Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No Archive: Yes Wow!  You’re providing all that documentation so I won’t use chiropractors? While you’re at it, look up the documentation on all the people who die or are injured from prescribed medications. If I accept your logic, then I should never visit a medical doctor who might prescribe medicine to me. Mike o

LOL!! And I just came from the chiropractor.  Amazing……everything is in the proper order. Jan

Response:

Chiro75 defensively sputtered: Quadriplegia is a possibility, and so is sudden respiratory arrest and death. Really?  How often, and what is your source, pray tell? 1.  In terms of frequency, I think once is enough for this recreational outpatient service:

Chiropractic care is not "recreational outpatient service".  It is this approach that makes your arguments less than savory. Source Class: Journal– I.    Haldeman S, et al., "Compression fractures in patients undergoing spinal manipulative therapy."  Journal of Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1992 September 15(7):450-4.

I will have to look at this paper, too.  Just because it says "spinal manipulative therapy" does not necessarily mean it was delivered by a doctor of chiropractic.  Spinal manipulative therapy can be rendered by anyone.  What is important is to determine who rendered the care in this case, as well as what other prodcedures were done.  Did the caregiver in question neglect to follow a standard protocol that otherwise would have shown a countraindication to the manipulation in this case?  It makes a big difference what procedures were followed in this case.  I’ll comment after some further investigation…also, you’re still talking about odds that are so ridiculously low that the term "risk" can barely be applied. <other studies snipped Again, the mention of studies is not enough to prove your point.  We’d have to look at the study itself to see what methods were used and if the conclusions are in line with the data.  I will reiterate the fact, however, that when proper protocols are used in the chiropractic office, there is very little risk of any negative effects.  This is absolutely an undisputable fact. <a bunch of other stuff snipped that has little, if anything, to do with chiropractic treatment protocols… I would like to find out what your qualifications are to be able to make such a gross blanket

statement. 3.  I have made a straightforward proposition consistent with common clinical medical knowledge — the type employed in medical hospitals, where chiropractic "doctors" are barred from practising:

Again, you are totally incorrect.  Many, many D.C.’s in this country have hospital priveleges.  Where did you get your information that states otherwise? Leave the upper cervical spine alone unless there is a life-threatening consequence of omission.

In terms of medical treatment, this is absolutely correct.  Medical protocol is different from chiropractic protocol, however, and this statement is made in terms of one rather than the other.  MD’s do not know how to properly diagnose and adjust subluxations of the upper cervical spine, so this staement makes sense in terms of surgery.  MD’s do not want to be doing unwarranted surgeries, hence the statement.  It does not apply to chiropractic adjustment protocols and DC’s have been adjusting the upper cervical spine for over a century with little unwanted effect. There are very few contraindications to having an upper cervical adjustment. 4.  No, there are many contraindications to having an upper cervical "adjustment".  Evident categories that come to mind would include presence of arterial malformations,

Very rare… osteoporosis,

A caution, not a contraindication…. decreased paracervical motor response rate,

Ditto…. presence of preexisting cervical spine fracture or malformation,

Ditto…  YOu are right, you shouldn’t let just any ol’ person do it.  That’s why we have chiropractors. 5.  Yes, I am right.  But no, the reason we have chiropractors is to make sure people teaching chiropractic in schools have a steady income flow.  Here’s a funny exam question:

That’s plain ignorance on your part, as you have shown repeatedly in this newsgroup.  How do you explain satisfied patients.  Some sort of mind-bending technique taught at the chiropractic institutions? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those upper segments are not able to tolerate much compressional shear forces applied from external agencies, especially if one does not have a particularly muscular neck. The muscularity of your neck is irregardless in this case. 6.  I disagree with you.  If you have performed any autopsies, you may find that people with increased cervical and paracervical musculature tend to have hypertrophy of associated axial and appendicular bony structures including cervical spinal structures.  Such hypertrophy can contribute to increased resistance of the bone to deforming influences of tensile or compressive force.  Also, the ability of the organism to PROTECT itself from injurious movements imposed by external agencies — especially those which may be incompetent — is vital to the survival of the organism, thus the importance of the strength and speed of musculature, beyond its role in causing bone to react

hypertrophically. Again, this has little to do with properly performed chiropractic adjustments.  This is a valid statement (or at least part of it is), but if it were applicable to what I do, you would see a lot more unexpected reactions and this is not the case.  You make these statements in the face of glaring data from tons of sources that disputes your reasoning.  Like the statement you made earlier, it is not specific in terms of what is done during a chiropractic adjustment.  What an ignorant statement! 7.  Awareness of ignorance is dependent upon how much one thinks one knows.  Or perhaps you feel a bit nervous and self-conscious at this time?

Nope.  Thanks, though!  I appreciate the fact that you care.  Also, I don’t know of any adjustments that use "compressional shear forces", as you state it. 8.  So — do you know what a shear force is?

Yep. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Also, since you made the statement, please post in your reply what the average resistance to "compressional shear forces" the upper cervical spine segments have as well as the average "compressional shear force" produced by the various chiropractic technqiues of adjusting the upper cervical spine. 10.  I would be happy to.  First I need to find out if I need to speak in lay terms or if can speak in technical terms.  Please indicate to me what you know about compressional shear forces consequent to torsion of serially-linked tensile arrays as they may relate to general rigid body mechanics and material failure of trabecular architecture.  I think I would be holding my breath for a very long time if I waited for this data to appear

Go for both.  A variety of people with varying degrees of understanding will no doubt be reading this information you intend to spew forth.  One must ask why, if it is so clear to "prove" with your numbers, every adjustment to the cervical spine, or elsewhere for that matter, doesn’t result in an accident.  Or why even one in a million doesn’t!  Go figure.  At least you’ll show data that "proves" how horribly disfiguring chiropractic care is!  Trouble is, no one else seems to have data that would support your views, so it looks like you’re sort of taking this battle on your own.  Valiant effort, though! Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

X-No Archive: Yes Wow!  You’re providing all that documentation so I won’t use chiropractors? While you’re at it, look up the documentation on all the people who die or are injured from prescribed medications. If I accept your logic, then I should never visit a medical doctor who might prescribe medicine to me. Mike o

Response:

Why is it that Chiropractors are always occupied with justifying the shortcomings of their primary methods?

I am more interested in why you made a statement out of ignorance and tried to pass it off as fact.  Apologies accepted. Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

You mention ‘muscle hypertonicity’ in the statement below.  I have been diagnosed with that in both my legs possibly due to a spinal infection (T1-T4) I had 5 years ago.  There was no damage to the spine or back but I did have nerve damage back then.   I had an MRI of the lumbar area and an EMG of the lower back, legs and feet and all is ok with the nerves.  Spinal stenosis and arthritis has been ruled out, in other words there is nothing wrong with my lower back.  My Neurologist told me that my lower back ache stems from the spasticity in my legs.  I asked him about seeing a Chiropractor and he said NO, told me to continue my stretching exercises and has me on Zanaflex, a muscle relaxant.  My question to you is, can a Chiropractor do anything for muscle spasicity in the legs?

Sure, if that problem is related to vetebral subluxation complex affecting the nervs to the muscles in question.  If the cause of the problem is not subluxation in the area, then no.  Right now your doctor is offering palliative care, but to the patient that gets old pretty quick.  Since you’ve gone the medical route without satisfactory results, I would suggest you talk to people you know and trust and see which of them are using chiropractic care.  Get a few recommendations, take the time to meet the doctor, and get information up front about what that doctor wished to do to help you get out of discomfort and on the road to good health.  After the examination and possible x-rays, the DC you consult should be able to tell without question whether subluxation may be a part of this problem.   I want to thank you for any information you can supply me and I am a firm believer in Chiropractors, they have helped me in the past and would not hesitate going to see one if I knew he could be of some help in my condition.

KNOWING he will be able to help is tricky.  A lot of the results in chiropractic care depend on the technique being used, proper diagnosis of area of subluxation, and compliance on the part of the patient. Also, the body’s respone to the adjustment, which is different for everyone, has a lot to do with the results.  All I can say is find a good D.C. and see if what he has to say to you makes sense. Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

Chiropractic works on several levels.  

Yes, and one significant level being insurance fraud.   "Injured in an accident?  Get the money you deserve." —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Why is it that Chiropractors are always occupied with justifying the shortcomings of their primary methods? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Chiro75, You mention ‘muscle hypertonicity’ in the statement below.  I have been diagnosed with that in both my legs possibly due to a spinal infection (T1-T4) I had 5 years ago.  There was no damage to the spine or back but I did have nerve damage back then.   I had an MRI of the lumbar area and an EMG of the lower back, legs and feet and all is ok with the nerves.  Spinal stenosis and arthritis has been ruled out, in other words there is nothing wrong with my lower back.  My Neurologist told me that my lower back ache stems from the spasticity in my legs.  I asked him about seeing a Chiropractor and he said NO, told me to continue my stretching exercises and has me on Zanaflex, a muscle relaxant.  My question to you is, can a Chiropractor do anything for muscle spasicity in the legs? I want to thank you for any information you can supply me and I am a firm believer in Chiropractors, they have helped me in the past and would not hesitate going to see one if I knew he could be of some help in my condition. Gene in New Jersey…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -form of misalignment in almost every person?  Now add the possibility of congenital malformations, degenerative processes in the bone and discs, muscle hypertonicity, poor ergonomics, old mattresses, crappy chairs, bad shoes, and stresses from another host of sources.  

Response:

Quadriplegia is a possibility, and so is sudden respiratory arrest and death.

Really?  How often, and what is your source, pray tell? One should really avoid having anyone, even of significant skill, messing around with the upper cervical spine.

I guess that would include orthopedic surgeons who want to wire the area in cases of hypermobility, eh?  I would like to find out what your qualifications are to be able to make such a gross blanket statement. There are very few contraindications to having an upper cervical adjustment.  YOu are right, you shouldn’t let just any ol’ person do it.  That’s why we have chiropractors. Those upper segments are not able to tolerate much compressional shear forces applied from external agencies, especially if one does not have a particularly muscular neck.

The muscularity of your neck is irregardless in this case.  What an ignorant statement!  Also, I don’t know of any adjustments that use "compressional shear forces", as you state it.  LEt me know if you know more about the subject than I do!  Also, since you made the statement, please post in your reply what the average resistance to "compressional shear forces" the upper cervical spine segments have as well as the average "compressional shear force" produced by the various chiropractic technqiues of adjusting the upper cervical spine.  I think I would be holding my breath for a very long time if I waited for this data to appear, but I am VERY interested, so I await your reply with much anticipation. Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

Chiro75 defensively sputtered: Quadriplegia is a possibility, and so is sudden respiratory arrest and death. Really?  How often, and what is your source, pray tell?

1.  In terms of frequency, I think once is enough for this recreational outpatient service: Source Class: Journal– I.    Haldeman S, et al., "Compression fractures in patients undergoing spinal manipulative therapy."  Journal of Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1992 September 15(7):450-4. II.   Rinsky LA, et al., "A cervical spinal cord injury following chiropractic manipulation",  Paraplegia. 1976 Feb;13(4):223-7. III.  Livingston MC., "Spinal manipulation causing injury. A three-year study", Clin Orthop. 1971 Nov-Dec;81:82-6. IV.   Lipper MH, et al., "Brown-Sequard syndrome of the cervical spinal cord after chiropractic manipulation", AJNR Am J Neuroradiol. 1998 Aug;19(7):1349-52. Some other effects of adjustments/manipulations: V.    Sinel M, et al., "Thalamic infarction secondary to cervical manipulation", Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 1993 May;74(5):543-6. VI.   Fritz VU, et al., "Neck manipulation causing stroke. Case reports", S Afr Med J. 1984 Dec 1;66(22):844-6. VII.   Raskind R, et al., "Vertebral artery injuries following chiropractic cervical spine manipulation–case reports." Angiology. 1990 Jun;41(6):445-52. I also have more sources of this type if you would like them. Source Class:: Text– Kandel & Schwartz, "Principles of Neural Science": — Clinical Syndromes of the Spinal Cord / Chapter 35 — "Lesions of the spinal cord give rise to motor or sensory symptoms that are often related to a particular sensory or motor segmental level of the spinal cord.  Identification of the appropriate level of the motor or sensory loss…is crucial for recognizing focal lesions within the spinal cord or external compressive lesions that interrupt functions below the lesion. Motor Level When motor roots are involved, or when motor neurons are affected focally, clinical findings may indicate the spinal level of the injury. This clinical evidence would include the typical lower motor neuron signs: weakness, wasting, fasciculation, and loss of tendon reflexes. The muscles and tendon reflexes that serve as landmarks for locating motor level lesions are listed in Table 36-1.  However, because it is clinically difficult to relate the innervation of muscles of the trunk and thorax to specific spinal segments, the motor level may not be evident.  For instance, a lesion anywhere above the first lumbar segment may cause signs of upper motor neuron disease in the legs.  Under these circumstances sensory abnormalities are more valuable for localizing the lesion. — Lesions of the Spinal Cord Often Give Rise to Characteristic Syndromes Spinal cord injuries are most often caused by trauma, especially automobile accidents.  The resulting syndrome depends on the extent of direct injury of the cord or compression of the cord by displaced vertebrae or blood clots.  In extreme cases trauma may lead to complete or partial transection of the spinal cord. Complete transection The spinal cord may be completely severed acutely in fracture-dislocations of vertebrae or by knife or bullet wounds.  Acute transection of the cord may also result from an inflammatory condition called transverse myelitis or from compression due to a tumor, especially metastatic tumors. … Immediately after traumatic section of the cord…there is loss of all sensation and all voluntary movement below the lesion.  Bladder and bowel control are also lost.  If the lesion is above C3, breathing may be affected." One should really avoid having anyone, even of significant skill, messing around with the upper cervical spine. I guess that would include orthopedic surgeons who want to wire the area in cases of hypermobility, eh?

2.  Yes, that would include surgeons.  The difference is the work neurosurgeons perform is in reaction to a life threatening event, not transient soft tissue strain.  And the surgeons have a valid technique. And skill. I would like to find out what your qualifications are to be able to make such a gross blanket statement.

3.  I have made a straightforward proposition consistent with common clinical medical knowledge — the type employed in medical hospitals, where chiropractic "doctors" are barred from practising:  Leave the upper cervical spine alone unless there is a life-threatening consequence of omission.  If there is any of the above that you need further explanation of, let me know.  As for my qualifications, I flip burgers during third shift at the truck stop on Westbound Interstate 9. The phone number there is 1-800-EATMEAT.  You? There are very few contraindications to having an upper cervical adjustment.

4.  No, there are many contraindications to having an upper cervical "adjustment".  Evident categories that come to mind would include presence of arterial malformations, osteoporosis, decreased paracervical motor response rate, presence of preexisting cervical spine fracture or malformation, and poor skill or lack of clinical validity on the part of the pracitioner and the method being practised, respectively. For example: http://www.canoe.ca/Health9911/02_neck.html  YOu are right, you shouldn’t let just any ol’ person do it.  That’s why we have chiropractors.

5.  Yes, I am right.  But no, the reason we have chiropractors is to make sure people teaching chiropractic in schools have a steady income flow.  Here’s a funny exam question: How many Doctors of Chiropractic does it take to change a light bulb?         a. None.         b. One.         c. Two.         d. Three or more.         (Answer below) Those upper segments are not able to tolerate much compressional shear forces applied from external agencies, especially if one does not have a particularly muscular neck. The muscularity of your neck is irregardless in this case.

6.  I disagree with you.  If you have performed any autopsies, you may find that people with increased cervical and paracervical musculature tend to have hypertrophy of associated axial and appendicular bony structures including cervical spinal structures.  Such hypertrophy can contribute to increased resistance of the bone to deforming influences of tensile or compressive force.  Also, the ability of the organism to PROTECT itself from injurious movements imposed by external agencies — especially those which may be incompetent — is vital to the survival of the organism, thus the importance of the strength and speed of musculature, beyond its role in causing bone to react hypertrophically.  What an ignorant statement!

7.  Awareness of ignorance is dependent upon how much one thinks one knows.  Or perhaps you feel a bit nervous and self-conscious at this time?  Also, I don’t know of any adjustments that use "compressional shear forces", as you state it.

8.  So — do you know what a shear force is?  LEt me know if you know more about the subject than I do!

9.  Since you asked — Yes, I do know more.  Also, since you made the statement, please post in your reply what the average resistance to "compressional shear forces" the upper cervical spine segments have as well as the average "compressional shear force" produced by the various chiropractic technqiues of adjusting the upper cervical spine.

10.  I would be happy to.  First I need to find out if I need to speak in lay terms or if can speak in technical terms.  Please indicate to me what you know about compressional shear forces consequent to torsion of serially-linked tensile arrays as they may relate to general rigid body mechanics and material failure of trabecular architecture.  I think I would be holding my breath for a very long time if I waited for this data to appear

11.  Now, now — such behavior performed habitually may lead to anoxic encephalopathy.  Here’s some sucker candy so you won’t hold your breath, little boy. but I am VERY interested, so I await your reply with much anticipation.

12.  I have replied in detail and in concrete terms.  Now kindly put up. (Answer: b.  Just one.  But he has to do it in 22 visits if the bulb is insured and retains an attorney.) —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

 Hi, I have used a chiropractor in the past with good results. I can no longer go due to my diagnoisis of atlanto occipital joint arthrotopathy. My neurosurgeon says any over manipulation of my neck will paralyze me.

Then don’t get it OVER manipulated.  Get a specific chiropractic adjustment by a competant doctor!  There are very, very few contraindications to adjustment. He and I were just talking about this last week. He said for in order for it to be effective you must keep going.

Not necessarily.  To really reap the benefits of it, I would say that this is true.  TO really reap the benefits of dentistry, however, one visit to the dentist isn’t going to cut it, either, though. Chiropractic works on several levels.  No one said that you can’t utilize it for condition based care then quit the care regimen after you feel like you want to. I think that once your chiropractor gets you aligned you will then be asked to come back once every week or two.

No.  ANd if he does, there is reason for it.  Most people who come into a DC’s office are suffering from the result of a condition that has been at work for a LONG time in their bodies.  It may not have ever caused pain before, but when you put up an x-ray film and show someone gross degenrative processes in their area of complaint, you are looking at years and years of problems that have lead up to the current manifestation of symptoms.  YOu cannot correct a problem that has been at work for that long in one visit.  That is why care when you feel fine is sometimes necessitated.  WOuld you rather wait until you have a cavity to visit your dentist, or take the preventative measures he recommends to avoid that in the first place? This can be very expensive if your insurance doesn’t pay .

A good DC will usually be able to get you oput of pain quickly, and make it so that you have increasingly lengthened times between needing to be adjusted.  YOu have to get out of the initial intensive care phase and into a rehabilitative condition before that occurs, though. He also stated that chiropractors are sued every year for neck injuries resulting from their manipulation.

Under 10% of DC’s in this country are engaged in a lawsuit at any given time, and of this small percentage, very few of those cases have to do with any injury to a patient.  Fewer than 1 in 1,000,000,000 is affected by a serious injury from cervical adjustment every year.  YOur chances of being struck by lightning are FAR higher!  Start buying lottery tickets, too!  Did you happen to ask your Medical Doctor how many MD’s are sued every year for injuring or killing their patients? As with any medical professional I would check their medical back ground with the appropriate state agencies and try to find out if they have ever been sued for malpractice.

That is always a good idea… Also find out how long they have been in practice or if they are "new’ to town.

Actually, the rates for malpractice suits have a dual peak.  How long the doctor has been practicing is misleading in this area. They could have lost their liscense to practice in another state. Talk with other patients in the waiting room.

A busy waiting room is the best sign of a good doctor.  Also if you see lots of kids and babies getting adjusted, then you know you’re in good hands. Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

My wife and I just visited Dr. David Shwartz in Dumont, NJ for a chiropractic evaluation and treatment (we’ve had one session so far). My father says we should seriously reconsider and that there is danger from the treatment and he has heard "horror stories" about people being paralyzed or taken advantage of by being told they had to come in all the time for treatment.

Horror stories abound in any profession, regardless of what is being done.  That’s par for the course.  Frequently it is the result of purposeful malicious intent and other times it is poain stupidity and ignorance.  There is a risk to use chiropractic care, as there is with any type of health care.  Those risks are INCREDIBLY low and you should speak to your chiropractic doctor about what they are and what precautions he takes to avoid them.  The interesting thing about risks is that there are numerous ways to avoid them. Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

Remember, that is considered "alternative" medicine and chiropractors are not medical doctors by any means.

Actually, chiropractic is NOT an alternative to medical care.  It is a completely independent practice that is not meant to replace medical treatment. You state that your wife has some misalignment in her lower back and neck and you have some in your neck. Who made that diagnosis? I will bet anything that the chiropractor did.

Gee, that’s a pretty safe bet, wouldn’t you think?  One of the components of subluxation is misalignment.  Who else would you expect to make a diagnosis of a misaligned spinal segment? Isn’t it strange that every patient that walks into a chiropractors office has a misalignment of some sort.

No.  The spinal column is made up of 24 individually movable segments. Add to that both inominates and the sacrum, as well as the occiput, and you have 28 segments.  Now add the 12 ribs.  Also take a look at an anatomy text to see what muscles attach where, and think about what happens to the ends of a rope when the tension on it changes.  Stuff moves, right?  Now, clear your mind and think about the joints between each vertebrae.  Normal vertebrae have 6-8 joints associated between it and the one above and below it.  Add three more per side for the twelve thoracic vertebrae and their ribs (there are three joints between each rib and its associated vertebrae, and you have 24 total ribs for a total of at least 72 additional joints).  Now, do you honestly think that in a system where I’ve just outlined the most basic and elementary anatomy (it’s way more complex than that) that there wouldn’t be some form of misalignment in almost every person?  Now add the possibility of congenital malformations, degenerative processes in the bone and discs, muscle hypertonicity, poor ergonomics, old mattresses, crappy chairs, bad shoes, and stresses from another host of sources.  THe spine is fully movable in every plane.  That means you sacrifice a bit of strength as a result, and when we subject our bodies to constant stressors, there is plenty of room for misalignment.  The thing that separates a good chiropractor from a great one, however, is the ability to differentiate between subluxation and compensation.  Not every misalignment needs to be or should be adjusted. I bet my wife and I would also have some spinal misalignment if we visited a chiropractor.

And by what reasoning would you think that you wouldn’t? Do you remember that old saying- "there is a sucker born every minute." If you are willing to pay for those "treatments" the chiropractor will gladly take all that he can. Good luck and beware.

Food for thought:  millions of chronic asthma sufferers pay lots of money for their inhalers every year.  What a bunch of sukers, right? Chiro75 Before you buy.

Response:

 How right you are, that is something else that my Dr. and I also have – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quadriplegia is a possibility, and so is sudden respiratory arrest and death. One should really avoid having anyone, even of significant skill, messing around with the upper cervical spine.  Those upper segments are not able to tolerate much compressional shear forces applied from external agencies, especially if one does not have a particularly muscular neck.  Hi, I have used a chiropractor in the past with good results. I can no longer go due to my diagnoisis of atlanto occipital joint arthrotopathy. My neurosurgeon says any over manipulation of my neck will paralyze me. He and I were just talking about this last week. He said for in order for it to be effective you must keep going. I think that once your chiropractor gets you aligned you will then be asked to come back once every week or two. This can be very expensive if your insurance doesn’t pay . He also stated that chiropractors are sued every year for neck injuries resulting from their manipulation. As with any medical professional I would check their medical back ground with the appropriate state agencies and try to find out if they have ever been sued for malpractice. Also find out how long they have been in practice or if they are "new’ to town. They could have lost their liscense to practice in another state. Talk with other patients in the waiting room.  I loved their cold packs and the traction bed. Enjoy the pampering. Mechelle In My wife and I just visited Dr. David Shwartz in Dumont, NJ for a chiropractic evaluation and treatment (we’ve had one session so far). My father says we should seriously reconsider and that there is danger from the treatment and he has heard "horror stories" about people being paralyzed or taken advantage of by being told they had to come in all the time for treatment. My wife has some misalignment in her lower back and neck while I have some in my neck while the bones there have some signs of degeneration and bone spurs. None of this is in a severe stage but there is some aches and pain. We are dieting and exercising so this should alleviate things to some degree but I was wondering what others’ experiences were with this sort of treatment. Thanks to any who respond! — Before you buy. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

– Before you buy.

Response:

 Hi, I have used a chiropractor in the past with good results. I can no longer go due to my diagnoisis of atlanto occipital joint arthrotopathy. My neurosurgeon says any over manipulation of my neck will paralyze me. He and I were just talking about this last week. He said for in order for it to be effective you must keep going. I think that once your chiropractor gets you aligned you will then be asked to come back once every week or two. This can be very expensive if your insurance doesn’t pay . He also stated that chiropractors are sued every year for neck injuries resulting from their manipulation. As with any medical professional I would check their medical back ground with the appropriate state agencies and try to find out if they have ever been sued for malpractice. Also find out how long they have been in practice or if they are "new’ to town. They could have lost their liscense to practice in another state. Talk with other patients in the waiting room.  I loved their cold packs and the traction bed. Enjoy the pampering. Mechelle                                                            In – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I just visited Dr. David Shwartz in Dumont, NJ for a chiropractic evaluation and treatment (we’ve had one session so far). My father says we should seriously reconsider and that there is danger from the treatment and he has heard "horror stories" about people being paralyzed or taken advantage of by being told they had to come in all the time for treatment. My wife has some misalignment in her lower back and neck while I have some in my neck while the bones there have some signs of degeneration and bone spurs. None of this is in a severe stage but there is some aches and pain. We are dieting and exercising so this should alleviate things to some degree but I was wondering what others’ experiences were with this sort of treatment. Thanks to any who respond!

– Before you buy.

Response:

If you feel better after chiro treatment maybe it is worth it. Remember, that is considered "alternative" medicine and chiropractors are not medical doctors by any means.  Psychological, or placebo effect, many times is the best medicine. You state that your wife has some misalignment in her lower back and neck and you have some in your neck. Who made that diagnosis? I will bet anything that the chiropractor did. Isn’t it strange that every patient that walks into a chiropractors office has a misalignment of some sort. I bet my wife and I would also have some spinal misalignment if we visited a chiropractor.  Do you remember that old saying- "there is a sucker born every minute." If you are willing to pay for those "treatments" the chiropractor will gladly take all that he can. Good luck and beware.

Response:

My wife and I just visited Dr. David Shwartz in Dumont, NJ for a chiropractic evaluation and treatment (we’ve had one session so far). My father says we should seriously reconsider and that there is danger from the treatment and he has heard "horror stories" about people being paralyzed or taken advantage of by being told they had to come in all the time for treatment. My wife has some misalignment in her lower back and neck while I have some in my neck while the bones there have some signs of degeneration and bone spurs. None of this is in a severe stage but there is some aches and pain. We are dieting and exercising so this should alleviate things to some degree but I was wondering what others’ experiences were with this sort of treatment. Thanks to any who respond!

Response:

I have systemic lupus and fibro.  I use a chripractor occasionally… I have some degeneration in my neck and of course pain all over.  I have noticed that when I was going 3 times a week, I had more energy.  It was getting expensive so I stopped plus it was hard for me to make that many appts (i have 2 small children) As for horror stories, I think there are horror stories w/everything.  Talk to your chiropractor about your concerns.  He’ll be able to give you more information! HTH Nicole <

Response:

Quadriplegia is a possibility, and so is sudden respiratory arrest and death. One should really avoid having anyone, even of significant skill, messing around with the upper cervical spine.  Those upper segments are not able to tolerate much compressional shear forces applied from external agencies, especially if one does not have a particularly muscular neck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Hi, I have used a chiropractor in the past with good results. I can no longer go due to my diagnoisis of atlanto occipital joint arthrotopathy. My neurosurgeon says any over manipulation of my neck will paralyze me. He and I were just talking about this last week. He said for in order for it to be effective you must keep going. I think that once your chiropractor gets you aligned you will then be asked to come back once every week or two. This can be very expensive if your insurance doesn’t pay . He also stated that chiropractors are sued every year for neck injuries resulting from their manipulation. As with any medical professional I would check their medical back ground with the appropriate state agencies and try to find out if they have ever been sued for malpractice. Also find out how long they have been in practice or if they are "new’ to town. They could have lost their liscense to practice in another state. Talk with other patients in the waiting room.  I loved their cold packs and the traction bed. Enjoy the pampering. Mechelle                                                            In My wife and I just visited Dr. David Shwartz in Dumont, NJ for a chiropractic evaluation and treatment (we’ve had one session so far). My father says we should seriously reconsider and that there is danger from the treatment and he has heard "horror stories" about people being paralyzed or taken advantage of by being told they had to come in all the time for treatment. My wife has some misalignment in her lower back and neck while I have some in my neck while the bones there have some signs of degeneration and bone spurs. None of this is in a severe stage but there is some aches and pain. We are dieting and exercising so this should alleviate things to some degree but I was wondering what others’ experiences were with this sort of treatment. Thanks to any who respond! — Before you buy.

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