the seller about an allergy attack and the seller then asked you if you’d like the fragrant sheet or not I think you’d probably be greatful that you were asked. In the UK (probably US too) packaging of some food products (especially on supermarket made foods, bread etc.) state that due to the manufacturing process they cannot be 100% sure that any peanut / peanut extracts are in the food product, the statement is a warning to peanut allergy suffers, which, in extreme circumstances can die from being in contact with small amounts of peanut. Also we’re warned if any strobe lighting effects are going to be shown in a tv program just before the program starts (ie nightclub shows, x-files etc.) due to epilepsy suffers, I remember seeing the news last year (or was it the year before) about how hundreds (thousands?) of japanese kids suffered epileptic fits after a certain Pokemon (I think it was) episode was shown which contained some red/blue strobing. In simpler terms, better to be safe than sorry — Rid http://www.ridhughz.demon.co.uk/ebay/

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Question:

Here is additional information on the use of cyclosporine in steroid-resistant asthma from Medscape: Section 11.6 Cyclosporine The immunosuppressive agent cyclosporin A (CsA) inhibits mediator release from mast cells and basophils and inhibits the syntheses of lymphokines, with the subsequent down-regulation of CD4+ T-lymphocyte as playing a critical role in chronic asthma, a number of investigators have evaluated cyclosporine in steroid-dependent asthma. Alexander et al conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover trial of cyclosporine (initial 2-week washout period). In 30 of 33 patients in the cyclosporine group, the peak expiratory flow rate and FEV1 increased significantly and the frequency of disease exacerbations was 48% lower. Corticosteroid dosage reduction was not attempted in this study. More recently, Lock et al conducted a 36-week, placebo-controlled, randomized, double-blind trial using CsA (5 mg/kg/d) in 39 steroid-dependent asthmatic patients. The 16/19 patients who completed CsA therapy achieved a significant reduction in prednisone dosage of 62% (10 mg to 3.5 mg) compared with 25% (10 mg to 7.5 mg) in the placebo group (p = 0.04). Side effects occurred more often in the CsA group but these did not require withdrawal from the study. The well-known side effects of CsA include:   a.. Hypertension   b.. Hypertrichosis   c.. Neurological disturbances   d.. Nephrotoxicity. Overall, no alternative anti-inflammatory agent has been proven to be superior to steroids in the treatment of asthma and the use of these therapies should be restricted to clinical trials only.

Response:

Thanks again Allen.  I’ve no basic education in the natural sciences or higher math so it’s a stretch for me to crunch this stuff.  Your presentation is quite clear.

Response:

Question:

It could be the eyes dilating, {sometimes}, I was told visual disturbances were, {in the absence of other medical problems}, due to: Panic/Anxiety disorder, fluctuations in blood pressure, fluctuations in blood sugar, this was told to me by an eye doc. I noticed once on my four-year-old, right after he took some Albuterol from his nebulizer, {he has moderate to chronic asthma,AND anxiety!}, that is pupils were dilated. I never noticed this before when he took these meds, only that particular time because he was more anxious than usual after his treatment.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writing on a page half of it would fade away, like a mirage type thing. I think it has something to do with the eyes dialating when your anxious and also I noticed it more the more my thoughts were racing. how about the feeling when cars are passing bye? i get dizzy sometimes and a sick feeling in my stomach ~~Austin~~

Response:

Okay, when anyone gets those stressful headaches. Does your vision get whacked? Shoot, I am sitting there and looking down, and the fact that it feels like my bed is moving, doesnt make me feel much better. ~~Austin~~

Response:

Absolutely Austin Mine goes just like that and gets real blurry sometimes too. Ditto, hope that helps? — Ray Carol and Ray Blackmoore Stressed depressed? http://roads.to/panic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, when anyone gets those stressful headaches. Does your vision get whacked? Shoot, I am sitting there and looking down, and the fact that it feels like my bed is moving, doesnt make me feel much better. ~~Austin~~

Response:

Okay, when anyone gets those stressful headaches. Does your vision get whacked? Shoot, I am sitting there and looking down, and the fact that it feels like my bed is moving, doesnt make me feel much better. ~~Austin~~

Yes Austin, and it apeared as things would move at the corner of my vision. Also looking at checkered stuff or writing on a page half of it would fade away, like a mirage type thing. I think it has something to do with the eyes dialating when your anxious and also I noticed it more the more my thoughts were racing. Charla

Response:

writing on a page half of it would fade away, like a mirage type thing. I think it has something to do with the eyes dialating when your anxious and also I noticed it more the more my thoughts were racing.

how about the feeling when cars are passing bye? i get dizzy sometimes and a sick feeling in my stomach ~~Austin~~

Response:

writing on a page half of it would fade away, like a mirage type thing. I think it has something to do with the eyes dialating when your anxious and also I noticed it more the more my thoughts were racing. how about the feeling when cars are passing bye? i get dizzy sometimes and a sick feeling in my stomach ~~Austin~~

That, blurry vision, dizziness to the point where the room seems like an undulating sea, you name it I have (had) it and I guess many of us will recognize these symptoms. Philip

Response:

Whacked is a good word, so is hazy, fuzzy, "looking through dirty Mylar", yesterday, my dirty laundry was on the floor, sorted, waiting to be washed, and IT was moving!!!!! For real!! And this is with/without headaches both!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, when anyone gets those stressful headaches. Does your vision get whacked? Shoot, I am sitting there and looking down, and the fact that it feels like my bed is moving, doesnt make me feel much better. ~~Austin~~

Response:

Question:

I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure. My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.  My RD was out of town and my GP is eager to do whatever I tell him to do but he knows almost nothing about RA and absolutely nothing about remicade and I was lost.  We stopped MTX (actually I had stopped the week before when it first began hurting) and I continued on my standard meds (prozac, celebrex, folic acid, etc.) and it’s in between remicade treatments.  For three days we did intensive IV push antibiotics on 3 hour schedules. It hasn’t helped at all but the IV continuous fluids did solve the dehydration problem and I can swallow liquids on my own. Doc sent me home this morning and said it may take 2 weeks before I feel any better and to let him know after 2 weeks how I’m doing. My RD won’t be back until Monday.  I need input.  This is a teeny tiny town and I actually caught them twice giving me the wrong dosage of meds. I argued with one, my only argument being that my pills had blue stripes and hers had yellow stripes and I wasn’t taking her damn pills hehehe.  If I don’t tell them "Run this test" or "Do this next" it doesn’t get done here. I still feel like crap and I’m taking Cipo 1000 mg/day and doc says to start back on MTX this week. Hello????? This has me worried. — Christy "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional." Funbugs!!!! Win cash every week playing fun games! http://www.funbug.com/fun/fb_entry?LSID=16773 SWGA Boxer Rescue  www.swgaboxerrescue.org Like to eBay? Visit my auction page! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/christyd8/ Support and Hope for Autoimmune Diseases  http://disabilities-us.com/shad/

Response:

dangerous. When will your RD be back?  Two weeks sound like way too much time to go by.  And you are right, I would be worried starting the MTX again until you here from your RD. Did anyone ever figure out what was wrong? Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure. My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.  My RD was out of town and my GP is eager to do whatever I tell him to do but he knows almost nothing about RA and absolutely nothing about remicade and I was lost.  We stopped MTX (actually I had stopped the week before when it first began hurting) and I continued on my standard meds (prozac, celebrex, folic acid, etc.) and it’s in between remicade treatments.  For three days we did intensive IV push antibiotics on 3 hour schedules. It hasn’t helped at all but the IV continuous fluids did solve the dehydration problem and I can swallow liquids on my own. Doc sent me home this morning and said it may take 2 weeks before I feel any better and to let him know after 2 weeks how I’m doing. My RD won’t be back until Monday.  I need input.  This is a teeny tiny town and I actually caught them twice giving me the wrong dosage of meds. I argued with one, my only argument being that my pills had blue stripes and hers had yellow stripes and I wasn’t taking her damn pills hehehe.  If I don’t tell them "Run this test" or "Do this next" it doesn’t get done here. I still feel like crap and I’m taking Cipo 1000 mg/day and doc says to start back on MTX this week. Hello????? This has me worried. — Christy "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional." Funbugs!!!! Win cash every week playing fun games! http://www.funbug.com/fun/fb_entry?LSID=16773 SWGA Boxer Rescue  www.swgaboxerrescue.org Like to eBay? Visit my auction page! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/christyd8/ Support and Hope for Autoimmune Diseases  http://disabilities-us.com/shad/

Response:

My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.

Christy, Did you have any other signs of infection? After 3 days of IV antibiotics I would think you would feel at least a little improvement. I am wondering if the pharyngitis is actually inflammation from the RA, not infection. Call your RD Monday, holiday or no holiday and ask his advice about the pharyngitis and whether or not you should take the mtx. ~Krissy See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential.

Response:

I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure.

Christy: If your RA isn’t acting up too badly, then I would wait before starting the mtx again. What dosage of Mtx are you on? I am thinking that probably the remicade is controlling the RA now, and that the mtx is more for the prevention of antibodies to the remicade. At any rate I think that you should see what your Rd has to say before restarting the MTX. Rose

Response:

Nothing yet. It isn’t as swollen as it was (I swear you couldn’t see my earlobes!) but it still hurts. My brilliant idea was to order pizza for dinner last night. One bite and I was back to jello.  My RD comes back tomorrow so I’ll be first in the door!  I agree with you about the MTX and I haven’t taken any more and won’t until I talk to the doc. I might flare without it but I won’t die. This was a definite eye-opener as to how unprepared I am for something to happen and how uneducated my local doctors are. Christy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dangerous. When will your RD be back?  Two weeks sound like way too much time to go by.  And you are right, I would be worried starting the MTX again until you here from your RD. Did anyone ever figure out what was wrong? Duckie I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure. My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.  My RD was out of town and my GP is eager to do whatever I tell him to do but he knows almost nothing about RA and absolutely nothing about remicade and I was lost.  We stopped MTX (actually I had stopped the week before when it first began hurting) and I continued on my standard meds (prozac, celebrex, folic acid, etc.) and it’s in between remicade treatments.  For three days we did intensive IV push antibiotics on 3 hour schedules. It hasn’t helped at all but the IV continuous fluids did solve the dehydration problem and I can swallow liquids on my own. Doc sent me home this morning and said it may take 2 weeks before I feel any better and to let him know after 2 weeks how I’m doing. My RD won’t be back until Monday.  I need input.  This is a teeny tiny town and I actually caught them twice giving me the wrong dosage of meds. I argued with one, my only argument being that my pills had blue stripes and hers had yellow stripes and I wasn’t taking her damn pills hehehe.  If I don’t tell them "Run this test" or "Do this next" it doesn’t get done here. I still feel like crap and I’m taking Cipo 1000 mg/day and doc says to start back on MTX this week. Hello????? This has me worried. — Christy "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional." Funbugs!!!! Win cash every week playing fun games! http://www.funbug.com/fun/fb_entry?LSID=16773 SWGA Boxer Rescue  www.swgaboxerrescue.org Like to eBay? Visit my auction page! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/christyd8/ Support and Hope for Autoimmune Diseases

http://disabilities-us.com/shad/

Response:

Funny you should ask.  I kept saying there was something else because my temp was, at highest, 99.6 and usually around 97-98 this entire time.  The antibiotics are doing nothing it seems. I’m convinced whatever the swelling is would have decreased this small amount on it’s own anyway.  I was soooooo tired (sounds like a flare huh????) and they kept telling me that was the infection and fever but I didn’t have a fever.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration. Christy, Did you have any other signs of infection? After 3 days of IV antibiotics I would think you would feel at least a little improvement. I am wondering if the pharyngitis is actually inflammation from the RA, not infection. Call your RD Monday, holiday or no holiday and ask his advice about the pharyngitis and whether or not you should take the mtx. ~Krissy See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential.

Response:

Yes, in the hospital I was on IV push Cipro and now on oral 1000mg/day Cipro and no change yet.  The swelling is down from when I went into the hospital but no voice and it still feels like I have a boiled egg sitting there. RD comes back at 9:30 this morning!!!!!!! Woohooooooo Thanks guys!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it should be likely be regarded as infective unless proven otherwise I presume you are on an antibiotic? regards drdoc www.arthritis.co.za Nothing yet. It isn’t as swollen as it was (I swear you couldn’t see my earlobes!) but it still hurts. My brilliant idea was to order pizza for dinner last night. One bite and I was back to jello.  My RD comes back tomorrow so I’ll be first in the door!  I agree with you about the MTX and I haven’t taken any more and won’t until I talk to the doc. I might flare without it but I won’t die. This was a definite eye-opener as to how unprepared I am for something to happen and how uneducated my local doctors are. Christy dangerous. When will your RD be back?  Two weeks sound like way too much time to go by.  And you are right, I would be worried starting the MTX again until you here from your RD. Did anyone ever figure out what was wrong? Duckie I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure. My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.  My RD was out of town and my GP is eager to do whatever I tell him to do but he knows almost nothing about RA and absolutely nothing about remicade and I was lost.  We stopped MTX (actually I had stopped the week before when it first began hurting) and I continued on my standard meds (prozac, celebrex, folic acid, etc.) and it’s in between remicade treatments.  For three days we did intensive IV push antibiotics on 3 hour schedules. It hasn’t helped at all but the IV continuous fluids did solve the dehydration problem and I can swallow liquids on my own. Doc sent me home this morning and said it may take 2 weeks before I feel any better and to let him know after 2 weeks how I’m doing. My RD won’t be back until Monday.  I need input.  This is a teeny tiny town and I actually caught them twice giving me the wrong dosage of meds. I argued with one, my only argument being that my pills had blue stripes and hers had yellow stripes and I wasn’t taking her damn pills hehehe.  If I don’t tell them "Run this test" or "Do this next" it doesn’t get done here. I still feel like crap and I’m taking Cipo 1000 mg/day and doc says to start back on MTX this week. Hello????? This has me worried. — Christy "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional." Funbugs!!!! Win cash every week playing fun games! http://www.funbug.com/fun/fb_entry?LSID=16773 SWGA Boxer Rescue  www.swgaboxerrescue.org Like to eBay? Visit my auction page! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/christyd8/ Support and Hope for Autoimmune Diseases http://disabilities-us.com/shad/

Response:

 My RD comes back tomorrow so I’ll be first in the door!  I agree with you about the MTX and I haven’t taken any more and won’t until I talk to the doc. I might flare without it but I won’t die.

I get arthur in my throat, sometimes I think I have a sore throat but there are no other symptoms, including fever.  A couple times I tried an increase in prednisone, and it helped.  Good luck hope you get some answers. — MZ

Response:

{{{{{{christy}}}}}}} I lost my voice several times since May. RA is in my throat cartilage lots of prednisone helped. My ENT wanted to inject into my throat but I chicked out<g Belinda hang in there

Response:

it should be likely be regarded as infective unless proven otherwise I presume you are on an antibiotic? regards drdoc www.arthritis.co.za

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing yet. It isn’t as swollen as it was (I swear you couldn’t see my earlobes!) but it still hurts. My brilliant idea was to order pizza for dinner last night. One bite and I was back to jello.  My RD comes back tomorrow so I’ll be first in the door!  I agree with you about the MTX and I haven’t taken any more and won’t until I talk to the doc. I might flare without it but I won’t die. This was a definite eye-opener as to how unprepared I am for something to happen and how uneducated my local doctors are. Christy dangerous. When will your RD be back?  Two weeks sound like way too much time to go by.  And you are right, I would be worried starting the MTX again until you here from your RD. Did anyone ever figure out what was wrong? Duckie I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure. My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.  My RD was out of town and my GP is eager to do whatever I tell him to do but he knows almost nothing about RA and absolutely nothing about remicade and I was lost.  We stopped MTX (actually I had stopped the week before when it first began hurting) and I continued on my standard meds (prozac, celebrex, folic acid, etc.) and it’s in between remicade treatments.  For three days we did intensive IV push antibiotics on 3 hour schedules. It hasn’t helped at all but the IV continuous fluids did solve the dehydration problem and I can swallow liquids on my own. Doc sent me home this morning and said it may take 2 weeks before I feel any better and to let him know after 2 weeks how I’m doing. My RD won’t be back until Monday.  I need input.  This is a teeny tiny town and I actually caught them twice giving me the wrong dosage of meds. I argued with one, my only argument being that my pills had blue stripes and hers had yellow stripes and I wasn’t taking her damn pills hehehe.  If I don’t tell them "Run this test" or "Do this next" it doesn’t get done here. I still feel like crap and I’m taking Cipo 1000 mg/day and doc says to start back on MTX this week. Hello????? This has me worried. — Christy "Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional." Funbugs!!!! Win cash every week playing fun games! http://www.funbug.com/fun/fb_entry?LSID=16773 SWGA Boxer Rescue  www.swgaboxerrescue.org Like to eBay? Visit my auction page! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/christyd8/ Support and Hope for Autoimmune Diseases http://disabilities-us.com/shad/

Response:

I’m with Krissy.  Sounds like your RA to me.  CALL THAT DOCTOR! Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

I just came home today from a miserable 3 day hospital adventure. My throat swelled up and looked like I had swallowed a football. The dx by my GP is extreme pharyngitis and dehydration.  My RD was out of town and my GP is eager to do whatever I tell him to do but he knows almost nothing about RA and absolutely nothing about remicade and I was lost.  We stopped MTX (actually I had stopped the week before when it first began hurting) and I continued on my standard meds (prozac, celebrex, folic acid, etc.) and it’s in between remicade treatments.

This thread reminds me how much I owe all you guys.  Doctors aren’t always good about telling us stuff (and we aren’t all great at really listening.) I had a nuisance cough before Christmas that turned into a whopping case of bronchitis Christmas Eve.  And I suspect that the Saturday dose of MTX before that gave it the push it needed to get going.  None of my REAL doctors are available but at least I’m reminded on the group that the MTX waits till they get back and say OK before I take any more of it. It was funny, as soon as the infection got really going, my hands stopped hurting.  I couldn’t take the antibiotic I had on hand (Bactrim – pre MTX supply) so waited till the morning after Christmas to get in to the on call Doc for something else.  And I’m thinking that this is a cool autoimmune response, that my body is fighting the infection and leaving itself alone right?  Took a few days for it to dawn on me that maybe it was the 60mgs of prednisone I took so I’d keep breathing!  (I have chronic asthma and always start 20MG a day if there is unusual breathing difficulty) It hasn’t been a fun week but at least we got thru Christmas before everybody got sick (Husband, SIL and grandsons came down with the same thing).  And we are all on the mend now. — Jo Firey

Response:

Question:

Remember that an MD is a specialist. MD means medical doctor.  After all, vitamin doctor would be VD, and who wants that? Thank you for the post. — Over 130 articles (indexed by topic, or keyword with an on-site search engine) plus nearly 1,400 scientific references on nutritional therapeutics are posted at http://doctoryourself.com  Links to other clinical nutrition and alternative medicine sites are provided. Incidentally, I have no financial connection whatsoever with the supplement industry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Indeed the modern physician now only represents an extension of these industries into the public."–Carl Reich The Goose and the Golden Eggs by Carl Reich, M.D. F.R.C.P. The current century will be looked upon as the period in which man made his greatest progress, utilizing science to make advances in every aspect of his existence, from metalurgy to the plastics industry and from the fields of education and communication to health care. In this latter instance, when I first began the study of medicine in 1938, the trend then, already was to interject science into the art of medicine. The leaders in medicine then, who were my teachers, did so willingly with the prediction and with the promise of great advances, especially in the development of scientific diagnostic methods and in the development of new drug therapies. In this latter area of drug therapy, one cannot question that the then infant pharmaceutical industry recognised that it could best advance the main reason for it’s existence, which was increasing investor’s profits and the expansion of the industry by the introduction of new drug therapies. Thus, this industry did with the approval of the profession. by supporting the scientific research of disease, especially that which would lend to the profession’s acceptance of a new drug therapy. Almost of necessity, this inroad of science involved a disregard of clinical medicine, which in essence is a study of the association of physical and functional alterations of the body. All emphasis, instead, was directed towards making a scientific diagnosis and to applying a scientific therapy of a synthesized drug. This influence reached such proportions that for decades very many research projects conducted in Canada’s medical schools were financed entirely or at least in part, by the pharmaceutical industry and reflected an emphasis on scientific methods. A highly specialized group of representatives of the various pharmaceutical industries, especially trained to promote research on new drugs fronted this attack on the profession. These men brought promises of grants in aid of research to the heads of the various departments of medical schools, such as to the professors and the associate professors of internal medicine, paediatrics, obstetrics, surgery et cetera. if these physicans would research a therapy which involved the use of a drug which had been created and patented by the drug company. No less vigorous in the assault on the medical schools were the representatives of companies manufacturing scientific laboratory equipment. designed to provide exact and indisputable scientific diagnosis of disease. The net result of such a scientific assault was that functional improvement, such as the relief of distress or suffering, was disregarded as an inexact index of the efficiency of a therapy, for it could not be measured in linear mass or volumetric fashion. Moreover, since all emphasis was made on scientific patented therapies, and since elements of good nutrition could not be patented, the effect of nutrition on health was steadfastly and purposely avoided. Just as it became the accepted attitude of the public towards science, to adopt scientific things and accomplishments as being vastly superior to all that pre-existed the scientific era, so it became equally acceptable to the leaders of the profession to adopt these offerings of these two massive industries. The amalgamation of these industries, and of medicine, therefore, proceeded to such a degree that over the past five decades, medicine has largely been fashioned to become an instrument to utilize the services of these industries. Indeed the modern physician now only represents an extension of these industries into the public. Modern medicine therefore has been greatly altered by the profession, but only as the profession acted in response to or was guided by the pharmaceutical and diagnostic laboratory equipment industries. Under such care or guidance, medicine has now become fashioned into the proverbial goose that lays golden eggs for these industries! In this instance, the golden eggs are either a new drug therapy or a new scientific laboratory test, which therapy or test were first tested and approved by the medical profession within the industries and within the medical science centres of universities, and then used on the public by the profession at large. There are those who will object to this viewpoint, saying that such an obvious creation could not be produced and would not endure if it were not in keeping with better health care and that if it were otherwise it would soon be found out by the profession or the public, to soon be discarded. Such surveillance of this creation however, is not possible for, as this influence of science grew, so was its control of the special area of scientific medical investigation removing it from the marketplace of medical practice. Such control naturally largely meant the control of government and of private funding of medical research. Such control was neatly and effectively introduced, and ever since firmly maintained, by the introduction by this elite of the dictum, that no medical research project was worth the paper it was written on unless it was proven either by scientific blind study, or preferably, by ultra-scientific double- blind, study. Also such study should be concerned with objective findings which could be measured either by linear volumetric or mass measurement. The net result of the enforcement of these criteria on medical research was that statements of functional improvement which resulted from a particular therapy, such as degrees of relief in the suffering of chronic asthma. were rejected and scientific data was insisted upon. The reasons given for such rejection was that such functional modalities were subject to misinterpretation both by the patient and by the physician and therefore of necessity, were inexact and non-scientific. Such insistance on scientific guidelines has, therefore, firmly placed all medical research into the hands of the scientific elite and therefore under the influence of the pharamaceutical industry. Another influence stabilizing the encroachment of science into the field of medicine has been the method of administration of the self-regulatory medical profession which includes "peer group review without appeal". By this mechanism, physicians who dared deviate from the accepted transition or conversion of the art of medicine. into a science by performing clinical research in their practices on the effect of good nutrition on health and on the effect of therapy of disease with vitamins, frequently saw their constitutional rights of practice removed from them by their peers. Despite the fact that this disaster happened only occasionally within the profession in Canada, its rare occurrence was still very adequate to emphatically remind the rank and file of the profession, that it would only profit them to forsake clinical medicine and instead to pursue the sacred cow of science. "WHO WOULD KILL THE GOOSE" If I were an artist and were to caricaturize this analogy I would depict two individuals looking at a goose labelled. "Medical Profession", in a padlocked cage labelled. "The Medical Establishment". There are three golden eggs in the cage, two labelled. "Drug Therapy". and one. "Scientific Diagnostic Tests". The eggs are held in a container

labelled. "Professional – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Approval". A lock, identical with the lock on the cage also locks this container. The goose is eating from a small trough. It, or the food it contains is labelled, "Grants in aid of scientific research". One of the individual viewing the cage is labelled, "The Pharmaceutical Industry". Smiling and unconcerned he holds a key in one hand. The key is labelled. "M.R.C.". which is an abbreviation for Medical Research Council. In his other hand he holds a container of food. It or the food it contains is labelled, "grants in aid of scientific research". The other individual labelled. "Joe Public", with a worried and concerned look on his face holds an axe in one hand labelled, "Revolutionary Reform", and in the other hand holds a food container labelled, "Non-monetary Based Incentives for Research". This caricature represents a pharmaceutical industry which is unconcerned for it is confident that it has so nurtured and guided the evolution of the profession that the scientific oriented medicine, which it now provides the public is inviolate from any intrusion. The public is -represented as being concerned because the profession. initially designed to protect its health, no longer produces advances in medicine of benefit to the public, but instead its end product is largely of benefit to the pharmaceutical and scientific diagnostic equipment industries. The caricature also represents the public as being concerned for it knows that while it cannot do without the profession, it does not know how to nurture it back to its previous state, providing advances in medicine which

… read more »

Response:

"Indeed the modern physician now only represents an extension of these industries into the public."–Carl Reich The Goose and the Golden Eggs by Carl Reich, M.D. F.R.C.P. The current century will be looked upon as the period in which man made his greatest progress, utilizing science to make advances in every aspect of his existence, from metalurgy to the plastics industry and from the fields of education and communication to health care. In this latter instance, when I first began the study of medicine in 1938, the trend then, already was to interject science into the art of medicine. The leaders in medicine then, who were my teachers, did so willingly with the prediction and with the promise of great advances, especially in the development of scientific diagnostic methods and in the development of new drug therapies. In this latter area of drug therapy, one cannot question that the then infant pharmaceutical industry recognised that it could best advance the main reason for it’s existence, which was increasing investor’s profits and the expansion of the industry by the introduction of new drug therapies. Thus, this industry did with the approval of the profession. by supporting the scientific research of disease, especially that which would lend to the profession’s acceptance of a new drug therapy. Almost of necessity, this inroad of science involved a disregard of clinical medicine, which in essence is a study of the association of physical and functional alterations of the body. All emphasis, instead, was directed towards making a scientific diagnosis and to applying a scientific therapy of a synthesized drug. This influence reached such proportions that for decades very many research projects conducted in Canada’s medical schools were financed entirely or at least in part, by the pharmaceutical industry and reflected an emphasis on scientific methods. A highly specialized group of representatives of the various pharmaceutical industries, especially trained to promote research on new drugs fronted this attack on the profession. These men brought promises of grants in aid of research to the heads of the various departments of medical schools, such as to the professors and the associate professors of internal medicine, paediatrics, obstetrics, surgery et cetera. if these physicans would research a therapy which involved the use of a drug which had been created and patented by the drug company. No less vigorous in the assault on the medical schools were the representatives of companies manufacturing scientific laboratory equipment. designed to provide exact and indisputable scientific diagnosis of disease. The net result of such a scientific assault was that functional improvement, such as the relief of distress or suffering, was disregarded as an inexact index of the efficiency of a therapy, for it could not be measured in linear mass or volumetric fashion. Moreover, since all emphasis was made on scientific patented therapies, and since elements of good nutrition could not be patented, the effect of nutrition on health was steadfastly and purposely avoided. Just as it became the accepted attitude of the public towards science, to adopt scientific things and accomplishments as being vastly superior to all that pre-existed the scientific era, so it became equally acceptable to the leaders of the profession to adopt these offerings of these two massive industries. The amalgamation of these industries, and of medicine, therefore, proceeded to such a degree that over the past five decades, medicine has largely been fashioned to become an instrument to utilize the services of these industries. Indeed the modern physician now only represents an extension of these industries into the public. Modern medicine therefore has been greatly altered by the profession, but only as the profession acted in response to or was guided by the pharmaceutical and diagnostic laboratory equipment industries. Under such care or guidance, medicine has now become fashioned into the proverbial goose that lays golden eggs for these industries! In this instance, the golden eggs are either a new drug therapy or a new scientific laboratory test, which therapy or test were first tested and approved by the medical profession within the industries and within the medical science centres of universities, and then used on the public by the profession at large. There are those who will object to this viewpoint, saying that such an obvious creation could not be produced and would not endure if it were not in keeping with better health care and that if it were otherwise it would soon be found out by the profession or the public, to soon be discarded. Such surveillance of this creation however, is not possible for, as this influence of science grew, so was its control of the special area of scientific medical investigation removing it from the marketplace of medical practice. Such control naturally largely meant the control of government and of private funding of medical research. Such control was neatly and effectively introduced, and ever since firmly maintained, by the introduction by this elite of the dictum, that no medical research project was worth the paper it was written on unless it was proven either by scientific blind study, or preferably, by ultra-scientific double-blind, study. Also such study should be concerned with objective findings which could be measured either by linear volumetric or mass measurement. The net result of the enforcement of these criteria on medical research was that statements of functional improvement which resulted from a particular therapy, such as degrees of relief in the suffering of chronic asthma. were rejected and scientific data was insisted upon. The reasons given for such rejection was that such functional modalities were subject to misinterpretation both by the patient and by the physician and therefore of necessity, were inexact and non-scientific. Such insistance on scientific guidelines has, therefore, firmly placed all medical research into the hands of the scientific elite and therefore under the influence of the pharamaceutical industry. Another influence stabilizing the encroachment of science into the field of medicine has been the method of administration of the self-regulatory medical profession which includes "peer group review without appeal". By this mechanism, physicians who dared deviate from the accepted transition or conversion of the art of medicine. into a science by performing clinical research in their practices on the effect of good nutrition on health and on the effect of therapy of disease with vitamins, frequently saw their constitutional rights of practice removed from them by their peers. Despite the fact that this disaster happened only occasionally within the profession in Canada, its rare occurrence was still very adequate to emphatically remind the rank and file of the profession, that it would only profit them to forsake clinical medicine and instead to pursue the sacred cow of science. "WHO WOULD KILL THE GOOSE" If I were an artist and were to caricaturize this analogy I would depict two individuals looking at a goose labelled. "Medical Profession", in a padlocked cage labelled. "The Medical Establishment". There are three golden eggs in the cage, two labelled. "Drug Therapy". and one. "Scientific Diagnostic Tests". The eggs are held in a container labelled. "Professional Approval". A lock, identical with the lock on the cage also locks this container. The goose is eating from a small trough. It, or the food it contains is labelled, "Grants in aid of scientific research". One of the individual viewing the cage is labelled, "The Pharmaceutical Industry". Smiling and unconcerned he holds a key in one hand. The key is labelled. "M.R.C.". which is an abbreviation for Medical Research Council. In his other hand he holds a container of food. It or the food it contains is labelled, "grants in aid of scientific research". The other individual labelled. "Joe Public", with a worried and concerned look on his face holds an axe in one hand labelled, "Revolutionary Reform", and in the other hand holds a food container labelled, "Non-monetary Based Incentives for Research". This caricature represents a pharmaceutical industry which is unconcerned for it is confident that it has so nurtured and guided the evolution of the profession that the scientific oriented medicine, which it now provides the public is inviolate from any intrusion. The public is -represented as being concerned because the profession. initially designed to protect its health, no longer produces advances in medicine of benefit to the public, but instead its end product is largely of benefit to the pharmaceutical and scientific diagnostic equipment industries. The caricature also represents the public as being concerned for it knows that while it cannot do without the profession, it does not know how to nurture it back to its previous state, providing advances in medicine which are in keeping with national health

Response:

Question:

Thanks for reply, I should say that I have had chronic asthma for many years and my lungs never seem to clear, and feel sore and heavy all the time ..the left one is far worse than the right. I wondered if the quality of my life may improve a bit on the better lung only ?  from Sheila.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Has anyone on the group had removal of a lung or other surgical help to ease their asthma symptoms? I am at the stage where I am thinking of asking my consultant about this, and any help or information from the group would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance,from Sheila.

Response:

I should say that I have had chronic asthma for many years and my lungs never seem to clear, and feel sore and heavy all the time ..the left one is far worse than the right. I wondered if the quality of my life may improve a bit on the better lung only ?  from Sheila.

I am not a medical professional, but it would seem to me that if my lungs werent great, I certainly wouldn’t want to loose one. If something were to happen to make the other one worse, where would you be?

Response:

There is a surgical procedure called LRS which means lung reduction surgery. This is mostly used in case of emphysema. I have never heard of it being used for asthma.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone tried using chromolyn sodium nasal spray or a leukotriene receptor antagonist such as Accolate or Singulair to control inflammatory symptoms from chronic sinusitis?  Any improvement?  These meds are mostly used to control chronic asthma symptoms but may produce a beneficial effect on the sinus mucosa. I would also appreciate an opinion from the contributing MD’s as to their observations and conclusions from results obtained in their practice. Regards, Michael M

Response:

Tried accolate for rhinitis/sinusitis some time ago. Was a last ditch effort. No response whatsoever. — Walter Dum vivimus, vivamus! (Horace) The Happy Iconoclast: www.rationality.net E-mail responses: Delete x in return address —- "Michael Muloin" <mmul…@home.com

wrote in message

news:xdNU4.22740$au2.257526@news1.rdc1.bc.home.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Has anyone tried using chromolyn sodium nasal spray or a leukotriene receptor antagonist such as Accolate or Singulair to control inflammatory symptoms from chronic sinusitis?  Any improvement?  These meds are mostly used to control chronic asthma symptoms but may produce a beneficial

effect

on the sinus mucosa. I would also appreciate an opinion from the contributing MD’s as to their observations and conclusions from results obtained in their practice. Regards, Michael M

Response:

Michael Muloin wrote:

Has anyone tried using chromolyn sodium nasal spray or a leukotriene receptor antagonist such as Accolate or Singulair to control inflammatory symptoms from chronic sinusitis?  Any improvement?  These meds are mostly used to control chronic asthma symptoms but may produce a beneficial effect on the sinus mucosa. I would also appreciate an opinion from the contributing MD’s as to their observations and conclusions from results obtained in their practice. Regards, Michael M

Nasalcrom is helpful with allergies.  Leukotrienes may be helpful, but are still being evaluated. Sincerely, Wellington S. Tichenor, M. D. 642 Park Avenue New York, New York 10021 212 517-6611 wtiche…@sinuses.com Visit our award winning website at: http://www.sinuses.com Sinusitis: A Treatment plan that works for allergy and asthma too Use our internal search engine to find information on the website. Any information must be discussed with your physician and should not be used as medical advice. If you are looking for a physician and can’t get to New York, please go to the FAQ page.  Good Luck.

Response:

Question:

As a post-script to all of this.Both of my paternal grandparents were diabetic, as was my mother. I also have 2 sister-in-laws(my wife’s sisters) who are diabetic, as well as my wife and myself. I had forgotten that one of my wife’s sisters husband was diabetic. He is also now an ex-husband. But he had his foot amputated this week due to the diabetes and his poor self-care. Too bad it wasn’t something else amputated…his wife divorced him after she found out he had molested all of his daughters. (Well that is another story..can you spell dysfunctional family???? Thanks Fencible and Beavis…I better understand the term "chronic" now. Have a good weekend…what’s left of it. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

As a post-script to all of this.Both of my paternal grandparents were diabetic, as was my mother. I also have 2 sister-in-laws(my wife’s sisters) who are diabetic, as well as my wife and myself.

That’s a boat-load for sure.. Too bad it wasn’t something else amputated…his wife divorced him after she found out he had molested all of his daughters. (Well that is another story..can you spell dysfunctional family????

Agree, the worst kind of scum. There’s a lot of that and they never seem to pay enough for the lives they destroy. Thanks Fencible and Beavis…I better understand the term "chronic" now.

Hey, maybe I do also. Happy Mother’s Day! — Dave — Sunday, May 14, 2000 t2 8/98 Glucophage & Aspartame ICQ 10312009

Question:

"Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

news:8anctk$3ur$1@samba.rahul.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> gs <he…@rest.net> wrote: > > "Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

> > news:8amm7m$slv$1@samba.rahul.net… > >> gs <he…@rest.net> wrote: > >> >> Osteoporosis doesn’t cause pain. > >> >> Karen > >> > There are many that feel the disease itself causes the pain, and it is

actually the fractures resulting from having the disease.   gs Can you explain this a bit more. Karen   Umm…explain what? To be blunt, I can’t parse your sentence. Are you saying that the pain that someone feels from osteoporosis is caused directly by the disease of osteoporosis, and that this pain is not caused by fractures compressing nerves? Karen

NO, that isn’t what I meant. I meant to say, that osteoporosis by itself isn’t painful.  It is the fractures which result from having the disease that  causes the pain.  Does this make more sense?  gs

Response:

gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:6001699AC9F44AAD.54D6D8244E88DACC.0665513EA8A21F3D@lp.airnews.net… > "Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

> news:8anctk$3ur$1@samba.rahul.net… > > gs <he…@rest.net> wrote: > NO, that isn’t what I meant. I meant to say, that osteoporosis by itself > isn’t painful.  It is the fractures which result from having the disease > that  causes the pain.  Does this make more sense?  gs

  Yes, this is the case. In fact one of the ways of dealing with osteoporosis is to work on keeping patients from falling, or padding themselves in case they do fall to prevent any fractures.  Often these people are on drugs that destabilize their balance, or have problems with alcohol and this makes them more vulnerable. J

Response:

"Joan Livingston" <joan.livingst…@gte.net

wrote in message

news:YbOz4.319$hC3.63934@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> gs <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

> news:6001699AC9F44AAD.54D6D8244E88DACC.0665513EA8A21F3D@lp.airnews.net… > > "Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

> > news:8anctk$3ur$1@samba.rahul.net… > > > gs <he…@rest.net> wrote: > > NO, that isn’t what I meant. I meant to say, that osteoporosis by itself > > isn’t painful.  It is the fractures which result from having the disease > > that  causes the pain.  Does this make more sense?  gs >   Yes, this is the case. In fact one of the ways of dealing with > osteoporosis is to work on keeping patients from falling, or padding > themselves in case they do fall to prevent any fractures.  Often these > people are on drugs that destabilize their balance, or have problems with > alcohol and this makes them more vulnerable. > J > My Mom’s was so bad, that she didn’t have to fall to get fractures. She

had always been a big milk drinker, and insisted that we kids drink milk.  I really believe it her Mom also had it, but there isn’t any proof.  Her Mom broke her hip at 82, but her doctors never mentioned osteoporosis. My Mom also took calcium supplements.  She had taken these for years because she would get leg cramps, especially at night.  The doctor, 1960’s, told her this was due to a calcium deficiency. gs

Response:

ti…@cheerful.com wrote:

I have "osteoporosis" (just – according to WHO figures) and recently skidded on hidden ice and went down SLAP on my behind with no time to even know what was happening so I made no attempt to save myself. I just lay there, astonished. Those of you who know me know that I am naturally wellpadded in  that area, a fact for which I was grateful – no injury, not even a bruise Increased weight is not all bad.

I am firmly convinced that this is the reason god gave us butts. (-; (And "making no attempt to save yourself" may have worked in your favor, tishy, since a lot of fractures are the *result* of the flailing about people do to try and keep from hurting themselves when they fall. Wrist fractures, in particular, come to mind …) –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org

Response:

On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:26:03 GMT, "Eva D. Struction" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<EvaDSt…@aol.com

wrote: Karen Kay wrote in message <8apnlo$hl…@samba.rahul.net… Eva D. Struction <EvaDSt…@aol.com wrote: Karen Kay wrote in message <8apdhq$gh…@samba.rahul.net… I thought stress (i.e., gravity) fractures were much more common as a source of pain than fall fractures? ————– In my personal experience, when old women with osteoporosis have compression fractures of the lumbar vertebrae, which I guess is what you’re talking about, sometimes they have excruciating pain and sometimes they have very little pain, with a whole range of pain scale in between.  When someone gets a pathological fracture of the hip (i.e. not due to trauma), this is usually someone who is bedridden or otherwise extremely debilitated.  I have never heard of anyone who was ambulatory getting a pathological fracture of the hip or tibia/fibula. My grandmother. On her 95th birthday.:(. I thought this was common–that fractures cause falls. Hip fractures from falls can also range in pain from annoying to excruciating.  It depends on a lot of factors, including the site of the fracture, the severity of the fracture, the type of surgery performed–"pinning" or "hip replacement"–how well the incision heals, whether the person has diabetes, arthritis, etc. …..lots of factors. Well, I’m not arguing the amount of pain, I was arguing sheer numbers. This is probably a ridiculous argument, since some stress fractures are asymptomatic. I retract anything I have had to say on this subject!:) —————– Ah, okay, I thought you *did* mean amount of pain. Incidentally, I qualify my remarks with "in my personal experience" because my experience is with nursing home residents, and I know they do *not* represent the entire population of elderly people.  As for example, your grandmother. Eva

Or the very large numbers of women who manage on their own until they die, without ever breaking anything uinder *any* circumstances. Terri

Response:

In article <r8o1dssebceom137n3du92dch5gi95d…@4ax.com

,

J.Prescott  <joannapresc…@cableinet.co.uk

wrote: On 16 Mar 2000 12:38:05 GMT, c…@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) wrote: Indeed, might Mother Nature not be anticipating need when she equips the older woman with a better cushioned posterior? I suspect she had a sex change before equipping me and just became Old Father Time.  

Only in a.s.m. would you find a woman complaining because her butt’s not big enough. (-; –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org

Response:

On 16 Mar 2000 17:47:26 GMT, kig…@ucs.orst.edu (Pat Kight) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In article <r8o1dssebceom137n3du92dch5gi95d…@4ax.com, J.Prescott  <joannapresc…@cableinet.co.uk wrote: On 16 Mar 2000 12:38:05 GMT, c…@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) wrote: Indeed, might Mother Nature not be anticipating need when she equips the older woman with a better cushioned posterior? I suspect she had a sex change before equipping me and just became Old Father Time.   Only in a.s.m. would you find a woman complaining because her butt’s not big enough. (-; –Pat Kight kig…@peak.org

Nah. Just  come to one of my family reunions. You’ll see lots of buttless wonders. Terri

Response:

In article <8aqkjd$ji…@scotsman.ed.ac.uk

, c…@holyrood.ed.ac.uk

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Pat Kight <kig…@ucs.orst.edu writes: ti…@cheerful.com wrote: I have "osteoporosis" (just – according to WHO figures) and recently skidded on hidden ice and went down SLAP on my behind with no time to even know what was happening so I made no attempt to save myself. I just lay there, astonished. Those of you who know me know that I am naturally wellpadded in  that area, a fact for which I was grateful – no injury, not even a bruise Increased weight is not all bad. I am firmly convinced that this is the reason god gave us butts. (And "making no attempt to save yourself" may have worked in your favor, tishy, since a lot of fractures are the *result* of the flailing about people do to try and keep from hurting themselves when they fall. Wrist fractures, in particular, come to mind …) This is the basis of the falling advice I gave some time ago. Most old folk are scared of falling and try to save themsleves from falling for too long, which causes lots of fractures. The right approach is, as soon as you suspect you might be going to fall, bend at the knees and subside/fall down onto your bum.

And when taking care of parents, to make sure that you know the best way to assist them through difficult daily tasks like getting out of bed or moving around a slippery bathroom. I’m sure Eva knows all about this stuff. I’m still remembering not to lift my mom by the arms, how to get her situated on a shower chair, how to adhere rugs so they don’t slip, etc. There are good hints in a series done by CaregiverZone on their web site if anyone’s dealing with caregiving duty. I’m finding out that the ways to avoid falling are as various as the ways that a fall can hurt, at least for people my mom’s age. …. I’m Freddy by the way. I’ve been reading this list for a while, off and on, and just decided to slip into this conversation because this has been such an issue for us over the last year.

Response:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:57:43 GMT, resa3…@my-deja.com wrote:

Resa again:  I just thought that if every US citizen who could afford it paid a premium of $36 a month, it might provide adequqte medical insurance coverage for everyone and no tax dollars from other sources would be needed.

This is a joke, right? If every American paid $36 a month the total annual income would be (assuming a population of 300 million) $128,600,000,000. Do you really think that would pay for the healthcare of 300 million Americans? Good God, the preventative crap you keep arguing for costs more than the annual $432 USD each person would pay. Not much left over for $50,000 bypasses and half a million dollar transplants is there? Not much left for the prescription drugs for chronic illnesses either. Who do you suppose would underwrite this under these circumstances? Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

 Again the Canadian system is a kind one.  I understand that there is some problem with mounting costs. Because there are no cost controls in the US this might affect the introduction of newer technologies or medications in Canada and be making Canadian health care costs rise. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:31:23 GMT, resa3…@my-deja.com wrote:

In article <38fd61e4.93003…@news.erols.com, vl-hb…@erols.com (Terri) wrote: On 10 Mar 2000 20:39:55 GMT, resa3…@aol.com (Resa3558) wrote: Terri wrote re the "Worried Well" using her/her husband’s hard earned medical insurance see http://newslibrary.krmediastream.com/cgi-bin/search/wp. Article was published in the Washington Post Health Section on Oct 22,1999. The article begins with: "What’s most noticeable about the steady stream of patients into Charles F. Hoesch’s medical office in the Baltimore suburb of Perry Hall is how few are actually sick." Resa: Perhaps he should be on a trauma care team. Is this what you consider good information– a disgruntled doctor who has no people skills? I couldn’t access the site by the way.

Bullshit. You’re too cheap to pay the $2.50 it costs to get an archived story. You should have read it when it was available for free. But I note that without reading the article you have characterized it as the work of "a disgruntled doctor who has no people skills." Why is that? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Terri continuing: Sample paragraphs: "When the majority of the population is ’sick’ under some definition, it raisses the fundamental question: What is health? What is being well?" said Lisa M. Schwartz, a physician at Dartmouth Medical School and the White River Junction (Vt.) Veterans Hospital. "It makes you wonder whether we’ve lost the concept of health." "I think there will eventually be a backlash against the notion that we are all at risk for some kind of disease," said Robert Aronowitz, a physician and medical historian at the University of Pennsylvania. "I think people will come to realize there can be real harm in the diagnostic test that leads to the unnecessary surgery. They will see the ‘walking wounded’ where previously they saw the ‘worried well’ — or perhaps the ‘not worried at all.’ "

Interesting that you chose not to comment on this.

Several studies have found that both mental stress and workplace absenteeism tend to rise after people are told they have high blood pressure. From Resa: The number of premature deaths prevented by early treatment of hypertension is not being debated. Of course you think that treatment doesn’t stop the progression of the disease.

resa, you really need a course in remedial reading.

Is it your theory that everyone should overdose on over the counter painkillers resulting in a 5 day ICU $30,000 bill? No prevention necessary only only wait till a catastophic event?

Not overdose, dear. Take the amount recommended, rather than prescription painkillers to which I have idiosyncratic reactions in many cases. GI bleeds can and have occurred with one dose of aspirin. Your ignorance is showing again, dear.

By the way I wonder if someone who deals with health care in this way would be eligible for catastrophic coverage. IMO you are no cherry–chary yes.

Given that my insurance company has managed to keep 75% of the money I’ve paid them over the past 20 years, I suspect they’re quite happy with their bargain.

Terri:

Not Terri – the article in the Post continues: >One-quarter of women screened and found to >have osteoporosis chose to limit daily activities such as grocery >shopping, a decision that"paradoxically . . . might accelerate bone loss >and even increase the risk for fracture," wrote the authors of another >study. >Resa: Oh, what about the 3/4? Perhaps they try to increase their efforts >to prevent further deterioration? But any disease process that causes >pain might generally limit activities.

Terri:

And my favorite one: again the article in the Post not Terri continues: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"When Medicare was created 34 years ago, nobody imagined a healthy 65-year-old woman might take $225 worth of drugs per month — say, for hypertension, high cholesterol, osteoporosis and menopause — and then live to 83 (the actuarial prediction for women who reach 65). Now, such a scenario is being played out by millions of people." (End of quoted piece) Strange though it may seem to you, elderly does not translate into sick. Resa: Have you been reading anything about the number of arthritic diseases and autoimmune diseases that affect women? The elderly go to physicians because they have pain, discomfort, loss of quality of life.

Resa, the elderly people I know don’t spend their lives in doctor’s offices. They carry on their daily activities and live out their lives quite happily without benefit of endless doctor visits and medicines.

Too bad you begrudge them your husband’s insurance moneys. The terrible results of stroke which cause more long term disability than any other neurological disease have been mitigated by effective treatment of hypertension.

Hypertension is easy to diagnose and  monitor and cheap to treat. Why the hell do you keep harping on it. There are millions and millions of people with hypertension living normal lives. Of course they remember that they have hypertension and don’t take drugs that are contraindicated in people with hypertension, controlled or not. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

It seems very strange to me that someone who is basically so anti-medicine, judgemental and unsympathetic became a nurse. Resa Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

I tried it, too.  The link provided said "Gateway Error" and didn’t work, so I went to the Washington Post website per your suggestion.  A search for ‘worried well’ doesn’t work if you search in "Health", but it works if you search "A" Section (where the article actually appeared) or All Sections. Marilee * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:55:52 -0800, Marilee <coldbrrrNOcoS…@netscape.net.invalid

wrote: I tried it, too.  The link provided said "Gateway Error" and didn’t work, so I went to the Washington Post website per your suggestion.  A search for ‘worried well’ doesn’t work if you search in "Health", but it works if you search "A" Section (where the article actually appeared) or All Sections. Marilee

Oops. When I went looking last Friday I think I did the same thing. I somehow remembered it as being in the Health section and when I couldn’t get it, I clicked on all sections and it appeared. And then I noticed that the date was a Friday so it couldn’t have been in the Health section which comes out on Tues. My apologies. Terri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

"Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

news:8alo9u$lls$1@samba.rahul.net…

resa3…@my-deja.com wrote: Terri: One-quarter of women screened and found to have osteoporosis chose to limit daily activities such as grocery shopping, a decision that"paradoxically . . . might accelerate bone loss and even increase the risk for fracture," wrote the authors of another study. Resa: Oh, what about the 3/4? Perhaps they try to increase their efforts to prevent further deterioration? But any disease process that causes pain might generally limit activities. Osteoporosis doesn’t cause pain. Karen

There are many that feel the disease itself causes the pain, and it is actually the fractures resulting from having the disease.   gs

Response:

"Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

news:8amm7m$slv$1@samba.rahul.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

gs <he…@rest.net wrote: Osteoporosis doesn’t cause pain. Karen There are many that feel the disease itself causes the pain, and it is actually the fractures resulting from having the disease.   gs Can you explain this a bit more. Karen   Umm…explain what?

Response:

"gs" <he…@rest.net

wrote in message

news:9089247597D5631B.BB5DAA4A57BB1603.6B04216015ECD27B@lp.airnews.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Karen Kay" <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote in message

> news:8amm7m$slv$1@samba.rahul.net… > > gs <he…@rest.net> wrote: > > >> Osteoporosis doesn’t cause pain. > > >> Karen > > > There are many that feel the disease itself causes the pain, and it is > > > actually the fractures resulting from having the disease.   gs > > Can you explain this a bit more. > > Karen > >   Umm…explain what?

I don’t know exactly what is wrong, but I’m having a really terrible time today! More of a problem than I normally do, with posting, writing, finding posts. I’m not trying to be flippant or rude. It is a day of too much pain, new diagnosis, too many decisions to be made, and my brain is way into overload.   gs

Response:

On 14 Mar 2000 17:09:06 GMT, Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com

wrote:

>> On 14 Mar 2000 16:14:00 GMT, Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote:

>>>Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com

wrote:

>>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:31:23 GMT, resa3…@my-deja.com wrote: >>>>>In article <38fd61e4.93003…@news.erols.com>, >>>>>vl-hb…@erols.com (Terri) wrote: >>>>>> On 10 Mar 2000 20:39:55 GMT, resa3…@aol.com (Resa3558) wrote: >>>>>Terri wrote re the "Worried Well" using her/her husband’s hard earned >>>>>medical insurance >>>>>> see >>>>>> http://newslibrary.krmediastream.com/cgi-bin/search/wp. >>>… >>>>>Resa: Perhaps he should be on a trauma care team. Is this what you >>>>>consider good information– a disgruntled doctor who has no people >>>>>skills? I couldn’t access the site by the way. >>>> Bullshit. You’re too cheap to pay the $2.50 it costs to get an >>>> archived story. >>>FTR, I couldn’t get to it either. I think this is an unfair >>>accusation. >>>Karen >> Then go the Washington Post web site. Click on archives. Go to Health >> Search the Oct 22/1999 edition using "worried well" or any other >> distinctive phrase in the quoted paragraphs as your search term. >I did that. The web site hung. I tried three times and gave up. >Karen

Works for me. All I can say is try again later. Terri

Response:

On 14 Mar 2000 16:14:00 GMT, Karen Kay <ka…@wordwrite.com

wrote:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Terri <vl-hb…@erols.com

wrote:

>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:31:23 GMT, resa3…@my-deja.com wrote: >>>In article <38fd61e4.93003…@news.erols.com>, >>>vl-hb…@erols.com (Terri) wrote: >>>> On 10 Mar 2000 20:39:55 GMT, resa3…@aol.com (Resa3558) wrote: >>>Terri wrote re the "Worried Well" using her/her husband’s hard earned >>>medical insurance >>>> see >>>> http://newslibrary.krmediastream.com/cgi-bin/search/wp. >… >>>Resa: Perhaps he should be on a trauma care team. Is this what you >>>consider good information– a disgruntled doctor who has no people >>>skills? I couldn’t access the site by the way. >> Bullshit. You’re too cheap to pay the $2.50 it costs to get an >> archived story. >FTR, I couldn’t get to it either. I think this is an unfair >accusation. >Karen

Then go the Washington Post web site. Click on archives. Go to Health Search the Oct 22/1999 edition using "worried well" or any other distinctive phrase in the quoted paragraphs as your search term. The opening paragraph will come up and if you want to read the rest you have to pay a fee of $2.50. I provided the date, the section, and the opening paragraph in my post on Friday. If the link didn’t work, there was plenty of information to get it for yourself. As for unfair accusations…. Terri

Response:

Terri wrote in message <38fd61e4.93003…@news.erols.com

… On 10 Mar 2000 20:39:55 GMT, resa3…@aol.com (Resa3558) wrote: 3) Terri: Healthy people don’t need medical care. Why should they pay for access to care they neither need nor want.

Why don’t healthy people need insurance?  gs

Response:

On 10 Mar 2000 20:39:55 GMT, resa3…@aol.com (Resa3558) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kathryn wrote: To set the record straight. We pay premiums too. ( No premiums for those with low incomes ) . Each province has a different system. I just want to point this out that we don’t think of this as "free system" I know the premiums are laughably low compared to those in the US, about $36.00 a month for a single person, but if that is what you are used to paying it still seems like you are contributing directly to the health insurance system. Oh drugs are separate. Kathryn Resa:  Thanks for setting the record straight.  I like the Canadian Health Care System and hope that we will one day get something similar in the US.  Are any tax dollars applied to paying for the Canadian Health Care costs?  Also do the elderly have a hard time buying needed prescription drugs?  In the US it is a terrible problem.  This is why I get quite upset when someone proposes