Question:
A pulmonologist is a doctor who specializes in the respiratory system. Many sleep docs are pulmonologists. Most of them like to treat the mechanics with non-invasive treatments like *PAP. Some sleep docs are neurologists who want to bombard you with drugs. Some sleep docs are ENT (ear-nose-throat, also known as otolaryngologists), who want you to have expensive, painful, and useless surgery in order to facilitate their next Lexu$ acquisition. regards, eric pearson db2e…@nospammindspring.com On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:08:20 -0500, Liam Ness <work…@the.factory
wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Who is a pulmonologist. See, I can’t even mantain my concentration >enough to remember what I was talking about…. By truly, thanks for >all the help. >On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:29:09 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>wrote: >>> Thank you and everyone else who have taken the time to share your >>> knowledge. I have made an appointment to see the closest diplomated >>> MD at the end of Feburary. >>…. who is a ??? >>> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:07:08 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>>> wrote: >>> >Here’s how my thoughts ran on choosing a sleep doctor with a particular >>> >specialty, in your case the same as mine, a neurologist or a pulmonologist. >>> >I connect sleep to the brain, not the lungs <vsg> (very small grin). I did not >>> >have any kind of airway/breathing problem. So I chose a neurologist sleep doc. >>> >After I started on cpap I developed some possible breathing problems associated >>> >with my fairly well controlled bronchial-asthma, so I went to a pulmonologist. >>> >But I specifically picked one that was not a diplomated sleep doc because I >>> >wanted a pulmonologist who spent all his time working on pulmonology. >>> >Probably, quite fortunately, his office partner is a diplomated sleep doc; >>> >however I’ve never seen him…. and hope I never have to. >>> >Since I have 100% coverage for doctors (no prescriptions though) via medicare >>> >and Blue Shield, it is difficult for me to ’stronly suggest’ that you pay out of >>> >your own pocket, For me it would depend on whether I felt good enough to spend >>> >the money anywhere at all. If not, see the neurologist. >>> >HTH >>> >Liam Ness wrote: >>> >> Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read >>> >> the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I >>> >> am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is >>> >> worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, >>> >> or something akin to it. >>> >> I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are >>> >> nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology >>> >> (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about >>> >> 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. >>> >> I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the >>> >> neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of >>> >> pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking >>> >> about? >>> >> I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And >>> >> Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were >>> >> primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but >>> >> not concerned enough) to push them. >>> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>>> >> wrote: >>> >> >Liam Ness wrote: >>> >> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >> I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family >>> >> >> physician. >>> >> >Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep >>> >> >disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. >>> >> >And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. >>> >> >> At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general >>> >> >> response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to >>> >> >> much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically >>> >> >> cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That >>> >> >> said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very >>> >> >> little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, >>> >> >> but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and >>> >> >> miss as going to a witch doctor. >>> >> >> >First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have >>> >> >> >described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, >>> >> >> >IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
In article <20030122001652.05409.00000…@mb-mp.aol.com
,
vparle…@aol.com (Vparlette) wrote:
Hi I was wondering if you’ve had any insight into this problem. I too have had a increasingly severe case of insomnia. Always present but now I feel like I can no lobger function the way I used to, I’m lethargic, confused and irritable yet cannot fall asleep. I absolutely do not know how! I didn’t sleep at all last night or the night before (Sunday and Monday) on Saturday I slept only for 3 hours and Friday just one. My average was 3 per night sometimes missing one night a week. But now it has gotten so much worse. I am terrified and don’t know what to do? I’m really worried about how this will impact my career and health.
When I was depressed after my late husband’s death, this sounds just like my most obvious symptom of depression. I didn’t have *any* of the classic big ticket items at first (like crying jags, etc.). But I went to my doctor because I couldn’t sleep. He put me on a double-whammy (Elavil and Serzone). The first helped my sleep all by itself. There may, of course, be other causes, as Lee points out. Your doc should also check your blood pressure or have you monitor it periodically during the day for a time. (I did, and was quite surprised to find out that my 2 p.m. crash was literally when my blood pressure was at its lowest during the day). — _Deirdre http://deirdre.net A: No. Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -No Rest wrote:
You’re not alone. My sleepless nights always occur when I know that my work day is going to be busy or stressful. Sleeping pills don’t work for me either. I just lie there with a tired buzz. "Vparlette" <vparle…@aol.com wrote in message news:20030122001652.05409.00000165@mb-mp.aol.com… Hi I was wondering if you’ve had any insight into this problem. I too have had a increasingly severe case of insomnia. Always present but now I feel like I can no lobger function the way I used to, I’m lethargic, confused and irritable yet cannot fall asleep. I absolutely do not know how! I didn’t sleep at all last night or the night before (Sunday and Monday) on Saturday I slept only for 3 hours and Friday just one. My average was 3 per night sometimes missing one night a week. But now it has gotten so much worse. I am terrified and don’t know what to do? I’m really worried about how this will impact my career and health.
Your answer is in your second sentance. You are hypertensive and/or depressed. You need to see a doctor about this. SOON! Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Hi I was wondering if you’ve had any insight into this problem. I too have had a increasingly severe case of insomnia. Always present but now I feel like I can no lobger function the way I used to, I’m lethargic, confused and irritable yet cannot fall asleep. I absolutely do not know how! I didn’t sleep at all last night or the night before (Sunday and Monday) on Saturday I slept only for 3 hours and Friday just one. My average was 3 per night sometimes missing one night a week. But now it has gotten so much worse. I am terrified and don’t know what to do? I’m really worried about how this will impact my career and health.
Response:
You’re not alone. My sleepless nights always occur when I know that my work day is going to be busy or stressful. Sleeping pills don’t work for me either. I just lie there with a tired buzz. "Vparlette" <vparle…@aol.com
wrote in message
news:20030122001652.05409.00000165@mb-mp.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Hi I was wondering if you’ve had any insight into this problem. I too
have had
a increasingly severe case of insomnia. Always present but now I feel
like I
can no lobger function the way I used to, I’m lethargic, confused and
irritable
yet cannot fall asleep. I absolutely do not know how! I didn’t sleep at
all
last night or the night before (Sunday and Monday) on Saturday I slept
only for
3 hours and Friday just one. My average was 3 per night sometimes missing
one
night a week. But now it has gotten so much worse. I am terrified and
don’t
know what to do? I’m really worried about how this will impact my career
and
health.
Response:
Who is a pulmonologist. See, I can’t even mantain my concentration enough to remember what I was talking about…. By truly, thanks for all the help. On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 01:29:09 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Thank you and everyone else who have taken the time to share your >> knowledge. I have made an appointment to see the closest diplomated >> MD at the end of On this site Feburary. >…. who is a ??? >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:07:08 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>> wrote: >> >Here’s how my thoughts ran on choosing a sleep doctor with a particular >> >specialty, in your case the same as mine, a neurologist or a pulmonologist. >> >I connect sleep to the brain, not the lungs <vsg> (very small grin). I did not >> >have any kind of airway/breathing problem. So I chose a neurologist sleep doc. >> >After I started on cpap I developed some possible breathing problems associated >> >with my fairly well controlled bronchial-asthma, so I went to a pulmonologist. >> >But I specifically picked one that was not a diplomated sleep doc because I >> >wanted a pulmonologist who spent all his time working on pulmonology. >> >Probably, quite fortunately, his office partner is a diplomated sleep doc; >> >however I’ve never seen him…. and hope I never have to. >> >Since I have 100% coverage for doctors (no prescriptions though) via medicare >> >and Blue Shield, it is difficult for me to ’stronly suggest’ that you pay out of >> >your own pocket, For me it would depend on whether I felt good enough to spend >> >the money anywhere at all. If not, see the neurologist. >> >HTH >> >Liam Ness wrote: >> >> Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read >> >> the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I >> >> am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is >> >> worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, >> >> or something akin to it. >> >> I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are >> >> nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology >> >> (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about >> >> 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. >> >> I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the >> >> neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of >> >> pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking >> >> about? >> >> I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And >> >> Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were >> >> primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but >> >> not concerned enough) to push them. >> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>> >> wrote: >> >> >Liam Ness wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family >> >> >> physician. >> >> >Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep >> >> >disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. >> >> >And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. >> >> >> At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general >> >> >> response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to >> >> >> much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically >> >> >> cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That >> >> >> said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very >> >> >> little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, >> >> >> but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and >> >> >> miss as going to a witch doctor. >> >> >> >First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have >> >> >> >described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, >> >> >> >IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:16:41 -0500, Liam Ness <work…@the.factory
wrote: Oh, sorry I forgot, but thanks very much for getting back to me so quickly. I guess that is one of the benefits of an insomnic newsgroup, you can get an answer anytime of the night. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>wrote: >I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family >physician. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general >response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to >much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically >cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That >said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very >little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, >but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and >miss as going to a witch doctor. >>First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have >>described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, >>IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
"Liam Ness" <work…@the.factory
wrote in message
news:03e42vs8e4a63qdv8sa7naba1tkdf1k822@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I need some help, advice, info pointers or something and I hope someone can steer me the right way. In a nutshell: I sleep about 3.5 to 4.5 hrs a night, feel tired (exhausted) most of the time and have mild mental confusion and irritability. I know my estimates for sleep are correct, because I don’t go to bed until 3 or 4 am and I am up by 7am because of work. I don’t go to bed before then because I dont feel sleepy until then. When I try to go to bed earlier I just lay in bed feeling wide awake. When I do sleep I can stay asleep for 18+ hours on days when I don’t have to work and my wife/kids will let me. As far as I can recall in my entire life, I have never woken up feeling rested. Not in a nutshell: At least since my early teens I have had some trouble sleeping. I would lay in bed for a long time trying to get to sleep. It would take 2-3 hours until I would fall asleep, but then I would sleep the night through until I needed to get up for school. On weekends I would sleep 10-14hrs per night, still taking 2-3 hours to fall asleep, but not getting up until the afternoon. At that time occasionally, I would get fitful sleep waking a number of times through the night and being miserable that I couldn’t get back to sleep until 4 or 5am when I would fall asleep until the 6:30 alarm. This was pretty infrequent and usually around a test or big event. As an adult I continued to have difficulty sleeping, but the pattern changed. Since I have no set bedtime, I just stay up until I feel sleepy. When I do go to bed, I fall asleep pretty much immediately, but I don’t feel sleepy until 3 or 4 am. If I try to go to sleep earlier, I just lay in bed wide awake for hours. As an adult I’ve only had one or two episodes of fitful sleep in the past 15yrs. When I do sleep, I can sleep for as many hours as someone will let me. On an average day, I have to get up by 7am because of work and/or family. On three or four occassions have slept for 30+ hours, and numerous occasions (5 or 6 times a year) for 18+ hours. I almost never remember any of my dreams except when I pull an 18+ hour sleep session. If I wake up during the night to answer natures call or take care of the kids I have no problem getting back to sleep whether I was up for a minute or 20minutes. When I pull an 18+ hour sleep session, I usually will wake up 4-6 times, but I roll over and go right back to sleep. After an an 18+ hour sleep session I go right back to my usual pattern and get sleepy around 3 or 4 am even if I was only up for a few hours. Anytime when I am asleep, I love being asleep and everytime I awaken I crave the chance to go back to sleep, but once I am up for the day I don’t really miss or long for sleep until early morning. I do hate feeling tired most of the time and not feeling mentally sharp. I almost never feel sleepy anytime except in the very early morning, but infrequently I do get an ovewhelming sleepyness in the mid-afternoon. Also I frequently get sleepy while driving the car during the afternoon or evening and have to fight (slap face, bite tounge or cheek, etc.) to stay awake. Even though I don’t get sleepy, I do walk around in a more or less permanent state of moderate to high physical tiredness and mild mental confusion. I’ve tried sominex once, but it made me feel like I was on a bad drug trip and didn’t put me to sleep. I tried flexeril (muscle relaxant) which made me physically exhausted beyond belief for 3-4 hours, but only advanced my sleep to 1:30 am and made it almost impossible to wake up the next morning. I’ve cut out all caffeine and I never really drink alcohol. I tried going to bed early for a couple of weeks, but I just stayed wide awake until 3 or 4 am. I tried to get up earlier, but I am just so sleepy once I go to sleep that I couldn’t do it. I’ve tried meditation, hot showers, not eating after 6pm, eating a moderate meal before trying to sleep, eating a huge meal before trying to sleep to no avail. I did have some moderate success for a while with moderate exercise but I got even less sleep that normal with heavy exercise. I’ve lost 30lbs which stopped my infrequent snoring, but didn’t have any noticable effect on my sleeping. As I have aged, this lack of sleep has really began to take a greater and greater toll on my abilitiy to function. Until recently I haven’t spent much time trying to do anything about my insomnia rather I never really thought about it and just accepted it as part of life. But for the past year and a half as my ability to function has been more and more of a problem, I have become more concerned. Can anyone help me figure out what kind of insomnia causes this kind of problem, and what seems to help people who have this kind of insomnia to function better when awake or to get more sleep? Also, does anyone know if the years of lack of sleep cause an irreversible loss of function, or if I will spring back once I find a "magic" cure?
Medical community likes to call this chronic insomnia. Tough to fix and therapy options depend on what the heck is causing it. Read "Subject: Re: Late Onset Sleep…no cure?" as there was some info on insomnia on there. Always pays to do a http://www.google.com/grphp and use insomnia or Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS) as search words. I would read these: http://www.helioshealth.com/sleep/sleep_01.html Circadian cycles, important to understand. http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.net/dsps/treatment.shtml A must read, explains DSPS and clock adjusters. http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2002/03_02/attarian.htm Sleep apnea. This might be a little advanced for first timers but is good (thanks Lee 
) Doctors are almost useless for chronic insomnia which is actually different than DSPS. With DSPS you should feel rested and fit if you were allowed to sleep your normal sleep cycle (say 4 AM to around Noon, for example). You have built up one hairy sleep debt and would takes possible months of sleeping your "normal: sleep cycle to catch up. You can educate yourself on the clock adjusters like cronotherapy and bright light therapy but you need a doctor to help diagnose possible sleep apnea. Trust me, you can’t dislike doctors as much as I do (just trust me on this) but you probably need a sleep test and you can’t do that yourself. Hope this helps. Give a holler if I can explain any of this better for you. Mike — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 – Release Date: 1/10/2003
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Liam Ness wrote:
All 9 were diplomated. I kind of see your point about the neurologist v. pulmonologist and it makes sense if you buy that a neurologist really has any kind of understanding about sleep and the brain other than voodoo. I’m jaded. I’ve done biomedical research and I know how little is really known, how little is understood, how much experiments are interpreted to foster a particular view point already held by the researcher, the medical community and the funders. If based on my short time researching treatments the choices are limited to medication, behavior modification, mechanical devices, light, surgery and psychobabble, I don’t see how a witch doctor specializing in the brain would be any better than one specializing in the lungs. (of course the 4hr one way travel time to the only diplomated neurologist in maine plays the most substantial part of my view point at this time — oh, yea the horrendous lack of sleep doesn’t help much either) Thank you and everyone else who have taken the time to share your knowledge. I have made an appointment to see the closest diplomated MD at the end of Feburary.
…. who is a ??? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:07:08 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: Here’s how my thoughts ran on choosing a sleep doctor with a particular specialty, in your case the same as mine, a neurologist or a pulmonologist. I connect sleep to the brain, not the lungs <vsg (very small grin). I did not have any kind of airway/breathing problem. So I chose a neurologist sleep doc. After I started on cpap I developed some possible breathing problems associated with my fairly well controlled bronchial-asthma, so I went to a pulmonologist. But I specifically picked one that was not a diplomated sleep doc because I wanted a pulmonologist who spent all his time working on pulmonology. Probably, quite fortunately, his office partner is a diplomated sleep doc; however I’ve never seen him…. and hope I never have to. Since I have 100% coverage for doctors (no prescriptions though) via medicare and Blue Shield, it is difficult for me to ’stronly suggest’ that you pay out of your own pocket, For me it would depend on whether I felt good enough to spend the money anywhere at all. If not, see the neurologist. HTH Liam Ness wrote: Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, or something akin to it. I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking about? I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but not concerned enough) to push them. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: Liam Ness wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician. Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor. First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
All 9 were diplomated. I kind of see your point about the neurologist v. pulmonologist and it makes sense if you buy that a neurologist really has any kind of understanding about sleep and the brain other than voodoo. I’m jaded. I’ve done biomedical research and I know how little is really known, how little is understood, how much experiments are interpreted to foster a particular view point already held by the researcher, the medical community and the funders. If based on my short time researching treatments the a lange sohne replica watches choices are limited to medication, behavior modification, mechanical devices, light, surgery and psychobabble, I don’t see how a witch doctor specializing in the brain would be any better than one specializing in the lungs. (of course the 4hr one way travel time to the only diplomated neurologist in maine plays the most substantial part of my view point at this time — oh, yea the horrendous lack of sleep doesn’t help much either) Thank you and everyone else who have taken the time to share your knowledge. I have made an appointment to see the closest diplomated MD at the end of Feburary. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:07:08 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Here’s how my thoughts ran on choosing a sleep doctor with a particular >specialty, in your case the same as mine, a neurologist or a pulmonologist. >I connect sleep to the brain, not the lungs <vsg> (very small grin). I did not >have any kind of airway/breathing problem. So I chose a neurologist sleep doc. >After I started on cpap I developed some possible breathing problems associated >with my fairly well controlled bronchial-asthma, so I went to a pulmonologist. >But I specifically picked one that was not a diplomated sleep doc because I >wanted a pulmonologist who spent all his time working on pulmonology. >Probably, quite fortunately, his office partner is a diplomated sleep doc; >however I’ve never seen him…. and hope I never have to. >Since I have 100% coverage for doctors (no prescriptions though) via medicare >and Blue Shield, it is difficult for me to ’stronly suggest’ that you pay out of >your own pocket, For me it would depend on whether I felt good enough to spend >the money anywhere at all. If not, see the neurologist. >HTH >Liam Ness wrote: >> Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read >> the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I >> am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is >> worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, >> or something akin to it. >> I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are >> nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology >> (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about >> 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. >> I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the >> neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of >> pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking >> about? >> I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And >> Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were >> primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but >> not concerned enough) to push them. >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>> wrote: >> >Liam Ness wrote: >> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>> >> wrote: >> >> I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family >> >> physician. >> >Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep >> >disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. >> >And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. >> >> At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general >> >> response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to >> >> much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically >> >> cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That >> >> said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very >> >> little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, >> >> but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and >> >> miss as going to a witch doctor. >> >> >First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have >> >> >described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, >> >> >IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
In article <og652v0mo5eo249mf932qn13qnf5pq1…@4ax.com
, Liam Ness
<work…@the.factory
wrote: I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but not concerned enough) to push them.
Oh, I’m most definitely a her. There is one ng member who can verify that. 
And you’re welcome. A sleep study might help by showing what it is that you’re getting or missing sleep-wise. — _Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards…." – Wen Spencer on plotting a novel
Response:
Here’s how my thoughts ran on choosing a sleep doctor with a particular specialty, in your case the same as mine, a neurologist or a pulmonologist. I connect sleep to the brain, not the lungs <vsg
(very small grin). I did not
have any kind of airway/breathing problem. So I chose a neurologist sleep doc. After I started on cpap I developed some possible breathing problems associated with my fairly well controlled bronchial-asthma, so I went to a pulmonologist. But I specifically picked one that was not a diplomated sleep doc because I wanted a pulmonologist who spent all his time working on pulmonology. Probably, quite fortunately, his office partner is a diplomated sleep doc; however I’ve never seen him…. and hope I never have to. Since I have 100% coverage for doctors (no prescriptions though) via medicare and Blue Shield, it is difficult for me to ’stronly suggest’ that you pay out of your own pocket, For me it would depend on whether I felt good enough to spend the money anywhere at all. If not, see the neurologist. HTH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Liam Ness wrote:
Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, or something akin to it. I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking about? I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but not concerned enough) to push them. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: Liam Ness wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician. Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor. First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
Lori&Mike wrote:
"Liam Ness" <work…@the.factory wrote in message news:og652v0mo5eo249mf932qn13qnf5pq1ufn@4ax.com… Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, or something akin to it. That is my unofficial unlicensed guess, you are a classic DSPSer with possible mild sleep apnea. Need to get that checked! Actually, SuperNorm posted the doctor link so I will defer to him on those answers. I’ve been to Pulmonologists and Neurologist Sleep Specilaist and found them both wanting
For the purpose of furthering my knowledge <g
, were either diplomated?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
) Mike I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of pocket to patek philippe 4908 11r replica see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking about? I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but not concerned enough) to push them. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: Liam Ness wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician. Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor. First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 – Release Date: 1/10/2003
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Liam Ness wrote:
I need some help, advice, info pointers or something and I hope someone can steer me the right way. In a nutshell: I sleep about 3.5 to 4.5 hrs a night, feel tired (exhausted) most of the time and have mild mental confusion and irritability. I know my estimates for sleep are correct, because I don’t go to bed until 3 or 4 am and I am up by 7am because of work. I don’t go to bed before then because I dont feel sleepy until then. When I try to go to bed earlier I just lay in bed feeling wide awake. When I do sleep I can stay asleep for 18+ hours on days when I don’t have to work and my wife/kids will let me. As far as I can recall in my entire life, I have never woken up feeling rested. Not in a nutshell: At least since my early teens I have had some trouble sleeping. I would lay in bed for a long time trying to get to sleep. It would take 2-3 hours until I would fall asleep, but then I would sleep the night through until I needed to get up for school. On weekends I would sleep 10-14hrs per night, still taking 2-3 hours to fall asleep, but not getting up until the afternoon. At that time occasionally, I would get fitful sleep waking a number of times through the night and being miserable that I couldn’t get back to sleep until 4 or 5am when I would fall asleep until the 6:30 alarm. This was pretty infrequent and usually around a test or big event. As an adult I continued to have difficulty sleeping, but the pattern changed. Since I have no set bedtime, I just stay up until I feel sleepy. When I do go to bed, I fall asleep pretty much immediately, but I don’t feel sleepy until 3 or 4 am. If I try to go to sleep earlier, I just lay in bed wide awake for hours. As an adult I’ve only had one or two episodes of fitful sleep in the past 15yrs. When I do sleep, I can sleep for as many hours as someone will let me. On an average day, I have to get up by 7am because of work and/or family. On three or four occassions have slept for 30+ hours, and numerous occasions (5 or 6 times a year) for 18+ hours. I almost never remember any of my dreams except when I pull an 18+ hour sleep session. If I wake up during the night to answer natures call or take care of the kids I have no problem getting back to sleep whether I was up for a minute or 20minutes. When I pull an 18+ hour sleep session, I usually will wake up 4-6 times, but I roll over and go right back to sleep. After an an 18+ hour sleep session I go right back to my usual pattern and get sleepy around 3 or 4 am even if I was only up for a few hours. Anytime when I am asleep, I love being asleep and everytime I awaken I crave the chance to go back to sleep, but once I am up for the day I don’t really miss or long for sleep until early morning. I do hate feeling tired most of the time and not feeling mentally sharp. I almost never feel sleepy anytime except in the very early morning, but infrequently I do get an ovewhelming sleepyness in the mid-afternoon. Also I frequently get sleepy while driving the car during the afternoon or evening and have to fight (slap face, bite tounge or cheek, etc.) to stay awake. Even though I don’t get sleepy, I do walk around in a more or less permanent state of moderate to high physical tiredness and mild mental confusion. I’ve tried sominex once, but it made me feel like I was on a bad drug trip and didn’t put me to sleep. I tried flexeril (muscle relaxant) which made me physically exhausted beyond belief for 3-4 hours, but only advanced my sleep to 1:30 am and made it almost impossible to wake up the next morning. I’ve cut out all caffeine and I never really drink alcohol. I tried going to bed early for a couple of weeks, but I just stayed wide awake until 3 or 4 am. I tried to get up earlier, but I am just so sleepy once I go to sleep that I couldn’t do it. I’ve tried meditation, hot showers, not eating after 6pm, eating a moderate meal before trying to sleep, eating a huge meal before trying to sleep to no avail. I did have some moderate success for a while with moderate exercise but I got even less sleep that normal with heavy exercise. I’ve lost 30lbs which stopped my infrequent snoring, but didn’t have any noticable effect on my sleeping. As I have aged, this lack of sleep has really began to take a greater and greater toll on my abilitiy to function. Until recently I haven’t spent much time trying to do anything about my insomnia rather I never really thought about it and just accepted it as part of life. But for the past year and a half as my ability to function has been more and more of a problem, I have become more concerned. Can anyone help me figure out what kind of insomnia causes this kind of problem, and what seems to help people who have this kind of insomnia to function better when awake or to get more sleep? Also, does anyone know if the years of lack of sleep cause an irreversible loss of function, or if I will spring back once I find a "magic" cure?
You give a lot of detail, but none regarding medical diagnosis/treatment. You need to get to a doctor and have a sleep study done to try to get at the root of your problem. You seem to be treating symptoms, not causes. Regards Lee in Toronto —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
"Liam Ness" <work…@the.factory
wrote in message
news:og652v0mo5eo249mf932qn13qnf5pq1ufn@4ax.com…
Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, or something akin to it.
That is my unofficial unlicensed guess, you are a classic DSPSer with possible mild sleep apnea. Need to get that checked! Actually, SuperNorm posted the doctor link so I will defer to him on those answers. I’ve been to Pulmonologists and Neurologist Sleep Specilaist and found them both wanting ) Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. I have two questions re the Significantly more doctors. 1. how big a difference is the neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking about? I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but not concerned enough) to push them. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: Liam Ness wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician. Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor. First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you
have
described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 – Release Date: 1/10/2003
Response:
Thanks for getting back to me a second time in one night! I have read the material that Mike pointed me to ( except the google stuff which I am working on ). I found it pretty interesting and for what it is worth with only one night’s research, it does seem that I have DSPS, or something akin to it. I also checked out the ABSM site that he hyperlinked, and there are nine doctors listed for my state. Eight are listed as Pulmonology (only six are M.D.’s) and one as Neurology. The Neurologist is about 4hrs away and not covered by my insurance. I have two questions re the doctors. 1. how big a difference is the neurology vs. pulmonology distinction? 2. If I have to go out of pocket to see the neurologist, what kind of money are we talking about? I also want to thank Deirdre Saoirse Moen for her(?) reply. And Deirdre, no I have not had a sleep study since my prior Doc’s were primarily focused on my work schedule, and I was too exhausted (but not concerned enough) to push them. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:18:33 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Liam Ness wrote: >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com
>> wrote: >> I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family >> physician. >Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep >disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. >And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. >> At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general >> response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to >> much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically >> cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That >> said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very >> little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, >> but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and >> miss as going to a witch doctor. >> >First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have >> >described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, >> >IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
Liam Ness wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician.
Most of us here have not had much luck with these three ’specialties’ for sleep disorders. Once again, try to find a neurologist who is a certified sleep doc. And, read closely what Mike suggests. He’s still fighting the battle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor. First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm
Response:
In article <jvl42vsiaa9uqq936c584r8itpi5mk1…@4ax.com
, Liam Ness
<work…@the.factory
wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:56:48 GMT, NormC <no…@socal.nospam.com wrote: I’ve discussed it with 3 doctors; an internist, a gp and a family physician. At the time I was working 85 -100hrs a week and the general response was something like "of course you are exhausted, you work to much", totally ignoring the sleeping issue. I have since radically cut back on my work schedule, but the problem remains the same. That said, nuless it is nuts and buts mainstream medicine, I put very little faith in the art of medicine. What they know, they know well, but everything on the edges of their understanding is as much hit and miss as going to a witch doctor.
Have you actually had a sleep study? Because that gives a doc hard numbers. — _Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Ideally pacing should look like the stock market for the year 1999, up and up and up, but with lots of little dips downwards…." – Wen Spencer on plotting a novel
Response:
Good, glad the links helped! Lots of reading for sure. Yeah, I used to be at the distrust stage a few years back. Wait until you see a dozen or more doctors trying to get something resolved (migrates into dislike ) Anyway, sleep diary is a good idea for a start except not that lame one. Use this one http://www.sleepfoundation.org/publications/diary.html You fill one out when you get up in the morning after sleep. Then you do a different one at the end of the day. Comparison of the two tries to see if something during the day messed up that night’s sleep. Mike. "Liam Ness" <work…@the.factory
wrote in message
news:b4p42vc0tp88838lc573bi04hmee2lhlk0@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Thanks for getting back to me. I’ve checked out your links and I think I will try a sleep diary for the next two weeks to get a more "objective" handle on my habits. I’m doing the google search as well. Just to make it clear, I don’t dislike doctors. I just don’t put faith in the art aspect of their profession. I generally do trust the science aspect, but in many areas, such as sleep, there is precious little hard science. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:31:10 -0600, "Lori&Mike" <mpow…@nospamthe-beach.net wrote: Medical community likes to call this chronic insomnia. Tough to fix and therapy options depend on what the heck is causing it. Read "Subject: Re: Late Onset Sleep…no cure?" as there was some info on insomnia on there. Always pays to
do a
http://www.google.com/grphp and use insomnia or Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS) as search words. I would read these: http://www.helioshealth.com/sleep/sleep_01.html Circadian cycles, important to understand. http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.net/dsps/treatment.shtml A must read, explains DSPS and clock adjusters. http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2002/03_02/attarian.htm Sleep apnea. This
might
be a little advanced for first timers but is good (thanks Lee ) Doctors are almost useless for chronic insomnia which is actually different
than
DSPS. With DSPS you should feel rested and fit if you were allowed to sleep
your
normal sleep cycle (say 4 AM to around Noon, for example). You have built up
one
hairy sleep debt and would takes possible months of sleeping your "normal:
sleep
cycle to catch up. You can educate yourself on the clock adjusters like cronotherapy and bright light therapy but you need a doctor to help diagnose possible sleep apnea. Trust me, you can’t dislike doctors as much as I do (just trust me on this) but you probably need a sleep test and you can’t do that yourself. Hope this helps. Give a holler if I can explain any of this better
for
you. Mike — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 – Release Date: 1/10/2003
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 – Release Date: 1/10/2003
Response:
Thanks for getting back to me. I’ve checked out your links and I think I will try a sleep diary for the next two weeks to get a more "objective" handle on my habits. I’m doing the Extra google search as well. Just to make it clear, I don’t dislike doctors. I just don’t put faith in the art aspect of their profession. I generally do trust the science aspect, but in many areas, such as sleep, there is precious little hard science. On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 01:31:10 -0600, "Lori&Mike" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<mpow…@nospamthe-beach.net
wrote: Medical community likes to call this chronic insomnia. Tough to fix and therapy options depend on what the heck is causing it. Read "Subject: Re: Late Onset Sleep…no cure?" as there was some info on insomnia on there. Always pays to do a http://www.google.com/grphp and use insomnia or Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS) as search words. I would read these: http://www.helioshealth.com/sleep/sleep_01.html Circadian cycles, important to understand. http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.net/dsps/treatment.shtml A must read, explains DSPS and clock adjusters. http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2002/03_02/attarian.htm Sleep apnea. This might be a little advanced for first timers but is good (thanks Lee ) Doctors are almost useless for chronic insomnia which is actually different than DSPS. With DSPS you should feel rested and fit if you were allowed to sleep your normal sleep cycle (say 4 AM to around Noon, for example). You have built up one hairy sleep debt and would takes possible months of sleeping your "normal: sleep cycle to catch up. You can educate yourself on the clock adjusters like cronotherapy and bright light therapy but you need a doctor to help diagnose possible sleep apnea. Trust me, you can’t dislike doctors as much as I do (just trust me on this) but you probably need a sleep test and you can’t do that yourself. Hope this helps. Give a holler if I can explain any of this better for you. Mike — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 – Release Date: 1/10/2003
Response:
First things first. Have you seen a doctor, at any time, about what you have described? If not, why don’t you find a certified sleep doc in your area, IMNSHO a neurologist. See http://www.absm.org/Diplomates/listing.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Liam Ness wrote:
I need some help, advice, info pointers or something and I hope someone can steer me the right way. In a nutshell: I sleep about 3.5 to 4.5 hrs a night, feel tired (exhausted) most of the time and have mild mental confusion and irritability. I know my estimates for sleep are correct, because I don’t go to bed until 3 or 4 am and I am up by 7am because of work. I don’t go to bed before then because I dont feel sleepy until then. When I try to go to bed earlier I just lay in bed feeling wide awake. When I do sleep I can stay asleep for 18+ hours on days when I don’t have to work and my wife/kids will let me. As far as I can recall in my entire life, I have never woken up feeling rested. Not in a nutshell: At least since my early teens I have had some trouble sleeping. I would lay in bed for a long time trying to get to sleep. It would take 2-3 hours until I would fall asleep, but then I would sleep the night through until I needed to get up for school. On weekends I would sleep 10-14hrs per night, still taking 2-3 hours to fall asleep, but not getting up until the afternoon. At that time occasionally, I would get fitful sleep waking a number of times through the night and being miserable that I couldn’t get back to sleep until 4 or 5am when I would fall asleep until the 6:30 alarm. This was pretty infrequent and usually around a test or big event. As an adult I continued to have difficulty sleeping, but the pattern changed. Since I have no set bedtime, I just stay up until I feel sleepy. When I do go to bed, I fall asleep pretty much immediately, but I don’t feel sleepy until 3 or 4 am. If I try to go to sleep earlier, I just lay in bed wide awake for hours. As an adult I’ve only had one or two episodes of fitful sleep in the past 15yrs. When I do sleep, I can sleep for as many hours as someone will let me. On an average day, I have to get up by 7am because of work and/or family. On three or four occassions have slept for 30+ hours, and numerous occasions (5 or 6 times a year) for 18+ hours. I almost never remember any of my dreams except when I pull an 18+ hour sleep session. If I wake up during the night to answer natures call or take care of the kids I have no problem getting back to sleep whether I was up for a minute or 20minutes. When I pull an 18+ hour sleep session, I usually will wake up 4-6 times, but I roll over and go right back to sleep. After an an 18+ hour sleep session I go right back to my usual pattern and get sleepy around 3 or 4 am even if I was only up for a few hours. Anytime when I am asleep, I love being asleep and everytime I awaken I crave the chance to go back to sleep, but once I am up for the day I don’t really miss or long for sleep until early morning. I do hate feeling tired most of the time and not feeling mentally sharp. I almost never feel sleepy anytime except in the very early morning, but infrequently I do get an ovewhelming sleepyness in the mid-afternoon. Also I frequently get sleepy while driving the car during the afternoon or evening and have to fight (slap face, bite tounge or cheek, etc.) to stay awake. Even though I don’t get sleepy, I do walk around in a more or less permanent state of moderate to high physical tiredness and mild mental confusion. I’ve tried sominex once, but it made me feel like I was on a bad drug trip and didn’t put me to sleep. I tried flexeril (muscle relaxant) which made me physically exhausted beyond belief for 3-4 hours, but only advanced my sleep to 1:30 am and made it almost impossible to wake up the next morning. I’ve cut out all caffeine and I never really drink alcohol. I tried going to bed early for a couple of weeks, but I just stayed wide awake until 3 or 4 am. I tried to get up earlier, but I am just so sleepy once I go to sleep that I couldn’t do it. I’ve tried meditation, hot showers, not eating after 6pm, eating a moderate meal before trying to sleep, eating a huge meal before trying to sleep to no avail. I did have some moderate success for a while with moderate exercise but I got even less sleep that normal with heavy exercise. I’ve lost 30lbs which stopped my infrequent snoring, but didn’t have any noticable effect on my sleeping. As I have aged, this lack of sleep has really began to take a greater and greater toll on my abilitiy to function. Until recently I haven’t spent much time trying to do anything about my insomnia rather I never really thought about it and just accepted it as part of life. But for the past year and a half as my ability to function has been more and more of a problem, I have become more concerned. Can anyone help me figure out what kind of insomnia causes this kind of problem, and what seems to help people who have this kind of insomnia to function better when awake or to get more sleep? Also, does anyone know if the years of lack of sleep cause an irreversible loss of function, or if I will spring back once I find a "magic" cure?
Response:
I need some help, advice, info pointers or something and I hope someone can steer me the right way. In a nutshell: I sleep about 3.5 to 4.5 hrs a night, feel tired (exhausted) most of the time and have mild mental confusion and irritability. I know my estimates for sleep are correct, because I don’t go to bed until 3 or 4 am and I am up by 7am because of work. I don’t go to bed before then because I dont feel sleepy until then. When I try to go to bed earlier I just lay in bed feeling wide awake. When I do sleep I can stay asleep for 18+ hours on days when I don’t have to work and my wife/kids will let me. As far as I can recall in my entire life, I have never woken up feeling rested. Not in a nutshell: At least since my early teens I have had some trouble sleeping. I would lay in bed for a long time trying to get to sleep. It would take 2-3 hours until I would fall asleep, but then I would sleep the night through until I needed to get up for school. On weekends I would sleep 10-14hrs per night, still taking 2-3 hours to fall asleep, but not getting up until the afternoon. At that time occasionally, I would get fitful sleep waking a number of times through the night and being miserable that I couldn’t get back to sleep until 4 or 5am when I would fall asleep until the 6:30 alarm. This was pretty infrequent and usually around a test or big event. As an adult I continued to have difficulty sleeping, but the pattern changed. Since I have no set bedtime, I just stay up until I feel sleepy. When I do go to bed, I fall asleep pretty much immediately, but I don’t feel sleepy until 3 or 4 am. If I try to go to sleep earlier, I just lay in bed wide awake for hours. As an adult I’ve only had one or two episodes of fitful sleep in the past 15yrs. When I do sleep, I can sleep for as many hours as someone will let me. On an average day, I have to get up by 7am because of work and/or family. On three or four occassions have slept for 30+ hours, and numerous occasions (5 or 6 times a year) for 18+ hours. I almost never remember any of my dreams except when I pull an 18+ hour sleep session. If I wake up during the night to answer natures call or take care of the kids I have no problem getting back to sleep whether I was up for a minute or 20minutes. When I pull an 18+ hour sleep session, I usually will wake up 4-6 times, but I roll over and go right back to sleep. After an an 18+ hour sleep session I go right back to my usual pattern and get sleepy around 3 or 4 am even if I was only up for a few hours. Anytime when I am asleep, I love being asleep and everytime I awaken I crave the chance to go back to sleep, but once I am up for the day I don’t really miss or long for sleep until early morning. I do hate feeling tired most of the time and not feeling mentally sharp. I almost never feel sleepy anytime except in the very early morning, but infrequently I do get an ovewhelming sleepyness in the mid-afternoon. Also I frequently get sleepy while driving the car during the afternoon or evening and have to fight (slap face, bite tounge or cheek, etc.) to stay awake. Even though I don’t get sleepy, I do walk around in a more or less permanent state of moderate to high physical tiredness and mild mental confusion. I’ve tried sominex once, but it made me feel like I was on a bad drug trip and didn’t put me to sleep. I tried flexeril (muscle relaxant) which made me physically exhausted beyond belief for 3-4 hours, but only advanced my sleep to 1:30 am and made it almost impossible to wake up the next morning. I’ve cut out all caffeine and I never really drink alcohol. I tried going to bed early for a couple of weeks, but I just stayed wide awake until 3 or 4 am. I tried to get up earlier, but I am just so sleepy once I go to sleep that I couldn’t do it. I’ve tried meditation, hot showers, not eating after 6pm, eating a moderate meal before trying to sleep, eating a huge meal before trying to sleep to no avail. I did have some moderate success for a while with moderate exercise but I got even less sleep that normal with heavy exercise. I’ve lost 30lbs which stopped my infrequent snoring, but didn’t have any noticable effect on my sleeping. As I have aged, this lack of sleep has really began to take a greater and greater toll on my abilitiy to function. Until recently I haven’t spent much time trying to do anything about my insomnia rather I never really thought about it and just accepted it as part of life. But for the past year and a half as my ability to function has been more and more of a problem, I have become more concerned. Can anyone help me figure out what kind of insomnia causes this kind of problem, and what seems to help people who have this kind of insomnia to function better when awake or to get more sleep? Also, does anyone know if the years of lack of sleep cause an irreversible loss of function, or if I will spring back once I find a "magic" cure?
Response:
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I was explaining my symptoms to my mom just yesterday and she said it sounds more like I have the flu (noooooooooo!!!). This morning I took an extra steamy shower to help break things up – gross, gross, gross. Thanks for listening to my rant, Jasmine 
) Best— Ron – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"bob" <rjmye…@gte.net