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Boy, posting twice in one week!  I have a question….. has anyone else getting tension headaches and/or Migraines ever experienced Ear pain?  as a Layman, I am guessing that it is associated with the muscle spasams that supposidly cause my tension headaches… I mentioned it to my PT and unfortunatlly my Neuro is on vacation… was just wondering if anyone else had heard of/ experienced this and could give me info? Thanks Kristen Leigh

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My jaw has cracked for years… was told that it was misaligned… no one ever mentioned TMJ though…… Will be taking notes to discuss with doc next time i see him I guess  :o)  Something else to add to list of complaints! Kristen Leigh

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I have always described it as more of an ear cramp in the middle of my ear… most think im nuts for saying this but thats what it feels like…. doesnt seem to be associated with when or when I dont get a migraine though…. I dunno why… its certaintly weird! KristenLeigh PS… Nope no Nine Inch Nails… not this week  :o)

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(KLeigh888) writes: Boy, posting twice in one week!  I have a question….. has anyone else getting tension headaches and/or Migraines ever experienced Ear pain?

Have you been crankin out the Nine Inch Nails again? Take two doses of the Moody Blues "On the Threshold of a Dream" and call me in the morning. Bob

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Migraines ever experienced Ear pain?

Kristin,for about 12 hours after my migraines go away i get ear pain. Like someone is stabbing a knife in my ear.just short bursts of pain .kinda wierd.

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Kristen: Yes, yes, yes, to getting ear pain along with miagraines and chronic daily headaches.  Starting several months ago, I kept thinking I had an ear infection, and made several trips to the doctor, along with taking decongestants and antihistimines, thinking my Eustachian tube was stopped up or having dysfunction.. It was a sharp pain that felt like it was right in my ear. Made me miserable. Long story short, it ended up being the temperomandibular joint (TMJ), and turned out to be because I was clenching my teeth..something that also contributes to the headache. The doctors told me that the same nerve that is responsible for ear pain is the one that supplies TMJ pain. I dont have to go through the TMJ syndrome treatment (yet!) because I am not having the other symptoms (jaw locking up, a popping or cracking sound, etc), just making a conscious effort to unclench my teeth whenever I catch myself doing it. You have to wonder how many migraines that little habit of mine has caused. Jane "It is in the shelter of each other that people live…." (Irish proverb)

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8< was right in my ear. Made me miserable. Long story short, it ended up being the temperomandibular joint (TMJ), and turned out to be because I was clenching my teeth..something that also contributes to the headache. The doctors told me that the same nerve that is responsible for ear pain is the one that supplies TMJ pain. I dont have to go through the TMJ syndrome treatment (yet!) because I am not having the other symptoms (jaw locking up, a popping or cracking sound, etc), just making a conscious effort to unclench my teeth whenever I catch myself doing it. You have to wonder how many migraines that little habit of mine has caused.

Hello! If you would like more info on TMJ problems (which it sounds like you might!) there is apparently a lot of good info on Dr. Jim Boyd’s web pages at the h.p.i.  I don’t know the URLs off hand, but I’ve already seen them in another post from "Jill" recently. I’m a tmj’er, rather than a migraineur, and fortunately suffer far less than a lot of people. Something which has become apparent to me is that there is a lot of myth and misinformation about it going on; I had symptoms which were decreasing my life quality, but don’t have clicking or popping, for example. HTH someone! Karax

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I, too, have been suffering pain and a kind of pressure in the ears.  I thought it was congestion from sinus for a long time, now I am beginning to think its tension.  I suffer CDH and migraine.  Always thought I had sinus headaches, but now, after suffering a real bout of sinusitis, the pain’s not quite the same and I am beginning to think its tension.   Anyone ever tried one of those teeth guard things that you bite on to prevent jaw muscle tension? Migraines ever experienced Ear pain? Kristin,for about 12 hours after my migraines go away i get ear pain. Like someone is stabbing a knife in my ear.just short bursts of pain .kinda wierd.

– Meri

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Hi there. I was quickly brousing the posts and almost left when i saw your. Yes, I suffer ear pain. Usually the right. I don’t know why, I don’t detect that i am doing anything ususual to make it painful but my doctor yeterday did suggest muscle spasm with my tension headaches (her opinion.) Today I am using a cold pack on my shoulder and ear to ease the pain that has built up after 6 days in head pain. I think its leaving finally though. Polly Boy, posting twice in one week!  I have a question….. has anyone else getting tension headaches and/or Migraines ever experienced Ear pain?  as a Layman, I am guessing that it is associated with the muscle spasams that supposidly cause my tension headaches… I mentioned it to my PT and unfortunatlly my Neuro is on vacation… was just wondering if anyone else had heard of/ experienced this and could give me info? Thanks

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I called my Neuro to refill my Stadol and to give me something else besides my Fiorinal w/Codeine because it is not helping my headaches anymore. (still get that warm, tingly, loopy feeling but still have headache)  When I had my appointment with him last Thursday he said to try the Fiorinal again since I had not taken it in 3 weeks.  He thought it might work again.  If not he said to call.  Well when the office called back she said he had called in the Stadol and Fiocet w/codeine. When I had called I had asked for Percocet or Percodan or something along those lines that would have a different reaction than Fiorinal but allow me to function.  I told her I thought the only difference between Fiorinal and Fiocet was one had asprin and one tylenol.  She said I think that is right.  Then I asked if they had explained that I had asked for a different med not a refill and she was not sure.  She is going to double check and call me back tomorrow. Question: If Fiorinal stopped working for you what else would you think would help?  Does Percocet work for anyone here? Thank in advance for your knowledge!! Red Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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If you haven’t heard of "rebound" headaches then you should read as much as possible about. Basically the analgesics that many people take for chronic daily headaches can acutally cause more headaches. These patients need to be taken off the analgesics and put on appropriate headache prophylactic medications. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I called my Neuro to refill my Stadol and to give me something else besides my Fiorinal w/Codeine because it is not helping my headaches anymore. (still get that warm, tingly, loopy feeling but still have headache)  When I had my appointment with him last Thursday he said to try the Fiorinal again since I had not taken it in 3 weeks.  He thought it might work again.  If not he said to call.  Well when the office called back she said he had called in the Stadol and Fiocet w/codeine. When I had called I had asked for Percocet or Percodan or something along those lines that would have a different reaction than Fiorinal but allow me to function.  I told her I thought the only difference between Fiorinal and Fiocet was one had asprin and one tylenol.  She said I think that is right.  Then I asked if they had explained that I had asked for a different med not a refill and she was not sure.  She is going to double check and call me back tomorrow. Question: If Fiorinal stopped working for you what else would you think would help?  Does Percocet work for anyone here? Thank in advance for your knowledge!! Red Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Hi Red I am sorry I cannot answer any of your other questions but – isn’t the use of codeine ( opiates ) and Stadol severely contraindicated? My doctor wouldn’t put me on that combination for a million bucks. Can you check into that? This could be a big health hazard waiting to happen……. Please, anyone out there, correct me if I am wrong…. peace shauna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I called my Neuro to refill my Stadol and to give me something else besides my Fiorinal w/Codeine because it is not helping my headaches anymore. (still get that warm, tingly, loopy feeling but still have headache)  When I had my appointment with him last Thursday he said to try the Fiorinal again since I had not taken it in 3 weeks.  He thought it might work again.  If not he said to call.  Well when the office called back she said he had called in the Stadol and Fiocet w/codeine. When I had called I had asked for Percocet or Percodan or something along those lines that would have a different reaction than Fiorinal but allow me to function.  I told her I thought the only difference between Fiorinal and Fiocet was one had asprin and one tylenol.  She said I think that is right.  Then I asked if they had explained that I had asked for a different med not a refill and she was not sure.  She is going to double check and call me back tomorrow. Question: If Fiorinal stopped working for you what else would you think would help?  Does Percocet work for anyone here? Thank in advance for your knowledge!! Red Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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If you haven’t heard of "rebound" headaches then you should read as much as possible about. Basically the analgesics that many people take for chronic daily headaches can acutally cause more headaches. These patients need to be taken off the analgesics and put on appropriate headache prophylactic medications.

ahmmm… do you mind if I ask on what basis you’re assuming rebound? this has to be the second or third post from you today along these lines; I’m curious (and concerned) as to why you’re so certain. pretty much all of us here (though I can’t speak for Red… Red?) are *very* well aware of what rebound is — and isn’t.  Heaven knows enough of us have been on pointless withdrawal/denial courses to prove someone’s pet theory right… sometimes chronic pain that can only be controlled (or modified, for a whole bunch of us) by analgesics is simply chronic pain that can only be controlled by analgesics. cheers, butting

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you haven’t heard of "rebound" headaches then you should read as much as possible about. Basically the analgesics that many people take for chronic daily headaches can acutally cause more headaches. These patients need to be taken off the analgesics and put on appropriate headache prophylactic medications. I called my Neuro to refill my Stadol and to give me something else besides my Fiorinal w/Codeine because it is not helping my headaches anymore. (still get that warm, tingly, loopy feeling but still have headache)  When I had my appointment with him last Thursday he said to try the Fiorinal again since I had not taken it in 3 weeks.  He thought it might work again.  If not he said to call.  Well when the office called back she said he had called in the Stadol and Fiocet w/codeine. When I had called I had asked for Percocet or Percodan or something along those lines that would have a different reaction than Fiorinal but allow me to function.  I told her I thought the only difference between Fiorinal and Fiocet was one had asprin and one tylenol.  She said I think that is right.  Then I asked if they had explained that I had asked for a different med not a refill and she was not sure.  She is going to double check and call me back tomorrow. Question: If Fiorinal stopped working for you what else would you think would help?  Does Percocet work for anyone here? Thank in advance for your knowledge!! Red Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

I agree that rebound is indeed a problem, the same goes for overuse of the triptans however, when I first heard of rebound, I had my doc take me off ALL pain meds and I was hospitalized during this time.  After 5 days my Nuero told me that a 10% population of migrainuers do not suffer from rebound. This doc was from Menninger’s in Topeka Kansas and really knew her stuff.  Needless to say, I was determined, didn’t take so much as a tylenol for 6 months and the pattern didn’t change.  Anyone who thinks they may be suffering rebound shoud stop the use of analgesic for an appropriate amount of time, and if using a triptan more than 2 times weekly should try the same with they’re doc’s approval. Jan…wishing it was just rebound!

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Question: If Fiorinal stopped working for you what else would you think would help?  Does Percocet work for anyone here?

No, Percocet doesn’t work for me (I know this only because it was prescribed for me once for a dental surgery and I used a couple of left overs on my headadches).  However, I don’t know where you are, but in the states, Percodan and Percocet are triplicate prescriptions which, in essence, means a lot of doctors are very reluctant to prescribe them anyway.  You thing T3 is hard to get???  Try Percocet!  (at least in my neck of the woods) "It’s all relative"

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NEVER mix stadol and opiates…! stadol is an agonist for opiotes and can cause big problems.. percocet works the best for me though sometimes i need the big demerol dose at the er.. i travel a lot for work.. fly about 80,000 miles a year and been to a few er’s in my travels.. my insurance company loves me! —

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Isn’t stadol an agonist-antagonist?  It is still a good idea not to mix it with a full opiate agonists.  They pretty much cancel each other out and make you sick….yeeee haaaa! Check http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/butor.htm Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – NEVER mix stadol and opiates…! stadol is an agonist for opiotes and can cause big problems.. percocet works the best for me though sometimes i need the big demerol dose at the er.. i travel a lot for work.. fly about 80,000 miles a year and been to a few er’s in my travels.. my insurance company loves me! —

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Thanks for the suggestion about rebound.  I have looked into that and we pulled me off of everything for a month to see if that would be the cause of some headaches.  It was not.  I got to spend a fun filled month of headaches, lots of ice packs, and living in my bed not sleeping cursing my life.  I am now on Neurontin as a preventive (tried Beta-Blockers and Antidep. already)  I don’t care to be in anymore pain then I have to while I wait and see if this is going to work. As for Stadol and Opiates(?) I asked my last Dr about the two and she had no problem with it.  I have decided since then that she is a quack so…. This Neuro does not seem to think they will enter act either.  But I will double check.  I don’t really take them together.  And I don’t take anything everyday.  But it would not hurt to double check. Thanks! Red – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you haven’t heard of "rebound" headaches then you should read as much as possible about. Basically the analgesics that many people take for chronic daily headaches can acutally cause more headaches. These patients need to be taken off the analgesics and put on appropriate headache prophylactic medications. I called my Neuro to refill my Stadol and to give me something else besides my Fiorinal w/Codeine because it is not helping my headaches anymore. (still get that warm, tingly, loopy feeling but still have headache)  When I had my appointment with him last Thursday he said to try the Fiorinal again since I had not taken it in 3 weeks.  He thought it might work again.  If not he said to call.  Well when the office called back she said he had called in the Stadol and Fiocet w/codeine. When I had called I had asked for Percocet or Percodan or something along those lines that would have a different reaction than Fiorinal but allow me to function.  I told her I thought the only difference between Fiorinal and Fiocet was one had asprin and one tylenol.  She said I think that is right.  Then I asked if they had explained that I had asked for a different med not a refill and she was not sure. She is going to double check and call me back tomorrow. Question: If Fiorinal stopped working for you what else would you think would help?  Does Percocet work for anyone here? Thank in advance for your knowledge!! Red Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Is there more than one doctor at the clinic you go to? If you’re limited to where you can go, maybe you can just try a different doctor at the same place. Where I go there are two doctors. One of them gives me a rough ride. The other is so absolutely good to me, and tries to do whatever he can for me. I think just because doctors work at the same place, it doesn’t have to mean they work in the same way. Just a thought. Cyndi For Mike – My Brother, My Friend http://members.tripod.com/~cyn59/index.html

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What, does one do when the doc’s make them feel like a drug seeker.

Welcome to the group, Den is it? Is that your name or is that the place you hide out? Sounds more comfortable than the cave that some of us hide out in when the pain gets to be too much. Let me take a little bit different approach (even for me) To your first question, most of us would tell you to search out a more compassionate doc. But, not knowing all the converstations, and the doc’s qualifications for treating migraines, this may not always be the best thing. *IF* your doc is qualified to treat migraines, and he honestly feels that some pain killers may not be suited for your particular condition, he may be correct in not prescribing *some* forms of pain killers. Maybe you keep asking for something that he honestly feels is contraindicated in your case. Maybe you need to ask for something different. If he *is* competant in this field, he should have come up with some adequate pain relief by now, but sometimes they need a bit of urging. If your migraines are pretty much constant, then many of the opiate pain killers may lead to more trouble, which you don’t need. But, if this is the case, then maybe some of the long acting opiates are called for. Maybe Duragesic patches, maybe MS Contin? He should be willing to discuss *all* available options. Do I just try

to live with the HA or do I try to find another doc . No one should be told, or have to, resign yourself to "just live with it" Hope is what keeps us going.  My problem is I am on a

HMO and this clinic is the only one in town. my pain is getting unbearable

almost to the point of wishing I was dead!! If not for my children I don’t know

If you what to move on to another doc, try to get a referral. Check out the FAQ’s for the Phone #’s of the different headache associations and see who they suggest you see in your area. Even if the clinic or doc is out of your area, this may only mean an occaisional trip. Many times people see doc’s from other states, let alone counties. If they help, it’s worth the time, and the travel costs are tax deductable (my favorite reason to travel).  The clinic I go to sees people from all over the world. A trip once or twice a year and the rest done over the phone. Has anyone gone through this and if so what do I do.

98% of us have been thru this. I hope we can be of some help.  I just want to Live without the HA or at least try to live with them.

Living without it should be your goal. Living with it should be only be one stop on your journey. Support from those around you will help make that time be as painless as possible. Some people have found some success with pain clinics. Your doctor’s goal should be to make your time "living with it" as short and as painless as reasonably possible, *only* while you’re trying to get to the "living without it" part. I have been through every test known to the medical comminuty. I even had a brain byopsy I don’t think I would go

through all of these test if I really did not suffer from the pain!

We believe you. If your doctor has lost some respect for your condition, hit the road. The one reason that I’m not yet convinced that he *isn’t* wrong for you, is the fact that he has continued searching for an answer for you with all these tests. That is, if he/she is the one doing the tests. But, after all these tests, he/she still isn’t sure of a diagnosis, or how to treat you…….when will he? Best of luck The more info we have, the better we can offer *advice*. We don’t know which tests you have had, if you have had them all, or the right ones. We don’t know what meds you have tried. We don’t know what type of headaches you are diagnosed as having. I guess we gave alot of info based on knowing very little. I hope what we gave was on track. Bob Listen to the tide slowly turning Wash all our heartaches away We are part of the fire that is burning And from the ashes we can build another day [J.H.]

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What, does one do when the doc’s make them feel like a drug seeker.Do I just try to live with the HA or do I try to find another doc . My problem is I am on a HMO and this clinic is the only one in town. my pain is getting unbearable almost to the point of wishing I was dead!! If not for my children I don’t know Has anyone gone through this and if so what do I do. I just want to Live without the HA or at least try to live with them. I have been through every test known to the medical comminuty. I even had a brain byopsy I don’t think I would go through all of these test if I really did not suffer from the pain!

I’m sorry to hear you’re having so much trouble.  Personally, I go to another physician when I don’t get adequate care from one facility.  Most physicians undermine migraine headaches or other headaches that are severe in nature. Also, when a patient asks or tells the doctor what works for their headache, the doctor is prone to present the opposite treatment in some cases.  Doctors feel they know what is best for the patient and that the patient shouldn’t negate the physician’s "better" judgement.  I’m not sure what choices you have in regards to switching doctors, however I would pursue any means possible to start fresh with someone new. Chris

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What, does one do when the doc’s make them feel like a drug seeker.Do I just try to live with the HA or do I try to find another doc . My problem is I am on a HMO

I think I would deffinatly try to get to another doctor. Maybe there is another one in the same clinic that may be better. It really stinks when the doctors don’t want to help! to get you by, Take care, Jackie k

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Does anyone know if they still make Cafergot in any form? Cafergot CafergotPB Cafergot Suppositories Are generics available? Since the arrival of Imitrex, which my docs won’t let me take due to heart problems, I can’t really recall any mention of Cafergot anymore.  I miss my Imitrex and the docs won’t give me any triptans.  What’s left?  That’s all I can think of as an abortive aside from painkillers but won’t ask for it if it’s not around any longer. Thanx– dogz

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Hey dogz, I googled Cafergot and read some of the listings.  It looks like you can get it online, either from Mexico or Canada.  There is also info about a lawsuit and how to find a lawyer.  Don’t know what that is about.  I can’t take Imitrex either.  It makes me deathly ill and my blood pressure drop like a rock.  I use Maxalt MLT the most.  It melts on your tongue and will usually take care of a moderate HA all by itself.  If more than moderate HA, I will add 1/2 to 1 Vicodin. Karen P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know if they still make Cafergot in any form? Cafergot CafergotPB Cafergot Suppositories Are generics available? Since the arrival of Imitrex, which my docs won’t let me take due to heart problems, I can’t really recall any mention of Cafergot anymore.  I miss my Imitrex and the docs won’t give me any triptans.  What’s left?  That’s all I can think of as an abortive aside from painkillers but won’t ask for it if it’s not around any longer. Thanx– dogz

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I haven’t heard anything about it either—-I always ask  people what they are on and no one has mentioned Cafergot in a avery long time— I’ve had these headaches since 12–and back in the 60’s a doctor gave the Cafergot  He told me in the beginning that it would either be my best friend and help or make things worse I can fell you are looking for this because it helped I was so sick with the very 1st pill  I took I would not move—it made things so much worse  All I could do was lie so still that I almost was not breathing—I have had some very bad headaches–but never anything like that Call your Pharmacy  and ask Take care,  Joyce Carpe diem–seize the day    

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There’s a few on this newsgroup that take cafegot.  I’m sure it’s still available, but you’ll need a prescription and then check with the pharmacy. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know if they still make Cafergot in any form? Cafergot CafergotPB Cafergot Suppositories Are generics available? Since the arrival of Imitrex, which my docs won’t let me take due to heart problems, I can’t really recall any mention of Cafergot anymore.  I miss my Imitrex and the docs won’t give me any triptans.  What’s left?  That’s all I can think of as an abortive aside from painkillers but won’t ask for it if it’s not around any longer. Thanx– dogz

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Does anyone know if they still make Cafergot in any form?

Indeed they do … Sorry I missed this post earlier, but I’ll say now that cafergot has been my mainstay for a long time (35 years?).  I don’t think they make the sublingual anymore;  I know they no longer make it combined with phenobarbitol (which was great for nighttime headaches when you don’t want all that caffeine);  I don’t know about pills, but suspect they are still available..  I use the suppository form for several reasons:  It can be "kept down" when the migraine is causing nausea, it works fast enough to satisfy my impatience with the damned head pain,  and finallyy, it can be sliced into smaller doses if you have trouble dealing with the side effect of nausea.   Cafergot has a mixed reputation … It’s considered by just about everybody to lead to the dreaded rebound  if you use it too often.  My sister’s doc told her she absolutely must not take it anymore because of her age (71) … but more explanation was not given   (Midrin was the substitute offered). Anyway, long story short … Cafergot suppositorys are made by Novartis. They have occassionally been unavailable for periods of time for reasons I don’t understand, but there they are back again just as I’m going into panic.  I’ve discovewred that a third of a suppository usually does the trick for me.  If not, I take another in an hour.  My sister hated the nausea & made do with a 1/4 of a suppository (let them soften a bit before slicing; if you slice them directly out of the refrigerator; you’ll waste a bit)

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Hi Gloria: I’m in Toronto. I’ve never heard of this doctor myself but, is this guy for real. Maybe he comes from another planet. take care. Love, Caroline.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, all and this is a question for those of you in Ontario.  End of Feb I see a neurosurgeon about my back and legs.  MRI from four years ago showed degenerative disc disease and herniated discs.  The condition is so much worse now.  Anyway, in the past I’ve had docs say take up tennis and lose 20 pounds and you’ll be fine.  So, my question is, is anyone familiar with a neurosurgeon at Sunnybrook Hospital named Rajiv Midha?  I never have luck with any docs and am worried already that I will have to add him to my growing list of idiot docs. — all bulk and spam email forbidden "the dot oharas" and it’s at "sympatico", "dot" "ca"

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Hi, all and this is a question for those of you in Ontario.  End of Feb I see a neurosurgeon about my back and legs.  MRI from four years ago showed degenerative disc disease and herniated discs.  The condition is so much worse now.  Anyway, in the past I’ve had docs say take up tennis and lose 20 pounds and you’ll be fine.  So, my question is, is anyone familiar with a neurosurgeon at Sunnybrook Hospital named Rajiv Midha?  I never have luck with any docs and am worried already that I will have to add him to my growing list of idiot docs. — all bulk and spam email forbidden "the dot oharas" and it’s at "sympatico", "dot" "ca"

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. Perhaps you could list the other things tried . Then one could eliminate non working alternatives, and search for ones that do help.  

Chinese medicine, accupuncture, chiropractic, biofeedback, holistic medicine, herbal medicine, exercise, no exercise, elimination diets, no carb diets, anti-depressants, anti-convulsants, abortive drugs specifically for migraines and narcotics.  I HAVE found the ones that work.  Abortives such as Imitrex and narcotics for when I need to sleep. My post was because it seems that the majority of postings here are about drugs .

Well, maybe there is a REASON for that.  Do you have migraines?  Have you suffered for years with them?  What is YOUR experience with this topic? I do not think drugs are the best or only answer.

You are entitled to your opinion and certainly not every drug works for every person or every migraine for that matter. Also folks frequently are "insulted" when they do not have a reasonable answer to a question .

I found the QUESTIONS to be unreasonable and totally lacking in compassion and understanding of the malady from which we suffer. Red

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Medicine:   Why is it that so many folks put up with these headaches for years?

Because some of us are too cowardly for suicide.  Others are restrained by obligations of family or religion. Why do so many still have faith in the doctors? Why keep taking drugs , when one still has headaches?

When I take a familiar drug which helps some of the time, I hope this will be one of the times it helps, at least a little bit.  When I take a new drug, or a new dosage of an old drug, I’m hoping it will help. It’s a slow, painful, expensive, frustrating experimental process.  I participate in it because not taking any drugs is even more painful and frustrating. Why, for gods sake not look to other forms of help?

We do.  They don’t help either.  I don’t know what kind of snake oil you’re selling, and I don’t really care.   Your complete lack of understanding or respect is painfully obvious. Adrian …and the voice of the turtle is heard in the land.

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      Have you tried a combination of Chiropractic and Traditional Chinese Medicine ?  Seems to help a lot of cases.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it that so many folks put up with these headaches for years? Why do so many still have faith in the doctors? Why keep taking drugs , when one still has headaches? Why, for gods sake not look to other forms of help? Why do you assume we are morons??  I find your post very insulting.  Not only for god’s sake, but for Pete’s sake and many other’s sakes, I have looked to other forms of help ALL TO NO AVAIL AND TO THE DEFLATING OF MY CHECKBOOK!!!! Red –"vowing to use my brain more and to succumb to false hope less."

Response:

    Do you mean to say that none of the alternatives have helped folks ?  I have to say that it is hard to believe that the only thing is drugs/doctors . Perhaps you could list the other things tried . Then one could eliminate non working alternatives, and search for ones that do help.  My post was because it seems that the majority of postings here are about drugs . I do not think drugs are the best or only answer.  Also folks frequently are "insulted" when they do not have a reasonable answer to a question . For example , I’m not insulted that you accuse me of thinking you all "morons". Even though you have no idea how I think .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why is it that so many folks put up with these headaches for years? Why do so many still have faith in the doctors? Why keep taking drugs , when one still has headaches? Why, for gods sake not look to other forms of help? Why do you assume we are morons??  I find your post very insulting.  Not only for god’s sake, but for Pete’s sake and many other’s sakes, I have looked to other forms of help ALL TO NO AVAIL AND TO THE DEFLATING OF MY CHECKBOOK!!!! Red –"vowing to use my brain more and to succumb to false hope less."

Response:

  Why is it that so many folks put up with these headaches for years?Why do so many still have faith in the doctors? Why keep taking drugs , when one still has headaches? Why, for gods sake not look to other forms of help?<

Oh my. You struck it rich here, pal. Why do I put up with headaches? Yeah, I PUT UP with the headaches, genius. I enjoy waking up with pain everyday, all day, 365 days of year. That’s BUCKETS of fun for me. I actually put up with them because it’s all a big facade. At night I really come home and giggle about making people *think I have pain all the time. Why do I have *faith in the doctors? You ASSume I have faith in doctors. I have faith in *TWO* beings in this world. Me and GOD. That’s it. That’s the only thing that makes me get up in the morning. What I do have FAITH in is that someTHING somewhere will help me. Be it medicine, a person, a bolt of lightning, a stiff drink, or an asinine comment that (whoa, shocker here.) I confront everyday. Next weirdass question: Why do I take drugs when I still have headaches? The medicines I *do take help me not to stay in bed permanently. As in, in so much pain I cannot walk. Last question: Other forms you ask? How about herbs? Done it. Chiropractors? Done it times 2. Physical therapy? Done it. Specialist? Done it times 3. Neurologists? Done it times 4. Other doctors? Try an internist, 2 dentists(over a thousand dollars worth of cavities replaced and dental work done), ENT, rheumatolgist, massage therapy, water therapy, diet, detox. You name it, I’ve done it. Please. One has for God’s sake. Ashli "I’m really easy to get along with once you people learn to worship me."

Response:

Why is it that so many folks put up with these headaches for years? Why do so many still have faith in the doctors? Why keep taking drugs , when one still has headaches? Why, for gods sake not look to other forms of help?

Why do you assume we are morons??  I find your post very insulting.  Not only for god’s sake, but for Pete’s sake and many other’s sakes, I have looked to other forms of help ALL TO NO AVAIL AND TO THE DEFLATING OF MY CHECKBOOK!!!! Red –"vowing to use my brain more and to succumb to false hope less."

Response:

   Why is it that so many folks put up with these headaches for years?Why do so many still have faith in the doctors? Why keep taking drugs , when one still has headaches? Why, for gods sake not look to other forms of help?

That’s easy. In my case, I

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