My Crohn's and Colitis Blog » Chrohns » Reality … or lack thereof
Reality … or lack thereof
Question:
A little more controversy. We all agree, I think, religion is based on faith. I once read an article in which a minister (not Rabbi) stated, "If Jesus did not rise from the dead and go to heaven, he is just another person" He had no opinion on his statement. and with no opinion, the Jews think someone stole the body of Christ from the grave. Plenty of food for thought for the next millenium.. Gail
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Bonnie!! You hit the nail on the head so to speak!! Think about why….could it be that Jesus is a threat to satan? I think so..
LBHunny Again defending Christ!! 
Response:
Bonnie!! That was well put!! You are truly an inspiration! Thank you, I needed that! LBHunny Who has been lurking for quite a while!
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(parts of the original post snipped for brevity)
Ah….but the point is He IS for everyone….they just don’t know it or accept it.
Or want it? For me to say more would just be a religious debate and this isn’t the forum for that….
Well, this looks like a religious debate to me, Bonnie. I am just making a statement that it should be fine for anyone to tell another in this newsgroup what we believe is true and what we know that has helped us or given us
comfort. That is fine, but the manner in which it happens is up for debate. In doing that we are sure to offend some people but what is wrong with that?
With some topics people need to be especially careful, as they are especially sensitive, and religion is one of them. Christianity in particular has a bad track record in this regard. I am not opposed to people expressing their beliefs, but if you’ll notice I don’t go pushing mine in the face of others. I will comment freely in the newsgroup on matters which do not cause such outrage, but to make outrageous statements which were not specifically asked for (you’ll notice that in the original post Steve did not once ask for help, rather was pouring his feelings out to what he hoped would be an understanding audience) that involve such touchy areas as religion is asking to be flamed. I contend that Jesus is not the one and only answer to Steve’s problems, and to say such a thing was rather outrageous. Oops, there I go again. We can get so caught up in not offending someone or being offended ourselves that we are not allowing others to be themselves….we can be so caught up in OUR rights that we are not allowing others to exercise their rights.
What about the rights of everyone to make up their own mind with regards to choice of deity? This is the major problem I have with followers of Christ, this feeling they seem to have that everyone else needs to have the same views as themselves. The post by HNRStudent1 fairly reeked of ramming a set of beliefs down someone’s throat. If Steve had asked for what helps others to cope then I could tolerate it, but not otherwise. I really don’t think that the woman who made the original post meant to upset or offend anyone but rather to share Jesus with Steve (who, by the way, knows Jesus).
I agree with you here. I don’t think there was any intention in that post other than to assist, but surely you can see how the wording leaves the intent open to question. I believe she wrote it to help Steve. I think it should be Steve that
should respond in the negative and have the choice to accept what was written or not…I don’t think he needs protection.
I don’t think Steve needs protection, but something needed to be said about the manner in which the advice was tendered. I’m not personally attacking anybody here, rather I’m attempting to stop this sort of thing from happening again. If something isn’t said then others see that they can do the same thing and before long we lose the ’support’ in the group because we all are simply shouting instead of listening. Sam
Response:
Thanks Bonnie!!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your answer, that "Jesus is a threat to satan," clearly indicates that, as a Christian, you believe that people who don’t believe in Jesus are somehow connected with satan. No, I don’t believe that at all. I believe that satan will use whatever means he has to discredit Jesus and his followers and prevent those who don’t believe from searching Jesus out. It’s amazing that you’d want to be friends with such people. ;-) But, seriously, I think you’re entirely missing the point – this isn’t about Jesus; it’s about this notion that Jesus is for "everyone." Ah….but the point is He IS for everyone….they just don’t know it or accept it. It’s "politically correct" to state that not everyone shares the Christian belief in Jesus? No… it’s simply a fact – that only Christians feel that Jesus is "the son of G-d and the only way to be reconciled to G-d," and that the rest of us don’t. But it is a simple fact that Jesus IS the son of G-d whether the rest of the world believes it or not. Nor does it make it true just because people (me and other Christians) do believe it for that matter. Truth is Truth…. And I don’t mean MY truth….but G-d’s Truth. Midas, I am aware that this must be blasphamous to you and I mean no disrespect to you nor offense…I know how it feels to be faced with such a statement….please know that I love you but I must love Jesus more and in loving Him I am loving you by telling you who He is. For me to say more would just be a religious debate and this isn’t the forum for that….I am just making a statement that it should be fine for anyone to tell another in this newsgroup what we believe is true and what we know that has helped us or given us comfort. In doing that we are sure to offend some people but what is wrong with that? We can get so caught up in not offending someone or being offended ourselves that we are not allowing others to be themselves….we can be so caught up in OUR rights that we are not allowing others to exercise their rights. I really don’t think that the woman who made the original post meant to upset or offend anyone but rather to share Jesus with Steve (who, by the way, knows Jesus). I believe she wrote it to help Steve. I think it should be Steve that should respond in the negative and have the choice to accept what was written or not…I don’t think he needs protection. The only place where the author of the original post mentioned anyone else is when she said that Jesus wished that "all" would be saved and that is true…that is what the New Testament of the Bible quotes Jesus as saying in so many words. love, Bonnie
Response:
Howard, Believe as you will. But for us, (so far) it is good to believe. We all thank you. Gail
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Your answer, that "Jesus is a threat to satan," clearly indicates that, as a Christian, you believe that people who don’t believe in Jesus are somehow connected with satan.
No, I don’t believe that at all. I believe that satan will use whatever means he has to discredit Jesus and his followers and prevent those who don’t believe from searching Jesus out. It’s amazing that you’d want to be friends with such people. ;-)
But, seriously, I think you’re entirely missing the point – this isn’t
about Jesus; it’s about this notion that Jesus is for "everyone." Ah….but the point is He IS for everyone….they just don’t know it or accept it. It’s "politically correct" to state that not everyone shares the Christian belief in Jesus? No… it’s simply a fact – that only Christians feel that Jesus is "the son of G-d and the only way to be reconciled to G-d," and that the rest of us don’t.
But it is a simple fact that Jesus IS the son of G-d whether the rest of the world believes it or not. Nor does it make it true just because people (me and other Christians) do believe it for that matter. Truth is Truth…. And I don’t mean MY truth….but G-d’s Truth. Midas, I am aware that this must be blasphamous to you and I mean no disrespect to you nor offense…I know how it feels to be faced with such a statement….please know that I love you but I must love Jesus more and in loving Him I am loving you by telling you who He is. For me to say more would just be a religious debate and this isn’t the forum for that….I am just making a statement that it should be fine for anyone to tell another in this newsgroup what we believe is true and what we know that has helped us or given us comfort. In doing that we are sure to offend some people but what is wrong with that? We can get so caught up in not offending someone or being offended ourselves that we are not allowing others to be themselves….we can be so caught up in OUR rights that we are not allowing others to exercise their rights. I really don’t think that the woman who made the original post meant to upset or offend anyone but rather to share Jesus with Steve (who, by the way, knows Jesus). I believe she wrote it to help Steve. I think it should be Steve that should respond in the negative and have the choice to accept what was written or not…I don’t think he needs protection. The only place where the author of the original post mentioned anyone else is when she said that Jesus wished that "all" would be saved and that is true…that is what the New Testament of the Bible quotes Jesus as saying in so many words. love, Bonnie
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What a wonderful answer Howard!! Bless you!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just trying to pore some oil on troubled waters. I am reminded of a saying I heard many years ago. I was told it is an old Hebrew saying. "It is good to believe." Believe as you will. But, "It is good to believe." Howard
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That person was stating what they believe will help Steve and anyone else. I see nothing wrong with it. If she said "Please try Darvon. Take it tonight…with Darvon your burden (pain) will be easier to bear…in other words, not only should Steve turn to medicine, but he should turn to specifically that particular brand….there would be no problem…but because "Jesus" was used and not "Darvon" there is now a problem. Think about why….could it be that Jesus is a threat to satan? I think so….just my opinion based on MY experience. To be "politically correct" is to deny Jesus as the Son of God and the only way to be reconciled to God and to have everlasting life with Him in Heaven. love, Bonnie
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith It wasn’t simply an "expression of faith." HNRStudent1 didn’t merely suggest that Steve should seek comfort in religious faith – any religious faith (though even that could be construed as offensive by a "JESUS". Pray to him alone tonight…with JESUS your burden will be easier to carry" – in other words, not only should Steve turn to faith, but he should turn to specifically that particular faith. She also wrote "Jesus would like us all to be saved" – with no regard for the fact that there are many of us who don’t need "saving." — MG
Response:
Just trying to pore some oil on troubled waters. I am reminded of a saying I heard many years ago. I was told it is an old Hebrew saying. "It is good to believe." Believe as you will. But, "It is good to believe." Howard
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Bonnie, Very, very, good reply. I did not realize G-d as spirit so truly he is G-d to everyone, unless they can do without. I was afraid to mention the muslims for fear of starting a holy war. As I said. nothing happened New Years Eve, except the clock went from 1 minute to 12 to 1 minute after 12. The minute in between, I think I had to run to the bathroom. Regards always Gail
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Hi Dawn and everybody, My "new" stimulant user "mike" has me so immobile that I barely can get out. It really seems like angina., that was slowly creeping up. Honestly, I should be the last person anyone would think about As anti-social as I am, anyone could use a dummy made of straw and set it up as their listening device and they would have a better companion. There has been so much trivia on the posts, that I thought I would add my .02 cents worth (.02 cents on a good day), a thought came to me on the subject of secular and other beliefs. We know all the differences, somewhat, and this is a tongue in cheek observation. A good part of the world is Christian so I go along with King Saul, King David, King Solomon and Jesus Christ to boot. I looked for any one of them to come on New Years eve, and bring the 1,000 years of paradise promised but to my surprise and disappointment, nothing happened. The clock just went from 1 minute to 12 to 1 minute after 12. But my question is if Jesus is God’s son, and Jesus was Jewish, does that make G-d Jewish. If so, where does that leave the rest of the world.. Did G-d convert to christianity also. Of course this is hypothetical, but my answer is G-d is all things to all people, and redemption is for everybody unless you choose to believe that redemption is not necessary. We are as good as we can ever be. I hope I can be better, especially in the crohns department and in preaching the crohns solution. Sincerely Gail
Response:
As anti-social as I am, anyone could use a dummy made of straw and set it up as their listening device and they would have a better companion.
Hi Gail, The statement you made (see above) just isn’t true. I think you are a great ‘listener’ and you have very good observations and advice. Ok….aside from the cause of Crohn’s….but everything else I consider wonderful insight and a caring heart. G-d created you so you can’t put yourself down or you insult G-d’s handiwork. :-) No, G-d is not Jewish because He is Spirit, not man. Jesus came as man and was born of Mary who was Jewish and it is the mother that counts in regards to the heritage as you always know who the mother is. And Jesus will return when we LEAST expect it…not when everyone thinks he will come such as New Year’s Eve. :-) As you know the Jews are G-d’s chosen. G-d is not everything to everyone. He is the G-d of Moses and Abraham….you know that. And we can get better…we are to strive to be better…we are not as good as we can ever be…..well, we are if we don’t have G-d to help us because we are very good at sinning…but we can be better with His help. And you also know that I believe that only Jesus can redeem us (give us redemption). He is the final sacrifice for all mankind’s sin, but only if we accept it. love, Bonnie who wrote this for Gail and is not pushing her faith on the rest of the newsgroup
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I managed to miss most of that stuff last year due to intermittent mail server problems. I remember seeing those threads, but they were long by the time I read them and I felt I had nothing worthwhile to add to the discussion. It is interesting how Christianity seems to be singled out more often though, but this is human nature I think… just look at our history. How many wars were started in the name of religion? It’s a touchy subject at the best of times, so I think that if people are a little careful when including something religious in a post then everyone will get along much better. Sam
: I understand what you are saying Sam and I wasn’t trying to pick you and : Midas out as I consider you both friends…but rather the posts were similar : to other posts (and I was thinking about posts that were here during the : hurricane last year) and how they seem to get upset more at mentionings of : faith than other ways that people find for coping or "curing" our problems. : I just find it curious and this was the opportunity for me mentioning the : observation on this newsgroup (and in others for that matter…even society : in general). So please forgive me if you and Midas felt singled out… that : wasn’t my intention. : love, : Bonnie : It’s not what was said but how it was said that bothered me. I also : posted : that I generally ignore anything to do with religion because of this – it : starts too many arguments. If anyone posts something I personally find : offensive I’ll jump on it, whether it’s religious or not. : : It comes down to respect… I have no respect for those who don’t respect : others. : : I suppose what I’m saying is expresss your faith to your heart’s content, : but : in a more diplomatic way. : : Sam : : : : OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith….why not jump on others : who : : believe vitamins are the answer, or meditation, reflexology or any other : : belief in this newsgroup? What is so special about Jesus that the : "secular" : : or those of another faith feel so upset about? : : : love, : : Bonnie : : who is now putting on her foil hat. : : :
Response:
I understand what you are saying Sam and I wasn’t trying to pick you and Midas out as I consider you both friends…but rather the posts were similar to other posts (and I was thinking about posts that were here during the hurricane last year) and how they seem to get upset more at mentionings of faith than other ways that people find for coping or "curing" our problems. I just find it curious and this was the opportunity for me mentioning the observation on this newsgroup (and in others for that matter…even society in general). So please forgive me if you and Midas felt singled out… that wasn’t my intention. love, Bonnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not what was said but how it was said that bothered me. I also posted that I generally ignore anything to do with religion because of this – it starts too many arguments. If anyone posts something I personally find offensive I’ll jump on it, whether it’s religious or not. It comes down to respect… I have no respect for those who don’t respect others. I suppose what I’m saying is expresss your faith to your heart’s content, but in a more diplomatic way. Sam : OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith….why not jump on others who : believe vitamins are the answer, or meditation, reflexology or any other : belief in this newsgroup? What is so special about Jesus that the "secular" : or those of another faith feel so upset about? : love, : Bonnie : who is now putting on her foil hat.
Response:
Good question! I wondered the same thing. I know just the fact that I’m still alive is a miracle. Even the doctors (who usually want to look at themselves as the higher power) said it was a miracle. They had written me off totally and I had a signed DNR to help things along. But there was prayer going on all over the place, continuously and by people I still don’t know. So though we don’t all believe the same, it gets really hard at times not to pop up and say "Guess what, they said I was gonna die in a few minutes but…" I know I’ll probably get blasted for this but I can deal with that. After everything else, getting blasted is almost fun cause it means I’m still here. Oh well, I’ll shutup now. And won’t be home for the next few days so see ya when I get back. Libbydoo
| OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith….why not jump on others who | believe vitamins are the answer, or meditation, reflexology or any other | belief in this newsgroup? What is so special about Jesus that the "secular" | or those of another faith feel so upset about? | | love, | Bonnie | who is now putting on her foil hat. | | |
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I was going to say more about this subject. I believe in But I’ve chickened out and I just agree with Sam. John(I) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not what was said but how it was said that bothered me. I also posted that I generally ignore anything to do with religion because of this – it starts too many arguments. If anyone posts something I personally find offensive I’ll jump on it, whether it’s religious or not. It comes down to respect… I have no respect for those who don’t respect others. I suppose what I’m saying is expresss your faith to your heart’s content, but in a more diplomatic way. Sam : OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith….why not jump on others who : believe vitamins are the answer, or meditation, reflexology or any other : belief in this newsgroup? What is so special about Jesus that the "secular" : or those of another faith feel so upset about? : love, : Bonnie : who is now putting on her foil hat.
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OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith….why not jump on others who believe vitamins are the answer, or meditation, reflexology or any other belief in this newsgroup? What is so special about Jesus that the "secular" or those of another faith feel so upset about? love, Bonnie who is now putting on her foil hat.
Response:
It’s not what was said but how it was said that bothered me. I also posted that I generally ignore anything to do with religion because of this – it starts too many arguments. If anyone posts something I personally find offensive I’ll jump on it, whether it’s religious or not. It comes down to respect… I have no respect for those who don’t respect others. I suppose what I’m saying is expresss your faith to your heart’s content, but in a more diplomatic way. Sam
: OK, what is so wrong with expressing our faith….why not jump on others who : believe vitamins are the answer, or meditation, reflexology or any other : belief in this newsgroup? What is so special about Jesus that the "secular" : or those of another faith feel so upset about? : love, : Bonnie : who is now putting on her foil hat.
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: x-no-archive: yes : …Not to mention those non-secular ones who do not worship that : particular diety… Too true MG. Sam
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Steve No matter how well prepared you think you are, seeing a father or mother (or any loved one) begin to deteriorate, and need to be taken care of, is a hard ‘row to hoe.’ They are the ones who always took care of you, but now they need to be taken care of. It is a role-reversal, and it is extremely difficult to go through. Nevertheless it is a part of life. I have been through this with my mother-in-law, and within the last month my father has been admitted to a nursing home. This might sound trite, but just keep putting one foot down in front of the other. No, the world did not end on December 31st. And we had better start getting ready now for the ‘Y2.001K’ bug. That one is going to be even worse. It might affect the plumbing across the country. And experts say that it will cause blueberries to turn orange. So stock up on ‘blueberry’ paint for the real end of the millenium. There are bound to be shortages. Howard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve I can see that by you writing your feelings (or lack of) that you are fighting to stay whole …. Don’t give into the thoughts of complete abandonment !! Fight it !! You are a very worthy and valuable person .. I have learned a great deal from your postings …. a sense of not being alone ! Please seek help …. Obviously the anti depressants you are on, needs to be upped or changed love Maryjo Actually, it’s not so much depression, though certainly it is enough to depress me! Obsession and Compulsiveness are characteristics of anxiety. And the feeling of something being wrong, of not being yourself, well, that’s some of the symptoms of panic attacks, also an anxiety disorder. So, I guess my Generalized Anxiety Disorder with Panic Attacks is acting up. Of course, that’s just a guess on my part. Argh! I went out the other day and spent some money. It helped. For a while anyway. But I just am not doing so well. I would call my brain care specialist, but I’m afraid he’ll say, "Oh, well, you’re just this guy, you know?" Sorry, but I have been reading too much Douglas Adams lately. I am just too intense. That is my problem. If I could just chill out some …. But my dearest has disappeared again, taking his email address along with him this time. I have a cold. I am having to take more responsibility around the house because of my father’s condition. I really overdid it during the holidays, and I am still paying for it. And, as always, I am lonely, hate myself for being such a horrible monster, and yet wish … well, most of you know what I wish. Or rather, what I am afraid of. Or something like that. It’s easy for me to lose track of that one because I can never keep up with whether I am trying to boost my ego or protect my integrity. Hey, but how are you? Anyway, I am beginning to suspect that the world really did end on the first, and we just haven’t noticed it yet. It would be just like the human race to miss something important like that. steve (H) ASCC on the Web: www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Falls/3298 We’ve all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.
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Steve Overall, I am doing okay ! I survived working through the Holidays .. and other then always being tired .. I am holding my own .. ! Maryjo My Homepage: http://community.webtv.net/MaryjoL/MYPAGE"
Response:
I normally ignore anything to do with religion, but this particular comment has irked me to the point where I must say something:
: Dear sir: : Please allow me to introduce to you the one and only solution to your : problem. This has to be the single most ridiculous statement I have ever read. To assume that there is only one solution to a human relationship problem is absurd, considering the complex nature of human interactions. Also, you seem to be aiming your post as if Steve was complaining about his health problems… you’ll notice that they were only an afterthought. If your statement were true, in the context in which you have used it, then none of us could survive without Jesus. Yet I can assure you that I personally have no need to focus on something external to myself to remain in control of my own emotions with regards to my condition. Please phrase your advice more carefully next time to avoid offending the more secular portion of the readers of this newsgroup. Take care, Sam
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Dear sir: Please allow me to introduce to you the one and only solution to your problem. let me say this before I start. My husband has been living with chrohns for over 15 years. I believe if he had not had something to hold on it would have been virtually impossible to tolerate. With what Im going to say next, do not take it as if it is coming from a fanatic or anything else. I really just would like to share with you what has kept my husband with motivation till this day. Please try "JESUS". Pray to him alone tonight. Nobody has to see you. Give him your burden. If you dont receive an answer immediately, remember, we are suppose to ask, not demand. Tell him your worries, and don’t think that anyone can survive this on their own. According to your faith that shall be done. My husband has had faith, yes for fifteen year. No he is not cured, but you know what? He has never given up. So, what does this tell you? That means he has that sickness with a purpose. Jesus would like us all to be saved. If you accept and believe in him, if it is not his will, he wont heal you, but let me tell you, with JESUS your burden will be easier to carry. Please write if things change for you, I would be happy to hear it.
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Steve I can see that by you writing your feelings (or lack of) that you are fighting to stay whole …. Don’t give into the thoughts of complete abandonment !! Fight it !! You are a very worthy and valuable person .. I have learned a great deal from your postings …. a sense of not being alone ! Please seek help …. Obviously the anti depressants you are on, needs to be upped or changed love Maryjo My Homepage: http://community.webtv.net/MaryjoL/MYPAGE"
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